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Solution to piracy?

I

IdiotCow

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
307
If you make it so that games need activation, the pirates will get around it. If you need the DVD in to play, the pirates will STILL get around it.

But, if you give us achievements, online co-op, live matchmaking, etc... then people have to buy the games. I think the windows Live gamercard is the answer... make it so you play "online" in single player mode, and the game checks in with a server every so often - updating stats and giving information (and oh, by the way, making sure the game is legit)

No big deal... and it makes the game MORE fun for the user. (I'm addicted to my GoW achievements - and now am looking at a 360 just because there are so FEW achievement tracking games for vista)
 
That's the problem, most people dont want to sign into anything or be on the net to play a single player game. They also do not want spyware on the computer.
 
unless I'm mistaken live games run the live client through the game. (I could be wrong)

for instance, I fire up gears of war, and my live account is automatically logged in so I can play multiplayer and it can track my achievements.

I'm 100% against spyware, but this is a different beast altogether. I hate spyware because it tracks my internet activities, slows down my computer, and potentially leaves me open to other malicious software. This is a PART of the game, and it only tracks what I do in the game - mainly because I want it to! Once the game is closed, it's gone... no trouble.

It's not using much bandwidth either. It updates when you achieve certain things, and polls to see if your friends are online, etc... Probably the same as leaving your IM running...

If I had to choose a copy protection system, I would want the one that gives me extra content - vs the one that either limits how many times I can install a game, or bungs up my computer with a bunch of spyware/malware
 
Want to lower piracy? Lower the prices on your games. Provide content that makes me want to support you. Remove all technical antipiracy protection. Develop cross platform. Don't lock me into anything. I don't want your permission to run what I paid for. I don't want a content distribution system that runs in the background all the time, that makes sure that I'm legit.

Check out savage2.s2games.com for a great example of how this system works. Client is free. CD key costs $30. Install anywhere, anytime. Works on Linux too. Stardock is another great company - Price their games reasonably, no copy protection, and people choose to buy them because they ask politely and provide a quality product.
 
Xaeos said:
Want to lower piracy? Lower the prices on your games. Provide content that makes me want to support you. Remove all technical antipiracy protection. Develop cross platform. Don't lock me into anything. I don't want your permission to run what I paid for. I don't want a content distribution system that runs in the background all the time, that makes sure that I'm legit.

Check out savage2.s2games.com for a great example of how this system works. Client is free. CD key costs $30. Install anywhere, anytime. Works on Linux too. Stardock is another great company - Price their games reasonably, no copy protection, and people choose to buy them because they ask politely and provide a quality product.
Click to expand...

Amen to that . Lack of copy protection has made so many of us happy that we dont have Bioshock/Mass effect DRM issues that people are currently facing. Bloatware + Games we want to love shouldn't go hand in hand these days and copy protection scheme's like starforce are responsible for part of this industry's slow down ..not allowing people to back up there rightfuly owned games is a choice of the consumer not the industry that is driven by the consumer. I think various issue like in the DMCA that are just terrible to us consumers and really shield the companys and force there concepts of what happens when you put out 50 dollars for what they believe is still there property even after you take it home and play it.

According to congress , game companys and publishers everyone of us (consumers) is a stealing , pirating piece of shit that without these digital rights managers in place would never purchase a legal copy of a video game ever again which is a strait up slap in the face to anyone that spends there hard earned cash on video games per month (like me or any of you) and the fact that we are treated like criminals without just or rightful cause is disgusting. Legally none of us own our video games .. we own of a copy which rightfuly belongs to the developer/publishers legal property and is hence forth subject to any whim they wish to enforce upon us period.

There use to be a time when games were made by a group of guys and brought down to a local computer shop where they were posted on a backboard with a tack and for a nominal fee and after you bought it ..guess what? IT WAS YOURS to do with as you wish as long as you didn't pirate the software and for a long time this process was respected and worked well (more so since the internet wasnt open to the general public around this time). Now when you walk into a video game branded store you are sold basicly and crudley a contract which says you have a right to play this game but you have zero rights otherwise to store it for instance (such as a virtual image) in a manner that will not lend its-self to piracy but to the owners own personal conditions or reasons.

My rant aside , it comes down to this, publishers and law makers need to treat us with respect as any consumer diserves not as outright future criminals that need exact a swift treatment of justice with a balant disregard for there personal rights of property. Once we get the right bill that makes alot more sense then the DMCA then we will be off to a good start. Until then nothing will change.
 
And whoever purchases the game and wishes to play would need to have their PC connected to the internet. Not a good idea and pirates will probably still find a way.
 
Egad, that's the last thing I need is my games requiring an internet connection. What BS. Not everyone has or wants an internet connection at home. I didn't have one until about a year ago when I moved in with my GF; she couldn't live without one. I just didn't care to either 1) pay $15 or so for crappy dial-up or 2) pay $45 or more for cable/dsl. At $45/month, I'd rather have the $540/year in hand for upgrades and other stuff rather than to verify my games aren't pirated and get free porn.
 
Valve and EA have it figured out.

CS:S, firstly is cheap enough to buy easily, and secondly you have to have it attached to a Steam account for it to work.

BF2 and 2142, sure there are pirated copies of the game, but they are worthless as you can't play online with them.

If I have to cooperate to help cut back on piracy, so be it, I will. I love PC gaming and I buy my games and so should everyone else. Bioshock... OMG that was so bad, gosh darn it, my friends couldn't borrow my copy. Dang-it.
 
Some of it is also peace of mind for these massive corporations. Yes it would be nice if they would just trust us. But trust is not something you can quantify to a shareholder. My point was also not that you HAVE to be online to use it. Just that you have to be online to use the EXTRAS such as achievements, multiplay, and maybe some additional content. (maybe some exclusive downloadable content)

My main point is that if we have to deal with copy protection, dont make it hurt. Give us stuff that makes the experience better.

Bioshock/Mass Effect are the wrong way. Live and Steam are the way to have us not care that there is DRM. In fact, I'm *more* likely to buy a LIVE enabled game, just for the achievements ^_^
 
Some people still do not have a constant Internet connection.

I like what they are doing with Spore. Where the CDkey is checked all the time. So far, I have yet to see cracks for the creature creature, great thing.

Live was awful at first for me. GOW wasn't working properly, didn't even allow me to login :(.
 
refraxion said:
That's the problem, most people dont want to sign into anything or be on the net to play a single player game. They also do not want spyware on the computer.
Click to expand...

they dont have to bro, just buy a 360 and you are set...it makes all of that seamless...no really...it does!! if you dont have an internet connection, guess what...sooner or later you will if you are a gamer, if you are so against it, go get cash turned to quarters and go to the arcade..... i dont mind paying for games like the 360 has because of the value as a whole
 
There is no solution to piracy. Piracy will take over. No matter what, it will get hacked and cracked.
 
The solution to piracy is making games that're worth buying. There's a strong correlation between the frequency with which a game is pirated, and how generic and uninspired it is.
 
IdiotCow said:
If you make it so that games need activation, the pirates will get around it. If you need the DVD in to play, the pirates will STILL get around it.

But, if you give us achievements, online co-op, live matchmaking, etc... then people have to buy the games. I think the windows Live gamercard is the answer... make it so you play "online" in single player mode, and the game checks in with a server every so often - updating stats and giving information (and oh, by the way, making sure the game is legit)

No big deal... and it makes the game MORE fun for the user. (I'm addicted to my GoW achievements - and now am looking at a 360 just because there are so FEW achievement tracking games for vista)
Click to expand...

Not true. You can make Xbox achievments with pirated copies of game too without any problems (except risk of ban for your console but with 4-5 games costing more than x360 arcade not that huge problem).
If you don't belive- MS banned few thousands of users who made GTA IV achievments before game was officialy released.

And getting your x-box modded to accept "safety copies" costs <15 euro here.
 
The best deterrent to piracy so far has been making a big ass game that uses a full dual layer dvd. A lot of people just say screw it and go buy the game when their 8.5gb download is going 15k/s.
 
Solution to piracy?

Is to buy the product, perfect solution if you ask me.
 
Wally said:
The solution to piracy is making games that're worth buying. There's a strong correlation between the frequency with which a game is pirated, and how generic and uninspired it is.
Click to expand...

Completely agree. Counterstrike has been retail for what, 8 years now, and people are still buying accounts. The fact is that when a game is good enough to buy, people will buy it.
 
Wally said:
The solution to piracy is making games that're worth buying. There's a strong correlation between the frequency with which a game is pirated, and how generic and uninspired it is.
Click to expand...

That isn't the solution, per se, it'll keep it down though, I believe. I mean, if you make a game that is worth buying, people'll buy it.Not everyone, but lots will.
 
I agree with the others, no matter what they do someone will crack it just because they feel the need to prove it can be done. I also think that it is pretty stupid to crack alot of the multiplayer games as you cant play on most servers without a valid key. However games like Doom 3 that had good single player action will be cracked to play it. About a year ago I made a pledge to myself, I would no longer be a part in pirating software and have gone 100% legit, I got tired of risking my computer to viruses and the wrath of the MPAA and jumping thru hoops to keep my system running. just aint worth it, its alot easier to be legit and I have a better piece of mind.
 
Diablo2K said:
I agree with the others, no matter what they do someone will crack it just because they feel the need to prove it can be done. I also think that it is pretty stupid to crack alot of the multiplayer games as you cant play on most servers without a valid key. However games like Doom 3 that had good single player action will be cracked to play it. About a year ago I made a pledge to myself, I would no longer be a part in pirating software and have gone 100% legit, I got tired of risking my computer to viruses and the wrath of the MPAA and jumping thru hoops to keep my system running. just aint worth it, its alot easier to be legit and I have a better piece of mind.
Click to expand...

no offence but nowadays its a lot easier to be none legit. not trying to promote piracy but masss effect and bioshock are prime examples of that. why be limited with installs and DRM crap when you can simply download a cracked copy without no DRM and can install it has many times as you want?
 
jonneymendoza said:
no offence but nowadays its a lot easier to be none legit. not trying to promote piracy but masss effect and bioshock are prime examples of that. why be limited with installs and DRM crap when you can simply download a cracked copy without no DRM and can install it has many times as you want?
Click to expand...

I guess this is my point more than anything else. By making it harder to play the game legitimately (regardless of whether or not it is has hindered piracy of the game) you do nothing to slow illegal copies of your game.

Instead, if you cause people to have to risk getting caught trying to use your premium content (only available to true authorized users of the game). They will say it's too much hassle and buy the game.

Sure a small fraction of people will say the single play (w/out achievements/extra content) is enough, and will still pirate. But those ppl are going to get around whatever other measures are put in place, so it is really hard to account for them in any sort of anti-piracy plan.

Also, as for the 360 bans - XBOX doesn't use cd keys... so it's harder to track who is playing which copy of the game. Using this method I think a cdkey should be tied to an account (with some sort of "unregister" method to allow you to re-sell)...

The main reason I bring all of this up is because I think companies (and there ARE people who work for them around here) need to see that there are better ways to do DRM than to mess up our machines with spyware/activation crap. Companies at this juncture are demanding some form of DRM, and they can choose to lock everything down so we have to call in every time we reformat our PC, or they can give us some extra content so we are happy and their product is still protected (at least somewhat) from piracy.

Just looking for a win-win here.
 
Start chopping fingers off of people that steal? Many PC gamers won't have any digits left!
 
I understand what you are mostly saying IdiotCow. I agree too. I like LIVE enabled games because they do add to my gamerscore, keeps track of when I beat games and it relates to my 360 of course. I like Steam games too. Even though these games might be single player with no multiplayer attachment, there is some sort of reward or benefit that outweighs the "inconvience" of activating online.

I think what needs to happen is just standardization. I think when EA, 2K, and now Atari do there own sperate thing, it becomes a mess. While I personally don't have a problem with it, I can see the other side of the argument on not liking it. Problem is, all these companies are most likely not going to just say "lets use Steam and Games for Windows Live" as an option.
 
answer to piracy = steam. With the encrypted files are people able to hax0r games that are delivered through steam? I was thinking it doesn't happen much. If PC games switch to steam only instead of in stores this could be a good solution. plus steam ownz
 
JonnyK said:
answer to piracy = steam. With the encrypted files are people able to hax0r games that are delivered through steam? I was thinking it doesn't happen much. If PC games switch to steam only instead of in stores this could be a good solution. plus steam ownz
Click to expand...

Problem is Steam needs to be standardized too. Look at Bioshock.
 
JonnyK said:
answer to piracy = steam. With the encrypted files are people able to hax0r games that are delivered through steam? I was thinking it doesn't happen much. If PC games switch to steam only instead of in stores this could be a good solution. plus steam ownz
Click to expand...

Steam games are instantly cracked.

Providing good service, updates, and quality games with lots of appeal is what makes Valve successful.

Providing ongoing updates, and online play is the way to go. Reward legitimate purchasers. The way Battlenet, Steam, and Stardock do.
 
what happened after 9/11? airports stepped up security, made checkpoints more stringent.

ISPs are like airports, and they need security checkpoints, or rather the routers need to analyze packets, and some new protocols need to be made so that content needs to pass checks before it makes it to your PC.

how can you play a pirated game if your ISP's router won't let the packets through to you? Or maybe it does let it through, and you are flagged, ISP has your address, and you get prosecuted. It sounds extreme and I'm not saying I'm gung-ho about this idea, but increased security is the only solution to piracy.
 
damonposey said:
what happened after 9/11? airports stepped up security, made checkpoints more stringent.

ISPs are like airports, and they need security checkpoints, or rather the routers need to analyze packets, and some new protocols need to be made so that content needs to pass checks before it makes it to your PC.

how can you play a pirated game if your ISP's router won't let the packets through to you? Or maybe it does let it through, and you are flagged, ISP has your address, and you get prosecuted. It sounds extreme and I'm not saying I'm gung-ho about this idea, but increased security is the only solution to piracy.
Click to expand...

And what happens when they screw it up and get it wrong, start squeezing out people for being suspected pirates.... it's a slippery slope.

Restricting freedoms <> security.
 
Some of us live in an area with no option BUT dial-up. I can't be connected to the internet at all times, and I dont want to spend 3 minutes connecting to the internet and having a game take another 3 minutes to authenticate my game before allowing me to play by myself. I can live with a single authentication like with Bioshock. It is easy to give them a call when you need to disable an install so you can re-install.

Steam has it right. Has anyone been able to pirate a steam required game?

I have actually refused to buy games that require me to be online to play. I didn't buy any of the MS games like Halo2, or Gears of War for this reason, and I really wanted Battlefield 2142 but it requires you log into your BF account to play... screw that, I will just refuse to buy your game.
 
vicaphit said:
Some of us live in an area with no option BUT dial-up. I can't be connected to the internet at all times, and I dont want to spend 3 minutes connecting to the internet and having a game take another 3 minutes to authenticate my game before allowing me to play by myself. I can live with a single authentication like with Bioshock. It is easy to give them a call when you need to disable an install so you can re-install.

Steam has it right. Has anyone been able to pirate a steam required game?

I have actually refused to buy games that require me to be online to play. I didn't buy any of the MS games like Halo2, or Gears of War for this reason, and I really wanted Battlefield 2142 but it requires you log into your BF account to play... screw that, I will just refuse to buy your game.
Click to expand...

Amen! I can live with the one time activation, but requiring me to be online to play a SP game is not good.

Steam games have been pirated.
 
Reading through most of the threads that come up on these issues, I see a lot of people that are overly dramatic because it's cool to hate various protection methods utilized by game producers, for whatever reason.

I purchased Bioshock and Mass Effect and both times I had no issues with the activation that either game required. Although the methods utilized by either one can be criticized relatively easy, I personally had no issues.

With that said, many of you do have legitimate concerns. Some of you don't have constant internet connections, some of you don't have it at all. Some are concerned about DRM, "spyware", or "not being able to play a game you own." You own a software license to use the game under the conditions that are specified. If you don't like it, that doesn't entitle you to download it, as so many seem to think, no matter how unreasonable the activation process.

Just as many things, there isn't a perfect solution to piracy. You will always have piracy and you will always have some percentage of a negatively affected consumer base.

I don't know of a protection system that hasn't been cracked, except for some multiplayer games, and monthly pay games. I am simply for whatever (reasonable) protection scheme keeps PC games in development and on store shelves. In some best selling games, this has been no protection at all.
 
damonposey said:
what happened after 9/11? airports stepped up security, made checkpoints more stringent.

ISPs are like airports, and they need security checkpoints, or rather the routers need to analyze packets, and some new protocols need to be made so that content needs to pass checks before it makes it to your PC.
Click to expand...

That's a good comparison, especially since airport security is still just as worthless as it was before and only presents the illusion of security to those idiots who will believe in it, as well as inconveniencing legitimate travelers. (Oh hey, just like the game industry and piracy!)

There is no surefire way to prevent piracy, but when your only action is to hurt legitimate users of your content, there is a serious problem. I don't mind unobtrusive legitimacy checks (another <3 for Steam), but the moment they impede my enjoyment of the purchased product, they can screw themselves.
 
cd keys. I have never figured this out.
I see cd key generators everywhere. IF the company knows what keys it has then how the hell can a generator work?
It can't.
These idiots are not keeping track of anything and then blame piracy for everything.

COD4 single player, that is what the piracy was about not online where they check the keys or do they?


Take BF2 I had to register and create an account before playing. Can they do that with a key generator? They shouldn't but since I don't work for them I dont know.
But really they sell key 1 1111 11 and NOT 2 2222 2222 then if you try to play with that number you shouldn't be able to.

Steam I sure don't want to boot up HL2 and oh my internet is screwed up, or their servers are down for maintance...cant play, well maybe tomorrow.


Take out all single play and might as well do something else, hell the hacks have ruined all the online play anyway.
 
Belgain Roffles said:
That's a good comparison, especially since airport security is still just as worthless as it was before and only presents the illusion of security to those idiots who will believe in it, as well as inconveniencing legitimate travelers. (Oh hey, just like the game industry and piracy!)
Click to expand...

it does inconvenience legitimate travelers yes, but that's inevitable.

question for you though, if you think its worthless, then would you be content using an airline that had no security checks whatsoever? I mean hell, the security is just an illusion anyway right?
 
damonposey said:
it does inconvenience legitimate travelers yes, but that's inevitable.

question for you though, if you think its worthless, then would you be content using an airline that had no security checks whatsoever? I mean hell, the security is just an illusion anyway right?
Click to expand...

I never said security in general is pointless as that is obviously not the case. I was however saying that the current state of security is worthless and being that way does nothing but provide inconvenience to the end users, and that is exactly the case with the state of a lot of PC game DRM.
 
Belgain Roffles said:
I never said security in general is pointless as that is obviously not the case. I was however saying that the current state of security is worthless and being that way does nothing but provide inconvenience to the end users, and that is exactly the case with the state of a lot of PC game DRM.
Click to expand...

Ok, you're talking about current copy protection on games. no ones going to argue with you there. It's obviously not the way to combat piracy. That's why I'm just throwing this new idea out there.

I don't even know enough about internet protocols and packets to suggest a complete idea of what I'm talking about. Like I said before I just see ISPs as airports, but with no security in place. people do what they want, get what they want, and these legitimate ISPs channel the illegal content onto peoples computers, no questions asked. It just seems like digital anarchy, and I think as we realize this, the general progression of countermeasures against piracy will be to institute some sort of order on an ISP or backbone level.
 
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