So, do we have a decision to make?

[SmokeRngs]

I don't want to alienate anyone, I guess I really just have no run into any area's where F@H would not work well. Maybe for very old boxen, but at that point I have to wonder how much they are contributing anyways, and if it is not time to retire some old boxen and get something new? If some of you could perhaps provide examples where F@H is not a viable option where another project is, I would likely be more open to something new.

Actually, do you know why moose went to UD? Due to firewall restrictions or something like that at his job, he was no longer able to either send and/or receive work for F@H. However, UD was not a problem. Replacing UD with another project can give people another option to keep working with us.

 

[Viper87227]

Actually, do you know why moose went to UD? Due to firewall restrictions or something like that at his job, he was no longer able to either send and/or receive work for F@H. However, UD was not a problem. Replacing UD with another project can give people another option to keep working with us.

I believe it had something to do with proxy settings, but Moose would have to chime in and verify that. But, why does UD work where F@H doesn't? Is it possible that it has since been fixed?

Again, I don't mean to be so negative here, I just don't want to see a new project adopted that fails to take off.

 

[SmokeRngs]

I believe it had something to do with proxy settings, but Moose would have to chime in and verify that. But, why does UD work where F@H doesn't? Is it possible that it has since been fixed?

Again, I don't mean to be so negative here, I just don't want to see a new project adopted that fails to take off.

I believe the only fix would be to stop using port 8080 and use a different one.

 

[charpman]

My question for you then, as raised before, is what says there are any other projects out there to suit your needs? Why is F@H not an option, and how do you know a different project out there will work where F@H wont? What happens if a new project is adopted, and it is not one that will work in your situation?

I don't want to alienate anyone, I guess I really just have no run into any area's where F@H would not work well. Maybe for very old boxen, but at that point I have to wonder how much they are contributing anyways, and if it is not time to retire some old boxen and get something new? If some of you could perhaps provide examples where F@H is not a viable option where another project is, I would likely be more open to something new.

Okay, easy one for me to field.

First off, I am actively folding for FaH and have will not be stopping. I upgrade frequently. Too frequently probably. This has left me with an abundance of PC's. I have right now, at home over 20PCs on FaH. Several of those are so slow they barely make the due dates and crank out a whopping 7ppd. I have 18+ other PC's waiting to do something useful. FaH simply has too high of requirements for hardware for these older PC's. UD was perfect for them. It looks like any of the BOINC based projects are a good fit for the older hardware as well.

I will continue to upgrade. I am getting a pair of C2D boxes quite soon to set up as dedicated FaH boxen. These two boxen will almost match my entire current output (which includes a X1900XTX). But this doesn't mean I shouldn't use the older stuff I have.

Maybe to some it does. I've looked at selling it all off, but really it's not worth much. I am lucky enough to have the space and be able to afford the power to run them in a folding farm - I also have the interest to take on the challenge (for me) of setting such a thing up - especially in Linux (it's my nemesis and I'm a noob ).

As to what says there are other projects out there that suit my needs, well that should be easy. My needs are a project doing something I support or believe in, that can benefit from older PC's and works on multiple OS's. Anything BOINC seems to fit that bill. I perfer health related projects first, then physics, then searching for aliens and lastly encryption.

Regardless of what [H]orde does, I will be joining another project with all this hardware I have. I will still be a member of team 33 and folding away for FaH as well. I would like the new project I join to be under the [H]orde flag though.

From reading this and other threads there are plenty of people who can't join FaH for issues entirely monetary. They can't afford to upgrade and have plenty of PC's that can still be used. Apparently, there are also some with issues about FaH - this is something I know nothing about as I just joined FaH in January 07 and was entirely UD before that. So it seems to me that there are least 2 valid reasons for people not wanting or being able to joing FaH. Why not include them instead of exclude them?

I think most people are happy that thier spare cycles are going towards some health based project. It shouldn't be too hard to pick one.

 

[ND40oz]

I'm all for contributing as best as people can, but I don't agree with the logic that because someone has PCs that are so old they can no longer fold, then we as a team need to support another project. If we as a team can agree on a worthy project, then I'm all for it, but if people are campaigning for another team project just because they have PCs that have long worn out there useful life, then take them to another project on their own or recycle them.

 

[Flying Fox]

My $0.02:

• Gauge more reaction from more UD team members
• Pick a couple (may be 3) of projects that most will want to move to
• Present the alternatives to Kyle for his blessing
• A front page call to arms to get it started

If Kyle said "no, let's all go FAH", then this 2nd team thing may not have enough to get off the ground (simply because the UD people tend to be a bit more hands off and may not check here so often). People will start getting blinking tray icons and we need to make sure to give them options, fast.

There is also this weird thing about being on "another team". I don't mean to be subversive or anything, but just that there are people who prefer to be different.

Edit: My file server is a very much sufficient Tualatin Celeron [email protected]. I wouldn't think it is a "useless" machine. It was one of my more successful overclocks actually.

 

[GameALot]

I will be switching my UD machine over to F@H for the time being. Having a second project does sound good though. With the anticipated price drops on quad-core in Juneish, something with SMP capability would be nice. My gaming rig WILL be upgraded then.

Any way it shakes out, I'm on board.

One question though... How long will the UD forum badges be available?

 

[roftranspo]

I

One question though... How long will the UD forum badges be available?

i dont really see a reason why king_N would take them down? after all, it is part of the teams history.

 

[SmokeRngs]

If Kyle said "no, let's all go FAH", then this 2nd team thing may not have enough to get off the ground (simply because the UD people tend to be a bit more hands off and may not check here so often). People will start getting blinking tray icons and we need to make sure to give them options, fast.

Actually, Kyle has the final say. If he says no to another project, then there won't be one. However, if we decide another project should be taken up by the [H] and ask for his blessing, it is unlikely he would say no. He trusts our decisions and our reasons. He won't blindly say go ahead, but our opinions, reasons and arguments should be enough to persuade him.

I will be switching my UD machine over to F@H for the time being. Having a second project does sound good though. With the anticipated price drops on quad-core in Juneish, something with SMP capability would be nice. My gaming rig WILL be upgraded then.

Any way it shakes out, I'm on board.

One question though... How long will the UD forum badges be available?

An SMP client basically is a must since most systems anymore are going to be at least dual core. I can't wait for price drops on the quad core so I can pick one of them up to replace my dual core.

And King already said the badges for UD will stay. Nothing will change except that there will be no more updates to them anymore for obvious reasons.

 

[BillR]

nevermind.

I don't see any other projects that have been listed that I think we as a team should support. I say stick with folding for the time being until something good comes along to replace UD.

Agreed. We are already very strong under F@H, might as well unite under one flag and call it day.

As much as I would love to see Team 33 for F@H get a huge infusion of people and dominate even more than we already do, another project needs to be selected. This has one caveat. It must be worthy of the [H]orde and that's not an easy thing to be.

I'm not going to get into what project should be done or why; at least not right now I won't.

I feel it needs to be said that many people ran UD for a reason. That reason was Stanford and problems that were "caused" by them. I'm not going to get into the history and it does not need to be repeated. DO NOT ASK. You will not receive an answer.

This just means we need another project. There should be no reason to lose UD folders because we refuse to support another project that's worthy of our efforts. Some, maybe many, UD folders could come over to F@H. However, not all will and we don't want anyone to grudgingly come over. They have their reasons for wanting to stay away and they should not be "forced" to join.

As far as I'm concerned, this poll should be closed. If anything, there should only be discussion about finding another worthy project.

For starters, most of the problems that existed with F@H do not exist anymore. No, it's not perfect, but IMHO it is the best out there.

However, your later argument does not really make much sense to me. You say you want to come up with a new project so that UDers aren't being forced over to F@H, but how is sending them to a different project any different? If the masses choose another project, they are still more or less being forced into one or the other. I don't want things to turn into a grudge match any more than the next guy, but I don't think it will be so easy and pick a new project and everyone is happy. My opinion, for what it is worth, is to make F@H our main concern. If there are UDers out there who don't want to fold, then let them find their own project to fold for... [H] cannot adopt every team, and I don't think all the UDers coming over will agree on a new project. Furthermore, those who did UD, what's to say there is another project out there better suited for them than F@H would be. F@H is tried and true, and the team seems to know the ins and outs to taking full advantage of it. With a new project, everyone starts from scratch. I just don't see it as going over well. If a new team was adopted, I think it would get far less support than UD did, and UD was pretty lacking in team members anyways.

Yes, our F@H team (of which I have been an exclusive member of for several years) is strong. It's probably stronger than it "needs" to be. Outside of default team and default PS3'ers, there's not one team that can come anywhere near us right now. I understand things can change but we can always recruit more people, build more boxen, upgrade more boxen and borg more boxen. It's not really a contest if there's no real competition.

As for history, some of the problems have been fixed but not all of them by any means. A lot of people have a bad taste in their mouths caused by Stanford. Even if these people joined up or joined back up to F@H, do you think they would really give it the time and attention that they could if they do so grudgingly? Not likely. It's a lot better for everyone involved to have another project sanctioned by the [H]orde that they would be happy to join.

I stand by my reasons for finding a second project. Diversity is often a good thing. I would rather see [H]orde members sticking with us on another project than going to another project by themselves or with another team. This is about the [H]orde, not a single project.

Sorry, I don't mean to be negative. I guess I am looking at it from the angle of if F@H is our only project, it stands to benefit more than if we adopt something else that just becomes another team underdog. If we could introduce a new team and actually get a good deal of support for it, that would be great, but I honestly do not see that happening.

Trust me, I don't want people coming to F@H grudgingly. Rather, I would hope that those who had a grudge with the project several years ago would be over it by now, and at least give it a fair shake. I still have to wonder, to anyone who holds a grudge against F@H, what says there is a better DC project out there?

My question for you then, as raised before, is what says there are any other projects out there to suit your needs? Why is F@H not an option, and how do you know a different project out there will work where F@H wont? What happens if a new project is adopted, and it is not one that will work in your situation?

I don't want to alienate anyone, I guess I really just have no run into any area's where F@H would not work well. Maybe for very old boxen, but at that point I have to wonder how much they are contributing anyways, and if it is not time to retire some old boxen and get something new? If some of you could perhaps provide examples where F@H is not a viable option where another project is, I would likely be more open to something new.

Trust me, if I had been screwed over by Stanford the way some of our guys were, I'd still be holding a grudge too. I was around when some of it happened, but much of it was before I even joined the forum. I folded for the [H]orde, but didn't announce my presence anywhere and because of that, I didn't follow a lot of what happened. I believe all the forum topics about it were lost long ago during a forum pruning.

Let's just say the problem is more complicated. Many of the problems were caused by Stanford but it didn't stop at just that. Let's just leave it at that. They have their reasons which are valid. If you trust my word on that, fine. If not, that's fine also.

My $0.02:

• Gauge more reaction from more UD team members
• Pick a couple (may be 3) of projects that most will want to move to
• Present the alternatives to Kyle for his blessing
• A front page call to arms to get it started

If Kyle said "no, let's all go FAH", then this 2nd team thing may not have enough to get off the ground (simply because the UD people tend to be a bit more hands off and may not check here so often). People will start getting blinking tray icons and we need to make sure to give them options, fast.

There is also this weird thing about being on "another team". I don't mean to be subversive or anything, but just that there are people who prefer to be different.

Edit: My file server is a very much sufficient Tualatin Celeron [email protected]. I wouldn't think it is a "useless" machine. It was one of my more successful overclocks actually.

This evening I’m sitting here laughing and recalling the old days when all of the above posts (In much greater quantity) and arguments (major fights) were an annual event.

Each time this type of choice came up it was totally nonproductive for anyone and cost us many many members over the years.

For those that don’t recall, the team was only started by a few people who responded to a front page article by Kyle who thought it would be a nice idea if we had a team and were represented. At that point Kyle was even active in the project and participated in this forum.

History aside, because in this case it’s totally irrelevant, I don’t see nearly enough representation here from the UD side of things. Unless someone is pretty sure they are at least watching the forum or reading the UD news many probably won’t even know for another few weeks the project even ended.

Back in the day I could make a very strong argument for everyone to fold. I can’t do that now because too many things have changed.

I too have many old machines sitting around that I couldn’t afford to run even if they were remotely productive.

The price of electricity keeps going up with only the promise of even higher rates.

Stanford has in my opinion pushed the limits of many who would be willing participants but can’t afford to invest in the newest technology as the folk at Stanford seem to think we should. Stanford could indeed write code to support the older machines if they chose to; however I don’t see that happening.

Will the other organizations follow Stanford in their quest for more production as UD tried to do and simply for whatever reasons gave up the project? UD was eventually going to require bigger better machines just as everyone will.

I am down from 20 plus boxen to six dual cores all working on folding, I’m too invested in the project to make a random change, but that’s me, not necessary you.

My whole point here? Well, let’s keep the heat down guys and gals. This forum is pretty stable, the arguments minimal and politics aside a pretty nice place to visit and call [H]ome. We need to keep it that way and not slide back to the old days, and remember, this is coming from an old guy.

Just my few thoughts

 

[SpoogeMonkey]

Well said Bill. I've been folding for 4+ yrs with whatever I could throw together.And having gone through a lot of the "in-fighting" of the old days, I'm still a dedicated folder. I also agree with Bill in that I don't see a lot of unfamiliar names in this thread; ie UD only folks.

I suggest for the time being that we make fah the #1 project. Not for the points domination but rather for the science. What better way can you think of to help find a cure than to pool all your resources into one project? After all this is about the science...right? I lost both my grandparents to cancer and alzheimers while in my teens and I'll be damned if I'm giving up.

Fold on!

 

[BillR]

Well said Bill. I've been folding for 4+ yrs with whatever I could throw together.And having gone through a lot of the "in-fighting" of the old days, I'm still a dedicated folder. I also agree with Bill in that I don't see a lot of unfamiliar names in this thread; ie UD only folks.

I suggest for the time being that we make fah the #1 project. Not for the points domination but rather for the science. What better way can you think of to help find a cure than to pool all your resources into one project? After all this is about the science...right? I lost both my grandparents to cancer and alzheimers while in my teens and I'll be damned if I'm giving up.

Fold on!

I too lost my Grandmother and Mother to Alzheimer’s and last September I lost my father to cancer, so like you I’m pretty committed to helping in those and other medical fields.

KingN, our notorious [H]folding.com webmaster was very instrumental in getting the UD project started and did much to help grow it.

He has found a project that requires virtually no change for anyone using the UD client.

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/

It’s well funded, supported world wide by many universities and IBM. The best part is they run the basically the same client UD used.

For those UD people following all this take a few moments and read the “What we do” section. In anticipation of gathering new followers they have also posted this:

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/viewGridOrgWelcome.do

This project is productive, requires little change, you can use your older boxen and unless I missed something I don’t see much of a down side.

In no way am I trying to tell the UD folk what to do, just making an obvious suggestion based on as little as possible change doing the same good work.

The stats would be easily track able as they have made good provisions for that I’m told.

Any who, give it a look if you will, it looks like a pretty good direction.

Again, just my thoughts.

 

[King_N]

Sorry I'm late to the party.

I have been working with Kyle since the announcement was made about UD closing down, more will follow on this shortly.




As far as a project choice goes, I have been researching and testing UD's sister project, World Community Grid,

A little bit of info on this project.

Project Page



Current Projects

Cure Muscular Dystrophy Project
Genome Comparison Project
Help Defeat Cancer Project
Human Proteome Folding - Phase 2 Project(Rosetta)
FightAIDS@Home Project


Non-Profit(Public Domain)

World Community Grid is making technology available only to public and not-for-profit organizations to use in humanitarian research that might otherwise not be completed due to the high cost of the computer infrastructure required in the absence of a public grid. As part of our commitment to advancing human welfare, all results will be in the public domain and made public to the global research community.

Operating Systems Supported

Client

World Community Grid project uses the familier UD client, this is the new version that would have been made available to us if the UD project had continued.

Will it work on older machines???

In one simple word YES!

To test this out I dusted off an old pentium 166@180 dually with an 800 mb HD, 64 mb of ram, and installed windows 2000. The client installed flawless and I am happy to announce even on that seriously old and outdated system it is already 5% through the work.



Upgrading to WCG

Easy upgrade.

A very nice touch was added, during the client installation the old UD client is uninstalled to make room for the new, removing half the work right there.



1 [H]ard Team, 2 Great Projects, 1 Common Goal..... The Cure.



Site Admin: [H]ard|Folding
Lurker Extraordinaire

 

[KodiakStar]

For the record, my "Nevermind" was pointed at the posts before me, I thought they were referring to UC Berrr... err.. Weenies... programs..

And saying there was no need to shove WU's to them when we are going with the better school already (Stanford...)

(Grudges die hard...)

I for one am all for another project, granted that its worthy and keeps team members here, and brings in new ones.

EDIT: (sarcasm for the MF win.)...

 

[charpman]

I'm all for contributing as best as people can, but I don't agree with the logic that because someone has PCs that are so old they can no longer fold, then we as a team need to support another project. If we as a team can agree on a worthy project, then I'm all for it, but if people are campaigning for another team project just because they have PCs that have long worn out there useful life, then take them to another project on their own or recycle them.

That's a rather elitist and arrogant attitude to take don't you think? Just because a PC can't do FaH work units, it's "worn out it's useful life"? Really?? So the 12 servers I have that aren't based on a single CPU over 1ghz aren't doing anything useful? I guess the best we can hope for is to agree to disagree over our definitions of useful.

By no means am I trying to encourage this for my own sake. I was under the impression that others supported it and so I was chiming in. At this point, I'm pretty close to just going to another project on my own and [H]orde be damned for a 2nd project.

I just don't get the negative attitude towards something that if you aren't interested in being a part of shouldn't affect you at all. What exactly is your investment in stopping this from happening??

 

[Xilikon]

LOL, why have a petty argument on whenever to support just FAH or add anew project ????

IMHO, It's not you or me who decide what project to pick and we should leave the choice to ex-UD members which project to join. Personnally, I would like to pick a new project (WCG might be the winner) then let the community pick it. However, we should set a time frame to check if the new project is viable in terms of members participation and growth.

Myself, I don't care if anyone is having a grudge against FAH or not. There are plenty of valid reasons and this is a small list :

-proxy issues.
-Blocked FAH from work but not for another project.
-Computers too old to run FAH efficienly (no point spitting 7 ppd while wasting electricity).
-Various beliefs (if someone knew one who died from AIDS, it's more likely he would pick a project to research for AIDS).
-University affiliation.


Another reason not in the list :

-If we pick WCG, there would be a possibility of a XBox360 client because the project is funded partially by Bill & Melinda Gates funds, hence having a better chance to see this into realization.

We are not talking about politics but about offering a opportunity to have alternatives to choose from.

My CDN 0.02$

 

[ND40oz]

That's a rather elitist and arrogant attitude to take don't you think? Just because a PC can't do FaH work units, it's "worn out it's useful life"? Really?? So the 12 servers I have that aren't based on a single CPU over 1ghz aren't doing anything useful? I guess the best we can hope for is to agree to disagree over our definitions of useful.

I don't think it's elitist, I think it's realistic. In the corporate world, if I PC is pushing 4 years old, it's time to replace it. I take that same view with my personal PCs, although I did keep my dual PIII 600 running for close to 7 years because I was lazy and didn't want to move AD off of it. Others may not have this view and that's their choice.

I'm not trying to make an argument out of this, the WGC project looks like it could be viable but I think we need to learn more about it and make a decision as a team. When this statement is made in the 29th post of this thread:

In my opinion, we should pick one from WCG or R@H as both has their own advantages and disadvantages. My beloved moose, can you make a poll with those choices if everyone agree ?

I start to take notice and voice my opinions. Personally, I think we need to slow down and not jump in to something so quickly without a lot of research and discussion.

 

[Xilikon]

I start to take notice and voice my opinions. Personally, I think we need to slow down and not jump in to something so quickly without a lot of research and discussion.

I agree we should take the time to look around. However, we eliminated many projects and are down to one or two so if we decide to slow down and research, I believe it would generate some useless debate so we should settle it at once.

 

[charpman]

I don't think it's elitist, I think it's realistic. In the corporate world, if I PC is pushing 4 years old, it's time to replace it. I take that same view with my personal PCs, although I did keep my dual PIII 600 running for close to 7 years because I was lazy and didn't want to move AD off of it. Others may not have this view and that's their choice.

last time I checked my house wasn't corporate america. I upgrade frequently, but I don't have anywhere near a corporate budget for upgrading PC's. Oh, and I'm not sure what corporations you've been at recently, but I know of quite a few, even Fortune 500 ones, that are still using laptops greater than 4 years old. And at least one was still using Proliant 5000's (PPRO based boxes) as production servers a few years ago! That's greater than 10 years old at the time. On the flip side, when I did work at AEP they upgraded every year...it's nice to be a utility.

I do take that view with my personal PC's. Most of the PC's in my main office at home, which is where I work, are under 2 years old. Though I do have a few that are 5 years old and still quite viable. A P4-3ghz works fine for just about anything non gaming related I can throw at it. I have 10 PC's in my home office.

But that still doesn't mean I just toss out my old stuff. It's still good and for me quite useful. I host my own email on exchange, and various web sites. And though it's out of date it, Win2k Server is running away on several servers just fine. I have a separate bunch of servers running win2k3 on 1U rack mount Proliants that aren't over 1ghz and they all work fine. They are old, but hardly useless for what they do. I can't afford to upgrade 15+ servers to current C2D 1U Rack mount boxes. Sorry...

If I only had 1 or 2 pc's in my home then sure, no problem. But I have over 40PC's here... My DNS server is a dual PPRO and works fine. Also it did UD work just fine. I dont' think FaH would be much good on it though

Now I know I'm far from typical, but so what? I hope a 2nd project is formed up for the [H]orde but if t isn't you know what? No biggie. I still don't get why so many people who aren't interested in a 2nd project are so against it.

Oh, for the record, I was originally going to use the 18+ PC's I have as a diskless folding farm for FaH, but after some benchmarks and seeing the lousy performance I figured they would do better on another project whose work units were more forgiving of aging PC's. That was going to be UD. So nothing is taken away from my FaH efforts at all. Just trying to put to use other hardware I have.

 

[AtomicMoose]

Actually, do you know why moose went to UD? Due to firewall restrictions or something like that at his job, he was no longer able to either send and/or receive work for F@H. However, UD was not a problem. Replacing UD with another project can give people another option to keep working with us.

F@H does not work with the version of Squid that my company runs for it's proxy. UD did, so I switched.

I believe it had something to do with proxy settings, but Moose would have to chime in and verify that. But, why does UD work where F@H doesn't? Is it possible that it has since been fixed?

See above.

 

[MrMike]

After reading this thread, I have to put my vote forward for the world community grid.
The idea of running F@H on your newer computers, and WGI on older computers is an excellent idea.

I have retired two machines from F@H since the windows SMP client has been released. I am quite sure I would be willing to put these machines towards the WGI project due to how well it runs on older machines. Dual P3 1GHz and an Athlon XP 2200+. I imagine that a number of F@Hers have old rigs they have retired since the SMP clients have been released, and would be more than willing to contribute to a project like WGI.

 

[ND40oz]

last time I checked my house wasn't corporate america. I upgrade frequently, but I don't have anywhere near a corporate budget for upgrading PC's. Oh, and I'm not sure what corporations you've been at recently, but I know of quite a few, even Fortune 500 ones, that are still using laptops greater than 4 years old. And at least one was still using Proliant 5000's (PPRO based boxes) as production servers a few years ago! That's greater than 10 years old at the time. On the flip side, when I did work at AEP they upgraded every year...it's nice to be a utility.

I do take that view with my personal PC's. Most of the PC's in my main office at home, which is where I work, are under 2 years old. Though I do have a few that are 5 years old and still quite viable. A P4-3ghz works fine for just about anything non gaming related I can throw at it. I have 10 PC's in my home office.

But that still doesn't mean I just toss out my old stuff. It's still good and for me quite useful. I host my own email on exchange, and various web sites. And though it's out of date it, Win2k Server is running away on several servers just fine. I have a separate bunch of servers running win2k3 on 1U rack mount Proliants that aren't over 1ghz and they all work fine. They are old, but hardly useless for what they do. I can't afford to upgrade 15+ servers to current C2D 1U Rack mount boxes. Sorry...

If I only had 1 or 2 pc's in my home then sure, no problem. But I have over 40PC's here... My DNS server is a dual PPRO and works fine. Also it did UD work just fine. I dont' think FaH would be much good on it though

Now I know I'm far from typical, but so what? I hope a 2nd project is formed up for the [H]orde but if t isn't you know what? No biggie. I still don't get why so many people who aren't interested in a 2nd project are so against it.

Oh, for the record, I was originally going to use the 18+ PC's I have as a diskless folding farm for FaH, but after some benchmarks and seeing the lousy performance I figured they would do better on another project whose work units were more forgiving of aging PC's. That was going to be UD. So nothing is taken away from my FaH efforts at all. Just trying to put to use other hardware I have.

Look, I'm not here to start an argument over the whole farm philosophy. Everyone can run their farms however they want, unfortunately, I don't think Stanford cares about people who have their own 20+ computer farms with older hardware, hence, no more tinkers. I personally choose to give away my old boxes to family and friends and upgrade a few times a year. I blame [H] for this neverending upgrade philosophy

 

[AtomicMoose]

Look, I'm not here to start an argument over the whole farm philosophy. Everyone can run their farms however they want, unfortunately, I don't think Stanford cares about people who have their own 20+ computer farms with older hardware, hence, no more tinkers. I personally choose to give away my old boxes to family and friends and upgrade a few times a year. I blame [H] for this neverending upgrade philosophy

AMEN to that!

The point is, those that want to run F@H, can. Those that support a second project will get that project once the majority chooses it.

But as was stated, I think we need to get more UD'ers in here to voice their opinions.

 

[BLUEFISH44]

I really have not been on the UD scene for long, but i am for any project that will aid research that will benifit humanity, I'm not to exited about listening for alien radio stations and the like. I also agree that the cross platform compatability is important.

 

[DF454]

Yesterday afternoon I stopped UD after it finished the wu it was on and downloaded Bionic.
The I set it up to run Rosetta@Home, as a test. I had some trouble with it at first. It would not load as a service. I had to do the single user install. It's running, it's says it at 100% cpu but my temps are down 10F.

I'm all for the lower temps, but is it really using the cpu to it's full advantage?

 

[Shark-MegaByte]

I will probably be switching to F@H soon.

 

[charpman]

Look, I'm not here to start an argument over the whole farm philosophy. Everyone can run their farms however they want, unfortunately, I don't think Stanford cares about people who have their own 20+ computer farms with older hardware, hence, no more tinkers. I personally choose to give away my old boxes to family and friends and upgrade a few times a year. I blame [H] for this neverending upgrade philosophy

I blame me for upgrading! And ya, I agree Standord isn't interested in my old stuff, that's why I have two projects going

I upgrade my gaming PC and main work PC at least once/twice per year. Then my wife wants her PC upgraded. So I do that. I then rotate everything down, to other PC's in my office and then eventually to life as a server of some sort. Sometimes, if its a really good year, I'll upgrade other office PC's so friends can come over and play current games at decent frame rates.

I get you don't want to argue and we've drifted quite a bit. And arguing is never what I set out to do, I've tried to include smilies and keep it light. I'm just curious why you and others have come out against the entire concept of a 2nd team for the [H]orde. I think I've addressed as well as I can my own reasons for wanting to support 2 projects at once. If you don't want to, that's great. Nobody is suggesting you must. I just fail to understand the position against having more than one team. Since clearly some people will support projects other than FaH for whatever reason.

Some have said, you can't please everyone and not everyone will agree on a 2nd project. Thats fine, and can pretty much be said about any human endevour, no? The goal isn't to please everyone. It's to use spare cycles as you can to help health realted projects. If you can do that as part of a team so much the better.

 

[charpman]

Yesterday afternoon I stopped UD after it finished the wu it was on and downloaded Bionic.
The I set it up to run Rosetta@Home, as a test. I had some trouble with it at first. It would not load as a service. I had to do the single user install. It's running, it's says it at 100% cpu but my temps are down 10F.

I'm all for the lower temps, but is it really using the cpu to it's full advantage?

Ha! You do what I always tend to do...call the thing BIONIC rather than BOINC <- not even sure how to pronounce that.

Glad I'm not the only one.

as to your question...I have no clue. heheh

 

[AtomicMoose]

Personally, I am really drawn to this BOINC client. So many options to be had, and the R@H seems like a fun and well supported project.

 

[charpman]

Personally, I am really drawn to this BOINC client. So many options to be had, and the R@H seems like a fun and well supported project.

I've had the BOINC client in some form or another for years. One of my PPro systems has been doing Seti work for ever and it used that client...maybe still does. I should probably check and see. heh I haven't actively paid attention to it in quite some time, probably 5 years or so.

The current state of the BOINC client does seem to be quite impressive.

 

[AtomicMoose]

I've had the BOINC client in some form or another for years. One of my PPro systems has been doing Seti work for ever and it used that client...maybe still does. I should probably check and see. heh I haven't actively paid attention to it in quite some time, probably 5 years or so.

The current state of the BOINC client does seem to be quite impressive.

It has massive support.

 

[Kvothe]

I've heard good things about BOINC as well, ran it for a short time via SETI...

If anything, I'd like to see another project running under the [H] banner that supports the older hardware. I've got boxen that are having an increasingly hard time keeping up with F@H that are still useful for testing around the house, and contributing during downtime.

 

[OSUguy98]

I know alot of my hardware will soon fall to what alot of people would consider "useless"... I have everything from a PIII-833 to a P4 2.4C crunching away.... and eventually, the WUs will be more than they can handle... Now that I'm married, and own a house, we're barely scraping by as things stand.... so upgrading to C2Ds and GPU client-compatible video cards just isn't an option right now or for the foreseeable future....

As others have said, the older hardware can still be used for great things, we just have to figure out what is a best-fit for all (if we choose to have another "Official" team...) I think most others have pointed out that stats and inter-OS concerns are at the top of the list, so lets sit back and explore some options, research things at bit, make an informed decision and then create a team (if that's what we decide to do)

We're all adults here, and I'm sure that we can have a civil debate without it turning into something akin to the AMD vs Intel or nVidia vs ATI threads that are ever-so popular with the mods and admins


Keep on Folding!! For the [H]orde!!

 

[FighterAce124]

I wouldnt mind moving to WCG or R@H, but I really don't mind, if I have to move to F@H, I will. Additional options would be very nice, though..

 

[NoEcho]

I've had a WCG team for a few years now. Spam Hampster. Everything has gone pretty smoothly. The original version ran the cpu at 90% capacity. Some folks overheated so it defaults to something like 60% now. There's 3rd party apps that let you set the percentage. Boinc is a handy tool but can be bit sticky. Tough to tell who all is getting what when you run Boinc: it seems to suck in a lot of different projects - though they probably all fall under the WCG heading and I'm pretty sure you can limit the scope. By default it's all biomed research AFAIK.

I don't believe IBM would dare to use the data for profit. A lof of us had hard questions about that at the start. They answered them convincingly. They'd be sued stupid from thousands of different people if they tried to renege.

Near as I can tell all of these projects are being used by shrewd PhD applicants (doctorlings?) and academic departments (F@H included). I have no doubt that many of the recipients will use the information for patents eventually (schools do that). Still, if it helps people out (while making me feel good) I believe it's worthwhile.

WCG via boinc is happy with my new 165 dual opteron. It's happy with my old 2500. WCG has its own forum/stats.

What I like most about WCG in the DC realm is the lack'o'drama. It's not just ubergeekers flaunting epeen. There's lots of Vanilla Dells doing WCG.

 

[Bill Clo]

i dont know how to vote. I just run F@H and only F@H.

but im always for kicking ass in as many of ways as possible

Here here.

 

[Freemason115]

I chose to go with World Community Grid, I like the client and it runs well on my machines, they have multiple projects that have a good sound to them for helping others. Glad to see we had a team setup already. I put a little time into UD, so I look forward into moving my boxes over.

 

[CaptRingold]

I only lurk here rather infrequently, less than I used to, but saw that happened with UD on the front page. I tired of F@H full time a couple years back and switched to BOINC, and it's been.. an interesting experience.

I can say one thing about the BOINC client; it's a massive improvement in stability now as compared to a year or two ago. It was garbage, but I've had few problems and the latest beta client I've been using since it's release with zero problems on Vista x64 (the 32bit client, however -- almost no projects have 64bit WU's available). If the beta is any indication, it's just getting better all the time. Don't anybody expect true SMP capability from any of the major projects any time soon; they all seem happy to not upset the apple cart, as the BOINC client does an intelligent enough job assigning tasks to all available cores.

I count 41 projects total, including some beta-testing spin-offs, that run under BOINC. If you guys pick one project I'd suggest some discipline; it's so easy to add other projects, vital points can get siphoned off. There are some other projects hidden away that are in the alpha stages, but no medical ones that I'm aware of. I use BAM in conjuction with Boincstats.com to manage my clients remotely and for nifty stats.. though they aren't as elaborately developed as some stats sites I've seen for F@H.

Points are also comparable across all the projects.

Speaking of points! I suggest somebody take a serious look in to whatever is chosen. Yes, I know it's all for the science, but if we didn't care some most of us wouldn't have badges. BOINC by default calculates points using a qourum, based on self-reported CPU usage. Thats great in an honest world, but some people in some projects use a modified client to 'cheat' and claim more credit than what they deserve. Rosetta@Home, Einstein@Home, CPDN and one or two others use a set system more in the spirit of F@H.

Example stats from Boincstats:
http://www.boincstats.com/stats/boinc_user_graph.php?pr=bo&id=f0b6a95970da55dfc60ab4384ce6863e
(I know you guys have your own site, but until it gets reconfigured, its a place to gander; there are others as well)
http://www.boincstats.com/stats/project_graph.php?pr=bo
SETI@Home dominates, but thats not a surprise given it was the founding project.


Oh, and this is interesting:
http://boinc.netsoft-online.com/e107_plugins/boinc/get_cpcs.php

While they all use 'cobblestones', there are slight variances between the projects, and some favor one CPU manufacturer over the other (doesn't everything?). Einstein@Home has adjusted its points downward some, so the bias in the stats there towards it will disappear.

As far as I can tell, these are the medical related projects, with SIMAP delivering the most immediate results (the downside being that its done, with only monthly updates), and the two most mature being WCG and Rosetta:
Tanpaku
SIMAP
Predictor@Home
Malaria Control
Docking@Home

What the difference is between Predictor@Home, Docking@Home and F@H is.. I don't know.

For whatever it's worth, I for one hope to see [H] dominate F@H all year round! Personally I go back and forth between Rosetta and F@H these days (lost grandparents to Alzheimers, and my father is in the earliest stages and only those two do Alzheimers work to my knowledge), but good luck with whatever you guys pick. I'd think, though, that focusing on F@H as a 'primary' project would allow the team more recognition versus truly splitting efforts.

Well, thats my USD$ .02, which trumps those CDN .02c.. But can't touch 2 pence.. Sorry for any typo's, its late.. or early, depending on how I look at it.

 

[drizzt81]

we already beat the roos, we need another project

 

[Flying Fox]

Hmm... while I like WCG myself, someone posted another link, may be worth checking out too?

http://www.childhooddiseases.org/