Should IT Form a Union?

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InfoWorld wants to know, should IT form a union? A union? Do IT workers really need or want a union? What do you think?

Sixty-hour work weeks with no overtime or comp time, a BlackBerry hitched to your belt 24/7, mandates from managers who have no clue what you actually do – all for a job that could be outsourced tomorrow. Is it finally time for technology workers to form a union and demand better working conditions?
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yes please...

i have two titles now and twice the duties and the same pay lol.
 
Well I'm mixed on the answer. Yes, we need a union to fend off possible outsourcing from clueless management. No, the JOB itself does not really need unionizing if stupid management were not... um stupid.
 
I can see Article I of the contract:

Employer is to provide a game pod or other highly expensive chair during employment and sitting on your ass is working.
 
Seems to me that unions aren't helping keep jobs here in the US, if anything they just make foreign goods and labor cheaper in comparison.
 
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specilists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me durring off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
 
Unions only protect their workers when it benefits them to do so. So no thanks, stay away from me please. I can handle things just fine on my own.
 
No.. Free market works best here. Unions were essential when people were dying on their jobs daily and being made in to slave labor for company script.

This is a job just like any other. I choose to work in IT, I can pick and choose my jobs. It all pays what you put in to it and you are free to go. This is brain work, not manual labor. (for the most part).

Couple that with the fact that your IT people are not the bulk of your workforce. though the loss of an IT guy or two can be a hit for a company, a stike would not have the impact of having your entire factory full of workers walk out. It generally wouldnt be a time-loss or production stoppage, and any actions taken by the IT staff to make it such would be a current criminal offense.

The only thing a Union would do is drive the rest of the IT jobs off-shore, or drive wages down to attract non-union workers.

It just wont work and shouldnt be tried.
 
I would say no as in the long run it could possibly speed up the processor companies here outsourcing.
 
Yeah I think SOMETHING needs to be done, even like the latter part of the article says, not so much a union but an organization to speak for IT works rights. I'm lucky enough to have a IT job that is not ridiculous with unpaid overtime or other issues that many others have. To me, it looks like many tech workers are getting 'taken advantage of' by companies, whats with all the unpaid overtime, these companies are saving huge amounts of money by throwing these people on salary then demanding they work an extra 20 hours a week on top of it.
 
Hell no. I hate unions. The only good a union is for in todays age is to expedite outsourcing.
 
I dunno, Unions can cause problems, look at that issue with the waste management company in Oakland, the city really did stink at that point. But it would be nice to have someone stick up for you, and get you what you need, in my case better pay and some sort of positive motivation for the employees since most of them walked and I'm the only one answering the phones right now.
 
MrValentine said:
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specilists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me durring off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
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Your free to find a new job. I would do so under those circumstances.

I dont think many of you really understand what unions were created for in the first place. I grew up in the coal fields of West Virginia, I have seen first hand how it all works. My great uncle Sid Hatfield faught against the coal companies durring the Matewan massacre, the companies actually hired mercenaries to put down the workers with machine guns! The coal companies took away these people houses, ability to buy food and made them so far in debt that they were indentured servants to the company. That is the condition for a union.

Is your boss pointing a gun at you and putting your family out on the street?
 
Sorry, I what the unions did to the CA school system, so hell no! At least not until I get a good IT job and I can get painlessly assimilated into the union and get paid to sit on my ass:D
 
I totally agree that there should be a union. If not, we should be allowed to join others, ie IBEW or something like that. With my last career I got sick of being dragged in on days off, being called in the middle of the night, not being allowed to take vacation without taking the phone with me. It was ridiculous. Never was I allowed to have time to myself away from work.

With my current job, I am finally allowed to have away time, when 5 comes everyone leaves. I am glad I moved from a huge corporation to a smaller business. Yes the pay may be a lot less, but I tell you, my blood pressure dropped 40 points because of the lack of stress. To make matters better, I wake up looking forward to going to work, not wanting to kill my co-workers/boss.

We are a group that gets abused, and no one knows how difficult our job is. They just expect everything to work as it always has. No ones treats their mechanics like we get treated.
 
Unions have some use, yes even for CA school system, but often yeah they throw their weight around. The city of Vallejo declared bankruptsy because the police & fire were getting something like 85% of the total city budget. In San Francisco, Muni bus driver runs a red light, hits parked cars, people, causes world war 3, he's put on paid administrative leave for a few weeks then returns to work.

But some of the upshots of unions, is CA teachers actually are getting paid a better wage that then used to, some of the more highly educated people out there, making the lowest wages possible, it's no wonder many schools tended to scrape the bottom of the barrel for teachers.

IT guys? Well it's a known fact that job is extremely demanding. Why people get into it I don't know... well other than the getting a CS degree, MCSE certifications, etc, maybe even quite high paying considering the job... but hey I've only know a few IT guys, and it seems they make computers run, then blow all their money on fast cars and coke (but this was during the dot com bubble mind you :D)
 
TheBluePill said:
No.. Free market works best here....

...The only thing a Union would do is drive the rest of the IT jobs off-shore, or drive wages down to attract non-union workers.

It just wont work and shouldnt be tried.
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THIS.

I would only add that GOOD IT professionals need no help getting what they want in an employment relationship. Those that can't, shouldn't. People need to realize that THEY control what happens in their working relationship, not anyone else. The minute you decide to give that up by depending on Union to take care of that for you, you become a slave.

I'd like to think that most IT workers know the potential evils of a union enough to stay away.
 
MrValentine said:
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specilists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me durring off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
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Wow...That sucks...

...that you allow them to do that.
 
I don't know...these outsourced workers are making a mockery of the IT field...certifications are now a joke because of Indian cert-factories, and quality is second to quantity.
 
something does needs to be done in the it sector. why? companies are keeping their it staff small while increasing their expected workload per person. right now one person at times is doing 2-3 different jobs for a company and the pay is not reflecting that at all.
 
MrValentine said:
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specialists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me during off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
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Keep it in a tinfoil or copper bag when off the clock.
 
YES!!! please do :) I would join as well. I hate the "you will do it and like it" attitude of some companies.
 
I gotta say no, because of what some of what others have said and my own observations I gripe about my job sometimes because few outside IT really understand what we do. The fact is if you work in IT you have some level of competence with computing and networking systems there is a job for you out there. We should all be smart enough to understand we have some power and some negotiating headroom. Due to our sometimes anti-social/anti-confrontational attitudes the management can take advantage of us, but if we all realize we truly do hold some sway, and we do, we can work wherever the hell we want.

To the dude tied to his blackberry: TELL your boss you aren't taking it with you, don't ask. If you don't like where you are, take the steps to get the heck out of there. Ask yourself what's keeping you there to be treated like that. If the costs outweigh the benefits talk it over with your boss, if you still don't get anywhere move on. Life is too short to be unappreciated and underpaid for a job that requires true skill.
 
all for a job that could be outsourced tomorrow
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sooo... if there is a union, won't they just go ahead and outsource it?

i mean my dad was in manufacturing for years... and although the companies he worked for never actually published it, it was an unsaid rule that if they got a union, the work was going to mexico/china asap...

unions kinda ruined the automotive industry in the US and US motor companies are STILL trying to get back on thier feet...

people are too greedy /thread

if you can build a union that isn't money nuts and unreasonable, then go for it... i dont' think it's possible
 
MrValentine said:
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specilists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me durring off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
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ROFL....

Boss wants to play big brother. Lovely.
 
Unions are better for possibly metal works, grocery stores, etc. IT is too free-based / freelanced.
 
KingPariah777 said:
I don't know...these outsourced workers are making a mockery of the IT field...certifications are now a joke because of Indian cert-factories, and quality is second to quantity.
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maxius said:
something does needs to be done in the it sector. why? companies are keeping their it staff small while increasing their expected workload per person. right now one person at times is doing 2-3 different jobs for a company and the pay is not reflecting that at all.
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I'll repeat what TheBluePill said:

Let the free market work.

Free Enterprise is an unbelievably powerful force. It is a self-righting ship, when it is allowed to work without external "corrections".

Maximus; does it really serve a company to potentially neglect their IT resources? So what if they are suffocating their business operations by running lean and depending heavily on overworked staff? If the staff don't like that, they can go somewhere else or negotiate a better relationship.If they leave, the business will decide if/when they are incapable of hiring quality people in their IT department - they may decide to improve things for the staff, or they may not. If the management's short-sighted behavior causes a critical business failure, the business will either learn to correct that, or fail.
 
Hell no. When it comes time for raises and promotions, I want to know that my hard work will make me stand out. In a union, those things are almost always determined by who's been around longer.
 
MrValentine said:
I would join a union in a heart beat!!! My boss is about to turn on GPS tracking for all Network Support Specilists. When I asked if I could now leave the BB at work. nope.

So now my boss is gonna be tracking me durring off hours and I only have his word that he wont.
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Is there a particular reason why he's doing this? Have you committed a violation of company policy in the past, such as trading company secrets or unauthorized access of company infrastructure from outside or whatever?

If not, get your own phone during off hours. He has no reason to track you when you're not on the clock. But as long as you're using company phone regardless of where you are, he has the rights to use whatever cell plan he wants, including GPS.
 
Azhar said:
Is there a particular reason why he's doing this? Have you committed a violation of company policy in the past, such as trading company secrets or unauthorized access of company infrastructure from outside or whatever?

If not, get your own phone during off hours. He has no reason to track you when you're not on the clock. But as long as you're using company phone regardless of where you are, he has the rights to use whatever cell plan he wants, including GPS.
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If you are expected to work 24/7, Make sure you are being compensated for it. And Approach it like that. If they need access to you like that, and you are comfortable with it, make sure they pay you what its worth.

A 24x7 IT worker should earn at minimum $10K more than an 8x5 worker.

Tell him you want another $20K to be on call.
 
Try and form a union and they'll use it as an excuse to replace us all with outsourced scabs.
 
TheBluePill said:
If you are expected to work 24/7, Make sure you are being compensated for it. And Approach it like that. If they need access to you like that, and you are comfortable with it, make sure they pay you what its worth.

A 24x7 IT worker should earn at minimum $10K more than an 8x5 worker.

Tell him you want another $20K to be on call.
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Oh I agree. I get emails on my Blackberry off the clock too, but my boss expects me to document any offhour work I perform and put it on my timesheet at the end of the week. She's awesome like that.

I'm just saying his boss has the right to put a GPS plan on company phones whenever he wants and if you don't like it, get your own phone, thats all.

But of course it gets tricky when it comes to emergencies. If a server goes down and someone's trying to reach you but you're not carrying your company phone, don't expect to have a job tomorrow lol
 
TheBluePill said:
If you are expected to work 24/7, Make sure you are being compensated for it. And Approach it like that. If they need access to you like that, and you are comfortable with it, make sure they pay you what its worth.

A 24x7 IT worker should earn at minimum $10K more than an 8x5 worker.

Tell him you want another $20K to be on call.
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some Indian dude won't ask for that extra 10-20k...they live in a rented apartment with four other guys. They don't go out. They don't date because they have an arranged wife chilling at home waiting for him to bring back his US-earned cash-cow.

Or better yet, you tell your boss that you want an extra 20k for your 24/7 access, he'll just contact Satyam for your "off-hours"...and will quickly realize that a production support DBA doesn't EVER need to live in this country.

Good luck.
 
any industry unions get involved in starts to fails...

Teacher's unions are ruining public schools, auto-workers unions are were helping bankrupt US car makers, they even ruined 1/3 a baseball season!
 
I don't think we need a Union, I think more IT people need to start standing up to their employers and setting the own demands and pace when it comes to working. Right now I am the Network Administrator at a small company. It is an 8-5(on days that dont end in day..) job and I am the only IT person here besides our Programmer, which means I am in charge of everything. Do I get paid a a separate salary for, Help Desk, Network Security, Network Engineering, Hardware Technician, Server Administrator, Data Technician (phone and conferencing systems), Database Administration, and On Call Support? Nope..

But come my 1 Year review I will present them with a catalog of all the work I did in that year and negotiate a pay raise w/ other terms.. You can't just take what they will give you cause most companies will trying to give as little possible but once you can prove your worth to company it is up to you stand up ask for what you deserve...

And from job hunting I have found the most important thing in IT is experience, and the biggest thing experience effects is the Salaray(usually our bottom line), if you have been working for a company in IT for 5 years and haven't seen a pay raise, you better tell your employer to pony up or I would start looking for a better paying job..
 
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