Spaceman's alternative to "pc speakers"

Joe Average said:
I'm not looking to get flamed here sooo... I'm just posting this link so people can do a quick peek and begin to understand the difference between amps, receivers, pre-amps, and other items typically related to home audio/video systems (with some bleed-over towards the PC sound spectrum as well):

http://www.crutchfield.com/m_10400/Receivers-Amps-Tuners.html?tp=33

Just the basic descriptions right there on that one page alone should be enough for most people to grasp the concepts of the different pieces of hardware.
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Thanks man nice link.
 
Le037 said:
I'm a noob that doesn't know what a receiver is. If it's just what gets the signal and sends it to the speakers then doesn't a sound card do that?

Btw this has nothing to do but are the JBL Spyro 2.1 speakers any good?
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The link that Joe Average provided is pretty much spot-on when it comes to modern day receivers. It's not about receiving a signal and outputting it to the speakers. I believe the term 'receiver' was more related to tuning into radio, back then. Nowadays, I think it's pretty much the generic name for a big box that does just about everything, including powering speakers without integrated amplifiers and providing the ability to plug in an antenna.
 
I just dumped my Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 because it just didn't please me enough. Here's my latest 2.1 setup. Energy RC-1 satellites, Energy 8" sub, Audiolab 8000A integrated amp with both analog direct to 2 PC's and digital connection to EMU 0404 USB that is fed digitally from 2 PC's by Chaintech AV-710 and X-Fi XtremeMusic. Then on top of all that the EMU 0404 is connected to an Onkyo 7.1 channel "Reciever" via analog and not just the 2 channel amp so I can have use my PC's also over 5.1 HT audio. Beat that with your Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 setup Mr. Magoo aka Joe Average. ;)
 
Cyrilix said:
The link that Joe Average provided is pretty much spot-on when it comes to modern day receivers. It's not about receiving a signal and outputting it to the speakers. I believe the term 'receiver' was more related to tuning into radio, back then. Nowadays, I think it's pretty much the generic name for a big box that does just about everything, including powering speakers without integrated amplifiers and providing the ability to plug in an antenna.
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Just for the record, the "old" days:

Separate "Pre-amp" + "Power Amp" as a single unit = "Integrated Amp"

Separate "Integrated Amp" + "Tuner" = "Receiver" (all-in-one solution)

This was, of course, the 2.0 days. Bi-amping and subwoofers were "exotic" extras. :)
 
Joe, you are being nothing but great with your recent posts. Why the hell would someone flame you? If they do I will melt their head.

Good posts people. I really appreciate the helpful tone that this thread has taken.
 
milkweg said:
Beat that with your Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 setup Mr. Magoo aka Joe Average. ;)
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I don't need to "beat" anything as if I was there listening to all that hardware with my own two ears there's always the possibility it'll sound like absolute shit to me, remember? Your ears, my ears, they don't work the same, bub. :)

Don't make me go to the storage unit and pull out my Paradigm Reference set and the Mark Levinson mono tube amps, just don't. :D I put that stuff away 'cause it was taking up too much time fiddling and tweaking and looking for the "best" it could be. I'm older now and I came to realization that I could care less as modern day stuff sounds just fine to me.

If, however, I do happen upon a pair of Swans M10 someday I'll have fun finally giving them a thorough audition, I assure you.
 
Ah, but I can guarantee you would prefer the Energy RC-1 satellites over the Klipsch ProMedia's and probably those Swans too, although, I have never heard those Swans. Just guesstimating. They are crystal clear and very revealing. If you like classical music you would really like them. But you do need an amp for them of course. They cost a bit more than the ProMedia's too. Not too expensive though. I paid $450.00 CAD for mine and that was after I talked them down $50.00. Probably cheaper in the U.S. even though they are a Canadian made product. BTW, Klipsch now owns Energy Speaker company so you buy Energy and you are still supporting Klipsch. They own another higher end Canadian speraker company too but can't remember who it is now. At least they don't have their grubby paws on Paradigm, yet.
 
Sorry, but you can't guarantee a damned thing - you don't know my hearing like I do. :) It's all about the ears, folks.

I think in the long run the point becomes simple: I'm not interested in spending another dime on another system when the one I have now is entirely functional and more than adequate for the purposes they're designed for.

Someone just gave me a pair of Samson Resolv 40a powered NFMs (on the low end of Samson's hardware but even so...) on Friday. Not too shabby, nice punch to 'em considering what they'd made of, but no sub means they're too lacking. I'll throw 'em up on Craig's List for $100 and keep my Klipsch, thanks. :D
 
So to start building up my computer audio system (I don't need a crazy bass yet... I just want my essentials for gaming) I can start off with a purchase of Behringer MS20 Digital Monitors from zzounds.com? They are known for good quality, flexibility (input into computer or TV or others), and longevity?

And then I can add the bass after I build a little more money?
 
Alai said:
So to start building up my computer audio system (I don't need a crazy bass yet... I just want my essentials for gaming) I can start off with a purchase of Behringer MS20 Digital Monitors from zzounds.com? They are known for good quality, flexibility (input into computer or TV or others), and longevity?

And then I can add the bass after I build a little more money?
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Yeah. That is the idea. The MS20s will not do well at all for bass compared to using a sub. However, they will be so much better for mids and highs than normal pc speakers that you should be happy. It is a great start in other words. You can really build a decent stereo with them.
 
If I needed a setup for purely gaming/movies are the MS20s still the best value? I don't listen to any music and am more concerned with clarity/crispness of sounds like gunfire, explosions, and voices/speech. I don't enjoy boomy bass since I seem to get hearing fatigue from it although I don't know if that's just a problem with crappy setups.
 
What about M-Audio? I've been told by a couple acquaintances that M-Audio has decent monitors for about $100. Will they do better than the Behringers for general use (gaming, movies, music)?
 
chineseman said:
If I needed a setup for purely gaming/movies are the MS20s still the best value? I don't listen to any music and am more concerned with clarity/crispness of sounds like gunfire, explosions, and voices/speech. I don't enjoy boomy bass since I seem to get hearing fatigue from it although I don't know if that's just a problem with crappy setups.
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This is exactly what this setup is made for. Good clean sound.

The M-audio does not have the flexibility of the berenger. Sound is fine though.

The Berenger has optical inputs, analogue outputs for the sub, a dac, an ok headphone amp and my blessing.
 
Alai said:
Behringer or the Swan M10 ($82 now)?
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depends on what you want.

the behringer by itself vs the m10? = m10

the behringer + subwoofer vs the m10 = behringer by a loooooong shot.

the main difference will be in the bass area. the m10 is a polite, compact but small setup meant for desktop.

the behringer + a sub is damn near full range with a decent sound stage and full bodied bass response.

however it is $200 for that vs $82 for the m10. you can get the behringer now ($100) and add the sub ($100) later though.
 
Alai said:
Hmm... Even for gaming the Behringer is better?
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With a sub yes. They will do the job better than the m10. Sound stage will be more separated aka you will hear left and right more clearly than the m10. plus the bass difference alone is huge. you want bass in your games right? the m10 is not going to slam you or shake the chair much.

oh and you don't need a sound card with the behringer. it has a built in dac. so onboard optical out is fine.
 
$500? Ok, this is just a quick throw.

Panasonic XR-57, there is one fs on av123 forum classifieds for $190. Hell of a receiver.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=35262

X-LS Classics for $140

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=35065

Ok now the sub. You could get the Dayton 8" or 10" and be under $500 but I would go with this 12". I am probably going to get two of these for my HT build.

http://www.bicacoustechspeakers.com/closeup.asp?cid=188&pid=125&offset=0

I promise this will melt your head.
 
Perhaps I'm completely missing something, but from the specs page/manual I don't see what analog output you would use to connect a sub. How would you go about that?
 
Wouldn't you just connect the sub to the receiver? Or are you talking about the sub to receiver connection?
 
Jakcoy101 said:
Perhaps I'm completely missing something, but from the specs page/manual I don't see what analog output you would use to connect a sub. How would you go about that?
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They have analogue output for the sub if you are referring to the monitor/sub combo. If it is the receiver (which I doubt) there is a subwoofer output.
 
I am referring to the monitor/sub combo, but I'm failing to find the analog output you refer to. The only output I see on the back is the "To Left Speaker" RCA jack, and the item description doesn't mention anything about outputs (besides the headphones jack of course). Am I still missing something?

I'm seriously considering this alternative of yours, just want to make sure it all fits before I bite :)
 
Not missing anything. Run a mini to rca cable from your mobo or soundcard to the sub. Normal pc setup. I see where the confusion is. I will edit that sorry.
 
Does anyone know if the drivers in the MS20 and the MS40 are the same? I wonder if they're the same drivers in the same cabinet with more amplification?
 
spaceman said:
Not missing anything. Run a mini to rca cable from your mobo or soundcard to the sub. Normal pc setup. I see where the confusion is. I will edit that sorry.
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I'm not sure if this is good advice. The sub's single-RCA input is the LFE input (low frequency effects), so you are supposed to be passing the low frequency signal after your receiver has filtered it with its crossover. You're not (I don't think) supposed to send it the full signal. Some subs will let you pass in the line input and allow you to use the sub's crossover (with some knobs behind the sub for you to tweak), but this means two pairs (4) of RCA inputs, one pair for each channel.
 
Cyrilix said:
I'm not sure if this is good advice. The sub's single-RCA input is the LFE input (low frequency effects), so you are supposed to be passing the low frequency signal after your receiver has filtered it with its crossover. You're not (I don't think) supposed to send it the full signal. Some subs will let you pass in the line input and allow you to use the sub's crossover (with some knobs behind the sub for you to tweak), but this means two pairs (4) of RCA inputs, one pair for each channel.
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Won't a pc's sound card output only low frequencies on the sub out? if it's a 6ch/8ch card? If that is the case, then there should be no problem there.
 
overclockedpc said:
Won't a pc's sound card output only low frequencies on the sub out? if it's a 6ch/8ch card? If that is the case, then there should be no problem there.
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Ah, I see. My bad. I thought he was talking about the standard green output. That's the only one that I've ever used so I forgot about the other ones!
 
spaceman said:
$500? Ok, this is just a quick throw.

Panasonic XR-57, there is one fs on av123 forum classifieds for $190. Hell of a receiver.

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=35262

X-LS Classics for $140

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?t=35065

Ok now the sub. You could get the Dayton 8" or 10" and be under $500 but I would go with this 12". I am probably going to get two of these for my HT build.

http://www.bicacoustechspeakers.com/closeup.asp?cid=188&pid=125&offset=0

I promise this will melt your head.
Click to expand...

ok maybe i will just stick to the MS40.....
 
If I wanted to connect that sub (Dayton 8" 80 watt) to this sound card would I just use a 3.5mm to rca cable like this, and I'm assuming the speakers would come with a 3.5mm cable because it has a 3.5 jack on the back?

And also I was wondering if later on down the line I could just hook up another pair of these speakers to the rear ports on this sound card to make it a 5.1 setup? Thanks for all your help in this thread spaceman.
 
adutch said:
If I wanted to connect that sub (Dayton 8" 80 watt) to this sound card would I just use a 3.5mm to rca cable like this, and I'm assuming the speakers would come with a 3.5mm cable because it has a 3.5 jack on the back?

And also I was wondering if later on down the line I could just hook up another pair of these speakers to the rear ports on this sound card to make it a 5.1 setup? Thanks for all your help in this thread spaceman.
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The speakers would have the RCA end.
 
For the record, I went with the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 setup but only because I got them for $110 new.
 
Huh? Because the Behringer MS20 speakers he suggested have a 3.5mm jack so wouldn't it be easier just to use a 3.5mm cable from the computer to the speakers? And then I could get a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the sub because it doesn't look like it has a 3.5mm jack on it.

Is that right or am I confused?
 
adutch said:
Huh? Because the Behringer MS20 speakers he suggested have a 3.5mm jack so wouldn't it be easier just to use a 3.5mm cable from the computer to the speakers? And then I could get a 3.5mm to RCA cable for the sub because it doesn't look like it has a 3.5mm jack on it.

Is that right or am I confused?
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I thought you were talking about the sub - I should've read better. I'm not sure what connections the speakers have, so I'm the one that's confused, not you. :p
 
Audio inputs
Line 1: 1/8" TRS stereo, impedance 20k Ohm
Line 2: 2 RCA, impedance 20k Ohm

Digital inputs
Optical: TOSLINK
Coaxial: RCA
Converter: 24-bit
Sample rate: < 192 kHz

System specifications
Output power: 2 x 10 W
Frequency response: 65 Hz to 25 kHz

Ok. You have 2 analogue inputs: a 1/8th mini stereo jack, or regular rca.

So yes. You could buy another set for 4.1 or two sets for 5.1 or 6.1.

All you will need is the 1/8th to 1/8th stereo cable or an optical cable for the digital input.

Easy. One wire in, a single rca to the left speaker and voila! You are hooked up.

For the sub, you need a 1/8th to rca single or stereo for dual subs. :D
 
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