Silly Bitcoin Cooling System

Elios said:
i think ever one is butthurt over not making money off it from the start ah well:rolleyes:
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I've spent thousands on folding. I never expected to make money. I don't want to get paid. I do this to help fine a cure for any number of aflictions.

Getting paid goes againt the whole spirt of what we do here as the [H]orde.

And wrong on the ATI, many of us have been calling for a better ATI client for years.
 
Just think of Bitcoin as a stressing benchmarking tool for folding with the OpenCL client. :D
 
Elios said:
i think ever one is butthurt over not making money off it from the start ah well:rolleyes:
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probably some :D

if this ever really catches on...? watch out NVidea...lol, you have $100 ATI cards putting $500 NVidea cards in teh ditch...

:D:D:D
 
wol-va-rine said:
2. after watching the market he decided to REALLY invest and in Feb? (IIRC) he bought 25,000 BTC for $20,000 ( :eek: ), $0.80 USD apiece, and invested about $8,000 or $9,000 into a bitcoin mining farm...
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I think Kendrak was right earlier when he said we're looking at a bubble. The guy mentioned above hasn't made anything, he's just sunk a ton of money into an alternate currency that may be worthless in the future. Right now he's out about $30 grand. If he wants to make money, he's got to find people that want to buy about $180K worth of bitcoins. If there are no buyers, then he's screwed. I looked at some of the online exchanges and most of the transactions were very small.

wol-va-rine said:
If it were me in that situation I would sell the 25,000 BTC, put that money in the bank and just continue to mine with the equipment until it just doesn't make a profit anymore...
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You have the right idea. Mine and then sell, because cash is much more useful than bitcoins in the real world. The problem is, if you're constantly selling, you're driving the market price of bitcoins down.

I'm a libertarian and I think the idea of digital cash is a good one. I just think the hype around bitcoins is a bit much.
 
I'll chime in here. I decided to start mining less than a month ago (just as exchange rates were really starting to take off) because it intrigued me and I thought that perhaps I could make a little extra $$ to put toward folding gear. I'll admit that I was a skeptic about the whole thing, but after weighing and measuring difficulty increases, electricity, cost of hardware, etc., I decided to go for it. By my calculations I'll have my original investment totally paid off in 2 more weeks (this includes factoring in electricity). Did I think I would become rich...no, but an extra $20-30/day at current exchange rates isn't too bad IMHO. It will ultimately contribute to my future folding equipment if everything goes as planned. Different strokes for different folks.
 
wingding said:
I'll chime in here. I decided to start mining less than a month ago (just as exchange rates were really starting to take off) because it intrigued me and I thought that perhaps I could make a little extra $$ to put toward folding gear. I'll admit that I was a skeptic about the whole thing, but after weighing and measuring difficulty increases, electricity, cost of hardware, etc., I decided to go for it. By my calculations I'll have my original investment totally paid off in 2 more weeks (this includes factoring in electricity). Did I think I would become rich...no, but an extra $20-30/day at current exchange rates isn't too bad IMHO. It will ultimately contribute to my future folding equipment if everything goes as planned. Different strokes for different folks.
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Have you been able to sell the bitcoins though?
 
Thats what the markets are for. You can always trade currency if it has a market value. The real question isn't weather it is legit, secure, legal etc. but just weather the current market price will hold up. It could just be speculation and drop back to $1 next week.
 
SazanEyes said:
I think Kendrak was right earlier when he said we're looking at a bubble. The guy mentioned above hasn't made anything, he's just sunk a ton of money into an alternate currency that may be worthless in the future. Right now he's out about $30 grand. If he wants to make money, he's got to find people that want to buy about $180K worth of bitcoins.
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in the comments section of the video he does mention that he's been selling some off a little bit at a time, how much has he sold back...? only he really knows, but I agree that as of right now he pretty much has to still be in the hole with this venture, will he ever make his $ back...? will he become a millionaire...? time will tell...
 
W.Feather said:
there is another thread in here where someone tried to see our support for it, and well it got closed, do a search and you will see how it works.....its creating a false economy based soley on "mining" with no real value, that 100 coins a day is going to dry up dam fast, they limit the amount total, so sure go ahead invest $30k into mining, and see it actually pay off, GL getting a nice circuit in your house to power that much shit
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lol, the thread got closed because the question was answered by Crosshairs, is that really hard to understand...?

ZOMGCLOSEDTHREAD!!111!11!!!ALLDEADANDSHIT!!111!1!1!!!!1!!!!

and look, someone in this very thread contradicting your assumption that it would take "ages" to pay for the hardware, and that post was from a folder no less, with just simply rearranging the configuration of my two rigs I am producing about 1BTC a day, at the current exchange rate it comes out to ~$250 a month...how "retarded" is that...? of course if my light bill jumps up $250 or more then you win the thread, but considering that you have been right about absolutely nothing in this thread, I'll take my chances...

and yes, there is a finite number of bitcoins, around 21 million or so IIRC, the last one will probably be mined long after I'm dead and gone (estimated to be sometime in 2140), so I'm not really worried about that aspect of it...
 
Kendrak said:
I've spent thousands on folding. I never expected to make money. I don't want to get paid. I do this to help fine a cure for any number of aflictions.

Getting paid goes againt the whole spirt of what we do here as the [H]orde.

And wrong on the ATI, many of us have been calling for a better ATI client for years.
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you do realize that there are some people on [H]ere that may not be as fortunate as you and the other [H]orde members, right...? if they can put any little bit of money they may get from this to good use while dealing with any number of financial issues they may be dealing with more power to them imo...
 
Brak710 said:
Have you been able to sell the bitcoins though?
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Absolutely, at this point I've been selling most of them as I don't factor "paper value" to mean much, especially in a market this volatile. Selling them is a pretty straightforward deal on MTGOX.
 
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
there is a market
i just did the math on this if you can make a 1Giga hash box that gets you about 4 coins a day
even at 7 bucks you come out a head
if it goes over 10 will it just sick

but ah well
 
wingding said:
Absolutely, at this point I've been selling most of them as I don't factor "paper value" to mean much, especially in a market this volatile. Selling them is a pretty straightforward deal on MTGOX.
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are you still pumping out 3 to 4 BTC per day even with the latest difficulty increase...?
 
Elios said:
i think ever one is butthurt over not making money off it from the start ah well:rolleyes:
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sounds like the only one here who is really butt-hurt about anything is you guys getting all defensive about bitcoin.

If you want to go ahead an put real money and effort into this thing, by all means do it. Good for you early adoptors, who are managing to fleece a bunch of speculators out of a few bucks here or there by generating meaningless hashes.. I'll be busy donating my spare cycles for the greater good
 
Activate: AMD said:
sounds like the only one here who is really butt-hurt about anything is you guys getting all defensive about bitcoin.

If you want to go ahead an put real money and effort into this thing, by all means do it. Good for you early adoptors, who are managing to fleece a bunch of speculators out of a few bucks here or there by generating meaningless hashes.. I'll be busy donating my spare cycles for the greater good
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I don't think anyone here is an early adopter, most are just having fun with it and if a few bucks fall our way so be it, it may be even more important than that to some, I personally haven't put any "real money" into it, and I've already decided that the only "real money" I will ever put into it will be some of what I may get back from the "real Paypal payments" I get from selling bitcoins, which makes your comment about "meaningless hashes" as pointless as your comment about the "greater good", who decides what's for the greater good...? you, and only you...? get over yourself...
 
I am sorry to say but, curing diseases is for the "greater good", not buying illegal drugs in grand theft auto bitcoin happy fun land.
 
Activate: AMD said:
sounds like the only one here who is really butt-hurt about anything is you guys getting all defensive about bitcoin.

If you want to go ahead an put real money and effort into this thing, by all means do it. Good for you early adoptors, who are managing to fleece a bunch of speculators out of a few bucks here or there by generating meaningless hashes.. I'll be busy donating my spare cycles for the greater good
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Greater good...riiight. No offense intended, but all the greater good I see is the developers/minds behind it publishing papers and getting notoriety at your expense.

Call me when in-lab research makes progress as a result of this.

The folding project itself has decent aspirations and good intentions. The people behind it are in it for themselves. Thusly I do not support the people. This is my opinion regarding folding. WCG and others I have no opinion on since I have not dealt with them.

Wonder how much money I could make on my laptop doing bitcoin mining. Eh...negligible. Maybe when I get back to america.

I see bitcoin as a way to possibly make money in the long run. But in that sense it's about as risky as doing stock trading.
 
Untitledone said:
I am sorry to say but, curing diseases is for the "greater good", not buying illegal drugs in grand theft auto bitcoin happy fun land.
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so someone using this to help pay their bills or to help out while they're unemployed should just stop and fold for the "greater good", their own welfare be damned...? not everyone has the resources to do what's best for the "greater good" even if they wanted to, deal with it...

"buying illegal drugs in grand theft auto bitcoin happy fun land"...? do you still believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus as well...? ignorance is bliss...
 
I am unemployed and I fold. I also cant sleep in my room due to noise, and heat so my welfare be damned I will continue to fold. Everyone that has an x86 based computer connected to the internet has the recources to contribute. Which is much of this forum's viewers.

No I do not believe in the tooth fairy, or santa claus. One of the perks that has been stated about bitcoins is that is an untracable electronic currency. That to me sounds like a calling card for illegal activity.

Go ahead, I am not telling you to stop with the bitcoin nonsense. If you can make money, so be it. I would not trust a currency that is not even backed up by a government or country. The only thing keeping it afloat is the fact that people are not cashing out. Its possible to make money with it, but dont expect to get rich. Just like the gold rush or the stock market, a few get rich, and a shit load more get poor to make those few get rich.
 
I find that the interesting thing about bitcoin is the passion that it arouses in people both for and against. I've read a number of posts in a large number of forums, all with the same outcomes (quite like this thread). Bitcoin is something that really takes awhile to get your head around (at least it took quite awhile for me, and I'm sure that there is still much to learn).

What I don't understand is the hatred against it by some in the [H] "folding" crowd. If you are happy with folding, great! Some do it for points and some do it for science...is either reason wrong or right? Some may choose to mine bitcoins for money or fun...is either wrong or right? I reiterate, different strokes for different folks.
 
Untitledone said:
I am unemployed and I fold. I also cant sleep in my room due to noise, and heat so my welfare be damned I will continue to fold. Everyone that has an x86 based computer connected to the internet has the recources to contribute. Which is much of this forum's viewers.

No I do not believe in the tooth fairy, or santa claus. One of the perks that has been stated about bitcoins is that is an untracable electronic currency. That to me sounds like a calling card for illegal activity.

Go ahead, I am not telling you to stop with the bitcoin nonsense. If you can make money, so be it. I would not trust a currency that is not even backed up by a government or country. The only thing keeping it afloat is the fact that people are not cashing out. Its possible to make money with it, but dont expect to get rich. Just like the gold rush or the stock market, a few get rich, and a shit load more get poor to make those few get rich.
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now I'm convinced that...

A. you haven't actually read one thing that I've posted in this thread...

or

B. if you actually have read anything I've posted your reading comprehension needs some serious work...

I will also guess that there are extenuating circumstances that allow you to fold even though you're unemployed, if you were a single parent getting by on unemployment while trying to find work, folding and "the greater good" would be the least of your worries, your unemployment situation dictates that you can afford non essentials like "the greater good", others may not be as fortunate and are scraping just to get by...

I don't know about you, but where I live it's hard to get by on $1480/month max unemployment compensation before taxes and bills, no matter how much you made with your previous employer...
 
wol-va-rine said:
now I'm convinced that...

A. you haven't actually read one thing that I've posted in this thread...

or

B. if you actually have read anything I've posted your reading comprehension needs some serious work...

I will also guess that there are extenuating circumstances that allow you to fold even though you're unemployed, if you were a single parent getting by on unemployment while trying to find work, folding and "the greater good" would be the least of your worries, your unemployment situation dictates that you can afford non essentials like "the greater good", others may not be as fortunate and are scraping just to get by...

I don't know about you, but where I live it's hard to get by on $1480/month max unemployment compensation before taxes and bills, no matter how much you made with your previous employer...
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I have read every post in this thread. Eh I got all riled up for nothing. Only time will tell what will happen with the Bitcoin economy. As for the unemployed, If they are in that dire of need, I do not think they would have the resources to attempt Bitcoin in the first place unless they already have hardware. It is the sad truth that good money making ideas require some kind of capital expenditure to begin, and unemployed and poor people may not be able to get it. If they have that great of a burden they must make changes. I know I did. I recieve no unemployment. All my funds are from side work here and there, and various wheeling and dealing to make ends meet. I already had the hardware to fold, and electricty where I live is a minimal expenditure on my folding equipment. If they already have the hardware capable of doing Bitcoin mining, then by all means they should try it, every little bit helps.

As for $1480 a month, I could live very well in my area on that. In fact most people I know make less than that working full time here.

EDIT: The your "Greater Good" comment is what set me off. I am cooled down now. As it stands Bitcoin is a very heated topic, so I wont bother with it anymore. Both sides have a vested intrest in their own goals, and we gain nothing fighting over it.
 
Untitledone said:
I have read every post in this thread. Eh I got all riled up for nothing. Only time will tell what will happen with the Bitcoin economy. As for the unemployed, If they are in that dire of need, I do not think they would have the resources to attempt Bitcoin in the first place unless they already have hardware. It is the sad truth that good money making ideas require some kind of capital expenditure to begin, and unemployed and poor people may not be able to get it. If they have that great of a burden they must make changes. I know I did. I recieve no unemployment. All my funds are from side work here and there, and various wheeling and dealing to make ends meet. I already had the hardware to fold, and electricty where I live is a minimal expenditure on my folding equipment. If they already have the hardware capable of doing Bitcoin mining, then by all means they should try it, every little bit helps.

As for $1480 a month, I could live very well in my area on that. In fact most people I know make less than that working full time here.

EDIT: The your "Greater Good" comment is what set me off. I am cooled down now. As it stands Bitcoin is a very heated topic, so I wont bother with it anymore. Both sides have a vested intrest in their own goals, and we gain nothing fighting over it.
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thank you, that actually is exactly what I'm saying, right now I'm actually trying to talk my friend out of "investing" in it (buying a dedicated rig with tri-fired cards), this started out as fun for me and it still is because I'm not banking on it, it more or less helps me in maximizing my hardware that I already have...

being in the situation I'm in (unemployed with 3 kids living with me about 90% of the time even though their mother has "legal" custody of them) I'm very paranoid about the risk and don't fully "believe in it" myself, the only way I would even buy hardware to do this is if somehow I can basically get it "free" by selling bitcoins and using that Paypal balance to get some hardware, but even then it would be weighed against the probability of actually making a profit with it or whether it would be better put to use elsewhere (mainly the kids)...

my friend is a little too gung ho about this right now and it's worrying me, he has taken it to a level that I haven't even dreamed of taking it to, I sent him a spare 4850 I has sitting around hoping that would be enough and that he wouldn't spend any of his money on this, but he is determined to build a dedicated rig to get to 1.5 GHash/s...

as to the "greater good" point, who even brought that up...? a folder IIRC, with a pretty condescending and "holier than thou" attitude, and actually it's funny that someone mentioned the miners getting defensive, there would be no need to get "defensive" if there weren't any attacks now would there...? if you read this thread, anyone who mines is portrayed to be some kind of evil retard that buys and sells drugs with bitcoins, and kidnaps and eats children in their sleep...

I'm hardly pro bitcoin, but if I can make some money off it while the gettin' is good to help out with bills until I get back on my feet again so be it, I will...

and like you said, almost $1500 a month might be enough where you live, but where I live more than half of that goes to rent and after factoring in bills and 4 mouths to feed I barely get by, hell, in other places $1500 wouldn't even cover the rent for a comparable place...
 
Can someone explain Bitcoin a bit better? Is it doing some kind of distributed computing project, or is it just checking things on an algorithm and randomly spitting out coins for no purpose but to burn cpu power?
 
GoldenTiger said:
Can someone explain Bitcoin a bit better? Is it doing some kind of distributed computing project, or is it just checking things on an algorithm and randomly spitting out coins for no purpose but to burn cpu power?
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its both
there are "mining pools" that help make things smoother
and the mining clients are what make the transfers of coins work in the first place
look up what is bitcoin on youtube
 
Elios said:
its both
there are "mining pools" that help make things smoother
and the mining clients are what make the transfers of coins work in the first place
look up what is bitcoin on youtube
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OK, to clarify I mean some sort of scientific project, for research, rather than just being a random distributed computing thing with no reason other than to sustain itself. :) So, what exactly is it? I looked it up and it's really not clarifying offhand...
 
GoldenTiger said:
OK, to clarify I mean some sort of scientific project, for research, rather than just being a random distributed computing thing with no reason other than to sustain itself.
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That's pretty much it. In effect, it's fairly arbitrarily assigning bitcoin value to processing power. And for some reason, people somewhere are willing to pay $8+ per bitcoin.
 
I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding: the DC work being done is creating the actual "bitcoins" which are an encrypted digital currency. I haven't read much of the research behind how the mining actually works, but the general idea is that it should take a lot of computing power to create a "coin" to prevent counterfeiting. Also, creating bitcoins becomes progressively harder over time to prevent inflation. The distributed nature also means there's no central "bank" that controls the currency. The whole idea is to create digital "cash" which can be used just like paper currency in the real world, so you don't have to go through a third party (like PayPal or a credit card company) to buy and sell online.
 
I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet, but how long until the ATI conspiracy theories start...? seriously, you have budget ATI gaming cards ($99) putting teh rape on top of the line ($500) Nvidea cards...
 
OMFG Yes! They will screw us over yet. If we burn down the system now and run away with our digitally secure currency then we will be able to survive. It's for the greater good...

(I think it has been dubbed trolling? I am unsure how the other sub-forums survive.)
 
wol-va-rine said:
I'm actually surprised it hasn't happened yet, but how long until the ATI conspiracy theories start...? seriously, you have budget ATI gaming cards ($99) putting teh rape on top of the line ($500) Nvidea cards...
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Won't happen here.

The reverse has been true in folding since the first GPU client to alow use of both cards.

It all comes down to the different way the cards are designed. ATI, many slow shaders. NV, few fast shaders. They lend themselves to be better or worse than the other depending on the type of work and math involved.

It is well documented here and in other folding forums and is very very old news. Welcome to 2007.
 
avatardelta said:
Greater good...riiight. No offense intended, but all the greater good I see is the developers/minds behind it publishing papers and getting notoriety at your expense.

Call me when in-lab research makes progress as a result of this.

The folding project itself has decent aspirations and good intentions. The people behind it are in it for themselves. Thusly I do not support the people. This is my opinion regarding folding. WCG and others I have no opinion on since I have not dealt with them.
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Call me when you figure out how academic research works. As someone who has spent time doing academic research, and who now does commercial R&D, I can say with pretty good certainty that if you really wanted fame and fortune you'd pick a different field. The goal of most academics is to expand the body of knowledge in their particular field. Pande Group is no different. I understand that its kind of hard for people to understand how the research makes actual measurable progress when PG publishes some obscure-sounding protein synthesis or mechanism. The point is to gain insight into the basics with the hope that others will build off that and apply it to larger scenarios which may lead to future treatments. for example: "Side-chain recognition and gating in the ribosome exit tunnel" sounds pretty convoluted, but maybe some drug company will be able to create a targeted inhibitor to turn off ribosomes in cancer cells by interfering with this mechanism

Now compare that with bitcoin. Like I said in my previous post, if you want to make money with your rig's time, thats cool, but if the vast majority of people in this subforum were interested in money they wouldn't be spending thousands on rigs and electricity to fold on.

wol-va-rine said:
as to the "greater good" point, who even brought that up...? a folder IIRC, with a pretty condescending and "holier than thou" attitude, and actually it's funny that someone mentioned the miners getting defensive, there would be no need to get "defensive" if there weren't any attacks now would there...? if you read this thread, anyone who mines is portrayed to be some kind of evil retard that buys and sells drugs with bitcoins, and kidnaps and eats children in their sleep.....
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call me condescending all you want, but the "miners" were the ones saying we were all "butthurt" at not jumping on the bicoin bandwagon early. And nobody is portraying bitcoin users as evil drug using villains, its just that in just about every bitcoin topic I've seen (not just here) people who use the program seem to bring up how "dangerous" it could be because its untraceable
 
Kendrak said:
Won't happen here.

The reverse has been true in folding since the first GPU client to alow use of both cards.

It all comes down to the different way the cards are designed. ATI, many slow shaders. NV, few fast shaders. They lend themselves to be better or worse than the other depending on the type of work and math involved.

It is well documented here and in other folding forums and is very very old news. Welcome to 2007.
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um, you do realize how "conspiracy theories" work and the logical reasoning (or should I say lack thereof) usually associated with them, right...? lol
 
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Activate: AMD said:
Call me when you figure out how academic research works. As someone who has spent time doing academic research, and who now does commercial R&D, I can say with pretty good certainty that if you really wanted fame and fortune you'd pick a different field. The goal of most academics is to expand the body of knowledge in their particular field. Pande Group is no different. I understand that its kind of hard for people to understand how the research makes actual measurable progress when PG publishes some obscure-sounding protein synthesis or mechanism. The point is to gain insight into the basics with the hope that others will build off that and apply it to larger scenarios which may lead to future treatments. for example: "Side-chain recognition and gating in the ribosome exit tunnel" sounds pretty convoluted, but maybe some drug company will be able to create a targeted inhibitor to turn off ribosomes in cancer cells by interfering with this mechanism

Now compare that with bitcoin. Like I said in my previous post, if you want to make money with your rig's time, thats cool, but if the vast majority of people in this subforum were interested in money they wouldn't be spending thousands on rigs and electricity to fold on.


call me condescending all you want, but the "miners" were the ones saying we were all "butthurt" at not jumping on the bicoin bandwagon early. And nobody is portraying bitcoin users as evil drug using villains, its just that in just about every bitcoin topic I've seen (not just here) people who use the program seem to bring up how "dangerous" it could be because its untraceable
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you're sure that the dudes (actually one dude who probably isn't even a miner because he called the mining "BS") who were making the "butthurt" comments were miners...? how...? did you actually look through the tread and take notice of the posters who said that they were miners and read what they had to say...? this is a classic example of "one person in the thread said it, so everybody said it...!!!" wrong, I have the utmost respect for folders, it has always interested me and when I become more financially stable I can easily sell my ATI cards off and use that money to buy Nvidea cards to fold (because aside from these purposes, the gaming aspects of the cards are pretty even), in my case (and a lot more cases than you seem to want to admit to) the "greater good" takes a back seat to survival...

the illegal potential of bitcoins doesn't concern me personally so I don't even consider it, all I consider are the numbers and chances of it being profitable in my case...
 
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honestly, the bickering is getting out of hand.

I'm sure I've seen pictures of cooling systems equally insane to deal with the heat of folding, that was what this thread started with.

If you can't get it back on track....

1) let the thread die
2) lock the thread
 
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