Some Ryzen Linux Users Are Facing Issues With Heavy Compilation Loads

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by juanrga, Jun 8, 2017.

  1. juanrga

    juanrga Gawd

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    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Compiler-Issues

    It originally looked as an bug on GCC, but last research seems to confirm this is part of the older SMT/uop bug. Remember that earlier engineering samples had uop or the SMT disabled due to this bug. It seems that the bug wasn't completely corrected in retail chips. The problem seems to be traced down to the IRETQ instruction and it is not reproducible when threads are running on different cores.

    AMD is recommending to disable SMT

    https://community.amd.com/thread/216084
    https://community.amd.com/message/2796982

    Surely a microcode update will fix this.
     
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  2. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Best part of it is /r/AMD going full denial over it.
     
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  3. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    So now SMT is broken too? FMA loads bugged, Virtualization bugged.
     
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  4. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Better this then the run away train that "Remote security exploit in all 2008+ Intel platforms"" which is fused of in desktop models or is it ?

    That quote is from the 1st link you wrote.


    Last link you used has this:
    Yeah it is odd that a B350 board crashes under heavy load with 8 cores since none of the current B350 board can handle that load for a good time. You would have known that if you knew anything about Ryzen.

    On the 1st forum link from AMD you just took a reply

    Hardly proof of anything since the person that replied has no standing on the forum , it might have well been yourself writing this.
     
  5. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Uhm, you have a preference for AMD, don't you?
    Because you're straight up shitting on AM4 as a whole.
     
  6. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    No he is shitting on B350 chipset. People are hoarding X370 chipset mobos for a good reason and that reason is not because of SLI or few extra connections nobody ever uses that x370 comes with. Most B350 boards are apparently quite shitty, with inadequate VRM designs (and poorly cooled too) that barely hold together stock Ryzens and flat out overheat when overclocked.
     
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  7. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    And the funny story here is that Ryzen holds much lower value if i have to fucking overpay for my motherboard for it work properly.

    But hey, in the end marketing stunt from AMD worked, unlocked Ryzens are unlocked, and we don't care if it won't work once overclocked if you paid less than $130 for a mobo.
     
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  8. MaZa

    MaZa 2[H]4U

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    I admit the mobo issue is one of the reasons why I am hestitating on switching my Sandy for Ryzen. There is lot to love about Ryzen performance/value but I refuse to pay a premium for mobo with RGB fleshlight built-in and other nonsense just to get a stable overclocking platform.

    But I'm not sure AMD is to blame here. I blame mobo manufacturers personally.
     
  9. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sure, mobo manufacture share some of the blame for implementation, but ultimately everyone knew from get go that it would not use quality VRMs and stuff, enabling overclocking on it was just a cheap trick to score sympathy points. You don't name chipsets after Intel's chipsets without consequences.
     
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  10. Dermac

    Dermac [H]Lite

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    AMD unlocked all their new chips, still waiting to see this from intel, and they released designs for a few different chipsets for motherboard manufacturers to make. They released different designs based on customer preference and price. Obviously the lower price motherboards don't overclock as well as these boards beefier brothers, this is a constant on both sides of the chip aisle for way before these chipsets or the chipsets before it came along.

    From my own experience, I built a 6600K system with a $160 ASUS motherboard for a friend and it couldn't hold a 100mhz overclock without shutting down, ended up just not overclocking the more expensive 'K' chip. My 1700 with a $150 ASUS X370 board holds a 700mhz overclock without trouble. So it would seem that intel would be to blame for ASUS making a Z170 board with advertised but ultimately shitty overclock functions and I would have to praise AMD for ASUS making a board that can overclock. Does this make sense, because it doesn't for me.
     
  11. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    If you are going to bring up anecdotes, let me bring one too: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/06/04/asus_rog_crosshair_vi_hero_ryzen_motherboard_review/7

    That's the consistent picture that matters, and as Pieter put it, the consistent picture is not good for B350.
     
  12. Gideon

    Gideon Gawd

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    B350 chipset should not be the choice for overclocking on for a 8 core chip. There are cheaper x370 boards out there that will work far better, you dont have to buy the highest end x370 boards. AMD would have been better off to not allow 8 core overclocking on the B350 chipsets, but some of them are built well and can handle it. Same posters always trying to find something on systems they dont even use.
     
  13. Findecanor

    Findecanor [H]Lite

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    I have heard that there were a couple real CPU bugs fixed in a recent AGESA update. Can't tell if that is the end of it though.
     
  14. KD5ZXG

    KD5ZXG [H]Lite

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    B350 bashing is nonsense. B350 barely does anything, nothing to go wrong.
    No problems here, even crossfire'd RX480's that haters say shouldn't work.
    I spent like $60 for an ASUS Prime B350+ on day #1, still close to same
    price today. There are a few too many LEDs. But all the regs got adequate
    heatsinks if you have some air movement in the vicinity.

    I can't fathom why zero voltage switching VRMs havn't caught on.
    despite this next link, you don't need 48V distribution to do this.
    http://www.vicorpower.com/industries-computing/48v-direct-to-cpu
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  15. Gideon

    Gideon Gawd

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    I dont think were really bashing it, just should not be the first choice for overclocking since the VRM is usually not as good. X370 is the better choice for pushing clocks and running 24 hours a day on it.
     
  16. Sodapopjones

    Sodapopjones [H]ard|Gawd

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    TBH I was weary of the B350 boards and took the plunge, Ryzen really isn't any more of a headache than earlier AM3(+) platforms, I can say the fun I had with my 1055T was actually worse than Ryzen... There were ram compatibility issues, and even CPU issues way back then. The only thing I'm missing from my 4670K is single threaded performance my eyes can't see a difference with anyway...But let me tell you alt - tabbing out of Watch Dogs doesn't turn my PC into a slide show anymore...
     
  17. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Someone that has put the B350 through some stress testing. Came to the conclusion 4 cores and overclocked is the limit of most if not all current boards.
    I posted this several times for users on [H] know what the limitations are because B350 and 8 core is such a good "deal" .
     
  18. ecmaster76

    ecmaster76 Gawd

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    Really, its nothing to do with the chipset. Nothing prevents building a B350 board with top notch VRMs or a X370 board with absolute junk.

    Just try to find a model that will meet your needs.
     
  19. Findecanor

    Findecanor [H]Lite

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    B350 boards can have up to 4+3+2 -phase VRM (CPU+SoC+RAM), but most B350 boards are really 3+2+1 or so. Some do look like they have more phases but those have actually only duplicated components for the same phases.
    Many X370 boards have 6-phase VRM for the CPU.

    If you are going to run more than four cores then the board will also need heat sinks on the VRM - which not all B350 boards have.
    And there were some settings that I don't really understand yet that the X370 did have but the B350 did not.

    And BTW, over here where I live, a motherboard can cost twice as much as it does in the US and we don't get them all. So choosing becomes more important. The ridiculous unnecessary shortage of a good mATX board for Ryzen has held me off for months now.
     
  20. juanrga

    juanrga Gawd

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    In case the OP wasn't sufficiently clear, this doesn't have any to do with chipsets or overclocking. The problem is appearing on non-overclocked chips running on X370 mobos.

    This is a CPU bug, and it was communicated to AMD in April.
     
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  21. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yet the OP has been debunked on almost all counts and not able to post any valid information in any of his links, let alone a quote from pertinent source about the exact issue.
    https://hardforum.com/threads/some-...vy-compilation-loads.1936605/#post-1043046431

    The youtube video acknowledges that you are not able to run 1800x on high load on B350 without problems attached to it. The OP has yet to understand what this means when hardware is forced a full load it either crashes or fails whichever comes first.

    Spouting your own opinion on this matter does not make it so.
     
  22. juanrga

    juanrga Gawd

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    Some are still in denial mode I see. Meanwhile AMD is investigating the issue...
     
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  23. Shintai

    Shintai [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yep. A future microcode update should fix it.
     
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  24. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your links don't prove any of this , why would you troll on this forum information from April , what purpose do you have showing links which are not from April nor confirm any issues...

    If I would now go to the Intel forum and post about the dead C2000 series from Intel I would get a warning or banned, months after it happened..
     
  25. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is a show stopper bug for me at home and at work. It absolutely needs to be fixed before I can consider AMD for a workstation purchase ( which I am in the market for both at home and work).
     
  26. CVNet1

    CVNet1 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The Intel processor only remote security exploit due to the security component of the chip having effectively root level bare metal access beyond the reach of the operating system is a showstopper for buying an amd processor?

    Or were you saying the amd micro-op code issue that generates unexpected slow behavior on heavy linux loads when smt is enabled is the show stopper for you?
     
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  27. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That would be my usage (heavy loads under linux) both at home and at work. And from my reading its not just slow behavior. It ranges from application instability/crashes to total system lockups under high load.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
  28. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    so this is not fixed yet?
     
  29. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    On several of the threads that are linked users were still able to reproduce this last week with several theories what the cause of this is and also several workarounds that seemed to reduce the chances of hitting this bug.
     
  30. gigatexal

    gigatexal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Shit. Sad. I need this to be solved because my main use case will be compiling tons of stuff all day long.
     
  31. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That is part of what I would do on the linux workstations that I need.
     
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  32. BitMaster

    BitMaster [H]Lite

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    Last week I bought an Ryzen5 1600x with an Asus Prime X370-Pro, 2x8GB DDR4-2666 for office use. I cant say the board was expensive at 155 €, nor was the R5. What I can say it, it beats my KabyLake in any disciplin other than gaming. No issues from A-Z, it even overclocks all cores to 4GHz ( with this cheap Asus borad again, I tend to love the Prime series by now ), runs cool with 60-65°C after 1h p95-AVX.

    I may boot Ubuntu LTS from a stick and test myself...that is a real bad situation for AMD then....NOOOOOO !

    Not being able to compile is a BAD THING in my world as well. Virtual support as well.


    AMD, have you again fucked it up ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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  33. Findecanor

    Findecanor [H]Lite

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    With the latest AGESA update?
     
  34. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I see that some have mentioned that AGESA 1.0.0.6 fixes the problem. But then others are still reporting the crashing. It is unclear what exactly they have tried however.
     
  35. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    And you forgot the part what I linked above that the poster on phoronix does not experience the bug itself. Some people do and some don't. But that is not my issue all the links describe a different problem with different causes.

    this post makes sense somewhat maybe

    So Drescherjm does the bold part make sense to you for fixing a micro op cache bug by fiddling with load line calibration?

    Not sure if they tested the same problems would arise under Windows , what makes Linux so special ;) .
     
  36. drescherjm

    drescherjm [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Possibly could be how the OS is scheduling threads makes it less likely on windows.
     
  37. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    The combination of unfinished bios maybe not that well optimized kernel and some user errors (someone posted about smt disabled not working). But I'll stick to my comments on running 8-6 core on current B350 is asking for problems (especially with heavy load for a sustained time).
     
  38. BitMaster

    BitMaster [H]Lite

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    Why not, LLC may stabilize some circuits that otherwise crash and produce all sorts of errors. been there myself, not while compiling but when overclocking and stress testing.

    Some under-voltage/too-little-current can cause strange things to happen.

    If it cures it, why not, would be an easy fix but maybe not with a B350 board that isnt really the VRM wonder by definition.
     
  39. Pieter3dnow

    Pieter3dnow [H]ardness Supreme

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    It is not what the OP stated a micro op cache bug that can be fixed by load line calibration. It would be a very dubious problem if that was needed for a stock platform and also much more apparent in stress testing not exclusively show up under Linux only.

    Load line calibration is in general only used for when a cpu comes out of idle or sleep and gets a stupid amount of workload to deal with not being able to switch to a higher voltage fast enough to handle it.
    It makes little to no sense that this would actually "fix" a cache bug Given with the current state of AM4 bios I wonder if that has really got an impact overall, it shows that some systems prolly don't get enough power under load rather then a bug with a micro op cache (because that is all that LLC is doing really).

    You could say that a workload as rendering blender or cinebench would nearly as much show the same symptoms as compiling source under GCC in Linux. That is why I am wondering if GCC under Windows would show the same problem(s).
     
  40. lolfail9001

    lolfail9001 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Windows generally does not have make -j9. No, Prime95 sucks balls in terms of stress testing when compared to it. Especially P95 on Ryzen.
     
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