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Some hard Fermi performance # info

Snowdog said:
It seems to be much more about having the biggest e-peen than it does about have the performance you need to play games.

I don't know for certain, but I get the impression that the $500 video card market is a shrinking one. As it stands now, I don't know any of my friends that would even consider spending $200 on video card anymore except me and we are almost all computer nerds (sw devs/sw testers), but we are getting older now. Maybe twentysomethings are routinely dropping $500 on video cards. I don't know.
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Have you ever had a good multi-cpu rig and played some games on it? Do that and get back to me. Sure, you can spend $300 on a video card, get decent performance overall. Or you can spend $1500 for three high-end GPUs and see what you're missing.
 
heatlesssun said:
Sure, you can spend $300 on a video card, get decent performance overall. Or you can spend $1500 for three high-end GPUs and see what you're missing.
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The only thing I would be missing is that pointless waste of $1200.
 
Snowdog said:
The only thing I would be missing is that pointless waste of $1200.
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Pointless to you and that's fine. You'd rather have the money and a slower less capable system and that's cool.

To me a $300 video card is little better than a console. So I'm wasting $1200 and you're playing games on a console. Good thing we have choice.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pointless to you and that's fine. You'd rather have the money and a slower less capable system and that's cool.

To me a $300 video card is little better than a console. So I'm wasting $1200 and you're playing games on a console. Good thing we have choice.
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waste of money. I used to buy crossfire cards and have 2 or 4 of them. But then I stoped. The improvements were never worth the money nad 6 months or a year later they would have newer cards .

So now i just spend $300 on video cards and get great performance and then a year later spend another $300 and get great performance. Becomes cheaper in the end and a better experiance
 
nomu said:
I'm in total agreement with your priorities, but that thing in your sig still stands out ;)
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Well, a lot of frustration with crappy displays drove me over the edge. :D
But I will be using this display until it burns out (at least 4 years-warranty length). How many will be using their high end graphics cards 4 years from now.

Today there are alternatives that are much more reasonably priced, so if doing it today, I would be looking for that new HP 24" IPS or Dell U2410.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pointless to you and that's fine. You'd rather have the money and a slower less capable system and that's cool.

To me a $300 video card is little better than a console. So I'm wasting $1200 and you're playing games on a console. Good thing we have choice.
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Don't barf out the hyperbole to prove a point. The 5850 costs $300 or less, and is several generations and several orders of magnitude better than anything in a console.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pointless to you and that's fine. You'd rather have the money and a slower less capable system and that's cool.

To me a $300 video card is little better than a console. So I'm wasting $1200 and you're playing games on a console. Good thing we have choice.
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That'd fine cept for the fact that 300 dollar video cards have been out pacing consoles performance wise for the last 3 years and by the time the next consoles arrive with performance on par with where we were last gen, they'll be that far behind again. So your point is very mute. Hell, I paid 300 for my 2x evga GTX260 216s, they run game faster than aGTX285 and give me all the eye candy I need for now.
 
XMAN245 said:
That'd fine cept for the fact that 300 dollar video cards have been out pacing consoles performance wise for the last 3 years and by the time the next consoles arrive with performance on par with where we were last gen, they'll be that far behind again. So your point is very mute. Hell, I paid 300 for my 2x evga GTX260 216s, they run game faster than aGTX285 and give me all the eye candy I need for now.
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I was talking about new hardware. Used and and obsolete stuff is another matter. My only point was that people who say "My $300 video is just as good as that $1500 setup and I just saved $1200" (talking new here) are fooling themselves a bit.
 
heatlesssun said:
I was talking about new hardware. Used and and obsolete stuff is another matter. My only point was that people who say "My $300 video is just as good as that $1500 setup and I just saved $1200" (talking new here) are fooling themselves a bit.
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In most games it is just as good though. Find me a game that a 5850 can't max at 1920x1200 and you'll be showing me Crysis and nothing else. $1500 in video cards is either for people who aren't using them to play games (GPGPU and the like) or for people with more money than sense. If you like it, great, but to say that its a huge leap over $300 cards is ridiculous.
 
kllrnohj said:
In most games it is just as good though. Find me a game that a 5850 can't max at 1920x1200 and you'll be showing me Crysis and nothing else. $1500 in video cards is either for people who aren't using them to play games (GPGPU and the like) or for people with more money than sense. If you like it, great, but to say that its a huge leap over $300 cards is ridiculous.
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A 5850 can max-out Crysis though, albeit 2xAA at most.

And I agree with this post. There are so many diminishing returns with a tri-sli/crossfire-x setup that you've gotta be deluding yourself if you think it's worth the extra $1200.
 
heatlesssun said:
Pointless to you and that's fine. You'd rather have the money and a slower less capable system and that's cool.

To me a $300 video card is little better than a console. So I'm wasting $1200 and you're playing games on a console. Good thing we have choice.
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You pretty much make up a incredibly small part of the PC market. To me, & many others, Multi Monitor gaming is still a niche to PC gaming although both Nvidia & AMD is making it more interesting. With that said, a huge chunk of physical video card sales occur in the mid to low range market. At the moment, Eyefinity is pretty much pointless if you don't own a high end AMD card. So even if Eyefinity is more than capable of running on a single high end card such as the 5850, 5870 & 5890, whoever is investing in the tech is going to most likely have more than one GPU in X-Fire mode.

A lot of people are not willing to spend as much as you on computer hardware. Most feel that it is better spent elsewhere. I'm willing to invest on a single top of the line 30" monitor rather than settle with 3+ decent monitors of a smaller size. Besides, the bezels still ruin multi monitor gaming. Now, if they designed a GOOD bezeless 3 montior screen that didn't cost the same amount of a 2010 Honda Civic, then I'll step into the realm of Multi Monitor gaming.
 
Have we got any update on what the pricing on this bad boys will be like yet?
 
Mr. K6 said:
Here's some speculation after guessing chip cost: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1488347

I seriously doubt the prices will be that low though.
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Actually this article does make sense. The chip has been hard to produce and initially nVidia isn't going to make money on it, in fact it looks like they are going to lose some simply because nVidia can only realistically price the GF 100 according to what the market will bear and performance that's between a 5870 and 5970 that costs $520 to $550 makes sense as that's between the price of the 5870 and 5970. Now people are saying that AMD can easily lower prices, and no doubt that they will if they see the need but I would imagine that its not something that would want to do preemptively unless the GF 100 is looking to be a VERY competitive product.
 
heatlesssun said:
I was talking about new hardware. Used and and obsolete stuff is another matter. My only point was that people who say "My $300 video is just as good as that $1500 setup and I just saved $1200" (talking new here) are fooling themselves a bit.
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Old and new tech , the same thing applies. If someone can buy 2 5770 for the cost of 1 5850 and get better performance, the princable still applies.
 
heatlesssun said:
Actually this article does make sense. The chip has been hard to produce and initially nVidia isn't going to make money on it, in fact it looks like they are going to lose some simply because nVidia can only realistically price the GF 100 according to what the market will bear and performance that's between a 5870 and 5970 that costs $520 to $550 makes sense as that's between the price of the 5870 and 5970. Now people are saying that AMD can easily lower prices, and no doubt that they will if they see the need but I would imagine that its not something that would want to do preemptively unless the GF 100 is looking to be a VERY competitive product.
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AMD don't need to lower the price preemptively but if they lower the price just before Fermi reviews are out, I wonder how many editors would have to change the conclusion of their articles.
 
XMAN245 said:
Old and new tech , the same thing applies. If someone can buy 2 5770 for the cost of 1 5850 and get better performance, the princable still applies.
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You're talking about something a little more specific than what I was talking. Sure you can shop around and get better price and performance deals with various configurations. I was simply saying that at new $300 isn't going to touch overall $1500.

That $300 may work fine for a single screen 1920x1200 resolution setup in games at decent settings. If that's what you want and that's your budget more power to you.

But hell yes, I want multi-monitor gaming. Thinking about 3D as well but that'll limit my monitors to 3 x 1920x1080 and I really want to stick to 1920x1200. I need to look into so more.

So PC gamers who spend the money have a lot of options and the performance to power those options.
 
If AMD took the route of lowering prices they could really put a hurt on Nvidia and make them hemorrhage more money this generation. Honestly, it's what id be preparing to do in their shoes.
 
Vashypooh said:
If AMD took the route of lowering prices they could really put a hurt on Nvidia and make them hemorrhage more money this generation. Honestly, it's what id be preparing to do in their shoes.
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AMD would only do this if they think they'd be able to sell enough volume to offset the lower profit margins that lowering prices would cause. I haven't checked on their financial status recently, but the last time I did check, they were still in quite a bit of debt, and they're still getting a beating from Intel on the CPU front, though not nearly as bad after their settlement. I think AMD's focus is going to be what's best for AMD, not necessarily what's worse for nVidia.
 
What I'm wondering about are the power connectors.

I have four 6-pin power connectors, dangling on two separate cables from my non-modular power supply. Right now, one of the cables is free, and is tucked up under the hood of the computer case. The other cable, with its two 6-pin power connectors, is hooked up to my GTX 275.

It sure would be nice to see a card that only requires two 6-pin power connectors, like the 275.
 
RamonGTP said:
AMD would only do this if they think they'd be able to sell enough volume to offset the lower profit margins that lowering prices would cause. I haven't checked on their financial status recently, but the last time I did check, they were still in quite a bit of debt, and they're still getting a beating from Intel on the CPU front, though not nearly as bad after their settlement. I think AMD's focus is going to be what's best for AMD, not necessarily what's worse for nVidia.
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The 5870 is very cheap to make compared to what even a high yielding fermi would cost to make.

Ati can price reduce greatly and still make a profit. So it really only depends on ow much faster the fermi turns out to be. If its 20% and costs $400 then ati can simply drop the 5870 to $350 and it will still be a valid choice compared to the $400 fermi. The problem comes if the fermi is 40% faster they would have to drop prices down to $300. Of course thats not a huge deal breaker for them anyway as a 5870 costs under $150 to create.

We also don't know what amd has waiting in the wings. Remember the 5870 came out in sept. Yields could have improved to the point where tehy can clock higher to make up the speed diffrence , there are faster ram speeds avalible also if thats a problem it has. They could have also added more rops ,tmus and shader units to a new 5890 edition of teh chip.Remember the cypress chip is almost 1billion tranistors less than the fermi. Adding rops and tmus is not a huge issue as they are pretty small at this point and going from 1600 shaders to 1800 or 2000 shaders isn't a huge deal either. It wouldn't increase the size to greatly in the end.
 
WabeWalker said:
What I'm wondering about are the power connectors.

I have four 6-pin power connectors, dangling on two separate cables from my non-modular power supply. Right now, one of the cables is free, and is tucked up under the hood of the computer case. The other cable, with its two 6-pin power connectors, is hooked up to my GTX 275.

It sure would be nice to see a card that only requires two 6-pin power connectors, like the 275.
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If your PSU is good, you can use a 6-8 pin adapter just fine... technically it doesn't ground like a spec one would but many PSU's with the native 8-pin don't ground it per spec in any case.

FUDzilla: http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17357/1/
we expect shortages of these cards as they should be very desirable.
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Gearing up for a March launch, as we knew... just more speculation/rumors that it may be earlier in March though.
 
pasta4u said:
The 5870 is very cheap to make compared to what even a high yielding fermi would cost to make.

Ati can price reduce greatly and still make a profit. So it really only depends on ow much faster the fermi turns out to be. If its 20% and costs $400 then ati can simply drop the 5870 to $350 and it will still be a valid choice compared to the $400 fermi. The problem comes if the fermi is 40% faster they would have to drop prices down to $300. Of course thats not a huge deal breaker for them anyway as a 5870 costs under $150 to create.

We also don't know what amd has waiting in the wings. Remember the 5870 came out in sept. Yields could have improved to the point where they can clock higher to make up the speed diffrence , there are faster ram speeds available also if thats a problem it has. They could have also added more rops ,tmus and shader units to a new 5890 edition of teh chip.Remember the cypress chip is almost 1billion tranistors less than the fermi. Adding rops and tmus is not a huge issue as they are pretty small at this point and going from 1600 shaders to 1800 or 2000 shaders isn't a huge deal either. It wouldn't increase the size to greatly in the end.
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What exactly was the point of this long winded, very speculative post? None what what you just said counters what I said. AMD is not going to sell themselves short just to "stick it to nVidia" If $300 is where the 5870 will maximize profits, that's where they'll price it. If it isn't, they won't. Why do you think they raised MSRP of the 5850 and 5870? Clearly, raising prices is not going to draw in more customers and take market share away from nVidia. They did it because they saw the demand for these cards and realized that RAISING the price increased their margins. When Fermi is released, AMD is going to do whats best for AMD. They'll analyze the market demand and price the 5870 accordingly.

There's a difference between what the CAN do and what they WILL do. Maybe they CAN sell at $300, but if selling at $320 or $350 is more profitable, that's where it will be priced.
 
Gee, there's really only one answer to all of this. AMD will price their cards as high as they can. And so will nVidia. The rest of it is called the market.
 
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