SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by SaperPL, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. ZombiPL

    ZombiPL Limp Gawd

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    If you are afraid you might buy the wrong cable, check how thick is the wiring. Usually 1mm^2 wire can transfer 6-8 [A] while some books claim even up to 10 [A] should be fine (depending on the instalation conditions (on air or in the graund or in walls), but usually professionals try to keep them in the first range).

    If you already have your power supply, then you know how much power it can take from the wall. For ex. 500W can take up to 500W. You are looking for the rated power, not the power efficiency (in this calculations it doesn't matter if this is silver, gold or platinium efficiency). When you know that, and you know your local AC voltage, then you could just calculate the amperage by yourself (and the needed thickness of the wire) or you could check it with the types of wires that are on the market with one of the "wire online calculators":

    https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2014/04/electrical-wire-cable-size-calculator.html
    https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2014/04/wire-cable-size-calculator.html
    http://myelectrical.com/tools/cable-sizing-calculator
    http://www.doncastercables.com/technical-help/

    If you read somewhere that some cables were catching fire, then probably their wiring was too thin for the amount of amperes people were transferring through at them, or there was some damage in the PSU and it took too many amps (in such case some electrical protector should work). If you already have a cable, just read what is written on its side. Manufactureres usually write its number and the thickness of the wires, and sometimes a rated power for the voltage.

    p.s.
    I see we are in the field of conversation where people will start thinking why professional electrical cabinets have additional, visible grounding wire :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. BlkRazor

    BlkRazor n00bie

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    Thanks for the advice. I've generally just grabbed one off the store shelf and not thought too much about it. It's been just over 4 years since I bought the one I've got but I have more to "protect" than I did then.
     
  3. BlkRazor

    BlkRazor n00bie

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    Thanks! Based off of this it looks like the other cable I already had will do the trick. :)

    And thanks to everyone overall because you all saved me a few dollars too. Hate to spend money unnecessarily.
     
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  4. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    For those excited to play Shadow of War, I can say with certainty it's a beautiful game that pushes your hardware. With everything maxed out on ultra, at 1080p, I'm hitting the limit of the vram on my GTX 1080. After about 2 hours the GPU peaked at 68C and my i7-4790K (delidded running stock speeds with -0.06v undervolt) maxed out at 66C. Ambient temps were around 24C (75F).
    [​IMG]

    As you can see, those with 8gb or less of system ram and less than 8gb of vram are going to have to stick with medium to high even at 1080p. However even with as demanding as this game is, none of my components got too hot in Sentry. Everything stayed below 70C. Really impressed.
     
  5. masteralef

    masteralef n00bie

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    Ej24- I don't know what kind of monitor you have, but have you tried a higher resolution? Curious what happens with gpu temps when you're more gpu limited.
     
  6. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    Only 1080p unfortunately. You are correct, while I am vram limited, I am not gpu limited. With vsync off I get 100-120fps, but all my monitors and TV's are 60hz so no point in going over that. According to HWmonitor the GTX 1080 hit 85% on power draw, so while you're right, I wasn't pushing it to the limit, it's not like it was sitting idle either.

    I do have a 1440p monitor at work... I suppose I could go back and test it after work one day with my Sentry PC :D.
     
  7. riba2233

    riba2233 n00bie

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    You can enable virtual super resolution in nvidia drivers, and set up to 4k resolution on 1080p display.
     
  8. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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  9. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    I'm actually getting the 650-g when my case arrives (hopefully less than 3 weeks) it looks to be a big improvement in noise over the old 600w version but I'm unsure of how that will compare to the corsair one. corsair are known for quality but in getting custom cables for one i found the pinouts weren't great (lots of crossing wires, didn't look great). they both have the same pinouts but silverstones has an additional 4pin sense connector (whatever that does). silverstones might be better if you plan on running close to 600w for whatever reasons as it has greater headroom. in terms of fan quality, corsairs hits between 43-46 DBA in loads excess of 350w (toms hardware) I couldn't find any noise data on silverstones as they only claimed it had a min of 18 DBA. I can test it in person though when i get the damn thing.
     
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  10. wast3gat3

    wast3gat3 n00bie

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    Thanks for letting me know. Another two weeks on and still no delivery.
     
  11. 4884

    4884 [H]Lite

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    I have the 600-g and SF600 but I've never ever noticed any noise coming from them. With light load the fans could spin but so quietly I wouldn't notice. (unless I put my ears just beside the vents) Under stress, the gpu is so much louder I couldn't tell if psu is making noise too.
    I've read many complaints about psu noise but frankly I never understand why.

    I tried to get the new 650-g but it wasn't available at that time. But to be honest I can't think of a sensible setup in sentry that can make use of all that power. Glad I didn't hunt for one. Well perhaps someone will manage to find a itx board for HEDT chips that may use a lot of power but no one's doing that in a sentry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  12. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    Linus Sebastian squeezed a Gtx Titan and an x99 HEDT platform in Sentry. Lol don't doubt people because they'll find ways to prove you wrong.
     
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  13. 4884

    4884 [H]Lite

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    Well I italicized the word "sensible" so I don't think I was wrong haha. He put a high end xeon in it and it throttled. That's not a very sensible setup right? Given the small space we can fit the cpu cooler it's not going to be sufficient for a high power HEDT chip. And if such a cpu is not involved, it's not likely you need more than 600W in the sentry. Again, doing heavy overclocking on both cpu and gpu might but you'd just end up cooking your system lol.;)
     
  14. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    i actually have a few reasons, I'm going with as much headroom as possible to keep noise down and lifespan up. I needed the ports it offered(lots of drives and w/out daisy chains) And I've also seen somewhere that you actually get better gpu performance when using 2 straight 8 power cables instead of splitters and extras, (i think it was also linus) 650w is admittedly 100w more than my main rigs psu (crikey) but for the sake of doing the sentry right, I couldn't resist.
     
  15. 4884

    4884 [H]Lite

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    Oh I've nothing against this psu. In fact I would have gotten this if it was available when I was shopping for one.
    I'm just curious when you said running close to 600W in a sentry build. But if you're just going for even more headroom, sure why not?
     
  16. Rysen

    Rysen Limp Gawd

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    I played this game in 4k in the Ryzen 1600x machine with everything on ultra and it ran at around 45 to 50 FPS
     
  17. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    Based on the details i got from pc part picker, my planned system is using close to 465w, (71% of the psu max) most psu's run most efficiently between 40-80% (pc word article). The extra gives me a nice bit of headroom which should keep the noise down, I did see some horror stories of the 600-G being terribly loud. Which is understandable given the smaller fan. I am likely in the same boat as you are though as I'm going with vega (epic massdrop monitor has got me on the freesync train) so i doubt ill hear it over that thing anyway.
     
  18. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    If you're really interested in learning which psu's are the highest quality (which is not always the same as highest wattage) you should check out Jonny Guru.
     
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  19. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    while it looks like a decent review site, there isn't anything for the 650G. in the end though, my deciding factor were the pin outs. if I'm going to do custom cables i wanted to minimize crossing (not really enough room for adapters)
     
  20. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've stumbled upon this today while double-checking the GPU compatibility for someone and I think this is pretty good example why you SHOULD BE CAREFUL while checking out dimensions of GPU vs our compatibility:

    [​IMG]

    I've made screenshots of mobile view to combine them together, but you can check this on full website as well:

    https://msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1070-AERO-ITX-8G-OC/Specification
    https://pl.msi.com/Graphics-card/GeForce-GTX-1070-AERO-ITX-8G-OC/Specification

    It is EXACTLY THE SAME CARD with COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS on same site but with PL region selected...

    And note this on the bottom:

    Means that the card specs can may be completely innacurate.

    Also as a reminder - here's Zotac's 1080 mini RENDER FROM THEIR PRODUCT PAGE:

    [​IMG]

    Versus REAL LIFE PHOTO FROM REVIEW:

    [​IMG]

    Note that in the render there is no oversize above the PCI bracket end AND also reference PCB part holding the DVI connector at the bottom of the PCI bracket is missing as well.

    So be careful with those short cards especially if size numbers seem to good to be true :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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  21. rfarmer

    rfarmer Gawd

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    Thanks for the post, I am soon to do a new build in a Fire MI-6 and will need an itx graphics card with very specific size limitations. It is pretty bad when you can't trust the vendors own website.
     
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  22. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    thanks for the heads up. in this situation though i would suggest you look at their specifications packet that comes with the card. the manual is usually online so the specifications would be correct on those.
     
  23. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    The point is to choose a fitting card before you buy it. If you have the card already then you can check the dimensions yourself or just check if it fits in your case :)
     
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  24. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Limp Gawd

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    I'm sure this has been asked a lot, but would it be possible to include a bracket for a 120mm AIO to use with a short graphics card?
     
  25. 7x1x

    7x1x n00bie

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    If you have your M.2 drive on the back of the motherboard, buy a thermal pad.
    I ran single 8GB read write test with CrystalDiskMark. The pad was 5mm thick rated at 5W/mK and the ambient temperature was 23°C.

    Idle dropped from 45°C to 31°C.
    Maximum dropped from 75°C to 41°C.
     
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  26. forScience

    forScience n00bie

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    You probably could, but it's most likely a low end card which kinda defeats the need for water cooling unless you mainly do cpu intensive tasks. I found some tiny radiators here which could let u use a bigger gpu: https://modmymods.com/radiators.html. Maybe u could some how mod a radiator on the outside of the case?
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  27. Adebear

    Adebear n00bie

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    First time post for me, Ive got a GTX 1080 and i7 4790k in my sentry and Im having heat issues don't no where Im going wrong? My CPU was thermal throttling so I delidded it and used liquid metal pro on the dye cooling with noctua l9i with mx4 tim and Im still hitting 80'c plus in games even 90'c sometimes plus Ive changed settings in XTU. Ive also removed the io shield for more airflow and sealed the CPU and GPU compartments off. Just don't know where to go from here?
     
  28. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    A few things to consider,

    First it seems obvious, but what's your ambient temp? If your room temp is like 30C that will obviously throw things off.

    Which way is your cpu cooler oriented? Are the fins parallel to your ram? Or perpendicular? If perpendicular, I'd suggest rotating the cooler 90 degrees so it can breath better. So many people mount their cooler with the fins trying to exhaust half the air into the ram and the other half pointed at the i/o shield, it's got nowhere to go. At least if it's parallel to the ram, half will go straight out the side of Sentry.

    I'm using a Thermolab LP53 cooler with the fan from the nh-l9i. So there's that to consider too. In my own testing I observed about 8-11C decrease in temps with the lp53 versus the nh-l9i. Even with this in mind, you should still max out around 80C in normal games.

    MX4 TIM is good, at least as far as I know it's equivalent to noctua NT h1 which I usually use. (though I'm currently currently trying Cryonaut, it's really good but expensive). So if you're really determined to lower temps you could try those.

    As for voltage and clock control I wouldn't use Intel XTU as my first line of cpu control. I strongly suggest using your bios/uefi to properly control the cpu clocks and voltage.

    The only changes I've made in bios is to the cpu vcore voltage which I have running a negative offset of -0.06v. Clocks are stock. So it turbos to 4.4ghz on all 4 cores most of the time but only ever reaches 1.15v vcore under max load iirc. How far you can undervolt will depend on your particular cpu. Start with -0.05v and run Cinebench or something demanding, if it survives a few rounds go down -0.01v more. Keep going until it crashes or fails to boot, or maintain boost clocks, then set it to the last known good voltage. My temps dropped a lot from undervolting. Peak package power according to hwmonitor used to be 140W. Now it's more like 110W, but usually around 80W during gaming.

    I also used foam rubber weatherstripping to create a seal around the perimeter of my cpu fan to ensure it can only draw in fresh air and not recycle any hot exhaust from inside the case. It's hard to get just right, takes some trial and error. At first my fan was rubbing on the foam and made a ton of noise but I eventually I got the foam placed correctly just outside the body of the fan. This alone will drop temps 10C in most cases. It's not necessarily pretty but it works really well. I also added dust filters everywhere and they had no impact on cooling performance.
    [​IMG]

    I also did the same for my 1080 FE.

    [​IMG]
    I'm not sure what model of 1080 you have but it works well with the founders edition. I recommend a few cm of space between the foam and fan rather than tightly circling the fan to make sure it can breath freely.

    Try some of these things to see if they help.

    Edit:

    I like to compare cooling in Sentry with cooling in a laptop. You're not going to have a big open, hollow space to fill with air driven by 140mm fans. You must bring the fresh air straight to the cpu or gpu fan like you see in most laptops where the fan is right at the case vent, drawing in cool air. Once you start thinking of it like that it's a bit easier to solve cooling issues. But that's just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  29. Adebear

    Adebear n00bie

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    Thanks for your detailed response. My rooms temps are usually no more than 23'c and do have the cpu cooler fitted with exhaust not facing the ram, i did originally have the cryorig micro c7 cooler but found it very loud. I will definitely try the foam strips around the fan and reseat the cooler with some other tim. I did have the gigabyte GTX 1080 blower style card but found that to run loud and hot too so swapped it out for a no reference Gigabyte GTX 1080 which runs not as loud but same temp. Not sure if the foam would work there. I do have the case set up vertically too haven't tried it horizontally as I do have the room on my desk. Will also try a under volt in the bios. I did do a bit of searching on an intel forum and found that some mobos like mine a gigabyte z97n gaming 5 can make the cpu draw more power than it should.
     
  30. Gr8Scott

    Gr8Scott n00bie

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    Which thermal pad did you go with? Link please!
     
  31. 7x1x

    7x1x n00bie

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  32. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    what weather strips did you end up getting? could you link them? I've had some trouble identifying which ones would work
     
  33. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    To be honest I wasn't too picky in which one I got. I just got dense foam rubber with adhesive backing. This is the one I got, but anything similar will work.
     
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  34. Ej24

    Ej24 Limp Gawd

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    Wow those do have a high conductivity for 5mm pads. I'll keep them in mind for whenever I upgrade to a platform with m.2 nvme support.
     
  35. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    the new Silverstone SX650-G has a compatibility issue with the Sentry :(
     

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  36. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    I'm not sure what I'm looking at, do the screw holes not line up? if that is the case it can be addressed (tape and zip ties forever!)
    try unscrewing the other side and getting that bit screwed in first or going diagonally with the ones you screw in, they are made to a standard to its unlikely that they aren't compatible
     
  37. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    the power plug hits the metal
     
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  38. 7x1x

    7x1x n00bie

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    RevoFox had the same problem with a Corsair SF450.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2017 at 12:57 PM
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  39. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons n00bie

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    im sure you can source the cable at a different angle, or even heat bend the cable to fit the current one
     
  40. kingtron

    kingtron Limp Gawd

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    BADBB4BE-5504-4BF9-A8C2-3EF740A3AB50.jpeg 2CBBB5BC-438A-4F57-8CF6-E9549533EEE6.jpeg cutting the plastic with a heated cutter solved the problem
     
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