Spaceman's alternative to "pc speakers"

spaceman

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THIS IS WHAT I WOULD GET WITH MY $$ FOR 2.1. NOT SAYING I AM RIGHT. YES I HAVE HEARD THESE. CONSTRUCTIVE POSTS HELPFUL. BE NICE FOR ONCE.

What speakers should I get Klipsch or Logitech?

Man this ? is asked a lot!

Truth be told, you can do better. The problem is which alternative setup is better and the same price? The M10 for $82 is the best deal period for some good, cheap sound. If you can handle the issues it has with the desktop only placement and not great bass impact that is. You add a sub later and feed it with your sound card, the M10 or M12(newer version but really ugly lol) is a great front stage.

So far, this is about the best I can find for around $200. Feel free to chime in on what you use. If you have these please let us know more about them. I chose the monitors based on their flexibility and decent sq for the $$ but remember there is always better for more $$.

First, there are some issues with a few of the units. It appears that most of the problems are apparent right out of the box so simply return and repeat. They have been out since 2005 and I have not seen or heard of any failures due to a specific defect after the warranty expires. I want to get that out of the way. Not going to say get this and have people pissed off lol. Plus the slightly more expensive and powerful version is what I would get. Just selected the one I did to keep under $200. Both units, with a sub, will do nicely. M-Audio is another great, inexpensive option.

These have built in amps AND a better dac than the logitech. Klipsch has a dac but only for 5.1 right? Anyway, they have optical and coax digital inputs! You need to run a separate mini to rca to the sub. This setup was made to work like the Klipsch but is even better.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMS20

Some interior shots. No reviews really other than that they sound great with good recordings and bad with bad. Compressed mp3 music will sound bad sorry. There are alternate speakers like the M-audio series which make everything sound good but these are more accurate. I feel that is vital for the gaming and movie aspects of pc audio so prefer these. You want to hear the damn footsteps right?

http://minirig.org.au/2008/02/11/in...o-near-field-monitor-reviewed-and-dismantled/

For bass? Well this will crunch better than the 5500 or Promedia sub. I will promise that.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-631

Again, not saying anything except here is a great alternative. You can trust the sites and the products. Both are well respected by online buyers. I know that you can't see and touch them but trust me they sound better.
 

Mr. Wolf

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+1 for Spaceman's suggestion.

If you're set on a 2.1 speaker setup, regardless of why or what anyone thinks, then this combo is terrific... yes, far superior even to the Klipsch Promedias I've recommended several times.
 

Jonathan

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I assume you guys own or have some experience with them correct?

I ask because I might give those products a try.
 

Joe Average

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... but trust me they sound better.

I know you're just trying to make a pre-emptive strike for the future concerning people asking for "PC speaker" suggestions, and while I might agree with the given choices you posted, you go entirely too far by saying "but trust me they sound better."

You can give advice, and make suggestions, but when you cross that line and say "but trust me they sound better" what you really should be saying is "I have used them, and while you'll find many favorable reviews, I personally think they sound better than..." and go from there.

Saying "but trust me they sound better" needs to be clarified to say "but trust me, I think they sound better than..." and name the said competition you'd be comparing them to.

I'm not trying to stir up shit, and I agree with you on many points in many threads even if you don't realize it, but that "but trust me they sound better" is where I gotta draw the line. Your ears aren't the same as anyone else's, so even if you threw 10,000 favorable reviews that were exact dupes of your own opinion and verifiably from 10,000 other people, I'd still call you out when you say "but trust me they sound better."

What sounds better to you might sound like absolute shit to me. Does that mean mine are worse or yours are better? Of course not, and therein lies the problem. Each person has to audition the hardware and make up their own minds with their own ears.

The proper advice/suggestion is:

"but trust me, I think they sound better."

With that you're covered... it states your opinion which is what people care about, not some opinion you're pawning off as absolute fact especially with audio hardware because no matter what the specs are on paper, it's the real world that matters and how our ears perceive the representation and reproduction capabilities of the given hardware being recommended.

Hope this makes sense...
 

TOOL1075

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What speakers should I get Klipsch or Logitech?

Man this ? is asked a lot!

Truth be told, you can do better. The problem is which alternative setup is better and the same price? The swan m10 is damn hard to find and does not really have a powerful enough sub for HT and gaming use. Good sound though but yeah.

So far, this is about the best I can find for around $200. Feel free to chime in on what you use.

These have built in amps AND a better dac than the logitech. Klipsch has a dac but only for 5.1 right? Anyway,

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHMS20

For bass? Well this will crunch better than the 5500 or Promedia sub. I will promise that.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-631

Again, not saying anything except here is a great alternative. You can trust the sites and the products. Both are well respected by online buyers. I know that you can't see and touch them but trust me they sound better.

I have a question for you. (I'm not in need of these products, but the monitors intrigue me)

I was wondering, how you would connect that setup. Let's say you had digital out from your sound card. Great, the monitors have digital inputs, and analog inputs, so you're good either way. But, the sub needs an analog input- so no digital to the sub, right? Or, am I missing something obvious here.

thanks
 

Riddlinkidstoner

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The amp would be connected of one of these four things:

1) Optical
2) Digital Coax
3) USB
4) 2.5mm to RCA

I didn't bother clicking the links so I can't tell you which is what.

As far as spacemans post, audio is completely subjective. However, considering the build quality and cost of the listed components vs their competitors which crappy sat speakers, in theory they should sound better.

Strictly opinion of course.
 

Mr. Wolf

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I know you're just trying to make a pre-emptive strike for the future concerning people asking for "PC speaker" suggestions, and while I might agree with the given choices you posted, you go entirely too far by saying "but trust me they sound better."

You can give advice, and make suggestions, but when you cross that line and say "but trust me they sound better" what you really should be saying is "I have used them, and while you'll find many favorable reviews, I personally think they sound better than..." and go from there.

Saying "but trust me they sound better" needs to be clarified to say "but trust me, I think they sound better than..." and name the said competition you'd be comparing them to.

I'm not trying to stir up shit, and I agree with you on many points in many threads even if you don't realize it, but that "but trust me they sound better" is where I gotta draw the line. Your ears aren't the same as anyone else's, so even if you threw 10,000 favorable reviews that were exact dupes of your own opinion and verifiably from 10,000 other people, I'd still call you out when you say "but trust me they sound better."

What sounds better to you might sound like absolute shit to me. Does that mean mine are worse or yours are better? Of course not, and therein lies the problem. Each person has to audition the hardware and make up their own minds with their own ears.

The proper advice/suggestion is:

"but trust me, I think they sound better."

With that you're covered... it states your opinion which is what people care about, not some opinion you're pawning off as absolute fact especially with audio hardware because no matter what the specs are on paper, it's the real world that matters and how our ears perceive the representation and reproduction capabilities of the given hardware being recommended.

Hope this makes sense...
Joe, you're too impressed with yourself. :rolleyes:
 

s10010001

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Thanks for the input, I will be in the market for some nice 2.1s one day im sure. I booked marked this thread.

(prolly not need ot sub as I live in a apartment... lol, don't want to bug my neighbors.
 

Joe Average

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Joe, you're too impressed with yourself. :rolleyes:

Ooooo... the dreaded rolling eyes...

I'm just making a point that one person's opinion cannot be justified as absolute fact, most especially where audio equipment is concerned.

Deal with it.
 

Jonathan

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I'm not sure how I would connect the digital monitors. I have a gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H with an Optical S/PDIF Out Connector, and four speaker out jacks. My ignorance is shining here :D
 

Mr. Wolf

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Ooooo... the dreaded rolling eyes...

I'm just making a point that one person's opinion cannot be justified as absolute fact, most especially where audio equipment is concerned.

Deal with it.
Thank you for proving my point.
 

spaceman

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Joe, yes.

I have had every Klipsch pc speaker. 5.1, 2.1, 4.1. Logitech 5500, 2300.

You also need to take a deep breathe and read my post. This is just an alternative to the norm and what I would buy. NOT SAYING I KNOW EVERYTHING DUDE.

Sorry, even my patience is getting worn thin lately.

I have heard the slightly larger version of the monitors and the 10" version of the sub.

They sound better and will to 95% of the folks out there. I have to assume 5% have serious hearing issues.

You should know that I would not say trust me unless I have tried the products.

Just my take on what I would buy with $200. That is all.

Audio is subjective yep.
 

spaceman

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Thanks for the input, I will be in the market for some nice 2.1s one day im sure. I booked marked this thread.

(prolly not need ot sub as I live in a apartment... lol, don't want to bug my neighbors.

Get the larger versions then. The bass will still be polite but with the little ones I listed, the bass would be weak without the sub.
 

dj_taboo

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Nice speakers! Behringers are known to be cost effective yet sound great at the same time. NewEgg has em, but shipping kills it compared to the store the OP posted. Just wondering though...any outputs on these?
 

spaceman

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I'll find out about the power of the headphone out. I tried it with some jvc iems that I carry around and it was clean sounding but have no idea how strong it is. Strong enough for most but the headphones which commonly need and amp I would say probably not.

Ok. Download the docs on the left hand side of the web page on this one for more info but here is what I can tell you and why these rock for the $$.

They have optical and coax digital inputs! Analogue inputs AND output so you can use them as a Pre-amp for the sub. This setup was made to work like the Klipsch but is even better and more flexible.
 

spaceman

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After looking and reading every review/spec sheet I could find.

No way would I use anything but easy to drive headphones with these. If you want to use some Sennheiser 650s with these you are not going to hear anything.

AT 700, Koss SB40 etc. If you can drive them from a sound card then it should be ok.
 

JC634

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I went to a HT receiver and REAL speakers some time ago. Are they best? Hell, no! But to paraphrase spaceman: "trust me they sound better" than any Logitech ever made!

:p
 

fss69

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No need to bash Joe. I think he's right about the style spaceman goes about giving advice. Even if spaceman himself doesn't believe that everything he says is absolutely right, he does give a know-it-all vibe in his replies. There's barely ever a "why" when he's promoting a product, just "listen to me - buy this" - end of story. Not bashing, just saying from my standpoint whenever I read an audio advice thread he appears. I was going to bring this up before, but always figured it wasn't worth getting into :p.
 

skatiN64

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klipsch amp doesn't have a dac either (at least the 5.1 bash doesn't)
decent piece of hardware though
running some larger infinitys for the stereo portion
 

Jonathan

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Not sure if you read his post correctly sapceman, but the question from skatin64 was would you prefer the 40w behringers or the 40w m-audio's...


thenerds.net have the MS40's for 110 plus 10 shipping..
 

spaceman

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Oh lol

The M-Audios are different. They will make everything sound "good."

The quotes are b/c "good" does not mean accurate. You lose detail with them but compressed mp3s will sound better.

However, I picked the behringers b/c they can act as a pre-amp and easily daisy-chain into a larger system. Remember, this is a sub $200 system so I had to pick something that was flexible. They are not necessarily the best sounding speakers but are the best value at their price point.
 

chineseman

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How are the Audioengine 2's compared to these Behringers? I've read a lot of rave reviews on the A2s.
 

spaceman

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How are the Audioengine 2's compared to these Behringers? I've read a lot of rave reviews on the A2s.

They are better speakers but do not have the options that the Behringers do.

See, the Behringer acts like a receiver and speakers. That is why I chose it to work with a subwoofer. For the same $$ you get the Behringers + an 8" 150? watt subwoofer.

See?
 

chineseman

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Errr I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff. I have no idea what a receiver does. Am I correct to assume both the Berhingers and the Audioengines only come with the speakers and I'd have to pair it up with a subwoofer? If I plan to use my Audigy X-Fi I'd have to buy either a) Berhinger MS20 + Subwoofer or b) Audioengine A2 + Subwoofer + Receiver? Or does a receiver effectively replace your soundcard as the source?
 

Joe Average

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Receiver = typically what you'd call the device that does it all, the "Big Kahuna" in an audio system these days. Amplifier, pre-amp, speaker selector, radio tuner, audio/video processor, DSP (digital signal processor), Dolby Digital or DTS and THX decoder(s), all sorts of bells and whistles. The usual central management point of your entire audio/video system.

The problems come from people wanting speaker recommendations and getting all sorts of additional equipment being thrown into the mix. Most people - that's a broad generalization for a reason - when asking for PC speaker recommendations want some god damned PC speaker recommendations, not home theater or high end audio video or even top notch or upper crust or top shelf recommendations and a bunch of equipment they'd generally prefer not to have to read a manual to comprehend and set up.

PC speakers = amplified, typically a 2.0 (2 speakers) or a 2.1 (2 speakers and a discrete sub) or even 5.1 (4 speakers, a center channel speaker, and a discrete sub) that work with the utmost simplicity and a cable or two to connect them to the PC and that's that.

If you put your average Joe (not me, I assure you) in front of a modern day receiver and several sets of speakers, a ball or big pile of wires, cables, etc, and toss him the remote and the manual, he'll go out of his mind trying to comprehend it all and how it should connect, wiring diagrams be damned.

PC speakers is a relatively easy to understand concept, it truly is.
 

Cyrilix

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Errr I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff. I have no idea what a receiver does. Am I correct to assume both the Berhingers and the Audioengines only come with the speakers and I'd have to pair it up with a subwoofer? If I plan to use my Audigy X-Fi I'd have to buy either a) Berhinger MS20 + Subwoofer or b) Audioengine A2 + Subwoofer + Receiver? Or does a receiver effectively replace your soundcard as the source?

With speaker audio, you have 3 main components for a working setup:

-DAC (takes a digital input)
-Amplifier (takes an analog input)
-Speakers (takes an amplified analog input)

The receiver is at a minimum, an amplifier, although many receivers have internal DACs as well, so depending on what you want the receiver to do, you can pass it either a digital input or an analog input. In fact, you can even pass it an amplified analog input, but, I won't get into that.

Different people have different definitions of source. For some, it means the DAC. For some, it means the files on your hard drive (which come before the DAC), but aren't considered "equipment", despite it theoretically being the "source". If you have an external DAC, such as one in a receiver, you still need some way of transmitting a digital signal from your computer to the external DAC, so a soundcard typically fits the bill.
 

chineseman

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PC speakers is a relatively easy to understand concept, it truly is.

Yea, I'm just trying to figure out what I'll need if I upgrade to the MS20s or the A2s. I'm still using the Klipsch Promedia 2.1s I bought many years back and was thinking of upgrading. PC speakers are just plug and play, I just don't know if I'll need anything more by switching to bookshelf speakers, etc. If I buy one of these speakers all I need to do is just hook them up directly to my Audigy X-Fi? Or would I need to buy a sub or an amp to power the speakers and route them all into a receiver in order for it to work?
i.e. sound card -> receiver <- speakers and subs
 

Coreyk78

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I can personally recommend the M-Audio AV40's, I just got my new set today and they really sound great, I like them better than my Klipsch Promedia 5.1 setup I used to have. I'm going to be adding an 8" sub to them later, likely the 8" Dayton that Spaceman linked to because that seems to be a really nice price. Bass is pretty decent though even without the sub, enough to shake the walls and my desk when they are turned up a little over half way.
 

spaceman

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both ms20s and a2s just hook up to your sound card yes.

the ms20s can be used with a digital source like a cd player too.

If I were you I would just get the A2s and a 1/8th to rca cable. You could use your klipsch sub until you want to upgrade.

Oh and thanks for the other helpful posts btw. appreciate it. more helpin an less hurtin? dunno, tired lol
 

Joe Average

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As already mentioned, you'll need to define how you want the signal path to work: do you want to keep things in the digital domain as long as possible, or does using simple analog cables and interconnects work for you as well? Personally, after having dealt with this kind of hardware for close to 30 years now, I don't give a flying crap about what people say when it comes to analog vs digital. If you build a solid system, there isn't going to be much difference between using the digital output from the source or the analog.

Our human ears simply cannot be that precise, period. The biggest benefit to pure digital is there's roughly no chance of crossover or serious signal degradation which can happen with extreme connects/cable runs (meaning length). And no, paying $100 for a 6 foot piece of RCA-type cabling won't make a difference compared to the same cable that costs $5 from Radio Shack or even Walmart. This stuff is myth, all of it. Technically, on paper, and to the 15th decimal point there can be a measurable difference but not to our actual analog ears, sorry.

If you want to get everything set up, you decide on what you want first: how many speakers total, what you plan to use as the source (simple stereo output from the PC, multiple outs from a 5.1/7.1 sound card, etc), then work on handling the source material based on how many outputs you're going to require.

If you grabbed the M-Audios or the Behringers they're powered, just like the Promedias, so they just need an input, and from what I can tell the M-Audios are analog input only; the Behringers offer analog or digital inputs. Some would argue the more inputs the better, so whatever. Analog is fine for me, probably always will be.

Let's face it: regardless of what hardware you've got, until the day when we can jack out brains into a real digital output and keep it purely in the digital domain from start to finish, we're still in an analog world. Speakers are analog, our ears are analog.

I think that's a good enough match.
 

Cyrilix

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I just don't know if I'll need anything more by switching to bookshelf speakers, etc. If I buy one of these speakers all I need to do is just hook them up directly to my Audigy X-Fi? Or would I need to buy a sub or an amp to power the speakers and route them all into a receiver in order for it to work?
i.e. sound card -> receiver <- speakers and subs

If you buy bookshelves, you will (generally) not be able to hook them up directly to a sound card. There are two things to address in your post.

#1 - You don't have to buy a sub, for things to work. Bookshelves will play without a sub, but a sub can be nice to have. I've been on my Insignias without a sub for a while (although that is about to change soon). Personally, no sub is better than a bad sub.

#2 - If you buy bookshelves, you will need some kind of amp. A receiver is typically recommended because receivers are generally lower cost and pretty simple to use, with manuals and all. What you have to do is find the analog or digital input on your receiver, and have a cable running from your PC to that input. Then, find the speaker outputs of your receiver, which will typically be a pair of banana jacks for each channel that allow you to simply use raw wire, or a banana jack connector. Then, just connect those to your speakers.
 

Le037

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There's something I don't get. When you buy a sound card such as the ASUS Xonar, isn't that a receiver?
 

Cyrilix

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There's something I don't get. When you buy a sound card such as the ASUS Xonar, isn't that a receiver?

Why would it be? Is there something special about this card that I don't know about? Can it receive and separate radio signals or something?
 

Le037

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Why would it be? Is there something special about this card that I don't know about? Can it receive and separate radio signals or something?

I'm a noob that doesn't know what a receiver is. If it's just what gets the signal and sends it to the speakers then doesn't a sound card do that?

Btw this has nothing to do but are the JBL Spyro 2.1 speakers any good?
 

Joe Average

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I'm not looking to get flamed here sooo... I'm just posting this link so people can do a quick peek and begin to understand the difference between amps, receivers, pre-amps, and other items typically related to home audio/video systems (with some bleed-over towards the PC sound spectrum as well):

http://www.crutchfield.com/m_10400/Receivers-Amps-Tuners.html?tp=33

Just the basic descriptions right there on that one page alone should be enough for most people to grasp the concepts of the different pieces of hardware.
 
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