Smoking Near Apple Computers Voids Warranty

Kristofff said:
A PC next to a stove is not a mundane situation.
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I didn't say it was next to the stove and PC's are becoming much more common in kitchen areas. Hell I could point out Dell and ads from other companies showing them in kitchen settings.

Apple is baked on this if they try and fight it and I'll give you an example.

When I was working for Chrylser we had a customer actually blow the caps of a Dana rear in a dually 4x4 pickup. Now if you have ever seen one of these modern Danas they are one big ass piece of steel that are unbreakable as anvils but this guy mananged to bust it and Chrysler refused to replace it.

Now when it was inquired about how this happend they guy explained that his multi-ton tractor got stuck in the mud and he used the truck to rip it out. He pointed out since Dodge made a TV ad showing a Dodge Ram pulling a train, that a tractor should be no problem.

Chrysler replaced the rear at no charge, the regional rep told me they were cooked if it ever went to court.

If Apple tries to go to court and explain that someone smoking is extream abuse I think they will get laughed right out of the room.
 
gdonovan said:
If Apple tries to go to court and explain that someone smoking is extream abuse I think they will get laughed right out of the room.
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A system dying from overheating/shorts/clogged mechanics due to exposure to a lot of smoke isn't abuse?

Man, you guys keep amazing me :eek:
 
I've received confirmation that if you smoke Apple's cigarette and cigar brand it won't void your warranty, each pack of Apple cigarette's and cigars cost $120, including inhumane tax, Apple tax, and not including proprietary lighters. If you don't light your Apple branded cigar or cigarette with the Apple proprietary lighter you will still void your warranty for the computer and also void warranty for your Apple branded cigar and cigarettes.
 
Elledan said:
A system dying from overheating/shorts/clogged mechanics due to exposure to a lot of smoke isn't abuse?

Man, you guys keep amazing me :eek:
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There is a huge difference between maintaining ones system while smoking around it by regularly blowing and cleaning it of dust and nicotine accumulation and outright denying ones warranty because you can tell they havee smoked around it. I understand what it is you are trying to get at, but I have yet to read where the user had abused his system by letting dust and nicotine accumulate to the point of causing overheating to the system and resulting in system failure.
 
PMildren said:
There is a huge difference between maintaining ones system while smoking around it by regularly blowing and cleaning it of dust and nicotine accumulation and outright denying ones warranty because you can tell they havee smoked around it. I understand what it is you are trying to get at, but I have yet to read where the user had abused his system by letting dust and nicotine accumulate to the point of causing overheating to the system and resulting in system failure.
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Actually that is a pretty common occurrence, I had to work on a few systems like that myself in the past. At least one of the Mac systems being discussed was suffering from overheating as well. The dying HDD in the other Mac system could easily have been caused by smoke residue as well.
 
She said that the computer is beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke! She said the hard drive is about to fail, the optical drive has failed and it isn't feasible to repair the computer under the warranty.
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First of all hard drives are Hemetically sealed so smoke or any dust particles cannot get at sensitive parts of the equipment. Second of all a failed drive and optical drives are not expensive to replace, You could get a decent brand 1Tb hdd and a DL-DVD drive for about £70-80 OEM, i'd hardly call that beyond "economical repair"

It's the same old story, Apple taking customers for a ride, the systems are already way overpriced for the hardware you get, and they're built in such a way to make upgrades expensive. They just want people to buy a brand new mac.

Mac users deserve whatever they get :)
 
PrincessFrosty said:
First of all hard drives are Hemetically sealed so smoke or any dust particles cannot get at sensitive parts of the equipment.
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Not true. HDDs have a breathing hole covered by a filter to equalize the pressure in- and outside the HDD casing. Fine enough particles, such as those you would find in cigarette smoke may pass through in large enough quantities to cause damage.

There's also the issue of the electric conductivity of smoke residue. With today's high-density SMD components, there's a good chance a thick enough layer of smoke residue will conduct enough electricity to short out and possibly permanently damage the controller PCB of a HDD.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Oh dude is that is beyond disgusting.
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Tell me about it. Straight to the garbage with that one.

Almost worse than that, a fanta strawberry soda. You can't GET the sticky out of that.

That keyboard was retired to second string, still works, but even after a trip to the dishwasher, it's nobodies friend.

Oh, and I call bullshit on the apple care rep saying that the hard drive was ruined by cigarette smoke, they're sealed. Unless it was submerged in tar and allowed to go past it's critical failure temperature range, it's bullshit.
 
Kristofff said:
Spilling drinks on computers is not common. Smoking in houses is. Are you done yet?
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Spilling drinks is common. Smoking is common. Spilling a drink on a computer damages it. Smoking around a computer damages it over time. If you spill a drink on a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. If you smoke around a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. The computer was not built to have drinks spilled in it nor was it built to have residue from cigarette smoke build up in it. I really don't understand why you can't get this through your head.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Spilling drinks is common. Smoking is common. Spilling a drink on a computer damages it. Smoking around a computer damages it over time. If you spill a drink on a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. If you smoke around a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. The computer was not built to have drinks spilled in it nor was it built to have residue from cigarette smoke build up in it. I really don't understand why you can't get this through your head.
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BUT applecare is an OPTIONAL purchased coverage plan that allows you to get the laptop repaired, no matter what....

Nowhere in applecare's terms and conditions does it read about smoke.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Spilling drinks is common. Smoking is common. Spilling a drink on a computer damages it. Smoking around a computer damages it over time. If you spill a drink on a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. If you smoke around a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. The computer was not built to have drinks spilled in it nor was it built to have residue from cigarette smoke build up in it. I really don't understand why you can't get this through your head.
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Your attempt to analogize the two is funny. They aren't even remotely similar. Spills can occur all over the house but unless they are spilled directly onto the laptop components it doesn't matter. Smokign while using a computer is going to send smoke through it every single time.


Hence "smoking inside" is only comparable to "spilling on laptop", not "spilling in inane and irrelevant places". And, since spilling on the laptop is NOT a common scenario like smoking inside it, your whole argument fails before you even started trying to elaborately weave it into something more than the bullshit it is.
 
Also, the obvious being that a spill destroying components also isn't comparable to residue build up being icky. Remember, residue doesn't mean there is damage, nor that any damage is necessarily caused by the residue.
 
Kahnvex said:
Oh, and I call bullshit on the apple care rep saying that the hard drive was ruined by cigarette smoke, they're sealed.
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HARD DISKS AREN'T SEALED!!

Geez, why do people keep spouting such nonsense? Obviously they don't bother to read the thread/do some minimal research. Stay out of the thread if you are only going to repeat myths.

Kristofff said:
Also, the obvious being that a spill destroying components also isn't comparable to residue build up being icky. Remember, residue doesn't mean there is damage, nor that any damage is necessarily caused by the residue.
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A spilled drink doesn't necessarily kill electronics either. Spilling a drink is an accident, however. Smoking is abuse. To one's own body, to those around the smoker, to fabrics, electronics and much more.

Nobody smokes by accident. Everybody knows smoking is bad for oneself and one's environment. Those who do not really missed a junction somewhere along the path of evolution.
 
Elledan said:
HARD DISKS AREN'T SEALED!!

Geez, why do people keep spouting such nonsense? Obviously they don't bother to read the thread/do some minimal research. Stay out of the thread if you are only going to repeat myths.



A spilled drink doesn't necessarily kill electronics either. Spilling a drink is an accident, however. Smoking is abuse. To one's own body, to those around the smoker, to fabrics, electronics and much more.

Nobody smokes by accident. Everybody knows smoking is bad for oneself and one's environment. Those who do not really missed a junction somewhere along the path of evolution.
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They're sealed for all intents and purposes of the word. There are no open holes that aren't covered by something. If you want to wax semantics then fine, but a hole with a sticker covering it with a filter to equalize pressure could also be called a seal in the conventional sense of the word. If they weren't sealed then pulling off the sticker wouldn't make a difference, right? an open hole without a cover is fine on a hard drive? stuff a little piece of foam in there and good to go, right?

You don't need to get all huffy there, Mr Thread Police. I didn't say "hermetically sealed", I'm aware of the difference.
 
Kahnvex said:
They're sealed for all intents and purposes of the word. There are no open holes that aren't covered by something. If you want to wax semantics then fine, but a hole with a sticker covering it with a filter to equalize pressure could also be called a seal in the conventional sense of the word. If they weren't sealed then pulling off the sticker wouldn't make a difference, right? an open hole without a cover is fine on a hard drive? stuff a little piece of foam in there and good to go, right?

You don't need to get all huffy there, Mr Thread Police. I didn't say "hermetically sealed", I'm aware of the difference.
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Sealed implies no contact between the in- and outside of the HDD. In reality only large and medium-sized particles are filtered out, small particles and air has free access to the inside of the HDD. That isn't 'sealed' other than in the sense that you require tools to get your fat fingers inside.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Spilling drinks is common. Smoking is common. Spilling a drink on a computer damages it. Smoking around a computer damages it over time. If you spill a drink on a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. If you smoke around a computer the manufacturer should not have to replace it. The computer was not built to have drinks spilled in it nor was it built to have residue from cigarette smoke build up in it. I really don't understand why you can't get this through your head.
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Apple's warranty says that it doesn't cover the Pepsi Syndrome, it doesn't say anything about smoking.

Furthermore, as a consumer product, one would assume it does cover smoke. My TV is covered if I smoke. My phone is covered. My refrigerator is covered. My stereo is covered. Frankly, I can't think of any other piece home electronics that is not covered by the warranty if I smoke in my house.
 
Elledan said:
Sealed implies no contact between the in- and outside of the HDD. In reality only large and medium-sized particles are filtered out, small particles and air has free access to the inside of the HDD. That isn't 'sealed' other than in the sense that you require tools to get your fat fingers inside.
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AFAIK, smoke particles, like dust particles, are HUGE in the world of HD's. That's why they're made in clean rooms, to keep everything off the platters and internal parts.

If what you said is true, then dust would get into the drive and would certainly cause the heads to come into contact with dust on the platters.
 
nilepez said:
AFAIK, smoke particles, like dust particles, are HUGE in the world of HD's. That's why they're made in clean rooms, to keep everything off the platters and internal parts.

If what you said is true, then dust would get into the drive and would certainly cause the heads to come into contact with dust on the platters.
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'Dust' come in a large variety of shapes and sizes. The most common types are fibers and dead skin cells, both of which are very large: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust

Dust particles can be as large as 500 um, cigarette smoke can have particles much smaller than that:
Mainstream cigarette smoke generated using an automatic smoking machine (SEM-II) and Kentucky 2R1 reference cigarettes was analyzed for particle number concentration and size distribution. About 90% of the smoke was sampled with an Andersen Cascade Impactor after primary dilution (6-, 10-, or 18-fold). The remainder was further diluted 13,600- to 79,000-fold before analysis with an Electrical Aerosol Analyzer and Condensation Nuclei Counter. The primary dilution ratio and compositions of the dilution streams (nitrogen, laboratory air, dry air, or the vapor phase from filtered smoke) were varied in the experiments. Reliability of the experimental system was checked using NaCl aerosols. The composition of the dilution stream did not significantly affect the size distribution of the cigarette smoke for a given primary dilution ratio. The volume distribution was bimodal, with median diameters for the two modes of about 0.25 and 5 μm. The number concentration was typically 109 particles /cm3, and the supermicron particles contained 5 to 30% of the total volume. Increased particle evaporation occurred when the primary dilution ratio was increased from 6 to 18.
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http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a778185022

The smaller the particle, the greater the chance it'll find its way through a filter. For regular dust it isn't such an issue. For the occasional smaller particle it's acceptable as well. The problem with smoking next to a HDD is that smoking produces a lot of really small particles which will get through the filter and will eventually cause damage.
 
Elledan said:
Sealed implies no contact between the in- and outside of the HDD. In reality only large and medium-sized particles are filtered out, small particles and air has free access to the inside of the HDD. That isn't 'sealed' other than in the sense that you require tools to get your fat fingers inside.
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No, it doesn't, or else the term "hermetically sealed" wouldn't exist. Stop arguing semantics, its a distraction and only discredits you.
 
Elledan said:
'Dust' come in a large variety of shapes and sizes. The most common types are fibers and dead skin cells, both of which are very large: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust

Dust particles can be as large as 500 um, cigarette smoke can have particles much smaller than that:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a778185022

The smaller the particle, the greater the chance it'll find its way through a filter. For regular dust it isn't such an issue. For the occasional smaller particle it's acceptable as well. The problem with smoking next to a HDD is that smoking produces a lot of really small particles which will get through the filter and will eventually cause damage.
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You seem to be leaving out a word. "Chance", I think it is.
 
nilepez said:
Apple's warranty says that it doesn't cover the Pepsi Syndrome, it doesn't say anything about smoking.

Furthermore, as a consumer product, one would assume it does cover smoke. My TV is covered if I smoke. My phone is covered. My refrigerator is covered. My stereo is covered. Frankly, I can't think of any other piece home electronics that is not covered by the warranty if I smoke in my house.
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Here is the problem, we are rational people that still dont stimatize those that smoke. On the other hand we have those people and Apple apparently, that want to demonize those people that smoke.

What is really funny to think about is those same elitist people are the same ones that are prolly taking hits from their "smoking" product of choice behind closed doors. Bunch of elitist potheads.
 
Elledan said:
'Dust' come in a large variety of shapes and sizes. The most common types are fibers and dead skin cells, both of which are very large: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust

Dust particles can be as large as 500 um, cigarette smoke can have particles much smaller than that:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a778185022

The smaller the particle, the greater the chance it'll find its way through a filter. For regular dust it isn't such an issue. For the occasional smaller particle it's acceptable as well. The problem with smoking next to a HDD is that smoking produces a lot of really small particles which will get through the filter and will eventually cause damage.
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That's all well and good, and folks let's give some credit, Elledan is correct that HD's aren't sealed


An HD head is as close as .5 µ in (micro inches) or 0.0127 µm (microns) from the platter
Cigarette smoke particles are at least .01 microns and as large as 4.

Could smoke cause a problem? Yes, but so can typical atmospheric dust (.001 - 30 µm), and there's plenty of dust in every house.

Regardless, there is absolutely positively no way that some tech in an Apple store can look at a laptop or iMac and determine that smoke killed the HD. He has neither the tools nor the expertise to make that determination.
 
Kristofff said:
You seem to have mistaken a catastrophic incidences with common scenarios.
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Apparently there is some consensus here that cigarette smoke residue is catastrophic to electronics, which I suppose is not surprising to me. Each puff of a ciggarrette is comparable to the spilling of a drink, though obviously on a much smaller scale.

With this statement, you've tried to establish a strong concept of dissimilarity between accidental damage and incidental damage (that which is caused by indoor smoking). Both fall under the category of neglect, however, and thus are quite similar.

I would imagine that Apple's warranty has at least some basic statement regarding neglect and what Apple's responsibilities are when a consumer's Apple product has been subjected to significant neglect.
 
PMildren said:
What is really funny to think about is those same elitist people are the same ones that are prolly taking hits from their "smoking" product of choice behind closed doors. Bunch of elitist potheads.
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Grats! You have discovered that within every demographic, there are hypocrites! Doesn't help much with the argument side of things though :p
 
This whole thread is mostly pointless. For Apple to deny someone their warranty due to the owner smoking around the computer is really just another way that Apple is exerting its ability to make its political views known while screwing over its customers.

As has been pointed out:
Smoking near electronics in general is not a good idea
All electronics are going to build up dust, dirt, nicotine/ tar(if owner smokes around machine) with out proper maintenance
Even air has particulates in it large enough to cause damage to disk and head of HDD

All Apple has done is told the owner that they dont condone his/her smoking behavior and will not support them in their repairs.
 
phide said:
Apparently there is some consensus here that cigarette smoke residue is catastrophic to electronics, which I suppose is not surprising to me. Each puff of a ciggarrette is comparable to the spilling of a drink, though obviously on a much smaller scale.

With this statement, you've tried to establish a strong concept of dissimilarity between accidental damage and incidental damage (that which is caused by indoor smoking). Both fall under the category of neglect, however, and thus are quite similar.

I would imagine that Apple's warranty has at least some basic statement regarding neglect and what Apple's responsibilities are when a consumer's Apple product has been subjected to significant neglect.
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It's not neglect. I smoked around my PCs for 10 years, and not one of them died. The worst thing that happened was a fan in one PSU (the POS psu that came with an in-win 500 case) died after 4 or 5 years and the fan on my nvidia ti200 died after about 5 years (and, but I only smoked for the first year or so of it's life....and it still works, even without a fan....the PSU still works with a new fan).

And again, I've never heard of a manufacturer refusing to fix a TV because it's in a smokey room. Nor have I heard of them voiding the warranty. Does NCR tell bars that there's no warranty on registers unless the bars are smoke free? Most of those registers are just computers with touch screens.

Smoking isn't good for computers, but IME they generally work fine during the warranty period.
 
nilepez said:
It's not neglect. I smoked around my PCs for 10 years, and not one of them died. The worst thing that happened was a fan in one PSU (the POS psu that came with an in-win 500 case) died after 4 or 5 years and the fan on my nvidia ti200 died after about 5 years (and, but I only smoked for the first year or so of it's life....and it still works, even without a fan....the PSU still works with a new fan).

And again, I've never heard of a manufacturer refusing to fix a TV because it's in a smokey room. Nor have I heard of them voiding the warranty. Does NCR tell bars that there's no warranty on registers unless the bars are smoke free? Most of those registers are just computers with touch screens.

Smoking isn't good for computers, but IME they generally work fine during the warranty period.
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Different companies have different policies.
 
SixtyWattMan said:
Different companies have different policies.
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And Apples policy does nothing for them but push their political view on smokers. Sounds like another good add compaign for PCs.

"Do you live in perfect or sterile conditions? Than a MAC maybe right up your alley, if you dont want to void your warranty. If your not interested in living in a clean room, or have the occasional cigar or cigarrette smoking friend over or if your a smoker yourself, get a PC. We wont deny your warranty just because your not a tree hugging, dop smoking, politically correct Apple fanboi or in current keepings with their ideals."
 
PMildren said:
And Apples policy does nothing for them but push their political view on smokers. Sounds like another good add compaign for PCs.

"Do you live in perfect or sterile conditions? Than a MAC maybe right up your alley, if you dont want to void your warranty. If your not interested in living in a clean room, or have the occasional cigar or cigarrette smoking friend over or if your a smoker yourself, get a PC. We wont deny your warranty just because your not a tree hugging, dop smoking, politically correct Apple fanboi or in current keepings with their ideals."
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What if you take the laptop into space? :D
 
PMildren said:
And Apples policy does nothing for them but push their political view on smokers. Sounds like another good add compaign for PCs.

"Do you live in perfect or sterile conditions? Than a MAC maybe right up your alley, if you dont want to void your warranty. If your not interested in living in a clean room, or have the occasional cigar or cigarrette smoking friend over or if your a smoker yourself, get a PC. We wont deny your warranty just because your not a tree hugging, dop smoking, politically correct Apple fanboi or in current keepings with their ideals."
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How exactly can a software company (Microsoft) make those claims about another company's (e.g. Dell or HP) warranty?
 
nilepez said:
How exactly can a software company (Microsoft) make those claims about another company's (e.g. Dell or HP) warranty?
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Who said anything about software, this is purely a hardware issue. Other OEM companies whether it be HP, Dell, Compaq could make these claims. I understand where you would make this assumption on Microsoft putting out a PC vs Apple/Mac, but that isnt really where I was heading with this.
 
nilepez said:
Smoking isn't good for computers, but IME they generally work fine during the warranty period.
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We don't know the specific circumstances surrounding this case, however. If you smoke in a well-ventilated room, the damage may be minimal. If there is little to no room ventilation, the damage could be catastrophic.

The fact is that Apple knows far more about this case than any of us could assume.
 
phide said:
We don't know the specific circumstances surrounding this case, however. If you smoke in a well-ventilated room, the damage may be minimal. If there is little to no room ventilation, the damage could be catastrophic.
.
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I fin it all rather amusing as my mother was a 2-3 pack a day smoker with the PC on her desk and it never had a failure.
 
gdonovan said:
I fin it all rather amusing as my mother was a 2-3 pack a day smoker with the PC on her desk and it never had a failure.
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You guys heard it straight from the horses mouth, cigarettes can under no circumstances cause a computer to fail. :rolleyes:
 
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