Silly Bitcoin Cooling System

I bet a homeless guy would be real comfortable sleeping under that vent in the winter time.
 
....what the hell, they do realize the small "bitcoin" they get will take ages to pay for the hardware...let alone the electricity, are they retarded?
 
W.Feather said:
....what the hell, they do realize the small "bitcoin" they get will take ages to pay for the hardware...let alone the electricity, are they retarded?
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Exactly.

The only thing it really makes me question is why not insert monetary incentive into commercial DC projects.
 
infect0 said:
Exactly.

The only thing it really makes me question is why not insert monetary incentive into commercial DC projects.
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because most DC projects aren't commercial. If they were commercial, they wouldn't be DC.. they'd probably just build a compute cluster and control their own hardware directly. No, most DC projects are research groups who are basically relying on us donating our time and money to the project
 
Activate: AMD said:
because most DC projects aren't commercial. If they were commercial, they wouldn't be DC.. they'd probably just build a compute cluster and control their own hardware directly. No, most DC projects are research groups who are basically relying on us donating our time and money to the project
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So you have explored the cost benefits of DC and running a cluster?

I realize the purpose of DC for research groups. I was simply stating that if people are so gungho about running systems to create BTC that maybe they would be gungho about getting paid for a commercial DC project that paid less then the cost of running their own cluster.

Thanks for explaining the obvious though.
 
infect0 said:
So you have explored the cost benefits of DC and running a cluster?

I realize the purpose of DC for research groups. I was simply stating that if people are so gungho about running systems to create BTC that maybe they would be gungho about getting paid for a commercial DC project that paid less then the cost of running their own cluster.

Thanks for explaining the obvious though.
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the thing is, bitcoin has FAR less supporters than pretty much any other DC project, their computing power is not near WCG/F@H levels...

atleast i doubt that bitcoin has beat the 7.87 PFLOPS of power for F@H, or the 5.44 PFLOPS of BOINC
 
Activate: AMD said:
because most DC projects aren't commercial. If they were commercial, they wouldn't be DC.. they'd probably just build a compute cluster and control their own hardware directly. No, most DC projects are research groups who are basically relying on us donating our time and money to the project
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Why wouldn't it be DC? Also, free resources by the public is cheaper then the controlled environment you speak of. I believe Aqua@Home is made by a commercial company for their own R&D. http://aqua.dwavesys.com/ and http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html But, you are right, there aren't many commercial ones out there. I think most companies have yet to see the value in tapping into this market.
 
Gilthanis said:
Why wouldn't it be DC? Also, free resources by the public is cheaper then the controlled environment you speak of. I believe Aqua@Home is made by a commercial company for their own R&D. http://aqua.dwavesys.com/ and http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dw_homepage.html But, you are right, there aren't many commercial ones out there. I think most companies have yet to see the value in tapping into this market.
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I think his point is that if it's commercial, it's unlikely that they'd use DC instead of their own resources if only because of the degree of control that they would have.
 
W.Feather said:
....what the hell, they do realize the small "bitcoin" they get will take ages to pay for the hardware...let alone the electricity, are they retarded?
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I only run f@h but I've been looking at bitcoin because it's unusual. There are some very well coded clients for ATI gpus, 20x faster than CPU farming. To get the 32Gh/s they quote it looks like you would need 96 HD 6950 cards for example (four per box). That's probably over $30,000 of hardware on that rack but I think the payoff right now is very good. The video says if they are lucky they get 100 coins in a day. A current market rates that's $700 US a day. Even including hydro costs it would be reasonable to pay off that whole cluster in two months.

Does anyone who has actually mined bitcoin know if the above is correct? I think it's a bit funny that the people who fold on this forum think that bitcoin is somehow only for retarded people. It if anything it just looks a bit risky to put that much money into a market that can change so rapidly. If you understand the risks and the system though it looks like you can successfully earn money mining. On one hand it is purely selfish and doesn't help others like true DC but on the other hand you do get money that you can put back into your farm and the hardware is half the fun of DC for me anyway.
 
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Zink said:
I only run f@h but I've been looking at bitcoin because it's unusual. There are some very well coded clients for ATI gpus, 20x faster than CPU farming. To get the 32Gh/s they quote it looks like you would need 96 HD 6950 cards for example (four per box). That's probably over $30,000 of hardware on that rack but I think the payoff right now is very good. The video says if they are lucky they get 100 coins in a day. A current market rates that's $700 US a day. Even including hydro costs it would be reasonable to pay off that whole cluster in two months.

Does anyone who has actually mined bitcoin know if the above is correct? I think it's a bit funny that the people who fold on this forum think that bitcoin is somehow only for retarded people. It if anything it just looks a bit risky to put that much money into a market that can change so rapidly. If you understand the risks and the system though it looks like you can successfully earn money mining. On one hand it is purely selfish and doesn't help others like true DC but on the other hand you do get money that you can put back into your farm and the hardware is half the fun of DC for me anyway.
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there is another thread in here where someone tried to see our support for it, and well it got closed, do a search and you will see how it works.....its creating a false economy based soley on "mining" with no real value, that 100 coins a day is going to dry up dam fast, they limit the amount total, so sure go ahead invest $30k into mining, and see it actually pay off, GL getting a nice circuit in your house to power that much shit
 
W.Feather said:
GL getting a nice circuit in your house to power that much shit
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Exactly.

Unless you've got an unlimited source of free power, you're not going to be making any money.

96 cards at 150W power draw each running for a month at even a cheap power rate of $.10/kWh is going to cost over $1000 a month in power alone.
 
I think the idea is that they can trade the bitcoin they get in a month for over $15,000 so it is theoretically possible to make money if the market holds up and they can keep mining etc. It does seem rather scammy though because they aren't doing anything useful with the hardware, just finding encryption keys or sometin.
 
Zink said:
It does seem rather scammy though because they aren't doing anything useful with the hardware, just finding encryption keys or sometin.
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That was my thought when I first read about it. I want to know what is being done with all the computing power.
 
Parja said:
Exactly.

Unless you've got an unlimited source of free power, you're not going to be making any money.

96 cards at 150W power draw each running for a month at even a cheap power rate of $.10/kWh is going to cost over $1000 a month in power alone.
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That is also assuming a flat rate on the power. Depending on where you are the power company may charge more beyond a certain level. 96 GPU's at 150W is about 10368KWh per month. My dad pulled 1740KWh in one month where I live, and his bill was $450+. I on the other hand usually pull less than 500KWh a month, and the bill is usually between $40-$50. Where I live I think its like 0-500KWh/month is $.08/KWh, between 500-1000KWh is $.12, anything above that starts to get huge charges.

Just doing some crappy math, but 1700x6 is 10200 (close to the estimated power consumption of 96 GPU's) so $450x6 is $2700 per month electricity in my area (not factoring for a possible even higher price per KWh there could be for extreme power consumers).

Maybe if he got on an industrial or commercial power plan it would be flat rate but I dont know what most power companies do. Honestly its a shit load of power.

The only thing I could think of is if he had a shit load of cash to buy a big ass solar array. This would give a fixed cost for a given output. If he lives in a windy area, then getting cheap wind turbine(s) would also give a fixed cost per output as well as a microhydro setup if he was near a river. Also combining all of those would give the most reliable, cheapest, and highest volume of output.
 
Zink said:
Does anyone who has actually mined bitcoin know if the above is correct? I think it's a bit funny that the people who fold on this forum think that bitcoin is somehow only for retarded people. It if anything it just looks a bit risky to put that much money into a market that can change so rapidly. If you understand the risks and the system though it looks like you can successfully earn money mining. On one hand it is purely selfish and doesn't help others like true DC but on the other hand you do get money that you can put back into your farm and the hardware is half the fun of DC for me anyway.
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I actually run one box that does GPU bitcoin mining. On one hand I find it really silly and do not think its going anywhere but on the other its just fun to do, for me at least. On a GTX460 I do about 50Mh/s. This is using OpenCL and not Cuda so I probably could squeeze a bit more out of it. For example I ran it for 5 hours today and made .11746146063755 BTC or ~$0.80, if I did my math correctly. I def. do not think its a magical way to make money, I only do it because I like to use processing power for strange things sometimes.

For the record I was not trying to create a pro BTC thread just the crazy lengths this guy went.

Since the question was opened though I can pretty clearly say its going to be a waste of time. The only thing useful I can see for BTC is buying illegal goods since there is no way to trace it. Of course there is already a website/market to buy drugs using BTC. Unless there is continued demand for the currency, its pointless. Its also a boring endeavor to mine it because the system self corrects so when processing power ramps up it increases the difficulty to create a correct has that wins the game. The essentially set a limit for the total number of BTC and a exact timeline to how quick it will be released. The real winners are the founders and first adopters who could win the hash game with little processing power and now have hundreds of thousands - millions of BTC.
 
I could never properly load and temperature test my 3GPU setup so I'd figured I would try this and see if my GPU overclock would be stable for a full 24 hour period. Considering what this hardware cost me in March and later November '10, it seems like its worth spending $3 or so in electricity to join a pool mine.

Everything has been stable for the last two hours and average load on the 5970 is 98% / 95% while the 5870 is 95% with temps at 79 / 81 / 62 respectively on a 900MHz clock speed for all three GPUs. The 5870 is capped by Sapphire at 900. Hash oscillates between 800 and 1120 Mhash/s. If this works out I'll need a more efficient client.

To infect0: About 7,000,000 bitcoins have already been released. I'd assume the lion's share is split between a few thousand users and I doubt any one user has much more than 100,000, though the total earned by any one large pool is almost certainly much higher.
 
Teenyman45 said:
To infect0: About 7,000,000 bitcoins have already been released. I'd assume the lion's share is split between a few thousand users and I doubt any one user has much more than 100,000, though the total earned by any one large pool is almost certainly much higher.
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One correction from my previous statement, I meant to say that the founders/early adopters are all millionaires/pseudo now.

Since all transactions are public you can dig through the data.
-6341600.00000000 in circulation.
-Largest owner has 5% of the current BTC. (Yes this could be split between users but its still a significant amount sitting in one account, Pools constantly distribute so I doubt its a large number of owners).
-The program gets harder as the rate of generation increases. So, early adopters had an easy time generating boatloads of BTC.
- Its well known that the early adopters got the boatload of BTC.

That is why I think its a joke. Even in the official FAQ they try to play it off but its a joke. There was no risk to generating BTC and very little resources required compared to the return.

"Early adopters have a large number of bitcoins now because they took a risk and invested resources in an unproven technology. By so doing, they have helped Bitcoin become what it is now and what it will be in the future (hopefully, a ubiquitous decentralized digital currency). It is only fair they will reap the benefits of their successful investment. "

15% of the total BTC was created in the first year which went to early adopters (which was not that large at the time). Good for them, I still stand by the fact the winners are the founders/early adopters.
 
Not disputing that they have the largest share. What would be interesting to know is if any of those early adopters cashed out when bitcoins were still traded for far less than a dollar each.
 
Probably. I know if I had 500,000 of them and it was early on I'd consider trading them out for $50,000. Maybe not all of them, but enough to cover equipment costs and maybe get some nice things.


I like the idea of bitcoins being distributed currency, since then economics could be planned better(imo). However, I'd like it more if something useful was done with it while the keys were found. I think a future where energy is currency is inevitable, and that could be by equating energy to computing power(which requires energy). Thus you can buy/sell computer processing power.

This is indirectly done with bitcoins because it takes so much processing power to create them, but I wish you could turn those bitcoins directly into processing power. For example, you're sitting on a mountain of bitcoins, so you sell them out to desktops, a few to each, and now you have a botnet for a certain amount of time. This would then be a currency with intrinsic value, along with the current benefits of bitcoins over fiat money.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another strange thought, but I could see bitcoins being used for digital purchases. Things like perks & equipment in free-to-play MMOs, games/DLC, music, access to information, etc.
 
Zink said:
It does seem rather scammy though because they aren't doing anything useful with the hardware, just finding encryption keys or sometin.
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I just don't get this whole process. why is it that almost everyone who talks about supporting this system act like theres some huge government conspiracy to shut them down? Then they talk about how bitcoin can topple the government and that its super cool but super "dangerous" because you can buy illegal drugs with it and its "not traceable"? thats on top of the fact that about 90% of all these people don't seem to speak english very well.

my guess is that its all an undercover chinese government program to crack encryption codes on all that F-35 data they stole :D
 
Activate: AMD said:
I just don't get this whole process. why is it that almost everyone who talks about supporting this system act like theres some huge government conspiracy to shut them down? Then they talk about how bitcoin can topple the government and that its super cool but super "dangerous" because you can buy illegal drugs with it and its "not traceable"? thats on top of the fact that about 90% of all these people don't seem to speak english very well.

my guess is that its all an undercover chinese government program to crack encryption codes on all that F-35 data they stole :D
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BTC is a joke.
 
infect0 said:
BTC is tulip mania.
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FTFY

Tulip mania or tulipomania was a period in the Dutch Golden Age during which contract prices for bulbs of the recently introduced tulip reached extraordinarily high levels and then suddenly collapsed. At the peak of tulip mania, in February 1637, some single tulip bulbs sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble (or economic bubble),The term "tulip mania" is now often used metaphorically to refer to any large economic bubble (when asset prices deviate from intrinsic values).
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It is all just a 'lil bit of history repeating.

Good book to read: Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
 
Activate: AMD said:
I just don't get this whole process. why is it that almost everyone who talks about supporting this system act like theres some huge government conspiracy to shut them down? Then they talk about how bitcoin can topple the government and that its super cool but super "dangerous" because you can buy illegal drugs with it and its "not traceable"? thats on top of the fact that about 90% of all these people don't seem to speak english very well.

my guess is that its all an undercover chinese government program to crack encryption codes on all that F-35 data they stole :D
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They're probably just being paranoid at this. Still, an untraceable version of cash that can be distributed over the internet? I think a lot of governments would be against this because then it would be difficult to impossible to track the flow of money. So they're probably being overly paranoid at this point because they're thinking far into the future and assuming bitcoin will ever be popular enough to catch widespread attention from the governments of the world.
 
I thought it was a joke until I saw the escrow services and currency exchange sites that will give you cash via PayPal at the current exchange rate. I mined for one week on my old 5870 (since sold off), and got around 15 btc that I deleted. At that time, the exchange rate was about .7 BTC to 1 USD, but now it's freaking $9! Nine freaking dollars!

At my math, that's $135 dollars pre-exchange fee that I threw away. Don't mistake my post here, folks. I don't support BitCoin, but I do know that some folks made out like bandits if they were in from the start.

Damn hippies.
 
i dont get the hate for bitcoin its a neat idea over all
yes the mining for it is odd... but if it catches on it could be a good thing Paypal already thinks its a threat so it have some thing going for

this thread reads more like butthurt for not getting in at the start
 
Elios said:
i dont get the hate for bitcoin its a neat idea over all
yes the mining for it is odd... but if it catches on it could be a good thing Paypal already thinks its a threat so it have some thing going for

this thread reads more like butthurt for not getting in at the start
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All it takes is one of those heavy hitters that was in early to cash out and the whole BTC economy crashes.
 
Parja said:
All it takes is one of those heavy hitters that was in early to cash out and the whole BTC economy crashes.
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i dont see an issue here at all and even if they cash out SOME ONE is holding the bag still
its not like goes away
and even if they deleted the dat file it would only drive up rates
i really dont see an issue with some one cashing out and even then finding some were to cash out that would have that much USD on hand is an issue
they cant do it over night
 
This might sound stupid, but what if you could get some of the electricity costs used @ DC on your tax returns? Not sure, something like charity, etc...
 
DSee said:
This might sound stupid, but what if you could get some of the electricity costs used @ DC on your tax returns? Not sure, something like charity, etc...
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im not even looking at the DC ie mining side of Bitcoin just the part about using it as internet cash i like the idea mining is kind of a fun side show
what makes me like it is the "stick it to the man" part
if you really want to make money on bitcoin just buy low sell high
this part of why the big price jump once the speculators got in the price jumped
 
I love the hate in this thread...lol, it's a bit surprising [H]ere given that this is basically folding with potential for a payout, but amusing nonetheless...

I will admit that I mine, I just started and honestly it's fun as shit, setting it up and then tweeking it to get the most Mhash/s you can, I just started the other day and mine on my rig full time at night (part time during the day when I'm not doing anything that would really stress my gpu like gaming, actually I'm mining at 100 Mhash/s as I type this) and on my kids' computer about 20 hours a day when they aren't on it...

I haven't invested anything, I just switched the better mining card (my 5850) into the computer that was going to mine the most (my kids' rig) and swapped their 4890 into my system (which mines mostly at night), like I said, it's fun and a friend of mine got me into it, he wasn't doing it but had just started to talk about it, he didn't have any ATI cards so I sent him an extra card I wasn't using so he could get started as well, (4850)

there's a Youtube video (I should say videos, it's in 2 parts) that shows one of these early adopters and dude is sittin' on a fucking goldmine...lol

IIRC

1. last December he was curious and plopped down $100 on 500 BTC (yep, around 6 months ago their value was only about $0.20 USD...

2. after watching the market he decided to REALLY invest and in Feb? (IIRC) he bought 25,000 BTC for $20,000 ( :eek: ), $0.80 USD apiece, and invested about $8,000 or $9,000 into a bitcoin mining farm...

so even if he didn't get one BTC out of farming (and believe me, dude is killing it farming, the ATI 5800 series is where it's at for bitcoin mining and his farm consists of a bunch of 5870s), at this point he could sell those 25,000 BTC (for around $8.50 apiece) and clear $200,000 USD, even after transaction fees and taking a total loss on the $9,000 worth of mining equipment (which he hasn't)...

yes, $200,000...he bought low and could sell and get a huge profit, I guess the real question is how greedy is he, does he want to wait and risk it to become a millionaire...? that's a huge gamble, but dude has already proven he has balls, so we'll see...

if it were me in that situation I would sell the 25,000 BTC, put that money in the bank and just continue to mine with the equipment until it just doesn't make a profit anymore...

personally, I do it because it's fun, this dude is WAY more serious about it than I would ever be...

these are my mining rigs' specs (gpus are all that matters)...

XFX 5850...currently mining at 276 Mhash/s, I will be tweeking it this weekend to see if I can get 300 Mhash/s (CCC only lets me OC it to 775MHz, and won't let me under clock the memory lower than 975MHz, I want to set the memory at around 500MHz even though some people set it as low as 300MHz, then I want to OC it to about 825-850MHz, that might bump me over 300 Mhash/s)...the card runs very cool at just under 60°...

XFX4890...(until I buy a 5830 or 5850 to replace it, the 5830 is maybe the best bang for BTC card out there atm at around $100 while mining slightly less than a 5850) currently mining at 101 Mhash/s, OCed to 900MHz with the memory down clocked to 500MHz, this card runs very hot, around 90° and about 100° on the shadercore...

politics and crazy conspiracy shit aside, this is fun, at least for me it is, especially if you have a buddy doing it too, you folders really can't understand that, really...? I'm not pinning the hopes of my future on this, but if I can mine enough to make it profitable I'll keep doing it for some extra pocket change...

:D
 
i still dont get the hate even if you think the mining part is BS using it for transactions in place of paypal is pretty win imo
 
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