Smoking Near Apple Computers Voids Warranty

I gotta side with Apple. I dread fixing my mother's computer.. it sits there in the dustiest corner of her house while she breathes smoke into it every ten seconds.

Dust + smoke + pet hair = horrifying mess that no one should have to deal with.

I don't even try and clean her fans, I just replace them. It's terrible. The crud forms a layer on everything in the path of the air flow. Oh and it's not like normal dust.. it's stickier and black. So disgusting. I keep having the recurring fear that it's some kind of mold that's going to get in my lungs and kill me slow.

And then it makes my apartment smell like an ashtray when you turn it on. I hate it. If it was anyone other than Mi Madre I wouldn't even try to do the work.

Treating your computer like that much crap should (and apparently now, can) void any warranties.

And just to be clear I'm talking about really really funky ass PC's.. Thinking about now, do we really trust Apple to be able to make intelligent distinctions? (app store approval?)
 
Just got off the phone with Apple. According to the tech that I spoke with, who put me on hold for ever to talk to legal, said that smoking around your Mac does not void the warranty and is not classified as bio hazard. Who ever these people dealt with just didn't want to work. Apple's stance is that the only time that would happen is if the cause of the problem is directly related to tar buildup. The tech said that such things as heat related or fan failures and the like could be examples of problems with tar, but the rest of the machine would still be covered. So breath easy (no pun intended) Mac Heads you still have protection.
 
A tip for those cleaning PCs a can of automotive Brake cleaner works wonders and drys very fast. Most problems are with dust build up and the tars in smoke work as a binding agent compounding the problem.Brake parts cleaner will clean it off in seconds.;)
 
LOWBOY said:
A tip for those cleaning PCs a can of automotive Brake cleaner works wonders and drys very fast. Most problems are with dust build up and the tars in smoke work as a binding agent compounding the problem.Brake parts cleaner will clean it off in seconds.;)
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!!!NO DON'T DO THIS BLINDLY!!!

If it's tetrachloraethylene based brake cleaner, then it will probably be fine, as that is basically dry cleaning fluid. Most "non chlorinated" and chlorinated cleaners will eat through paint and melt the plastic used on most computer equipment.


Getting back on the topic. I gotta side with Apple. After working on several hundred computers over the years and dealing with ones where the entire inside was sticky and yellow due to accumulated tar and dust, sometimes you just have to draw the line. In situations like this it's hard to tell the owner anything. It's a hassle if you tell them they caused the problem, it's a hassle if you deny the repair. Hard to explain to people who have never had to deal with it.
 
FYI its also against the User Agreement for the OS to smoke as well.

Unless its weed....then you have to invite jobs over.
 
spartus4 said:
Just got off the phone with Apple. According to the tech that I spoke with, who put me on hold for ever to talk to legal, said that smoking around your Mac does not void the warranty and is not classified as bio hazard. Who ever these people dealt with just didn't want to work. Apple's stance is that the only time that would happen is if the cause of the problem is directly related to tar buildup. The tech said that such things as heat related or fan failures and the like could be examples of problems with tar, but the rest of the machine would still be covered. So breath easy (no pun intended) Mac Heads you still have protection.
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Which is kind of what I was saying. If it's evident that the smoking was the cause of whatever problem exists, I wouldn't expect it to be covered (same with dust, water, etc.).
 
Their techs seem to be a bunch of babies. I did bench support for almost 10 years with a majority of the machines, needing to be worked on, coming from the several low income trailer parks in the area. I'd say 80% were from heavy smokers residences and we fixed every single one of them. Put some gloves on and do your job ya sissy.
 
I as other here have worked in a pc shop for 9 years and the smokers pcs are heavily tarred and the fans lock up , also build up on the boards themselves cause heating issues, the warranty don't need to specifically say smoking voids the warranty , its common sense.
The pc is damaged by something the customer did and not a factory issue. Regardless if its smoking or spilling water on it.....the customer caused the damage , its not even a debate worth having and in the 9 years I worked as a tech , I never had a smoker fight it.....
People who are upset over this are not thinking clearly.

Smokers always whining how everyone is out to get them and the world persecutes them.....well duh ....your actions have results that directly affect other people and products.
Ignorance is mixed with tobacco I guess...

But hey....not all smoker are dopes....My parents both smoke and yes I think they are absolutely stupid and ignorant.....no wait, yeah they are dopes too.
 
This is why apple has to patent the icigarette, you know the one otherwise known as the e-cigarette:

http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/

Warning... These are probably more addictive than crack.

I don't know what the big fuss is about smoking next to your PC. I never did it when I smoked, typing and games were just too hard fumbling with a cigarette in hand or mouth... Besides fire and wires just never went together well... Wait that was a standard wasn't it... Oh well...
 
My neighbor's house caught on fire a few years back... You should have seen the mess inside of their Dell tower. That was a mess of epic proportions and it took me 2-3 hours to clean. I can see why people would have a problem with it, although I think putting that in warranty terms is a bit silly.
 
If someone was vaporizing pure tar and other gunk next to their PC it would void warranty. Cigarettes also vaporize tar and lots of other gunk including some highly carcinogenic substances, voiding warranty and forming a health hazard long after it has formed the film of gunk inside the PC.

Handling the insides of a PC exposed to cigarette smoke for extended periods of time requires a face mask with filter and gloves at a minimum. No employer could legally force its employees to work in such conditions without offering hazard pay, additional (extensive) safety training and increased benefits, not to mention ensure the environment isn't adversely affected by the pollution introduced by dislodging the gunk inside the PC.

Anyone who thinks that Apple isn't within their rights here has no clue about the contents of cigarette smoke and about the handling of dangerous substances, especially for extended periods of time.
 
djgizmo said:
I'm sorry, how is the TYPICAL APPLE user going to know this. It DOE NOT STATE THIS IN THE MANUAL or WARRANTY for an IMAC. It may be common sense to you and me, but to APPLE users, it's one of THEIR selling points that they don't have to be computer oriented.

Also, opening a case from most computer companies, such as Dell / HP / APPLE typically voids the warranty as well.

So what is a customer to do? Void his or her warranty (which they may have paid EXTRA for) or not void it and take it in for repair as that is all the know how to do.

Also, APPLE macbooks are NOT meant to be opened up by the consumer for the most part. They are a self contained unit for the most part.

Personally, I find this whole voiding the warranty a bit of bullshit. Can't any of these apple care stores afford a shop vac? Seriously?! Take the dam shop vac, suck out all the dust, and call it a day with the 'hazardous' material bullshit.
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I'm sorry - but the Applecare Protection Plan specifically states that:

"Subject to these Terms and Conditions, your Plan (i) covers defects for the Apple- branded product(s) listed in your Planʼs Certificate or Proof of Coverage document (“Plan Confirmation”) and the accessories that are contained in the product(s) original packaging (“Covered Equipment”), and (ii) provides you with access to telephone support and web-based support resources for the Covered Equipment."
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It specifically states, in the warranty terms that:
" Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;"
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This text is also included in the "limited warranty" sheet included with all apple products. The warranty protects against *DEFECTS*. Ruining your computer, whether it's smoking beside it, dropping water on it, incinerating it or throwing it into a raging river are in no way defects. Ignorance to what constitutes "proper" care of your machine is not sufficient to belay the warranty terms you *agree to* when you initiate the warranty.

Apple has sole rights to void the warranty if any of the terms you AGREE to are not met... Bitch about the warranty policy all you want - but this user BROKE THE RULES of the agreement... So it's not just another case of ZOMG LOL IGNORANT APPLE LOLOLOLOLO but a case of ignorant consumer.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how you're supposed to open and clean a Macbook without voiding the warranty.
 
I hate Apple and I agree with them on this. If you smoke around something a lot it's pretty destructive. Smoke outside you dirty fuckers.
 
huddy said:
My neighbor's house caught on fire a few years back... You should have seen the mess inside of their Dell tower. That was a mess of epic proportions and it took me 2-3 hours to clean. I can see why people would have a problem with it, although I think putting that in warranty terms is a bit silly.
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Did you just compare a house burning down to second hand smoke?
 
Arcygenical said:
I'm sorry - but the Applecare Protection Plan specifically states that:



It specifically states, in the warranty terms that:


This text is also included in the "limited warranty" sheet included with all apple products. The warranty protects against *DEFECTS*. Ruining your computer, whether it's smoking beside it, dropping water on it, incinerating it or throwing it into a raging river are in no way defects. Ignorance to what constitutes "proper" care of your machine is not sufficient to belay the warranty terms you *agree to* when you initiate the warranty.

Apple has sole rights to void the warranty if any of the terms you AGREE to are not met... Bitch about the warranty policy all you want - but this user BROKE THE RULES of the agreement... So it's not just another case of ZOMG LOL IGNORANT APPLE LOLOLOLOLO but a case of ignorant consumer.
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How does that explain refusal to repair it at all and crying wolf about bio-hazards being the reason for refusal?
 
Yet another reason why I won't give Apple a dime even though I don't smoke. This is just asinine.
 
smoke of any kind contains particles that will break your mechanical hard drives. The thing most people miss when they talk about the older computers not having as much of problem is two things. One back in the nineties and earlier the components were designed to work at room temperature as the boards single layer and relatively simple in design.The other is that cig contained a faction of tar that they from '87 forward.

The moon launch computers is a red herring, one they were vacuum tubes not transistors, two they were housed in huge computer rooms that were climate controlled, what they guys smoked around were dumb terminals, kinda like smoking around a type writer and tv set it would take twenty to thirty years to corrode them to point they stop being functional. As simple as the connections were I'm not even sure smoke would have caused problems over a short period of time. As far as hard drives go lol I feel old I think they were still on punch cards at that time.
 
Agent.Nihilist said:
Are there really that many people out there that think heavy Smoke residue shouldn't really affect warranty?

While I agree that light smoke residue shouldn't, heavy defiantly should.
I work Computer repair - these things get NASTY. The last one I had to clean out was a less than year old - we built it for a client. He had contaminated it so badly that the fans couldn't get any air into the case, the heatsinks were clogged and the PSU had died from heat death.

Not cleaning out systems regularly is ABUSE whether its from dust or smoke. It leads to heat death of components and should not be covered by warranty. (obviously this needs to be applied with reason - I run into plenty of machines with light smoke build up that are fine with regular cleaning)


As for Apples reasoning - I agree with it. The dust from smoke residue can be very easily inhaled and exposes you to high levels of nicotine and tar - compounded with what ever else hand bonded to it with the rest of the dust. Pesticides, roach droppings, chemical cleaners are in higher concentration due to how the tar causes the dust to bind.
I wear a protective mask anytime I deal with those systems.
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I'm pretty sure there are far worse things than smoke residue/dust inside most PC cases. Besides, they make masks. If you're worried about the dust getting in your nose, then wear one.
 
bangmal said:
apple is retarded, the apple fanboys are even more retarded.
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I agree, Apple is retarded, however Apple is one filthy rich retard. I sometimes wish I was that retarded.................sometimes................ ;)

If the smoke damage was so extensive that it caused hardware to die, however hard I find that to believe, I agree, Apple should not honor the warranty. But, if Apple does not allow you to open up and clean your Mac or Mac book without voiding your warranty, or spell it out in clear terms that smoking near your Mac book can void your warranty, I don't see how they can really justify not honoring it.

I smoked for years and never had any build up in my computers or on my monitors. Of course, I always took an air can to my computers every month, and wiped my monitor's screen off at least weekly. But, building my own, I never had to worry voiding my warranty by opening the case.
 
I used to work at a PC service shop and we got all kinds of disgusting systems in and what sucked is that many times when we RMA a defective part and it was covered in unidentifiable gunk, it was either turned down or in advanced RMA, we were billed when they received the failed part. They classifiy that as USER ABUSE. The tar and dust combination is electrically conductive and can cause shorts as well as ruining the cooling devices and frying the CPU while dust alone is not conductive

If you never replace or refill the oil in your car and the engine seizes, the manufacturer will not honor the warranty! Like you do a car, keep your system properly maintained and cleaned. That is YOUR responsibility

For those of you that say this is total BS and biased and illegal, put yourselves in the shoes of the techs, the stores and the manufacturers and try to imagine what they have to go through with such dirty, neglected systems. The user has made a conscious decision to heavily smoke around his system. ignorance is no excuse.

You users who do not properly maintain your systems, let crap build up inside, don't consider the environment you are putting your system in have absolutely no right to protest us unless you have been somewhere in the line of tech>store>manufacturer and dealt with people who are careless with their systems, blame all their misfortunes on us and expect us to replace it so they can start the whole process over again and be back another day. HOW DARE YOU!
 
huddy said:
My neighbor's house caught on fire a few years back... You should have seen the mess inside of their Dell tower. That was a mess of epic proportions and it took me 2-3 hours to clean. I can see why people would have a problem with it, although I think putting that in warranty terms is a bit silly.
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Home owner's or renter's insurance would cover the damaged system in such a case
 
One more thing. This proves that second-hand smoke can effect other people. If the smoke is gumming up the insides of your PC, then it is likely progressively gumming up your lungs.
 
NeghVar said:
One more thing. This proves that second-hand smoke can effect other people. If the smoke is gumming up the insides of your PC, then it is likely progressively gumming up your lungs.
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Don't need to see the long time effects of smoke on a PC to figure that out. Hell your snot picks up alot of smoke residue when you're around smoke, cigarette or otherwise. Gets pretty noticable after a mere 5 mins or so.
 
Aren't a lot of apple users stoners?

How did they find out smokers live in the house?

The new front for the apple store.

inventing-chocolate-salty-balls.jpg
 
I nominate "Cleanupdate1" for best picture. The dampness from whatever cleaning agent you used only drives the point home.
 
NeghVar said:
One more thing. This proves that second-hand smoke can effect other people. If the smoke is gumming up the insides of your PC, then it is likely progressively gumming up your lungs.
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Oh please- People who work in the automotive trades deal with far worse hazards then a bit of crap stuck to the inside of a PC.
 
The discussion of whether or not second-hand smoke residue is nasty or screws up machines is besides the point, in a legal sense. Similarly, points about the rights of the tech are legally moot. Is it unhealthy? Sure. Is it unfair to the tech? Sure. But none of that matters. As far as courts would see this, it's all about legal obligations to a consumer under a warranty.
Apple is perfectly within their rights to refuse to honor machines with smoke residue . . .if they specifically write that into their warranty stipulations. But if they didn't, and it appears that they in fact didn't, then they don't have a legal leg to stand on. Not one single bit of the warranty terms Arcygenical posted would hold up in court as precluding the machine being used in a smoker's home without voiding the warranty. You could hardly specify a smoking home as "an extreme environment", given that the number of people that smoke and the fact that it's legal. Similarly, the bit about not smoking next to your machine is irrelevant - unless there are cigarette ashes or burns on the box, they can't show you did anything other than smoke in the same house as your Apple. All the verbal gymnastics in the world isn't going to get a court to see this as anything other than not meeting warranty obligations. Them being in Cali with it's liberal laws doesn't affect squat either, as their warranty is nationwide.
The sole exception to this would be if they could show the courts that your smoke residue was the specific cause of the malfunction. If your fan clogged with tar (like your lungs, I might add - make no mistake, smoking is damned foolish!), and your PC overheated and crashed because of it, you voided the warranty. But, following long establish precedent with the automotive industry, unless they can prove your smoking directly responsible for the problem . . . then it's their problem under warranty.
It probably won't happen, because it isn't financially worthwhile and Apple has a huge stable of lawyers, but there is certainly the makings of a nice lawsuit here if any of these folks felt like pressing the issue.

-Tuthmose
 
Tuthmose said:
The discussion of whether or not second-hand smoke residue is nasty or screws up machines is besides the point, in a legal sense. Similarly, points about the rights of the tech are legally moot. Is it unhealthy? Sure. Is it unfair to the tech? Sure. But none of that matters. As far as courts would see this, it's all about legal obligations to a consumer under a warranty.
-Tuthmose
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The warranty states:

" Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), unauthorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes;"
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Smoke damage would fall under abuse or neglect (or, for that matter, extreme environment or poor maintenance). It can very easily be denied under warranty and they can do so perfectly legally.

They don't have to specify "smoke" any more than they have to specify "rum & coke spilled directly into the power supply". They merely have to define it broadly.

The warranty covers defects, not failure caused by external influences. A machine that fails due to tar build up on cooling components or drives did not fail due to a hardware defect, it failed due to environmental conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer.
 
As a follow-up. . .

The statement made about auto warranties only applies to after market parts and such added to the car can only be said to void the warranty if they were the cause.

This would be more akin to you failing to maintain the vehicle and it died. If you scratch the shit out of your paint, leave exposed metal and it rusts through,they aren't going to cover your car under any body perforation clauses in the warranty.
 
ekierce said:
The warranty states:
The warranty covers defects, not failure caused by external influences. A machine that fails due to tar build up on cooling components or drives did not fail due to a hardware defect, it failed due to environmental conditions beyond the control of the manufacturer.
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And that's my point - Apple has to prove that your smoking caused the failure. Unless there is more to the story than the original post showed, they didn't do that, but rather simply refused the machines because they showed evidence of being in smoking homes. As I said above, if the tar caused the problem, sure - warranty is dead as dirt. But simply having a smoker's smell and some goo inside isn't enough to show cause-effect in court. If such smoker's residue exists, but your CPU crapped out or your HDD died, they can't legally or plausibly claim that wasn't a "defect". Thus, they owe you some warranty work.

You'd also never be able to show that smoking in a house constitutes "abuse or neglect" of a piece of electronics in that home. No court on the planet would buy that lame-ass argument.

ekierce said:
This would be more akin to you failing to maintain the vehicle and it died.
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Not really, since you aren't allowed to open the case and clean it without similarly voiding the warranty, thus you didn't fail to maintain it. To carry your analogy further, that would be like saying that you aren't allowed to open your hood without voiding the warranty, but then voiding your warranty for failing to change your oil.

I maintain that there is legally actionable failure to meet contract conditions here, if anybody wanted to pursue it.

-Tuthmose
 
I've seen enough computers from homes where the owners smoke heavily to actually see Apple justifying this one. Ever see what happens to a white computer after 2 years of being near a smoker? It turns brown. I remember when I worked for Geek Squad (yuck) a guy brought in a 2 year old Vaio desktop. That thing looked so disgusting that I was afraid to open it up. When I did, it took all I had not to throw up.
 
Shayneox said:
I as other here have worked in a pc shop for 9 years and the smokers pcs are heavily tarred and the fans lock up , also build up on the boards themselves cause heating issues, the warranty don't need to specifically say smoking voids the warranty , its common sense.
The pc is damaged by something the customer did and not a factory issue. Regardless if its smoking or spilling water on it.....the customer caused the damage , its not even a debate worth having and in the 9 years I worked as a tech , I never had a smoker fight it.....
People who are upset over this are not thinking clearly.

Smokers always whining how everyone is out to get them and the world persecutes them.....well duh ....your actions have results that directly affect other people and products.
Ignorance is mixed with tobacco I guess...

But hey....not all smoker are dopes....My parents both smoke and yes I think they are absolutely stupid and ignorant.....no wait, yeah they are dopes too.
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Was it computers that your company built and warrantied, or were you just taking any computers that were brought in? If it's the second, then that makes a big difference. It's one thing when a 3rd party basically says you caused it, but it's another when its your brand and the customer assumes that you are just ducking warranty.

I've seen systems where the green mainboard looked amber from the tar, and fans looked like they haven't moved in months due to the tar, and there's obvious burnmarks from capacitors and transformers failing. Even if you show them how it's supposed to look they still expect you to eat it 'Because it's good customer service' or they have spent thousands and thousands and never will again if we don't honor it. The Apple story sounds specifically like this. Heck, it's gotten to the consumerist level after corporate told him how it was. I just really want to see the inside of the system to see how it was.
 
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