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So, Yonah is fast?

coldpower27 said:
The price structure on Yonah is different, it won't suck if it costs more then AMD's X2 or Turion 64 line as they aren't competitors anyway. Like it has been said this is a Laptop chip, to get the same performance with more battery life will cost you a premium, plus it's Intel which can get away with charging higher anyway. :p

2.17GHZ 637US
2.00GHZ 423US
1.83GHZ 294US
1.67GHZ 241US


AMD Opteron 170 367US
AMD Opteron 165 278US

AMD Athlon 64x2 3800+ 328US

AMD Turion 64x2 ???
Click to expand...

If those prices hold up, I'm not touching it :D

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
If those prices hold up, I'm not touching it :D

Donnie27
Click to expand...

Since a 1.6GHz Dothan is still $200, I'd expect those prices to hold up a long time.
 
Josh_B said:
Yes, but AMD employs many of the Alpha's designers. ;)

http://news.com.com/Intel+hyperthreading+shows+Digital+roots/2163-1001_3-961495.html
Click to expand...

And some pretty good Ex; IBM, Motorolla and of course Intel employees as well, so? Even Dirk Meyer worked for Intel. LOL! Mr. Ruiz himself was STOLEN from Motorolla and AMD Paid them 10 million to stay out of court. They signed an agreement NOT to steal Moto's staff that partnered with them. So much for trust uh?

Hell, Intel built some Alphas for DEC.

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
And some pretty good Ex; IBM, Motorolla and of course Intel employees as well, so? Even Dirk Meyer worked for Intel. LOL! Mr. Ruiz himself was STOLEN from Motorolla and AMD Paid them 10 million to stay out of court. They signed an agree NOT to steal Moto's staff that partnered with them. So much for trust uh?

Hell, Intel built some Alphas for DEC.

Donnie27
Click to expand...

Sounds like these guys go where the money leads them. ;)

(Not that they aren't talented and passionate, but hey...)
 
Josh_B said:
Sounds like these guys go where the money leads them. ;)

(Not that they aren't talented and passionate, but hey...)
Click to expand...

Top heavy pay scales is also seen as nagative to everyone but the top Guys LOL! Passion has little or nothing to do with it.

Donnie27
 
robberbaron said:
Since a 1.6GHz Dothan is still $200, I'd expect those prices to hold up a long time.
Click to expand...

I'm certainly NOT disappointed in Yonah's performance Clock for Clock. I'am disappointed in the Socket change, premium prices for yet another Socket chipset changed, No VT, no 64bit and most importantly the stupid prices. Folks can argue about 3DBungholimarks to the Cows come home.

AMD fans should be pissed as well because now AMD has NO reason to cut prices of X2. Note that 3800+ had went down to $289 (OEM). After Intel annouced Yonah prices, go back to pricewatch now?

Donnie27
 
Donnie27 said:
I'm certainly NOT disappointed in Yonah's performance Clock for Clock. I'am disappointed in the Socket change, premium prices for yet another Socket chipset changed, No VT, no 64bit and most importantly the stupid prices. Folks can argue about 3DBungholimarks to the Cows come home.

AMD fans should be pissed as well because now AMD has NO reason to cut prices of X2. Note that 3800+ had went down to $289 (OEM). After Intel annouced Yonah prices, go back to pricewatch now?

Donnie27
Click to expand...

I don't get why the upset over the prices? This is a laptop chip, and those numbers have little to no meaning. OEMs and ODMs get the equipment at an agreed upon price, that usually is MUCH below retail. These chips are really never designed to be sold to the public, except to replace/upgrade parts in a $2500+ Laptop. Now granted, there is a market for these outside of lappys, but that market is SO small that Craig Barret might just get to supersize his lunch from those profits. :D Also, you have to realize that these prices will replace money for the R&D of these chips and by extention Merom/Conroe. You always see this when the latest and greatest come out. Most of that high prices is just to break even, where the middle to the end of a products lifespan is where they make money. Seriously, wait until the DESKTOP processors pricing before you jump to any conclusions. I would imagine that conroe will be right in line with every other desktop chip in regards to pricing.
 
Donnie27 said:
I'm certainly NOT disappointed in Yonah's performance Clock for Clock. I'am disappointed in the Socket change, premium prices for yet another Socket chipset changed, No VT, no 64bit and most importantly the stupid prices. Folks can argue about 3DBungholimarks to the Cows come home.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I would gladly buy one, except for the reasons above. I NEED virtualization. Any new chip I buy has to have it... (I need to run Windows XP and Fedora 4 concurrently.)

How can Intel promote this CPU as being "next generation" when it doesn't include x86_64?
 
Josh_B said:
How can Intel promote this CPU as being "next generation" when it doesn't include x86_64?
Click to expand...

They have a yonah in 64bit, it's called merom and it'll be out shortly after Yonah. Jesus, if Intel waited and released Merom and forgot about Yonah you'd be bitching that they were taking too long. Seriously, do you think that 64bit is a priority for the mobile market? It's not. The fact of the matter is that Merom will probably not sell that well unless it's priced the same as Yonah. They are both GREAT performers in a LAPTOP! The fact that it holds it's own in the desktop realm is just a benefit. Oh... and they can call it next generation because it has more cache and is dual core.
 
Josh_B said:
Exactly.

I would gladly buy one, except for the reasons above. I NEED virtualization. Any new chip I buy has to have it... (I need to run Windows XP and Fedora 4 concurrently.)

How can Intel promote this CPU as being "next generation" when it doesn't include x86_64?
Click to expand...


64-bit isn't a big deal even in the desktop market, I mean, the major chips all have it, but nothing actually needs it now, and the performance gains are minimal to non-existant. VT would have been cool, but again, it is an incredibly niche feature... how many people do you know who have to run VMWare on their laptops?

Dual core is the major benefit, and the biggest deal next-generation chip feature. It would have been cool if it supported HT as well, but maybe we'll have to wait for Merom before they can figure a way to work that back into the design. Also, that is why their _had_ to be a new socket, you can't take a socket that was designed with no plans for dual core support, and then suddenly start tossing dual core chips into it.
 
IMHO, HT doesn't provide much benefit to dual core cpus, at least as we stand today.
 
jebo_4jc said:
IMHO, HT doesn't provide much benefit to dual core cpus, at least as we stand today.
Click to expand...

The problem is with the software which isn't capable to handle 4 threads....not with HT per see...
 
I agree with Jebo, the exclusion of HT is a good thing. I remember reading an article that showed that HT actually has an adverse affect on dual core chips.
 
savantu said:
The problem is with the software which isn't capable to handle 4 threads....not with HT per see...
Click to expand...
That's exactly right.
Devs are behind enough as it is, optimizing for 2 threads. IIRC HT hurts performance on "background" apps. As in, if you are encoding a movie in the background and gaming in the foreground, the movie encoding will suffer because HT adversely gives the foreground priority, even if it's not needed (I'm not explaining it 100% right, but the truth is something along these lines).
I would be interested to see some benchies with the 955XE or whatever the new dual core XE chip is, with an app that is optimized for 4 threads.
 
Donnie27 said:
I'm certainly NOT disappointed in Yonah's performance Clock for Clock. I'am disappointed in the Socket change, premium prices for yet another Socket chipset changed, No VT, no 64bit and most importantly the stupid prices. Folks can argue about 3DBungholimarks to the Cows come home.

AMD fans should be pissed as well because now AMD has NO reason to cut prices of X2. Note that 3800+ had went down to $289 (OEM). After Intel annouced Yonah prices, go back to pricewatch now?

Donnie27
Click to expand...

My 2.4C has higher 3dBungholimarks that POS Yonah :p
 
Poncho said:
They have a yonah in 64bit, it's called merom and it'll be out shortly after Yonah. Jesus, if Intel waited and released Merom and forgot about Yonah you'd be bitching that they were taking too long. Seriously, do you think that 64bit is a priority for the mobile market? It's not. The fact of the matter is that Merom will probably not sell that well unless it's priced the same as Yonah. They are both GREAT performers in a LAPTOP! The fact that it holds it's own in the desktop realm is just a benefit. Oh... and they can call it next generation because it has more cache and is dual core.
Click to expand...
Actually, Merom is not Yonah. They are different things. Merom is scheduled to have twice the performance/watt that Yonah has and that says a lot.
 
Duke3d87 said:
Actually, Merom is not Yonah. They are different things. Merom is scheduled to have twice the performance/watt that Yonah has and that says a lot.
Click to expand...
atta way to correct an intel employee... :p

twice the performance per watt of yonah would be quite a feat, in fact that would put it under the dothan in terms of power consumption... something that is definatly not going to happen at 65nm and dual core.
 
wait, whose the intel employee? I'm lost and feel stupid now :D

Got my info from Winikepedia which apparently got the info from Intel:

"Intel expects to launch the Merom core in the third quarter of 2006. Merom will use Intel's Next Generation Microarchitecture, a microarchitecture that is different from today's Pentium M and Pentium 4, but features some characteristics of both. While little is known about Merom, Intel has revealed that it is a dual core processor supporting Vanderpool Virtualization Technology and EM64T, which is Intel's name for AMD64.

According to Intel, Merom's design places emphasis on both high performance and low power consumption. On a performance per watt basis, Intel claims Merom will outperform Yonah by a 2-1 margin. Ultra low voltage Merom chips will consume as little as 0.5W of power, enabling ultra portable laptops to have battery lives in the tens of hours."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_M
 
Poncho is an Intel employee. He has used both Merom and Yonah, although iirc, he is currently working on sossaman (yonah based xeon)

i seroiusly doubt that Merom will actually be able to pull that off, as its Conroe brethren have been quoted at ~60w recently.
 
lithium726 said:
Poncho is an Intel employee. He has used both Merom and Yonah, although iirc, he is currently working on sossaman (yonah based xeon)

i seroiusly doubt that Merom will actually be able to pull that off, as its Conroe brethren have been quoted at ~60w recently.
Click to expand...
ok that I didn't know. I was wondering how he had screenshots of Conroe. And you're talking about a laptop chip vs. a desktop chip. My guess is that Merom will significantly outperform Merom and Conroe significantly outperform Merom and Pentium D's b/c of it's higher efficienty, FSB, and tweaks.
 
dude, conroe is based directly on merom.

netburst (ie, the p4) dies with presler and cedar mill.
 
They are different chips (yonah and Merom) my earlier comments were a bit tounge in cheek. My apologies, I had a rough morning. :D Here's the basics..... Yonah will release on the 945GM chipset, Q1 IIRC, while Merom will become available in Q3. Yes, they are different chips, but not so much like going from P4 to Conroe. Also, you have to realize that while Merom MIGHT release on 945GM, it is really designed for 965GM (not sure if it's going to be called that). So I would imagine that you'll see a semi watered down version of Merom, unless there is 1066FSB support in 945GM. Not sure, all the Meroms that I used were of the 800FSB flavor, though they did have 4mb cache. I don't know what the roadmap for the mobile 965 chipset is, though i would imagin you'll see it early next year. But I can say this.... the Merom and Yonah version that i used were fairly similar in performance, that is usage NOT benchmarks, but Merom was a bit faster feeling.
 
Poncho said:
They are different chips (yonah and Merom) my earlier comments were a bit tounge in cheek. My apologies, I had a rough morning. :D Here's the basics..... Yonah will release on the 945GM chipset, Q1 IIRC, while Merom will become available in Q3. Yes, they are different chips, but not so much like going from P4 to Conroe. Also, you have to realize that while Merom MIGHT release on 945GM, it is really designed for 965GM (not sure if it's going to be called that). So I would imagine that you'll see a semi watered down version of Merom, unless there is 1066FSB support in 945GM. Not sure, all the Meroms that I used were of the 800FSB flavor, though they did have 4mb cache. I don't know what the roadmap for the mobile 965 chipset is, though i would imagin you'll see it early next year. But I can say this.... the Merom and Yonah version that i used were fairly similar in performance, that is usage NOT benchmarks, but Merom was a bit faster feeling.
Click to expand...

And what about wattage(TDP)? Is the Merom's heat output less at an equivalent level?
 
Poncho said:
the Merom and Yonah version that i used were fairly similar in performance, that is usage NOT benchmarks, but Merom was a bit faster feeling.
Click to expand...

I really don't expect Merom to be leaps and bounds over Yonah performance wise. Me just drools over a (hopefully) sub 20w chip that rapes benchmarks and games.
 
Conroe is basically a Merom a high fmax die fused and operated at higher TDP.
 
jebo_4jc said:
If people were really hoping for an X2 killer from Yonah, that's rediculous. You can't even get a dual core AMD laptop yet afaik, and even if you could it would be using a desktop kit. I have no plans to exploit yonah on a desktop, but I definitely want a XPS with a 7800gtx (or better) and a yonah.
Click to expand...

Alienware has been offering all the desktop x2s on their notebooks for a month or so now. There's also an option to add an FX-57 instead. :eek:

Oh yea, all of the single and dual core opterons are an option too.
 
Alienware has been offering all the desktop x2s on their notebooks for a month or so now. There's also an option to add an FX-57 instead.

Oh yea, all of the single and dual core opterons are an option too.
Click to expand...

how many pounds of battery does it need to be operational for 2 hours? :D
 
empoy said:
how many pounds of battery does it need to be operational for 2 hours? :D
Click to expand...

lol, I dunno man. But hey, there's been P4 notbooks in the past, so I think these will last a little longer :p.
 
everybody might be surprised when _______ ships Yonah with desktop TDP :cool:

Yonah is at par with an X2 3800+ with a mobility TDP. Now with a desktop TDP, the benchmark data might say a different story.
 
empoy said:
everybody might be surprised when _______ ships Yonah with desktop TDP :cool:

Yonah is at par with an X2 3800+ with a mobility TDP. Now with a desktop TDP, the benchmark data might say a different story.
Click to expand...

Sure, but is it (2GHz Yonah) worth over $100 more? Again, add in an expensive assed motherboard and DDR2 then BANG big bucks galore. Sure that's cool with some, but it will turn many others off. AMD F@ns shouldn't cheer this bad news because that means higher X2 and Turion prices. There's no love from either of these companies.

Donnie27
 
I want to build a Yonah system but i want to know its gonna be worth it..now it sounds like i wont be able to use memron in a Yonah board..mabey i should wait for conroe. Sounds like Conroe wont play nice with al I975 boards either so i couldnt even grab a pelser to keep me goin and still be able to upgrade. No matter what i do now im gonna end up needing a new board soon. Im on a P4 3.06 533FSB now though :confused:

Ive heard of a desktop Yonah CPU with a higher TDP or FSB or something then the standard ones...that sounds like it could kick serious ass if priced right..anyone else hear anything about that?
 
merom is compatable with the i945gm, it is currently working on ES boards with the 945 chipset. it all depends on BIOS support.
 
lithium726 said:
merom is compatable with the i945gm, it is currently working on ES boards with the 945 chipset. it all depends on BIOS support.
Click to expand...

It does, but IIRC 945GM doesn't do 1066fsb so you might see a "watered down" version of merom in the initial release.
 
Poncho said:
It does, but IIRC 945GM doesn't do 1066fsb so you might see a "watered down" version of merom in the initial release.
Click to expand...
wait, merom will have a 1066 MHz FSB? Since when?
 
merom ES on Napa platform have only 667Mhz FSB. on Sta. Rosa platform, it will go up to 800Mhz FSB.
 
lithium726 said:
i thought merom was gonna be 800fsb?
Click to expand...

It should go 1066 on the next chipset, after 945. Though that won't be for probably another year or so at least.
 
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