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Silverstone SST-SX600-G 600w Gold SFX
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Phuncz
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Yeah, the ATX plug has long been overdue for a redesign.
HP has a "mini" ATX 24-pin plug:
That would atleast be a small improvement. It would be more manageable if the one huge cable was split into two 12-pin cables, it would ease the stress on the board while plugging and would also be easier to handle the cable bundles. With a redesign, the specs could also incorporate the larger requirement of 12V leads (ATX 4-pin and 8-pin) and give the more redundant ones he axe.
Aibohphobia
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Did some more testing of the 109P0805M702 and I don't think it'll be a suitable replacement. I hooked up a cheap fan controller so I could get finer control of the voltage and according to the multimeter I can increase the voltage up to ~2.9V and then the fan starts at which point the voltage jumps to ~3.7V.
I think this has something to do with the resistance of the fan stopped versus running but someone with electronics knowledge will have to explain that one to me. Anyway, if I drop the voltage back down to 3.0-3.1V, since that is what the PSU puts out at idle, it makes a very annoying grinding noise. Much more annoying than the chatter of the stock fan.
I think this has something to do with the resistance of the fan stopped versus running but someone with electronics knowledge will have to explain that one to me. Anyway, if I drop the voltage back down to 3.0-3.1V, since that is what the PSU puts out at idle, it makes a very annoying grinding noise. Much more annoying than the chatter of the stock fan.
thefivetheory
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It's been a few months since anyone mentioned the 295X2... I don't suppose anyone has actually tried?
Toms Hardware had an article about how they measured about 450w for the card, which kinda sorta makes me want to believe that the SX600-G might be able to cut it, since the ST45SF-G could handle the 300w 290X. I'm sort of hesitant to try it out, though. I do realize that according to AMD the 295X2 is a 500w card.
Toms Hardware had an article about how they measured about 450w for the card, which kinda sorta makes me want to believe that the SX600-G might be able to cut it, since the ST45SF-G could handle the 300w 290X. I'm sort of hesitant to try it out, though. I do realize that according to AMD the 295X2 is a 500w card.
Phuncz
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An R9 295X2 could be possible if you have no overclocks, no crazy amount of storage or fans and allow the SX600-G to properly cool itself meaning no fan mod, no intake filter, not blocking the exhaust vents.
According to eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Pro, a light-weight high performance system (mini-itx, i7 4770K, 2x DDR3 modules, single 2.5" ssd, couple of 120mm fans) with an R9 295X2 would have a recommended minimum psu of 655W, capable of supplying 55A on the 12V rail.
At regular gaming loads it'd probably work just fine, but better not put a heavy load on the system or the psu would likely shut down...
But yeah, Tom's Hardware's measurements are real-life and not calculated/estimated, so if 450W DC is really the max for the 295X2 I think it should work fine with the SX600-G, as long as you do as Phuncz says and don't try overclocking.
At regular gaming loads it'd probably work just fine, but better not put a heavy load on the system or the psu would likely shut down...
But yeah, Tom's Hardware's measurements are real-life and not calculated/estimated, so if 450W DC is really the max for the 295X2 I think it should work fine with the SX600-G, as long as you do as Phuncz says and don't try overclocking.
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Aibohphobia
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I don't think it can handle the 295X2, TechPowerUp got 500W DC load gaming and 646W max (I think running FurMark): http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_295_X2/22.html
thefivetheory
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Hmm, that's interesting since it seems like they did a similar test to TH and got vastly different results.
I want to believe it'll work but I'm scared to try in case stuff fries.
While not being an electronics engineer or similar, I can't say for sure, but as far as I know the worst that could happen is that the psu would just shut down. But don't take my word for it.
Aibohphobia
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It's supposed to have over current and over power protection but I don't think any of the reviews actually tested it.
I'm just curious how prominent is the coil whine from the sx600? I only hear the coil whine when I turn off my pc but I'm just worried that it might eventually become a problem and I'm thinking of exchanging it. Do a lot of people have units with the coil whine and deal with it or is it just a minor problem only a minority have it with others having no coil whine?
AFD
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Mine was initially during the first few minutes from a cold boot, then had it severely for a day or two (possibly related to my power delivery, or snap change in the weather, or who knows why). It was literally painful to listen to.. but after it went it away, it hasn't returned (or if it's there, it hasn't been bothering me at all). Haven't really noticed the loud whine during cold boot anymore after that either.
Just put my ear over the exhaust (not "scrutinizing" the damn thing
) and I can just barely hear it still (sounds high pitched, and slightly buzzy). This sound, like the chattery fan is very localized and directed (can hear it up to several feet away, but only with my ear facing the exhaust, and it disappears moving my head even a little). Can't hear the whine from the intake (and can't hear the fan from the exhaust).So, unless I'm standing directly over my M1 (which I never do), I don't seem to notice the whine at all. Crap.. now that I've picked up the sound, I'll probably notice it all night
(still not anywhere near as bad as it was). If I put my hands over the PSU's intake and exhaust, the whole build sounds scary quiet, though.. I'd pay big bucks if it actually sounded like that for real I have mine for a few weeks now.
It appears that it cured itself from any more sounds.
When i go it, had bad coil noise when i put the plug into it.
Started the pc, can still hear the coil noise.
But disappeared after 5-10 minutes - only if i got within 10 cm from it.
With my i7 2700k / GTX 760 with no OC / 1x SSD/HDD / 6 PWM Fans - i don't think i get it over 300-350w / 50 % load so i have no heat coming out of it when i game.
Helping it though with a case fan from the side (Ncase M1)
Also had some fan chatter in idle.
And today noticed that, after a few weeks, no more coil noise in any scenario, only if i put my ear on it.
I have my case at 30 cm from me on the table so ...
No heat , no more fan chatter and no coil noise even with this small distance from it - so for me, it's dead silent in idle and 50% load.
It's an Autobot it adapted to the owner.
Ah and i can sleep with the pc turned on, i hear the other fans and their airflow, the PSU not at all.
It appears that it cured itself from any more sounds.
When i go it, had bad coil noise when i put the plug into it.
Started the pc, can still hear the coil noise.
But disappeared after 5-10 minutes - only if i got within 10 cm from it.
With my i7 2700k / GTX 760 with no OC / 1x SSD/HDD / 6 PWM Fans - i don't think i get it over 300-350w / 50 % load so i have no heat coming out of it when i game.
Helping it though with a case fan from the side (Ncase M1)
Also had some fan chatter in idle.
And today noticed that, after a few weeks, no more coil noise in any scenario, only if i put my ear on it.
I have my case at 30 cm from me on the table so ...
No heat , no more fan chatter and no coil noise even with this small distance from it - so for me, it's dead silent in idle and 50% load.
It's an Autobot
it adapted to the owner.Ah and i can sleep with the pc turned on, i hear the other fans and their airflow, the PSU not at all.
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I am really on the fence on wether to get this or to wait for the 500W SFX-L for my upcoming M1 build.
From reading in this tread and the 500W thread+ M1 thread, it seems like the 500W one has a lot of expectation on it, but it really doesn't seem like we have any confirmation that it will actually be signifcantly better. We don't even know if the fan will be more silent.
If i get this one i can probably get a build off the ground in 3 weeks time. If i wait for the 500W it might be pushed to january. Is there any actual confirmed advantage to SFX-L? I mean the 120mm fan isn't an advantage unless it's audibly quieter.
From reading in this tread and the 500W thread+ M1 thread, it seems like the 500W one has a lot of expectation on it, but it really doesn't seem like we have any confirmation that it will actually be signifcantly better. We don't even know if the fan will be more silent.
If i get this one i can probably get a build off the ground in 3 weeks time. If i wait for the 500W it might be pushed to january. Is there any actual confirmed advantage to SFX-L? I mean the 120mm fan isn't an advantage unless it's audibly quieter.
The only advantage with SFX-L over SFX is noise (and maybe cooling efficiency due to less densely packed components), and according to Silverstone's Tony Ou, the SFX-L 500W is delayed (at least partially) because they're working hard to make it as silent as possible. Their goal is apparently to get it quieter than the SX600-G.
thefivetheory
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With a 120 mm fan I wouldn't think that'd be terribly hard to accomplish.
Yeah i saw that. But he also said that as of now (or initially, whatever) it was not more quiet than the SX600-G, so its not like we can take the 120 being more quiet for granted.
Ah.. i dun't know.
Just unboxed my spanking new M1 half an hour ago
Earlier today i wasn't sure, but after that I think I'll go with the SX600-G. I think my lack of patience outway the possible upsides of the 500 at this point.And, with the Ncase "steambox" on the horizon, I might need two sfx psu's at some point anyway.
thefivetheory
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Yeah i saw that. But he also said that as of now (or initially, whatever) it was not more quiet than the SX600-G, so its not like we can take the 120 being more quiet for granted.
Ah.. i dun't know.
Just unboxed my spanking new M1 half an hour ago
And, with the Ncase "steambox" on the horizon, I might need two sfx psu's at some point anyway.
FWIW I think the SX600-G is a huge improvement in the M1 over the 450w version. Still the noisest component but it is nowhere near as obnoxious as the last one.
Hmm, hadn't thought about that, good point.
Thanks. This is excatly what i was hoping. Even the 450w version seemed like a solid choice when I started to plan this build. Hadn't heard about these new ones yet at the time. And if the SX600-G is a huge improvement on my original plan it should be a no-brainer.
I think what I have here is the classic PC builders dilemma. There is always a better option in the horizon of almost any component at any given time, so even going over the top, it's going to be yesterdays news even before you break it in.
It is a hard life we live
AFD
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I think they should print that on the front of the box.. it's a perfectly accurate and honest summary
thefivetheory
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I think they should print that on the front of the box.. it's a perfectly accurate and honest summary
Haha -- "NEW! Less obnoxious fan!"
Yes, but the 80mm fan also has the thin 15mm depth. So the comparison should still hold.
I'd think it would be hard NOT to find a 120mm fan that is more efficient (cooling/noise), unless only looking at extremely cheap crap of course.
I think I've found an interesting solution to our fan problem, which I'm hoping someone will be able to replicate. To start with, I have an i5-4590k, oc'd to 4.5 gig, currently running integrated gfx, SX-600 PSU, 16 gb RAM, 2.5" HDD, SSD, and a couple of fans. For reference, my apartment is pretty cold atm - according to the shitty thermometer in my wall clock, it's 62F.
The fan in mine is the same as everyone else's, starts up after about 10 mins at idle, doesn't stop, and chatters. The chattering is really annoying to me, so I decided to point a 120mm fan (Noiseblocker S12-2, running at 12V) directly at the fan of the PSU, from a distance of 2-3 inches, to see if it would cool it down. I fired up Intel's Extreme Tuning utility, ran the stress test for 20 minutes, and to my surprise, the fan never started up!! More interestingly, I took the 120mm fan away and allowed the PSU fan to start up, then pointed the 120mm fan at it again. And it eventually stopped!!! It took probably 10-15 minutes, and the PSU fan made that "bird chirp" sound (as it does when it starts up), but it stopped!!!!
I've now turned the 120mm fan down to 7V and the PSU fan still hasn't started (only tested under idle). The PSU is making a different sound now - every 10-15 seconds, it makes a high pitched sound that last for 3-4 seconds and increases in frequency over that time. At least it's not chattering.
This setup is perfect for me because it's how I intend to set it up in my nCase M1. My only concern is that the high pitched sound is coming from a capacitor that is not receiving proper cooling. I was thinking it would get cooled better if I used a duct, perhaps like this?
The fan in mine is the same as everyone else's, starts up after about 10 mins at idle, doesn't stop, and chatters. The chattering is really annoying to me, so I decided to point a 120mm fan (Noiseblocker S12-2, running at 12V) directly at the fan of the PSU, from a distance of 2-3 inches, to see if it would cool it down. I fired up Intel's Extreme Tuning utility, ran the stress test for 20 minutes, and to my surprise, the fan never started up!! More interestingly, I took the 120mm fan away and allowed the PSU fan to start up, then pointed the 120mm fan at it again. And it eventually stopped!!! It took probably 10-15 minutes, and the PSU fan made that "bird chirp" sound (as it does when it starts up), but it stopped!!!!
I've now turned the 120mm fan down to 7V and the PSU fan still hasn't started (only tested under idle). The PSU is making a different sound now - every 10-15 seconds, it makes a high pitched sound that last for 3-4 seconds and increases in frequency over that time. At least it's not chattering.
This setup is perfect for me because it's how I intend to set it up in my nCase M1. My only concern is that the high pitched sound is coming from a capacitor that is not receiving proper cooling. I was thinking it would get cooled better if I used a duct, perhaps like this?
The noise you're referring to at the end is most likely the fan not receiving enough start up voltage. Watch the fan while its making the noise; if it turns out to be what I'm talking about, then you'll see the fan budge forward a mm or two, then go back to its original position. Mine does that noise when the fan is extremely close to start up voltage, but not quite enough to overcome the magnets.
AFD
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Nice info, thanks! And damn.. I'm using the 3.5" HDD rack in my M1, so the only airflow I would get to the PSU would be from my bottom 120mm (not sure if that would be direct enough to cause the same behavior).
If it never ever starts up even during stress testing, that would imply that it is not necessary in the setup you have. New fan mod could then be to simply remove the stock fan and use the 120mm fan on the outside of the PSU? I mean, airflow from the 120mm would even be improved without a stationary fan blocking off 50% of the intake.
"Simply" removing the stock fan voids warranty. Adding a 120mm fan might be a non-modding solution for people who have space for a 120mm anyway. Worth repeating that Ellroy says his apartment was 62F / 16C ambient.
But if we are talking about opening the unit anyway, I rather search for: a) replacement 80x15; or b) replacement enclosure to allow larger fan.
I looked for that last night. I didn't notice the fan blades moving at all. I've had it on for ~30 minutes this morning, fan running at ~7V, and the fan hasn't started up yet. No strenuous tasks though, just e-mail, web surfing etc. Can't hear the same high-pitched sound though.
I agree. But I don't want to void my warranty, and I'm still not 100% sure that all the components are getting properly cooled. And I agree with WiSK, if it's opened up, it's probably worth putting a replacement fan in there.
Obviously WiSK noticed that my apartment is cold (wish my landlord would turn the damn heat on!!), but no one noticed the other caveat - I'm running integrated graphics. It would be interesting to see if this still works with a dedicated video card and both the CPU and GPU under 100% load.
I've gone ahead and ordered the duct to use in my M1 build. I assume directing all the airflow into the fan opening will work even better. I should be able to attach it without opening the unit up, so that my warranty isn't voided.
Yeah. Those 16C temperatures are significant. Didn't catch that one. Summer temps my home office can easily reach 30C when gaming.
Now that I think more about it. That high pitch sound from the fan almost starting could actually be a reason in itself to not point a fan at it. Might be worse. Not that it's going to require much effort to try it out and see.
Probably need to get the thing first and have a litsen.
Aah. Thats a big one. The power drae must be ridiculously low. I need to pay more attention to what i am reading
It's now been idling for ~50 minutes. Fan is trying to start up - the blades are moving several mm. Apartment temp is 65.4F. This is with the fan at ~7V. I'm going to stress it, will report back.
EDIT: Ran ITU for an hour. Ambient ~67-68F. PSU fan didn't spin up. PSU fan blades actually moved LESS after starting the stress test. The 120mm fan is attached to my mobo header and is speed-controlled by the BIOS (whatever ASUS' BIOS is called these days). I'm not sure which temperature the chassis fan is controlled by, but the 120mm fan speed increased as the CPU temp increased, so I can only assume it's the CPU temp. I assume this is why the PSU fan moved less.
EDIT2: Rebooted the system directly after running ITU. PSU fan is now spinning. I'm assuming this is because the 120mm fan is likely pushing less air (because the CPU is now not loaded). Looks like I'll have to increase the speed at which the 120mm fan spins, either by altering the fan profile in the BIOS, or just running it at 12V.
EDIT3: Running the 120mm fan at full speed was sufficient to get the PSU fan to shut off again
EDIT: Ran ITU for an hour. Ambient ~67-68F. PSU fan didn't spin up. PSU fan blades actually moved LESS after starting the stress test. The 120mm fan is attached to my mobo header and is speed-controlled by the BIOS (whatever ASUS' BIOS is called these days). I'm not sure which temperature the chassis fan is controlled by, but the 120mm fan speed increased as the CPU temp increased, so I can only assume it's the CPU temp. I assume this is why the PSU fan moved less.
EDIT2: Rebooted the system directly after running ITU. PSU fan is now spinning. I'm assuming this is because the 120mm fan is likely pushing less air (because the CPU is now not loaded). Looks like I'll have to increase the speed at which the 120mm fan spins, either by altering the fan profile in the BIOS, or just running it at 12V.
EDIT3: Running the 120mm fan at full speed was sufficient to get the PSU fan to shut off again
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Aah. Thats a big one. The power drae must be ridiculously low. I need to pay more attention to what i am reading
I'll be getting a GTX 970, once the one I want is in stock. I can report back with my findings if no one else tests this out beforehand.
Good
Though hopefully I'll be able to test for myself soon. I will be placing the order for parts today i think, and last time i checked the wait for the SX600-G is about 3 weeks.
Which GTX 970s are you guys ordering? My MSI 970 gaming 4g has pretty bad coilwhine under load. Sounds like a chirping cricket in my case, and the EK thermosphere waterblock doesn't clear the side panel while mounted on the 970, whereas it fit on my 670.
EVGA and MSI are off my list of possibilities, and the Asus strix looks like a no-go as well due to other clearance issues in the Ncase m1
EVGA and MSI are off my list of possibilities, and the Asus strix looks like a no-go as well due to other clearance issues in the Ncase m1
Phuncz
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Maybe you should ask that question in the Ncase M1 thread, not an unrelated PSU thread. You'll get more accurate results from there.