Slim mechanical keyboards

The low-profile keyboard I have has Kaihl browns, and I had to take some of the keys off to make sure that the stems are actually brown -- they do a perfect impression of blues.

They're also pretty stiff, and the click occurs before actuation which is annoying, but overall it works.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
but on a desktop, what is the value? It's not as if we have limited space to the ceiling.
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Back in the day, when OEMs were producing low-profile desktop cases (lie-flat ones, that is, before tower cases were really a thing), someone in a review made a comment about low-profile cases really only being useful if you had low-flying planes in your office.
 
You guys wanna see some low-profile switches? (found here: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-olkb-planck-light-mechanical-keyboard, although the keyboard itself is not terribly low-profile. Also it's only a 40% and doesn't have separate F-keys, and is orthogonal. But I believe you can actually find those switches themselves elsewhere. The caps, too, but I'm not sure.)
 

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1_rick said:
Back in the day, when OEMs were producing low-profile desktop cases (lie-flat ones, that is, before tower cases were really a thing), someone in a review made a comment about low-profile cases really only being useful if you had low-flying planes in your office.
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I don't disagree. :p

I like my computing big. Unless it's supposed to be portable. Then I like it small :p
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I don't disagree.
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LOL. Looking at your other posts in this thread I see you didn't like Cherrys much relative to the older IBM keys. Have you tried any of the newer stuff like Hakos, Gaterons, etc.? I just got some Kailh Speed Coppers and I love them compared to the Cherry Reds I've been using the last few years.
 
AVT said:
Looks like the keyboard gods have finally made a keyboard which fits all of my requirements on paper.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thinnest-Wireless-Bluetooth-Mechanical-Aluminium-black/dp/B07VNKQJRK/

View attachment 207486

Anyone bought one? How are your experiences?
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I ended up buying one.

I LOVE everything about it, except bluetooth mode, which is terrible - goes to sleep far too quickly and wakes up slowly.

Thankfully, the keyboard also works in wired mode - it can be connected to USB directly without any bluetooth. Moreover, if the charging light irritates you, you can just open it up and disconnect the battery - it'll keep working in wired mode just fine. Hopefully manufacturer realizes the problem, and fixes it via firmware update.

Alternatively, I like typing on this thing so much, I just might end up modding it with either an Adafruit board or one of the other DIY bluetooth approaches.
 
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1_rick said:
Good to know that's still a problem, 15 years after the last BT keyboard I bought.
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No kidding. I don't understand why manufacturers still can't get this right, especially on a product like this keyboard with considerable attention to detail as far as design goes. And especially given that my bluetooth mouse, which is built to a similar degree of standard, has none of these problems..

Actually, that's not quite true. The mouse sometimes has a spotty connection, usually if my cell phone is near it and downloading something. Signal strength vs. energy efficiency, I guess..

At least the people designing the keyboard's internal hardware did one thing right - they made bluetooth optional, and the keyboard fully functional in wired mode over USB.
 
Mostly, Bluetooth is simply not designed for 'real-time' connections. It's a wonder that it works at all within its limitations.

Which is why most wireless peripheral makers use proprietary radios where possible. That's the only way to get zero-lag, zero-drop connections for stuff like input devices and audio devices in crowded RF environments, and they usually work by saturating the available spectrum with signal.

Would be nice if the limitations of the tech were to be addressed, i.e., the stuff should work unless there's a dozen Bluetooth devices around. As it stands, Bluetooth.. functions in crowded RF environments but it cannot take advantage of less crowded environments to provide better signal integrity.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Mostly, Bluetooth is simply not designed for 'real-time' connections. It's a wonder that it works at all within its limitations.
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Sometimes they get it right, though. I had a Think Outside BT keyboard and it had a little of that sleep/wake lag, but it wasn't nearly as bad as my Microsoft keyboard.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Mostly, Bluetooth is simply not designed for 'real-time' connections. It's a wonder that it works at all within its limitations.

Which is why most wireless peripheral makers use proprietary radios where possible. That's the only way to get zero-lag, zero-drop connections for stuff like input devices and audio devices in crowded RF environments, and they usually work by saturating the available spectrum with signal.

Would be nice if the limitations of the tech were to be addressed, i.e., the stuff should work unless there's a dozen Bluetooth devices around. As it stands, Bluetooth.. functions in crowded RF environments but it cannot take advantage of less crowded environments to provide better signal integrity.
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What do you mean it's not designed for that when bluetooth mice and keyboards - they are explicitly part of the spec? I can't imagine an engineering oversight to occur on bluetooth when it's used by that so people and companies, at least not in the past half-decade when engineering is done by standards groups. I've also heard nothing but good feedback from people that have AirPods and similar bluetooth headsets.

I think the engineering staff for this particular manufacturer simply screwed up and selected a poorly designed chip. Or, at least, I don't see why performance is not comparable to my Logitech mouse, which works seamlessly most of the time.
 
AVT said:
What do you mean it's not designed for that when bluetooth mice and keyboards - they are explicitly part of the spec?
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And yet, they perform far worse than proprietary designs.That is, proprietary designs that are indistinguishable from wired. I can run my Logitech MX in Bluetooth or with Logitech's dongle, and there's one hell of a difference in the crowded spectrum of an apartment.

AVT said:
I can't imagine an engineering oversight to occur on bluetooth when it's used by that so people and companies, at least not in the past half-decade when engineering is done by standards groups. I've also heard nothing but good feedback from people that have AirPods and similar bluetooth headsets.

I think the engineering staff for this particular manufacturer simply screwed up and selected a poorly designed chip. Or, at least, I don't see why performance is not comparable to my Logitech mouse, which works seamlessly most of the time.
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Bluetooth, when it works well (and with a lot of help from say Apple) works... pretty well. Most of the time.

It's meant to be like USB, but wireless; however, it's simply not up to the task of replacing wired in crowded RF environments, and the power-saving considerations engineered into the spec do result in significant deviations from wired performance.
 
AVT said:
We've got another contender: the Keychron K3, soon to be released.

View attachment 281276

https://www.keychron.com/pages/keychron-k3-wireless-mechanical-keyboard

While I am very happy with the typing experience on my Vinpok Taptek, I am also very unhappy about the Bluetooth experience, and have been using it in wired mode. I might pick this one up to try it out once it's released!
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I got one - almost nine months ago now!

The only hiccup I had was that the default sleep mode timer is too aggressive. However, Keychron has a very poorly documented feature where you can adjust the time before the keyboard goes into sleep mode. According to an email sent by Keychron to Reddit user karate_dev, the sleep mode timer can be modified by holding the following keys for at least four seconds.

Code: 
fn+S+L+R: Set auto sleep time to 10 mins;
fn+S+L+T: Set auto sleep time to 20 mins;
fn+S+L+Y: Set auto sleep time to 30 mins;
fn+S+O: Disable/ Enable auto sleep mode.

I can confirm this works after setting a timer in order to test it (no idea why Reddit people say it doesn't, maybe they didn't hold it long enough?). I set mine to 20 minutes, which is long enough that it more or less never goes to sleep on me while being used.

I am very, very, very happy with this keyboard with this annoyance fix in place, and will be keeping it for a long time.
 
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I just ordered a K3 with the optical red switches. I figure it'll be a good backup for my Apex Pro TKL.
 
Got my K3 today. It's a lot better than I expected for a $75 keyboard. Excellent build quality, switches are smooth, and back lighting is bright and even. Typing on it feels great. Pic is the K3 and my Apex Pro tenkeyless. I have it charging via the Apex's USB port.

PXL_20220106_193813386.jpg
 
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