No, I think when you start taking their towns fast their military costs really put them in dire straights and they dont want to spend 1000 gold + inciting revolts. To me, they seem to prefer ninja actions (although they dont always make the best decisions on what to hit).
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Shogun 2: Total War
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Shantarr.Dalrae
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The state of my current campaign,
I decided to move the brunt of my army up to the borders of Takeda territory and focus on economy for a the time being. I also had to move my ships to prevent surprise attacks on my trade routes as both the pirates and an legendary firebomb ship are roaming in my waters.
As I am organizing my troops my ninja spots not one, two, three or even 4 enemy generals approaching the border but 7. My concern increases when I notice that it was a three way alliance held between Busso, Date and the current shogunate, Takeda. All but Busso have the largest possible armies that may serve under one general.
I dispatched additional ninja, accompanied by a monk and three metsuke in an attempt to spread discord among the enemy. As the agents are making their way to the enemy, I begin construction of bune ships to carry reinforcements from my home province to the south beach of western Japan.
Planning for every possible scenario I initiate a lockdown protocol, building no less than two yari units and four bow units in every province. As the next season passes, Christian riots begin, unhappy with repression. Two of the rioters generals are poised to advance on the provinces they arose from, commanding no less than two thousand men each.
As the ungrateful provinces were already in a restless state, even after having been granted tax exemption, I pulled troops from them into my forward border provinces. This allowed my only two armies to address these incursions, the first was met with swift justice; leaving none to speak of the battle. The second was met with a force half its size, though through clever usage of artillery and the camouflage of the forest, my general was able to route the enemy from my lands.
After clearing out the invasions I thought long and hard about the current state of my lands: Many provinces practiced Christianity, many were tax exempt and many still experienced turmoil; consistently draining my coffers to fill their whimsical needs. Based on this, I mandated a complete clan-wide adoption of Christianity. Upon doing so, all provinces immediately accepted and embraced this new religion and normal level taxes.
This change had breathed a new life into my command as I now possessed over four thousand gold per season, up from only four hundred. In addition to this, I raided the Takeda/Date Trade routes, furthering my economic advantage to an astounding six thousand gold per season!
I rallied my troops and pressed forward to station my three generals near the borders. My ninjas has successfully routed most enemies and even accomplished what I had thought impossible; assassinated the Takeda Daimyo. Not to belittle my metsuke, however, who managed to apprehend and try for the execution of four enemy agents prior to my enemies armies reaching the border provinces gates.
Outnumbered four to one in a glorious battle between my Daimyo's army and that of Takeda's, Date's and Bussho's; I pierced straight into the heart of their troops and cut down any general so bold as to face me in -my- land. Broken, they ran, pursued by both the arrows of my samurai and the fear of their now leaderless provinces.
Undoubtedly, this would allow me a great advantage in the upcoming battles as the enemy marches, face on, into the oblivion I have meticulously prepared for them.
I decided to move the brunt of my army up to the borders of Takeda territory and focus on economy for a the time being. I also had to move my ships to prevent surprise attacks on my trade routes as both the pirates and an legendary firebomb ship are roaming in my waters.
As I am organizing my troops my ninja spots not one, two, three or even 4 enemy generals approaching the border but 7. My concern increases when I notice that it was a three way alliance held between Busso, Date and the current shogunate, Takeda. All but Busso have the largest possible armies that may serve under one general.
I dispatched additional ninja, accompanied by a monk and three metsuke in an attempt to spread discord among the enemy. As the agents are making their way to the enemy, I begin construction of bune ships to carry reinforcements from my home province to the south beach of western Japan.
Planning for every possible scenario I initiate a lockdown protocol, building no less than two yari units and four bow units in every province. As the next season passes, Christian riots begin, unhappy with repression. Two of the rioters generals are poised to advance on the provinces they arose from, commanding no less than two thousand men each.
As the ungrateful provinces were already in a restless state, even after having been granted tax exemption, I pulled troops from them into my forward border provinces. This allowed my only two armies to address these incursions, the first was met with swift justice; leaving none to speak of the battle. The second was met with a force half its size, though through clever usage of artillery and the camouflage of the forest, my general was able to route the enemy from my lands.
After clearing out the invasions I thought long and hard about the current state of my lands: Many provinces practiced Christianity, many were tax exempt and many still experienced turmoil; consistently draining my coffers to fill their whimsical needs. Based on this, I mandated a complete clan-wide adoption of Christianity. Upon doing so, all provinces immediately accepted and embraced this new religion and normal level taxes.
This change had breathed a new life into my command as I now possessed over four thousand gold per season, up from only four hundred. In addition to this, I raided the Takeda/Date Trade routes, furthering my economic advantage to an astounding six thousand gold per season!
I rallied my troops and pressed forward to station my three generals near the borders. My ninjas has successfully routed most enemies and even accomplished what I had thought impossible; assassinated the Takeda Daimyo. Not to belittle my metsuke, however, who managed to apprehend and try for the execution of four enemy agents prior to my enemies armies reaching the border provinces gates.
Outnumbered four to one in a glorious battle between my Daimyo's army and that of Takeda's, Date's and Bussho's; I pierced straight into the heart of their troops and cut down any general so bold as to face me in -my- land. Broken, they ran, pursued by both the arrows of my samurai and the fear of their now leaderless provinces.
Undoubtedly, this would allow me a great advantage in the upcoming battles as the enemy marches, face on, into the oblivion I have meticulously prepared for them.
bloodhawke83
I Strike Fear into the Hearts of the Masses
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game crashes when you double click.
Double-click where?
Close button
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Has anyone had the enemy use siege weapons? Right now I'm thinking castles are way too easy to defend but that that could change dramatically if the enemy just knocked down all your walls.
Only fire throwers. Siege weapons in this era are for killing troops not damaging castles apparently. So any that you use are supposed to be for killing troops inside the castle and not doing actual damage.
bloodhawke83
I Strike Fear into the Hearts of the Masses
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i have on where i double clicked a unit and on a different game it was on the ability.
bloodhawke83
I Strike Fear into the Hearts of the Masses
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nope
TwistedAegis
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No siege weapons used against me and I'm fairly far in.
What I'm finding most surprising is that now that I've taken out some fairly large clans, that have come at me with 2 full stacks of armies, that their provinces are completely undeveloped. So apparently the AI just makes all of these troops out of the blue in a bunch of extremely basic provinces.
What I'm finding most surprising is that now that I've taken out some fairly large clans, that have come at me with 2 full stacks of armies, that their provinces are completely undeveloped. So apparently the AI just makes all of these troops out of the blue in a bunch of extremely basic provinces.
No siege weapons used against me and I'm fairly far in.
What I'm finding most surprising is that now that I've taken out some fairly large clans, that have come at me with 2 full stacks of armies, that their provinces are completely undeveloped. So apparently the AI just makes all of these troops out of the blue in a bunch of extremely basic provinces.
Yeah, someone created a mod to prevent them from spawning troops. Don't remember where it is, but the AI does cheat.
TwistedAegis
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If the mod doesn't make the AI actually build out though, I would imagine the game would be really easy. Because as is, if they hadn't of spawned those large armies I would have just bulldozed all of them.
There is a stickied post on the CA forums stating that armies do not spawn....
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/13637-The-Campaign-AI-does-not-get-free-armies-now-sticky
It's possible they used Metsuke's to bribe full stacked armies to join them.
WabeWalker
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Is anybody playing this on Normal?
I'm determined to stat this game in earnest on the weekend, and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't play this the way I used to play games, twenty years ago, which was to dive right in and just play it and play it, and learn from my mistakes, and then ramp up the difficulty later on, once I've gotten a handle on things.
These days, when gaming, I'm too cautious. I try to get it right straight away, and that doesn't always work.
I'm determined to stat this game in earnest on the weekend, and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't play this the way I used to play games, twenty years ago, which was to dive right in and just play it and play it, and learn from my mistakes, and then ramp up the difficulty later on, once I've gotten a handle on things.
These days, when gaming, I'm too cautious. I try to get it right straight away, and that doesn't always work.
WabeWalker
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I like this game, you know. Does this mean you're still going to play it?
Playing normal with either Shimazu or Chosokabe would be a good place to start.
bribing aint cheap tho,
bloodhawke83
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you can't bribe an army when you have no farms, no markets and nothing but full stacks armies, the AI cheats. CA took a shortcut and didn't bothered to develop an AI that can manager the eco, army and and build.
The AI doesn't spawn armies. The army was either bribed, hiding in a forest, or recruited through normal channels.
Taken from another forum,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...AI-does-not-get-free-armies-now-sticky&page=4
And here is the actual code for the AI handicaps,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=434941&page=5
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Why can no one write a game that doesn't rely on outrageous cheats like that to be competitive? The AI can recruit at a 2 to 1 advantage? It gets both extra money and reduced upkeep? Is it really that hard to write AI that can compete by playing even?
TwistedAegis
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Well, the 2:1 and 30% is on Legendary, I'm sure it is scaled down for normal. That's very informative, thanks for the post.
Yes, actually...extremely hard. Humans are very good at adapting to any situation but it is very difficult to write a great AI especially for a game like this. They arent going to write different AI algorithms for each level of difficulty either. This isnt going to change in the next 10-20 years either and it hasnt changed since gaming began.
Yeah, it does kind of suck, but I can deal with it. I prefer to think of it differently though and just assume I am the underdog in every area and still come out ahead.
I know it's hard (and that all the games use the same tricks) - it is just frustrating that we can have games with these amazing graphics, but we're stuck in the 90's as far as AI goes. No matter how you slice it, or try to spin it, making the game harder by letting the AI cheat just feels wrong.
TwistedAegis
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Hmm I'd say we're very far ahead of AI in the 90s. But what you appear to be asking for is an actual intelligent learning computer that can adapt to probably thousands, perhaps millions, of unique variables that work out to perhaps billions of different outcomes and situations.
If you can figure out how to code that, you're sure as hell not putting it into a $50 video game.
If you can figure out how to code that, you're sure as hell not putting it into a $50 video game.
I'd settle for one that wasnt magically able to pay the upkeep on two full stacks of samurai units when he only has 3 provinces whose ports are blockaded (by me), who is on an island, and whose farms have been damaged (on normal or hard difficulty, can't remember which). Is that too much to wish for?
And the AI may be better, but they are still using the same cheats they were using in the very first Civ game.
The AI actually has a penalty on normal difficulty because it manages its economics so efficiently. AI only gets bonuses on hard and above.
I'd like to run in a debug mode or something and be able to see inside the AI's finances. I think they're cooking the books.
Anyone use ninjas to sabotage armies? What kind of attrition do they do? I have been reluctant to sabotage since the cost is so high for big armies, but if the attrition were high enough...
WabeWalker
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Build up your navy then.
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Fun tip: don't carry on too many vassals. They fuck ya in the ass the moment you hit the shogunate. Just had my campaign go to shit because my vassals decided stab me in the back in the last 5 years of my "short campaign."
And hell yeah the AI cheats; even on normal. I've seen my little vassal with 1 province insta-spawn a huge stack. How the hell can he afford that many samurai when he's sending me half his income from that one province, let alone poop out that many of em? The most you can recruit in underdeveloped provinces is 1-2 units at a time.
And hell yeah the AI cheats; even on normal. I've seen my little vassal with 1 province insta-spawn a huge stack. How the hell can he afford that many samurai when he's sending me half his income from that one province, let alone poop out that many of em? The most you can recruit in underdeveloped provinces is 1-2 units at a time.
Ugh. I'm officially not a fan of the realm divide. Kind of ruins the fun of the game when I've spent several hours building my empire, only to have the entire rest of the country turn against me. I guess if I knew when it was coming I could have moved my armies around to be better prepared, but right now I'm getting my ass kicked on three fronts, and the game is not much fun any longer.
Also, it would be nice if there was an undo command. Getting tired of accidentally selecting my entire army and moving them all out of my castle, and not being able to get them back, or selecting the wrong of two closely spaced armies with the same result.
Also, it would be nice if there was an undo command. Getting tired of accidentally selecting my entire army and moving them all out of my castle, and not being able to get them back, or selecting the wrong of two closely spaced armies with the same result.
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Realm Divide is definitely something you have to plan for. If it's something that you can't stand you can try out the standard realm divide mod,
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=436082
You'll have to revert back to a save before realm divide occurred.
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You aren't that prepared then. I have no idea about the realm divide until it actually happened in my game lol
But I was quite prepared. I opted with a holding action for the first few turns (around 3 years worth) before starting a major counter-offensive (which actually never ended until I won the game).
I'll have to try it, but reading the forum it looks like for a lot of people they don't take a diplomatic hit with the mod, but everyone still goes to war with them (and goes back to war even after a peace agreement). So there might be more at play than just the diplo hit. I might try to grind out this campaign - it looks like the AI is doing what it always does and only has minimal garrison forces so if I can get some units behind the lines maybe I can cause some damage.
This is a good read for those wanting help on the economic side of Shogun 2,
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthre...conomy-Guide-for-Shogun-2?highlight=dark+side
http://forums.totalwar.com/showthre...conomy-Guide-for-Shogun-2?highlight=dark+side
Still having fun with the game but getting a bit bored. I was shocked to see my play time at 70 hours already...I dont really even play many games but I have played this one a lot apparently. I feel like it is very very difficult to get a standing trade agreement with anything but the very small or very far away clans, can be a bit frustrating. I am finally winning a campaign on hard as the Uesegi though, they have a damn tough starting location and the Takeda and Hojo are animals.