Smoking Near Apple Computers Voids Warranty

NeghVar said:
One more thing. This proves that second-hand smoke can effect other people. If the smoke is gumming up the insides of your PC, then it is likely progressively gumming up your lungs.
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Wait...hearsay from apple tech/reps proved it now? That makes me lol. Apple fanboy I think.
 
(d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake or other external causes;
(e) to damage caused by operating the product outside the permitted or intended uses described by Apple

Copy/pasted this out of their warranty verbage..I'd say they are covered. Working on computers that are owned by people that smoke around them is TERRIBLE..I'm glad they stuck up for their techs call personally.
 
Bedlam said:
(d) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake or other external causes;
(e) to damage caused by operating the product outside the permitted or intended uses described by Apple

Copy/pasted this out of their warranty verbage..I'd say they are covered. Working on computers that are owned by people that smoke around them is TERRIBLE..I'm glad they stuck up for their techs call personally.
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That would never hold up in a court of law, you can't dictate "YOU CAN ONLY USE MY PRODUCT IN X FASHION OR I'M NOT COVERING IT"

Automakers have tried and failed doing that. They could argue that smoke caused fans to die, and as result they won't honor warranty replacement of fans. They cannot say that a hermetically sealed hard drive failure was due to smoke residue.

I don't disagree that Apple techs should be forced into repairing them, if they don't want to do it they can certainly find work elsewhere. Or they could wear a gas mask and gloves, it seems extreme but this would be the starting point of a slippery slope.

Wheres the threshold to prove that a person smoked around the PC? Obviously there are going to be cases where there could be no contest, but this also allows Apple and their techs to refuse warranty on machines in a closed system that consumers essentially have very little power to fight.
 
NeghVar said:
I used to work at a PC service shop and we got all kinds of disgusting systems in and what sucked is that many times when we RMA a defective part and it was covered in unidentifiable gunk, it was either turned down or in advanced RMA, we were billed when they received the failed part. They classifiy that as USER ABUSE. The tar and dust combination is electrically conductive and can cause shorts as well as ruining the cooling devices and frying the CPU while dust alone is not conductive

If you never replace or refill the oil in your car and the engine seizes, the manufacturer will not honor the warranty! Like you do a car, keep your system properly maintained and cleaned. That is YOUR responsibility

For those of you that say this is total BS and biased and illegal, put yourselves in the shoes of the techs, the stores and the manufacturers and try to imagine what they have to go through with such dirty, neglected systems. The user has made a conscious decision to heavily smoke around his system. ignorance is no excuse.

You users who do not properly maintain your systems, let crap build up inside, don't consider the environment you are putting your system in have absolutely no right to protest us unless you have been somewhere in the line of tech>store>manufacturer and dealt with people who are careless with their systems, blame all their misfortunes on us and expect us to replace it so they can start the whole process over again and be back another day. HOW DARE YOU!
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These are closed systems. If the customer opens them to do routine maintenance, they void the warranty. Nobody, that I know, takes their laptop apart to clean it and iMacs are effectively non-portable laptops.

Regardless, I doubt that most desktop systems come with manuals on routine dusting, but if they do, please provide links to scans of Apple's, Dell's and HP's routine cleaning and dusting schedule.

Sorry, but what you're suggesting, for the typical home computer users, is the equivalent of asking a customer to take apart their television set to clean it every few months.
 
Riftsaw said:
I nominate "Cleanupdate1" for best picture. The dampness from whatever cleaning agent you used only drives the point home.
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I was using rubbing alchol but even then, that fan was ridiculous.

Those 3 image (cleanupdate1, 2, 3) were the results AFTER a couple of months. images like 19-22 show the finished product the first time I cleaned it (all the fan's were free from junk and the system was fine).

Still ridiculous... system died now so I don't even bother with it...
 
Sure, why not. Their products are way more delicate than PCs are, so naturally it must be treated like an ancient artifact that will crumble to dust at the slightest contamination from anything
 
Smoking is a disgusting habit, why you would do it near $1500 computers that require airflow (that your smoke will go through) is beyond me, but people apparently do it...

I'll post this again because of how bad it pissed me off







And this is what it looked like after I cleaned it



Then he used it in the same environment for another couple of months

http://lousyhero.com/blaze/clean/cleanupdate2.jpg

Rest of the pics

http://lousyhero.com/blaze/clean/
 
Fuck, what a long thread, I only got through Page 1.

nilepez said:
These are closed systems. If the customer opens them to do routine maintenance, they void the warranty. Nobody, that I know, takes their laptop apart to clean it and iMacs are effectively non-portable laptops.

Regardless, I doubt that most desktop systems come with manuals on routine dusting, but if they do, please provide links to scans of Apple's, Dell's and HP's routine cleaning and dusting schedule.

Sorry, but what you're suggesting, for the typical home computer users, is the equivalent of asking a customer to take apart their television set to clean it every few months.
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This.

As long as there are no user serviceable parts inside a laptop (or a desktop, for that matter), then they cannot void a warranty for dust, because dust is everywhere, and there's no way a consumer can live/work in a clean room.

I serviced copiers for 13 years, starting in the mid-80's, when smoking in offices was still accepted and normal. usually, the machines were kinda gummy, but they never were adversely affected by the smoke, except for the optics, and that wasn't too hard to deal with. I certainly had no problem with the cleaning tho (ammoniated glass cleaner FTMFW); and the other chemicals I used in the job were far more dangerous than the smoke residue.

Part of the problem is the computer industry itself: they've stated certain things, the biggest one being "NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE; WARRANTY VOID IF OPENED", which is the catch-22: if you can't get inside to clean, you can't be held liable for the shit that gets in. Including smoke.

I've never seen smoke kill any circuit boards or components. What kills computers is the dust, the smoke might act like a binder, but no worse than anything else in the air.

And that case that wahtshisface posted: looks like the owner spilled shit inside the machine, which IS warranty-voiding.

I dont' think Apple is justified in this. If they made a machine that's that delicate (and, supposedly, laptops are tougher than their desk-bound brethren), then they're liable for that. I doubt seriously that the machine failed due to *just* smoke, tho... it was likely something else, and they're too snobby to admit it.

Apple just needs to step up and make the customer happy... or admit they just don't give a shit, and stop offering extended warranties (which, it seems, is necessary with them).
 
Tex Arcana said:
if you can't get inside to clean, you can't be held liable for the shit that gets in. Including smoke.

I've never seen smoke kill any circuit boards or components. What kills computers is the dust, the smoke might act like a binder, but no worse than anything else in the air.
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Wait what?

So you're not liable if you spill something on a computer? Because you can't clean it? Or do liquids not count? Just curious where the "line" is... What if I spill some food crumbs through some open fan vents and it gets stuck in a fan? Computer stops working because it overheats, something dies... nothing I could do about it though cause I can't open it up!

What does damage is clogging up fan's and killing airflow, which smoking does quite fucking well... as shown from the pictures above... that 7900GT's fan was so bad it just stopped spinning and the card wouldn't work anymore (even after replacing the heatsink/fan) and that was a fairly expensive card when it came out... That and one of the memory sockets stopped working from that shit too, I probably could have cleaned it out but still.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend about their decision.
 
Let's say that the inside of the laptop looked similar to this power supply, which is very close to something I've personally refused to work on, except the mold was red clay dirt and it was the entire system, not just the powersupply.



To the guys saying that damage caused by cigarette tar should be covered because it's a slippery slope, this could possibly be what the tech had to deal with. There's probably no saving of anything in the system if it failed or it's going to take hours alone to clean before diagnosing can begin. It's not a issue of the tech being too pussy to deal with it and do the job.
 
Blazestorm said:
Wait what?

So you're not liable if you spill something on a computer? Because you can't clean it? Or do liquids not count? Just curious where the "line" is... What if I spill some food crumbs through some open fan vents and it gets stuck in a fan? Computer stops working because it overheats, something dies... nothing I could do about it though cause I can't open it up!

What does damage is clogging up fan's and killing airflow, which smoking does quite fucking well... as shown from the pictures above... that 7900GT's fan was so bad it just stopped spinning and the card wouldn't work anymore (even after replacing the heatsink/fan) and that was a fairly expensive card when it came out... That and one of the memory sockets stopped working from that shit too, I probably could have cleaned it out but still.

I don't see what's so hard to comprehend about their decision.
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Dude, read his whole post, he clearly says that spilling shit in a PC is warranty voiding. Selective reading FTW! :rolleyes:
 
it is sad to me that technicians working on apple pc's are not familiar with isopropanol...

it WILL take it all of with very little effort - way to think outside the box.
 
Astronomica said:
One of my laptops is clogged full of bird dust. I wonder if thats a hazard too :D
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What the %&* is bird dust? If it's a type of "dander", only Apple can say. If it's dropping dust, then YES it IS hazardous.
 
bazylik said:
Dude, read his whole post, he clearly says that spilling shit in a PC is warranty voiding. Selective reading FTW! :rolleyes:
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Guess so, I wasn't gonna read all that :p the one thing caught my eye as I glanced over it though...

And Elian, it's not their job to clean disgusting computers, dust is the worst thing they should have to deal with because there's nothing you can do about it (except dust filters on the computer itself). But smoking can be prevented and shouldn't be happening anywhere near the computer. If it prevents them from working on it because they have to clean that disgusting shit I would void the warranty / refuse service too.
 
About 15 years ago, I had an old Mac II come in for service. I forget the problem, but when I opened it you couldn't even see the components on the motherboard. A mixture of smoke, cat hair, and god knows what else had created a 'blanket' over top the entire inside of the machine.

But I'm not a bitchy, whiny because it's politically correct to whine about smoking, type of person. I called the person, explained the situation, and offered to clean it up.

4 hours, three cans of duster, and a can of electronics cleaner, the shop was $100 richer and the user had a computer that looked like new.
 
And this is nothing guys. You haven't lived as a tech until you are brought in a Laser Printer full of Cat Piss.

I will clean smoke residue from a computer. I will NOT clean cat piss from a Laser Printer LOL.
 
TechLarry said:
And this is nothing guys. You haven't lived as a tech until you are brought in a Laser Printer full of Cat Piss.

I will clean smoke residue from a computer. I will NOT clean cat piss from a Laser Printer LOL.
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Wow..can't say I ever got a laser like that. I suddenly find myself thankful I am no longer in tech repair. :eek:
 
TechLarry said:
And this is nothing guys. You haven't lived as a tech until you are brought in a Laser Printer full of Cat Piss.

I will clean smoke residue from a computer. I will NOT clean cat piss from a Laser Printer LOL.
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LMFAO . . . our cats have pissed a LOT of f'ed up places, but they have yet to piss on anything electrical :).
 
Astronomica said:
As a smoker myself, i've gummed up and "browned" a few beige cases in my day, it's pretty gross. As a bio-hazard though? Gimme a break.
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I quit six months ago (Chantix, haven't smoked since 5-20-09) but yeah. +1 on this
 
But I think there's a difference between a separate shop and factory warranty repairs. There's a big difference if the customer is willing to pay extra to have it cleaned vs. having it covered under warranty/ having the system still covered under a warranty.

If you're not providing any warranty and just offering service work, then yea smoke all you want, you'll just get charged out the ass for someone to clean it / work on it.
 
lord_emperor said:
I don't blame the Apple techs one bit.

I refuse to work on a system owned by a smoker, the residue stinks, stains whatever it touches and breathing the air after I turn such a system on gives me a headache.
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In this economy how can you refuse business?
 
Eh, whatever. I smoke, but I know what that particulate can do to electronics so guess what? I smoke outside! I thought everyone knew that smoking around electronics is a big NO.
 
hardc0re said:
it smells worst than an open sewer and can easily cause vomiting.
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I'd call you a name but this is front page news and I'm trying to stay good and not get banned but seriously.

Smoke buildup smells worse than an open sewer? How many open sewers have you been around because I can assure you anything that smells worse than a farm is pretty vile.

But seriously, on the "can cause vomiting" part -- that's where I'd call you a name if I felt like getting banned. Your sensationalism is off the chartz!
 
Exactly, there are far worse things than smoke crud on or inside a system, wear gloves problem solved, yes it takes forever to clean that muck out of a system, but you can charge for that service (call them first before you do that), I have worked on at least a dozen smoke encrusted systems in the past, also dealt with a system once that had suspect rusting on the outside, called the customer, he failed to tell us earlier, but the cat frequently pisses all over the system, put some gloves on, got to work cleaning it, job done, like someone said before, isopropanol is great for cleaning systems (I believe it's also known as PCB cleaner).

Also worked on a system that when opened, was full of mouse crap and piss stains, so yeah, smoke dirt is the least of my worries, toxoplasmosis or tetanus is.
 
kent said:
But seriously, on the "can cause vomiting" part -- that's where I'd call you a name if I felt like getting banned. Your sensationalism is off the chartz!
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It's possible, though. An offensive odor is a function of perception, and perceptions, and their potential to produce some sort of physical response, vary from person to person.

I come pretty close to hurling whenever a catering truck rolls by. The smell of overused cooking oil make my stomach uneasy. Most other people can actually eat shit that's been cooked in it (why they do it I have no fuckin' idea).
 
Blazestorm said:
If it prevents them from working on it because they have to clean that disgusting shit I would void the warranty / refuse service too.
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That is because you are probably an indignant man-child. The simple fact is, if you aren't going to allow thecustomer to clean the gunk off before they send it to you, then you have to do it. Being a lazy fuck and claiming some sort of intangible and illogical safe harbor is just a fancy way to showing you are what the first sentence of this post mentions.
 
The junk shouldn't have got there in the first place. How is smoke/tar/crap different from food/liquid?

I agree they can't void the warranty for an unpreventable problem, but smoking is something that can be prevented.

Look at those pictures, I've dealt with that shit and cleaned that computer, it took a couple of hours to clean all that crap off before I could actually test/work on the computer. Why should that be covered under warranty?
 
Blazestorm said:
The junk shouldn't have got there in the first place. How is smoke/tar/crap different from food/liquid?

I agree they can't void the warranty for an unpreventable problem, but smoking is something that can be prevented.

Look at those pictures, I've dealt with that shit and cleaned that computer, it took a couple of hours to clean all that crap off before I could actually test/work on the computer. Why should that be covered under warranty?
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Again, that computer worked after you cleaned it. If you aren't going to allow the customer to clean it before they send it in for repairs, surprise!, you get to!

They didn't dumb bags of shit directly into the computer so stop making that shitty analogy.
 
Kristofff said:
Again, that computer worked after you cleaned it. If you aren't going to allow the customer to clean it before they send it in for repairs, surprise!, you get to!

They didn't dumb bags of shit directly into the computer so stop making that shitty analogy.
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Worked the first time I cleaned it, didn't work the second time.

What if you do allow the customer to clean it, but they break it in the process... then what? Customer bitches at you because you said they could open to clean it, but then they broke it because they didn't know what they were doing. Void the warranty because it's not your fault? Or not the void the warranty because you shouldn't have let them open it up in the first place.

Your logic is moronic.
 
Blazestorm said:
Worked the first time I cleaned it, didn't work the second time.

What if you do allow the customer to clean it, but they break it in the process... then what? Customer bitches at you because you said they could open to clean it, but then they broke it because they didn't know what they were doing. Void the warranty because it's not your fault? Or not the void the warranty because you shouldn't have let them open it up in the first place.

Your logic is moronic.
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YOU DONT LET THEM OPEN IT THEN YOU GET TO CLEAN IT OFF BEFORE YOU FIX IT I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND
 
Eh I think that's the time I uploaded them, I checked the EXIF data and they didn't make sense either...

It's a long story, but my brother moved out a few times and has moved back... and that computer sat around a while before I cleaned it.

I do know he wasn't gone more than half a year between the two times I cleaned it... this most recent time it didn't get dirty at all because now he can't smoke inside... but the VGA card died and he's too cheap to buy a new one...
 
Blazestorm said:
Eh I think that's the time I uploaded them, I checked the EXIF data and they didn't make sense either...

It's a long story, but my brother moved out a few times and has moved back... and that computer sat around a while before I cleaned it.

I do know he wasn't gone more than half a year between the two times I cleaned it... this most recent time it didn't get dirty at all because now he can't smoke inside... but the VGA card died and he's too cheap to buy a new one...
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What's EXIF? That acronym's new to me. I smoked through several PC's, and I have to say I never had anything that looked as bad as those. I did clean them every 6 months (maybe a year). Your brother must power through a pack while he's at home :eek:

I know that even now, my fans get a healthy layer of dirt on them within 6 months. Same thing happens with my mothers machine (not as bad as your brothers, but I don't like to wait a year between cleanings).
 
EXIF is info stored by the camera every time you take a picture... it's stored in each JPEG

It tells you the date the camera took the picture (or whatever the camera's time/date was set at)... but if my camera's date was wrong then it wouldn't be accurate either...

Him and his roommate did smoke a lot though...
 
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