Some GOOD News

[chenw]

Wow! That is a nice looking monitor! Surprised at the cost being that it supports HDR and is FreeSync II (doesn't look like that added anything to the cost either), 144hz too. I almost want to buy one for the Vega 64.

As much as I give lots of grief to AMD, that's exactly my sentiment. I am looking into getting this monitor if it wasn't (bizarrely) perpetually out of stock.

About closest to a perfect gaming monitor as one can get without going into OLED territory.

 

[cybereality]

RE7 was one of the best games I've played in a while. Beat it on PSVR, and then immediately bought the PC version to play again from the beginning in 4K. Great game.

 

[Factum]

I love forums...you can go search up old threads...that debunk lies/ignorance:

https://hardforum.com/threads/a-real-test-of-nvidia-vs-amd-2d-image-quality.1694755/

And using more "digital vibrance" is like using "loudnes" in music....sheeps think "louder = better".
Those in the know...know better.

This thread has now become facts vs fuzzy-warm-feelings/ignorance....color me surprised

 

[Sith'ari]

I'll agree but in a different context. I have a pretty decent home theater. I could never get the black levels right with my Nvidia cards. Had frustrations with that for years. Posted here and at avsfourm, on jriver forum and chased the issue for years. HDMI full/limited, color space 0-255 or 16-255, custom tweaking. Confit files you name it I tried it. Even over three different projectors. I upgraded from a gtx 670 card to a AMD 285 card and boom --- problem gone. Blacks looked fantastic. Colors looked better and more natural. Fury X same thing.
I recently bought the 1080tis but I'm mining with them. I haven't tried them on the projector. But I gotta agree with you in that the AMD card just worked out of the box and looked fantastic on my home theater projector.
My last two projectors for reference.
Epson 8350
Panasonic ae8000u
In my case I don't think it was as noticeable on my monitors.

The last time i remember a discussion being made about GPUs difference at image quality, was back in 2001-2002.
There had been comparisons between GeForce4 MX440 Vs Radeon7500 (*or 8500 , not sure ), and it was mentioned an image-quality difference between those 2 (with the MX400 being the worst one).
Since then, i can't recall another debate on this matter, and personally, when i watch youtube videos while comparing videogames (*using split screen), i can't notice any graphical difference between GPUs.
Perhaps what you say comes from a monitor-settings issue. Probably AMD's default settings respond better combined with your monitor's default settings. As you know , TVs/Monitors aren't identical. They have different grey to grey response time, different refresh rate, some advertise their "supreme contrast" technology (Panasonic), their "mega contrast" technology (Samsung) ....etc...etc.......there is no end at the advertised technologies about TV image quality. So, as i said, perhaps, for some reason your specific projector's default settings, combined better with AMD's default ones.

 

[N4CR]

Pre-pascal Nvidia dGPU does not support 10 bit outside of DX apps. Which means many non-gaming apps and that's from horses mouth. Sure you can tweak shit but you're still spitting 8 bit out in most cases. So yes you can have banding and shitty gradients, especially on anything that will do a 10bit LUT and a lot more monitors do this these days than in the past. That banding/gradients affects my work as colour is critical but I don't use functions in e.g. quadro/firepro so makes best sense to stick AMD or pascal.. Once you see it you never want to go back.
Most media however is 8 bit typically so it's not as noticeable.
But for my apps it is.

Hence I would only consider a pascal or better nvidia card if I ever do jump back, tempting as 980ti value is/was...

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Pre-pascal Nvidia dGPU does not support 10 bit outside of DX apps. Which means many non-gaming apps and that's from horses mouth.

But muh talking points, Nvidia bad, Nvidia BAD!

Lol.

Yeah, we knew that 10bit wasn't broadly supported by Nvidia on consumer GPUs: it also wasn't (and isn't!) needed by consumer apps, including most color work.

Which means that if you tried to use a 10bit monitor with a consumer Nvidia GPU, pre-Pascal, you forgot to RTFM.

And if you're using your ignorance to spread FUD? Well

 

[N4CR]

But muh talking points, Nvidia bad, Nvidia BAD!

Lol.

Yeah, we knew that 10bit wasn't broadly supported by Nvidia on consumer GPUs: it also wasn't (and isn't!) needed by consumer apps, including most color work.

Which means that if you tried to use a 10bit monitor with a consumer Nvidia GPU, pre-Pascal, you forgot to RTFM.

And if you're using your ignorance to spread FUD? Well

You missed the part where I said
>Most media however is 8 bit typically so it's not as noticeable.
>But for my apps it is.

I'm not meaning photoshop. I'm meaning programming lasers which have gamuts that make even OLED look pretty crap, so accurately setting/calibrating colours is pretty important for me. But I'm a minor use case. That said anything that is 10bit and not DX you would also notice it if you knew what you are looking for, e.g. OGL games or similar.
So I'm talking about certain use cases. In most cases you or I or others don't notice it. if you have a slight gradient background or large colour area you can though if you know what to look for.

That said, it was inexcusable when AMD gave that functionality to end users. Nvidia got enough flack and finally relented for Paxwell.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

You missed the part where I said

I didn't, I was actually criticizing someone else- you're in the clear, and I should have made that more clear, that's on me

Main point is, if you need it, you know, or you are at fault for lack of due diligence.

 

[N4CR]

I didn't, I was actually criticizing someone else- you're in the clear, and I should have made that more clear, that's on me

Main point is, if you need it, you know, or you are at fault for lack of due diligence.

Sorry! Thanks for clarifying.. was like 'jeepeers what's this guys' beef' lol. Have a good weekend

 

[ManofGod]

I love forums...you can go search up old threads...that debunk lies/ignorance:

https://hardforum.com/threads/a-real-test-of-nvidia-vs-amd-2d-image-quality.1694755/

And using more "digital vibrance" is like using "loudnes" in music....sheeps think "louder = better".
Those in the know...know better.

This thread has now become facts vs fuzzy-warm-feelings/ignorance....color me surprised

Only one person has claimed that digital vibrance bunk and it is not the "sheep" you claim them to be.

 

[ManofGod]

I didn't, I was actually criticizing someone else- you're in the clear, and I should have made that more clear, that's on me

Main point is, if you need it, you know, or you are at fault for lack of due diligence.

Nope, no amount of tweaking, moving, bashing or otherwise testing made any difference whatsoever, in what I am and was using. Fact is, in is inexcusable for something not to work right out of the box or even with tweaking for over $600. I will not be burned again, that is just the way it is for me.

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Nope, no amount of tweaking, moving, bashing or otherwise testing made any difference whatsoever, in what I am and was using. Fact is, in is inexcusable for something not to work right out of the box or even with tweaking for over $600. I will not be burned again, that is just the way it is for me.

You do realize that I didn't recommend any of those things, right?

It seems you didn't read what I wrote- just like you didn't RTFM before you spent $600 on card that wasn't spec'd to run 10-bit output

 

[ManofGod]

You do realize that I didn't recommend any of those things, right?

It seems you didn't read what I wrote- just like you didn't RTFM before you spent $600 on card that wasn't spec'd to run 10-bit output

Yeah, that's right, it is the consumers fault for expecting a $600+ video card to work on a $500 Samsung 28 Inch 4k TN panel monitor out of the box. That is entirely on Nvidia and I will not be burned by them again, just saying. (Personal use, not FUD in any way, shape, form or manor, just the facts and nothing else.) And no, washed out desktop experience is not working out of the box, deal with it.

Damn man, the Nvidia defenders are strong here. (You may or may not be one but.......)

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Yeah, that's right, it is the consumers fault for expecting a $600+ video card to work on a $500 Samsung 28 Inch 4k TN panel monitor out of the box. That is entirely on Nvidia and I will not be burned by them again, just saying. (Personal use, not FUD in any way, shape, form or manor, just the facts and nothing else.) And no, washed out desktop experience is not working out of the box, deal with it.

Damn man, the Nvidia defenders are strong here. (You may or may not be one but.......)

You seriously won't own up to your mistake, will you?

And you'd rather blame a company instead?

See, I'll buy whatever works- and I would have told you, given that it has been common knowledge for years, to buy an AMD consumer product if you want support for a feature needed only by a small fraction of professionals.

Or, you could have done the research yourself, so you wouldn't be called out for spreading FUD.

 

[ManofGod]

You seriously won't own up to your mistake, will you?

And you'd rather blame a company instead?

See, I'll buy whatever works- and I would have told you, given that it has been common knowledge for years, to buy an AMD consumer product if you want support for a feature needed only by a small fraction of professionals.

Or, you could have done the research yourself, so you wouldn't be called out for spreading FUD.

Oh, I clearly admitted my mistake, I bought an Nvidia 980 Ti when I should have bought the XFX R9 Fury that I originally planned on buying back in December of 2015. Thanks for the reminder, I will remember that going forward.

 

[pgaster]

I have all AMD hardware right now, (Ryzen, Radeon WX), but here is something from Nvidia in 2011:

Answer ID 3011
Updated 08/02/2011 08:29 AM
How can I enable 10-bit per color support (30-bit color) in my Geforce graphics card in programs such as Adobe Premiere Pro / Adobe Photoshop?

NVIDIA Geforce graphics cards have offered 10-bit per color out to a full screen Direct X surface since the Geforce 200 series GPUs. Due to the way most applications use traditional Windows API functions to create the application UI and viewport display, this method is not used for professional applications such as Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe Photoshop. These programs use OpenGL 10-bit per color buffers which require an NVIDIA Quadro GPU with DisplayPort connector. A small number of monitors support 10-bit per color with Quadro graphics cards over DVI. For more information on NVIDIA professional line of Quadro GPUs, please visit:

http://www.nvidia.com/page/workstation.html

---------

You can have your 10 bit color with Nvidia, you just needed to get the right card, which would be a Quadro. If you need the professional features you need to pony up for the professional cards.
The Quadro P1000 would do the trick at just over $300.
I just checked and even the old K620 would do 10 bit as well according to the spec sheets I saw at PNY.

 

[razor1]

You seriously won't own up to your mistake, will you?

And you'd rather blame a company instead?

See, I'll buy whatever works- and I would have told you, given that it has been common knowledge for years, to buy an AMD consumer product if you want support for a feature needed only by a small fraction of professionals.

Or, you could have done the research yourself, so you wouldn't be called out for spreading FUD.

he is a ManofGod, God makes no mistakes so he doesn't make any mistakes......

 

[ManofGod]

he is a ManofGod, God makes no mistakes so he doesn't make any mistakes......

Oh, I clearly admitted my mistake, I bought an Nvidia 980 Ti when I should have bought the XFX R9 Fury that I originally planned on buying back in December of 2015. Thanks for the reminder, I will remember that going forward.

 

[razor1]

Oh, I clearly admitted my mistake, I bought an Nvidia 980 Ti when I should have bought the XFX R9 Fury that I originally planned on buying back in December of 2015. Thanks for the reminder, I will remember that going forward.

That is not admitting to your mistake, you are still saying its the cards fault when its your inability to understand the settings.

Shifting blame is the new cool thing. What should someone think of a person that doesn't know how to use his $650 toy?

 

[ManofGod]

That is not admitting to your mistake, you are still saying its the cards fault when its your inability to understand the settings.

Shifting blame is the new cool thing. What should someone think of a person that doesn't know how to use his $650 toy?

I know, I know...... NVidia do no wrong! Admit it or do not admit it, it is no skin off of my back. I moved on to what works but hey, does not change the reality of the experience, regardless of what you say or "believe". And as to the original topic, I would say that is definitely good news.

 

[razor1]

I know, I know...... NVidia do no wrong! Admit it or do not admit it, it is no skin off of my back. I moved on to what works but hey, does not change the reality of the experience, regardless of what you say or "believe". And as to the original topic, I would say that is definitely good news.

I didn't say they can't do anything wrong, they felt those settings by default is good for their products, you feel AMD's settings by default is better, you PREFER AMD's products, didn't I say that before, think I did, "if you just admitted......" then there is no discussion.

Here ya go

 

[JustReason]

You seriously won't own up to your mistake, will you?

And you'd rather blame a company instead?

See, I'll buy whatever works- and I would have told you, given that it has been common knowledge for years, to buy an AMD consumer product if you want support for a feature needed only by a small fraction of professionals.

Or, you could have done the research yourself, so you wouldn't be called out for spreading FUD.

First, you are kinda jumping to conclusions. I don't think he knew of the issue so he wouldn't know to look for the info. In other words he wasn't looking for 10bit color. He didn't know to look nor does it seem he was aware if that was even the issue as we don't know if his monitor was 10bit. He only noticed the washed out color after buying the 980Ti.

I have seen this complaint over the last five years from switchers in both directions.

 

[razor1]

First, you are kinda jumping to conclusions. I don't think he knew of the issue so he wouldn't know to look for the info. In other words he wasn't looking for 10bit color. He didn't know to look nor does it seem he was aware if that was even the issue as we don't know if his monitor was 10bit. He only noticed the washed out color after buying the 980Ti.

I have seen this complaint over the last five years from switchers in both directions.

first search in google goes to tomshardware from that this link is there
or the second google link



https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/

There is no way he looked into the problem much.

This was the google seach

"why does nvidia colors looked washed out"

 

[ManofGod]

first search in google goes to tomshardware from that this link is there
or the second google link


I wasuusing display port over 4k 60hz.
https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/

There is no way he looked into the problem much.

This was the google seach

"why does nvidia colors looked washed out"

I am and was using display port 4k 60hz.

 

[razor1]

I am and was using display port 4k 60hz.

It can happen with display ports and at any resolution too.

Although this behaviour is typical for 1920 x 1080 (Full HD/1080p) displays connected by HDMI it occasionally applies to such displays connected by DisplayPort as well

right in the

How Nvidia GPUs handle the HDMI signal
The problem

section

 

[crazycrave]

Wait a min... them performance per watt fans will be here soon..


Really i get so tired of hearing about power useage, I first played with a GeForce 4 460Ti 64Mb card (2003) and the last thing on my mind was power useage but more of how can CPU/ GPU makers push gaming forward and Nvidia really has not offered much in tech as to push DX 12 to mainstream but more playing it safe with DX 11 titles.

Put your R&D (Nvidia) pushing forward as i have 950 watt powersupply and performance per-watt really mean little at this point as gaming has stalled out with AMD being the only forward dreamer as i want a gpu that plays games that my 290x can't and i am not talking 4K gaming but more complex trended gaming.

 

[ManofGod]

It can happen with display ports and at any resolution too.



right in the

How Nvidia GPUs handle the HDMI signal
The problem

section

Not relevant, I spent the 8 months I owned that card trying to fix it and it made little to no difference whatsoever! I have moved on because I wanted something that actually worked right the first time through the hardware itself, not something that a company expects others to fix for them.

 

[Sith'ari]

......................... I first played with a GeForce 4 460Ti 64Mb card (2003)........................

Just to clarify:
I assume that you mean GeForce4 Ti 4600. Because 460 was the GeForce4 MX model ( GeForce4 MX 460 )

 

[razor1]

Wait a min... them performance per watt fans will be here soon..


Really i get so tired of hearing about power useage, I first played with a GeForce 4 460Ti 64Mb card (2003) and the last thing on my mind was power useage but more of how can CPU/ GPU makers push gaming forward and Nvidia really has not offered much in tech as to push DX 12 to mainstream but more playing it safe with DX 11 titles.

Put your R&D (Nvidia) pushing forward as i have 950 watt powersupply and performance per-watt really mean little at this point as gaming has stalled out with AMD being the only forward dreamer as i want a gpu that plays games that my 290x can't and i am not talking 4K gaming but more complex trended gaming.

Perf/watt the better the ratio the more performance you can get as you push power up. Not the end user perf/watt, a company that is able to design a chip with better perf/watt has the possibility to push their chips performance up more with the same wattage vs a company that doesn't have as good of a perf/watt. Understand?

This is why we see the staggering difference in potential performance of nV vs AMD products. nV can do what AMD's products do at a much lower voltage, so even if AMD came out with a product, lets say 20% faster, nV doesn't need a whole new chip to take them on, they just create a increase voltage and frequency of the current chips (of course validation and all that comes into play, but when you have chips that easily clock 20% higher not much issue there).

Right now AMD can't even reach the third from the top chip without problems, what does that mean, nV could price the 1080ti to the moon too and put in a majorly overclocked 1080 which is a gp104, much smaller chip, increase its price and make more money then the crazy 60% margins they have now, making anything AMD possibly to come up with irrelevant, this can be a possibility for nV even when AMD uses 12nm with Vega.......

You want competition, you will wish for AMD to improve this part of their chips, otherwise there will be no competition.

Also if you think wattage doesn't matter, think about what OEM's want. It matters A LOT, maybe not to you but to companies that make systems, anywhere they can save money they will do it. A card that produces less heat (uses less wattage) is always beneficial, as the cooling and power components on an OEM system can be less expensive.

 

[razor1]

Not relevant, I spent the 8 months I owned that card trying to fix it and it made little to no difference whatsoever! I have moved on because I wanted something that actually worked right the first time through the hardware itself, not something that a company expects others to fix for them.

Yes for a person that doesn't read even after being linked to the specific problem at hand, I can see how those hundreds of different settings can be confusing

 

[ManofGod]

Yes for a person that doesn't read even after being linked to the specific problem at hand, I can see how those hundreds of different settings can be confusing

You keep going dude, after all, you know everything and no one else could possibly no anything otherwise. Oh well, I have hardware that works out of the box through hardware, Nvidia pushed that crap of hey, we could do it through hardware for you but hey, why should we since we are the king and monitor producers should bow to us. (At least my take on it, whether you agree or not does not matter.)

 

[Araxie]

performance per-watt really mean little at this point as gaming has stalled out with AMD being the only forward dreamer as i want a gpu that plays games that my 290x can't and i am not talking 4K gaming but more complex trended gaming.

Yeeeah.. DX12 aren't going to help that much with that.. some dreamers where expecting years ago that DX12 was going to save AMD bulldozer, same dreamers are saying today that DX12 will be the savior of AMD GCN..

But none of those dreamed understand that to the moment DX12 may offer anything relevant to a game complexity and visual upgrades all hardware today will be *obsolete* the same way Zen obsoleted bulldozer and today isn't anything relevant.. in two or three years we will be laughing at the GPU hardware today and then by that time we may have more complex game engines that may remotely have a positive effect from DX12.

Have you known of a modern game more CPU thread aware and CPU scaling than crysis 3? That at the same time add more visual fidelity and complexity than said game? that's an older DX11 game. Is not a problem of graphics API it's one of resources to develop a proper game engine.

 

[razor1]

You keep going dude, after all, you know everything and no one else could possibly no anything otherwise. Oh well, I have hardware that works out of the box through hardware, Nvidia pushed that crap of hey, we could do it through hardware for you but hey, why should we since we are the king and monitor producers should bow to us. (At least my take on it, whether you agree or not does not matter.)

you blamed the card, you should blame yourself after failing to understand where the problem was, you didn't and still don't know where it was. If its so hard to to go into your settings and turn on full color........ Pretty easy to do man. You and your hundreds of settings lol.

Both AMD and nV have their individual problems when it comes to this, both can be solved quite easily, if you knew where to look, google is your friend, its like a dog, you tell it what to find it will find it for you . Of course if you don't know what your doing that is a different story.... which in this case that is exactly what it is.

 

[ManofGod]

you blamed the card, you should blame yourself after failing to understand where the problem was, you didn't and still don't know where it was. If its so hard to to go into your settings and turn on full color........ Pretty easy to do man. You and your hundreds of settings lol.

Both AMD and nV have their individual problems when it comes to this, both can be solved quite easily, if you knew where to look, google is your friend, its like a dog, you tell it what to find it will find it for you . Of course if you don't know what your doing that is a different story.... which in this case that is exactly what it is.

I did exactly what needed to be done and like you inability to comprehend, it made no difference WHATSOEVER! LOL! Oh well, you keep trumping that green team flag, I will keep stating facts.

 

[thebufenator]

Shoot, did this switch from being an AMD forum to the shitposting forum?

 

[Pieter3dnow]

Yeeeah.. DX12 aren't going to help that much with that.. some dreamers where expecting years ago that DX12 was going to save AMD bulldozer, same dreamers are saying today that DX12 will be the savior of AMD GCN..

But none of those dreamed understand that to the moment DX12 may offer anything relevant to a game complexity and visual upgrades all hardware today will be *obsolete* the same way Zen obsoleted bulldozer and today isn't anything relevant.. in two or three years we will be laughing at the GPU hardware today and then by that time we may have more complex game engines that may remotely have a positive effect from DX12.

Have you known of a modern game more CPU thread aware and CPU scaling than crysis 3? That at the same time add more visual fidelity and complexity than said game? that's an older DX11 game. Is not a problem of graphics API it's one of resources to develop a proper game engine.

It is rather simple DX12 is something which Game Developers asked for. Your analogy on Bulldozer needed to be saved that was never going to happen maybe soften the blow IF more threads were supported.

DX12 can only be obsolete if there is some technical limitation clearly holding it back, haven't seen anything yet tho.

 

[Araxie]

It is rather simple DX12 is something which Game Developers asked for. Your analogy on Bulldozer needed to be saved that was never going to happen maybe soften the blow IF more threads were supported.

DX12 can only be obsolete if there is some technical limitation clearly holding it back, haven't seen anything yet tho.

hey, you were one of those saying bulldozer was amazing and the future with DX12 and intel would be put in shame because IPC wasn't going to be king in gaming anymore..

Bulldozer is not a bad chip performance wise Mantle proves this. It is bad because it did not sell it is so bad that AMD just made Piledriver revisions and never bothered updating the AM3+ platform.

For people with an AM3+ mainboard it is not a bad chip at all. It just does not perform very well in certain older benchmarks and with gaming it needs a new API to make it fly.

Using DX12/Vulkan or Mantle on games which use high batch count not to sure it will still be good value ....

You don't get it the multi core addressing GPU is important where you had _only_ 1 core talking to the GPU single thread performance was king....

The part where it relies on 1 core now is gone, AMD was always considered as having weak cores and this is where it will shine if you want to see some stats on this you can visit old AMD GPU14 day (oxide presentation) and it has some batch count numbers of certain cpu running star swarm under Mantle.

And to a degree you are right but on higher batch counts where AMD multiple cores are "better" suited for this so with DX12 the cores pretty much scale where Intel hyperthreading just is not good enough where it previously was considered "good".

That the graphics card does all the heavy lifting now everyone already knew but the part you are forgetting is rather important.....

Maybe this is a little bit hard to believe but comparing the cpu is not going to matter much.
Btw CaptNumbNutz AMD did not give up but the funds for closing the gap on Intel just were not available nor was there any decent plan to tackle this. Having said that Mantle does show people that when the API is not the limiting factor AMD can do well. on higher batch count games FX8350 (or better) can still be very worthwhile processor running Mantle DX12/Vulkan games.

As more engines switch to DX12/Mantle/Vulkan then it is bound to the number of cores you have on your processor. And of course the features have to be in the engine for support.
This is why it matters little, soon most if not all big titles will support this.

This is somewhat upsetting you quoting this as DX12 performance which is rather silly because there is no DX12 performance since every game tends to use a different engine and the performance you see now should not even come close to what it will be later this year hoping that in gaming I3 will have a place at all.

As soon as there are more games you will find this out the hard way and people with an older FX-8350 will be still enjoying performance on their cpu for the next 2 years still ...
Soon as Frostbyte 4 games appear you be sure to post any DX12/Vulkan I3 benchmarks..

You are thinking that all of the benchmarks are correct an I3 is faster, I'm saying that an I3 is a waste of space because when it comes to scaling an I3 is not going to scale with anything that does serious amount of batches or have a decent enough multi threading that it could cope with advanced DX12/Vulkan engines

To make the point again DX11 does not allow multi threading in the same way DX12 does where DX11 craps out at around 5 cores gaming engines using DX12 to the fullest will allow much greater scaling (as seen in the Mantle video). There was no incentive for game developers to do serious multi threading because of that ...

This was a funny thread

AMD's take on benchmarks

 

[ManofGod]

hey, you were one of those saying bulldozer was amazing and the future with DX12 and intel would be put in shame because IPC wasn't going to be king in gaming anymore..
















This was a funny thread

AMD's take on benchmarks

The new API's did help with AMD's FX cpu's and I could still be playing on them if I had wanted to wait another year. However, single core DX11 games would still be held back. (Crysis 3 was a good example of multi core support though.) There is also a ton of tweaks that can be done to bring FX performance up but, you also have to have a good chip and board to do so. However, now, purchasing that platform would not be worth it, except to have fun and also, it is darn near impossible to buy it anymore, anyways.

 

[Araxie]

The new API's did help with AMD's FX cpu's and I could still be playing on them if I had wanted to wait another year. However, single core DX11 games would still be held back. (Crysis 3 was a good example of multi core support though.) There is also a ton of tweaks that can be done to bring FX performance up but, you also have to have a good chip and board to do so. However, now, purchasing that platform would not be worth it, except to have fun and also, it is darn near impossible to buy it anymore, anyways.

Exactly and that's exactly my point all of these years.. thanks for see it and agree, to the moment DX12 brings "the thing" to the gaming market and become "the thing" and "the future" all today and modern hardware will be obsolete.. you buy tech to enjoy the performance today not to enjoy the performance 5 years later of your purchase.. to the moment DX12 bring anything relevant to the market both your CPU and GPU will be obsoleted by new and more powerful hardware able to juice perfectly whatever DX12 can make, that time is not now.. I wasn't wrong when I said to the moment bulldozer can be useful under dx12 it will be already replaced and it was true, already replaced by Zen.. and the same will hold true for today GPUS and even for today CPUS.

 

[razor1]

Exactly and that's exactly my point all of these years.. thanks for see it and agree, to the moment DX12 brings "the thing" to the gaming market and become "the thing" and "the future" all today and modern hardware will be obsolete.. you buy tech to enjoy the performance today not to enjoy the performance 5 years later of your purchase.. to the moment DX12 bring anything relevant to the market both your CPU and GPU will be obsoleted by new and more powerful hardware able to juice perfectly whatever DX12 can make, that time is not now.. I wasn't wrong when I said to the moment bulldozer can be useful under dx12 it will be already replaced and it was true, already replaced by Zen.. and the same will hold true for today GPUS and even for today CPUS.

I agree with all that but a person buying at a certain time should always buy the best available products of the money they are willing to spend. All those people that bought 8 core FX's thinking it was going to make a difference at such a low cost, just got bumped off the road with a 2 core Intel and still getting screwed today.

Every generation of products creates room for programmers to push their software more, so if there is more IPC, they will push that, if their is more from multi threading they will push that. But proper multi threaded engines are hard to do, because of the nature of current programming models in graphics. Until programmers shift out of their paradigms, which always takes time, having high IPC cores is a better way to go.