SecuROM DRM: Who Has *Actually* Been Affected?

[ObscureTerror]

With all this talk of SecuROM/DRM, and the many issues involved having been discussed, there's one things I've not seen stated, and that's who (if anyone) has been affected and how.

Not including limited installs (which affects everyone), who has actually - truthfully - been affected by SecuROM?

It has caused some various and random problems for people, but while it might install itself as a rootkit does, and despite it's "dastardly" ring0 connection in your OS, what affect has it really had?

I'm in no way an "advocate" of SecuROM/DRM bullshit, believe strongly in consumer rights and certainly don't want any garbage installed on my system(s) that shouldn't be there and might have the potential for causing some issues...

...however, from a reasonable adult perspective, this is getting blow way out of proportion.

The newer, more invasive versions of SecuROM certainly are rootkit-like in ways, however:

- SecuROM is not rootkit or a trojan
- it doesn't "watch" or "track" everything on your system
- it's not a keylogger and cant trace or store or report credit card numbers, passwords or any other information from/on your system
- it cant "take control over" or "dictate" what you do on your system, with the exception of the game itself (which is bad, obviously) and possibly some third-party burning/imaging software
- it's not "reporting" to anyone "every software program you have installed", as I've heard claimed
- it does not "kill" drives - "disable" from working properly with the game or burning software, in worst case scenario, and you'd have to reformat, but it doesn't actually damage hardware; it does not "cause your DVD drive to go into PIO mode and if not corrected quickly, will eventually trash your drive", as I've seen stated

While I know the issues some have had, the worst being burning drives being "disabled" - primarily third-party burning software, emulators, virtual drives etc. - and some game crashes, seriously... who has ever had massively serious issues?

Most people do not even have any of the things I've listed above happen to them at all, period.

If choose to not buy/play games that use SecuROM, I can understand why, to a point, and that's your choice, but then don't plan on doing much gaming in the near future compared to what you could be doing, because SecuROM and like DRM schemes aren't going anywhere.

I'd like to know, seriously, with all the hoopla surrounding this issue, who has actually had significant problems. Don't bullshit, be honest. I know well over fifty gamers between friends and clans (many of us older at that, so there's no immature ranting over paranoid fantasies) and I seriously cant name a single one who's had anything more than a random crash or an activation issue, and that's only a couple/few out of the many, many people I personally know.

All this "SecuROM installs itself at ring0 and takes over your PC" bullshit has got to stop, and people need to calm down.

Installation limits are a definitive issue, and a way we're all affected, but as for anything else... seriously...

SecuROM has been around a long time, and I've installed games with the older version (such as F.E.A.R. and before) up to Mass Effect, Crysis Warhead etc. and I've never had a single problem with a burner reading a disc, burning shit from my system to disc, not a single crash due to SecuROM... nothing. This is also counting the multiple reformats, upgrades, reinstalls (of all these games at once, at that) and replaying of these games that all utilize SecuROM.

Yes, I'm always concerned that something could happen with such an invasive app installing itself in the guts of my system. No, I definitely don't friggin' want it there. But, man... if people are going avoid every game that is utilizing SecuROM, because of what it "could do" in theory, you might as well give up gaming, and seriously be wearing a tinfoil hat.

Who here has been hacked due to the "venerabilities" SecuROM supposedly leaves open to hackers?
Who's had their personal information stolen due to SecuROM?
Who's been tracked down looking at pr0n due to SecuROM?

Yes, it can cause some system problems and instabilities for some people, but the biggest issue is the installation limits they're now using SecuROM to impose upon the consumer. That's the biggest problem.

Otherwise, installation limits aside, I'd like to see how many people have actually had major system problems due to SecuROM.

Flame away, if you want to waste your time, but I think it's time people put their money where their mouth is, and drop a serious and honest post about it, because for all the paranoid bitching going around everywhere, I haven't seen a single person here state that they've actually had problems due to SecuROM or what those problems were, and I find that a little curious.

So, if you've actually had problems more than a random game crash and not including install limits, be honest and drop a post about it, because it's otherwise all simply conjecture and ranting from people who've never actually experienced any major issues from this supposed "horror show" of an app., in which case, people should just get back to actually discussing games and gaming.

 

[phide]

I had some issues with the SecuROM-protected Crysis DVD. I would say that maybe 30% of the time, it would be unable to validate the disc and would refuse to launch the game. Usually launching the executable again did the trick, though in some cases the tray would have to be cycled for Crysis to launch. In seem to recall having to reboot once to get Crysis to launch, though that may have been some other game.

 

[Ragenrok]

I ahvent had any problem wiht it. My concern with it is the way it installs itself, and is un-removable by normal un-installing

 

[Ron FTL]

0 problems here.

You couldn't even tell it was on my system.
I bought Bioshock and didn't have and PC issues with that game either.

 

[AtramentiA]

I'd be curious about this as well, since I've not noticed anyone really mention any issues they've had themselves. I haven't had any issues to date.

I had the constant "clicking DVD drive" issue with Crysis myself as it was reading the disc, but no other issues in general. Crysis has crashed on me quite a few times back when, but I attribute that more to the game itself, than to SecuROM.

I really try to not bother worrying about it anymore, as I've posted elsewhere, though of course I don't like how it installs itself either. I think my biggest issue is the install limits being enforced by companies via SecuROM, and it's invasive use in that manner, over anything else.

 

[Frostex]

I dont recall any issues with securom games, it's the principle of the thing, just because something hasn't effected me now, doesn't mean that it wont in the future.

Thats a real adult way of thinking, planning ahead and having some foresight, you dont buy a car that the manufacturer can flip a kill switch on at any time, because it doesn't matter why or when it happens, all that matter is that they shouldn't have that power over you in the first place.

The argument that it hasn't effected you is stupid and naive, I hope everyone can see why that is.

 

[exe163]

I don't see any reason of it being there at all. Avid gamer wouldn't copy the disk and share online. Those who intended to do that they will get past SecuROM without trouble. Removing it will increase sells from antiDRMist and wouldn't lose a single more dollar from piracy.

 

[edifyingkarma]

I don't see any reason of it being there at all. Avid gamer wouldn't copy the disk and share online. Those who intended to do that they will get past SecuROM without trouble. Removing it will increase sells from antiDRMist and wouldn't lose a single more dollar from piracy.

In fact theyd probably lose less from piracy IMO. I can say with certainty that some people will pirate a game because it DOES have DRM that would have otherwise bought the game. I dont understand how these bean counters come to these conclusions.

 

[{EB}NuTSymPToM{EB}]

I have one friend who only has a DVDRW drive that he uses to back all of his DVD's up digitally with. He uses ripping software and puts all of his movies into a shared folder on his network and can watch them through his HTPC.

He bought Crysis on my advice and his disc drive has been acting up since. He also couldn't use his software to rip his movies. He reformatted and now has two partitioned installs, one for gaming, one for movies. I wish I knew SecuROM had a removal tool so he didn't have to put 50+ DVD's back on his harddrive.

I don't like SecuROM or anything invasive like that but I don't download/rip/etc. I'll buy a game with SecuROM but I won't buy a game with limited installs. That's where I've drawn the line.

 

[Rurik]

Took awhile to read through the overly verbose and biased OP

I was unable to complete a work project on time due to a SecuROM game. My work requires me to use a number of malware analysis and forensic tools. Many of these tools were targeted by SecuROM and prohibited from running.

It took me quite a long time to realize that a stupid game (I can't even recall which one now) had caused all of the grief. That project was writing a spyware analysis portion of a published IT book. To meet my deadline, I had to completely change every program I was using to find ones that would work, which means that my chapter avoided the most obvious programs that are in use, which caused me much embarrassment as I was called out on why didn't I use Process Explorer, a program that SecuROM blocked.

And I'm sure the DRM shills will come in and poke holes and say that I could've done ABC and XYZ. It seems a bit silly now in retrospect, as it happened a few years back. But, at the core, SecuROM put me into a real bind that I'll never forget. It was at that point that I decided that I could no longer "trust" games on my only PC, and I moved completely to console gaming. While I'll admit that SecuROM and the publishers that use it, are becoming more lenient, there's definitely a line that was drawn when you are afraid to install a program on your computer.

There have been a great many PC games that I have been interested in, like Crysis, but I haven't bit the bullet and probably won't. I just can't put myself in that position again where I have to second guess if a game will let me keep my jobs.

 

[Draax]

Tages copy protection has caused many problems for me. For starters Clear Sky is not playable on my laptop. Many people with either a combo DVD/blu-ray or HD DVD drive have this same issue. In addition one day while teaching my Energy System Engineering Tech students, using my laptop, I had a message pop up on screen repeatedly saying something to the effect of "invalid volume please insert STALKER clear sky DVD, and there was no CD or DVD in the drive.

 

[Technoob]

securom killed my parents

 

[shansoft]

I reinstall / Format / Change hardware a lot on my PC..

And its getting really annoying to keep activating the damn game.. and only allow 3 activation ? WOoo

For people who saying you can request another activation by contacting EA...

Here is the respond from EA that I got..


Hi,

Thank you for writing to EA.com account services.

We only provide 3 activations per game/code and you can only activate the game on maximum three computers.
If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires.

Note: Re-installing your operating system will count as a "new computer" installation.

Please get back to me if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
EARep Sabin,
Electronic Arts.


so..DO THEY PROVIDE ANOTHER ACTIVATION ?

the answer is NO

Do I get affected? The answer is quite obvious...

 

[ObscureTerror]

Took awhile to read through the overly verbose and biased OP

I was unable to complete a work project on time due to a SecuROM game. My work requires me to use a number of malware analysis and forensic tools. Many of these tools were targeted by SecuROM and prohibited from running.

It took me quite a long time to realize that a stupid game (I can't even recall which one now) had caused all of the grief. That project was writing a spyware analysis portion of a published IT book. To meet my deadline, I had to completely change every program I was using to find ones that would work, which means that my chapter avoided the most obvious programs that are in use, which caused me much embarrassment as I was called out on why didn't I use Process Explorer, a program that SecuROM blocked.

And I'm sure the DRM shills will come in and poke holes and say that I could've done ABC and XYZ. It seems a bit silly now in retrospect, as it happened a few years back. But, at the core, SecuROM put me into a real bind that I'll never forget. It was at that point that I decided that I could no longer "trust" games on my only PC, and I moved completely to console gaming. While I'll admit that SecuROM and the publishers that use it, are becoming more lenient, there's definitely a line that was drawn when you are afraid to install a program on your computer.

There have been a great many PC games that I have been interested in, like Crysis, but I haven't bit the bullet and probably won't. I just can't put myself in that position again where I have to second guess if a game will let me keep my jobs.

"Biased"? Where do you see "bias"? Not at all... just attempting to get the plethora of people who complain about it, to give legitimate scenarios for why they live in such "paranoia"...

Such as your scenario, the likes of which I have heard happen, and that's unfortunate that it did, but it doesn't make up the majority of what people experience. You had the unfortunate situation where you were one of the few that had such a bad and extreme experience.

It seems people aren't reading closely enough... or reading too much into... my point.

I dont recall any issues with securom games, it's the principle of the thing, just because something hasn't effected me now, doesn't mean that it wont in the future.

Thats a real adult way of thinking, planning ahead and having some foresight, you dont buy a car that the manufacturer can flip a kill switch on at any time, because it doesn't matter why or when it happens, all that matter is that they shouldn't have that power over you in the first place.

The argument that it hasn't effected you is stupid and naive, I hope everyone can see why that is.

As for you, half-whit... before you resort to judging others as "stupid" or "naive", perhaps you need to address your own obviously clear bias (unlike my self) attitude regarding the situation.

I never - as it painfully obviously - stated, or made it sound as if I was basing this off "only my experience". How many people did I say I knew? How much did I state I've paid attention over time with those I know personally, as well as others? Pay attention.

No, no one should have control over such things as install limits, enforced online activations etc. ...but that's a far cry from anyone having a "kill switch" they can "just flip", and all of a sudden you're fucked. Having "foresight" from the place you're coming from is not "adult", it's completely over-blown.

I'm not "defending" fucking SecuROM, but making a point: there are far too many people who don't and have never had problems that get themselves whipped up into a frenzy over the issue and rant and rave over something that's never once effected them adversely. Apparently, you'd be one of them, because you've obviously had no problems yourself with SecuROM, you're just "waiting to"... not really rational.

If you want to live your life worrying about "what might happen", you might as well find some way to another dimension where nothing bad can ever happen.

Because it's nowhere near the "car example" you likened it to, which is just simply ridiculous. Not that said example was rational in the first place anyway.

If you're not going to take the time to understand what I'm getting at or the point of what I've written, don't bother responding. It just amounts to eye pollution.

Otherwise, don't twist what others say just to satisfy your own agenda, and then claim to be thinking "adult", when you clearly catastrophize things.

But, you're welcomed to be as paranoid as you wish, twist my words and hurl insults, if that makes you feel "adult" or "intelligent".

If you (as in anyone) have actually been effected, I'm sure there are those others out there who'd like to hear about it. Due to the "mass hysteria" over SecuROM recently, it's a perfectly reasonable request, especially with so many making such a fuss...

...a "fuss" I never said wasn't warranted, just not from the majority of those making the fuss.

 

[damonposey]

I dont recall any issues with securom games, it's the principle of the thing, just because something hasn't effected me now, doesn't mean that it wont in the future.

Thats a real adult way of thinking, planning ahead and having some foresight, you dont buy a car that the manufacturer can flip a kill switch on at any time, because it doesn't matter why or when it happens, all that matter is that they shouldn't have that power over you in the first place.

The argument that it hasn't effected you is stupid and naive, I hope everyone can see why that is.

If you think a developer will ever flip a switch and kill your software, then its you who are naive. paranoid mostly, but naive too.

 

[shansoft]

"Biased"? Where do you see "bias"? Not at all... just attempting to get the plethora of people who complain about it, to give legitimate scenarios for why they live in such "paranoia"...

Such as your scenario, the likes of which I have heard happen, and that's unfortunate that it did, but it doesn't make up the majority of what people experience. You had the unfortunate situation where you were one of the few that had such a bad and extreme experience.

It seems people aren't reading closely enough... or reading too much into... my point.



As for you, half-whit... before you resort to judging others as "stupid" or "naive", perhaps you need to address your own obviously clear bias (unlike my self) attitude regarding the situation.

I never - as it painfully obviously - stated, or made it sound as if I was basing this off "only my experience". How many people did I say I knew? How much did I state I've paid attention over time with those I know personally, as well as others? Pay attention.

No, no one should have control over such things as install limits, enforced online activations etc. ...but that's a far cry from anyone having a "kill switch" they can "just flip", and all of a sudden you're fucked. Having "foresight" from the place you're coming from is not "adult", it's completely over-blown.

I'm not "defending" fucking SecuROM, but making a point: there are far too many people who don't and have never had problems that get themselves whipped up into a frenzy over the issue and rant and rave over something that's never once effected them adversely. Apparently, you'd be one of them, because you've obviously had no problems yourself with SecuROM, you're just "waiting to"... not really rational.

If you want to live your life worrying about "what might happen", you might as well find some way to another dimension where nothing bad can ever happen.

Because it's nowhere near the "car example" you likened it to, which is just simply ridiculous. Not that said example was rational in the first place anyway.

If you're not going to take the time to understand what I'm getting at or the point of what I've written, don't bother responding. It just amounts to eye pollution.

Otherwise, don't twist what others say just to satisfy your own agenda, and then claim to be thinking "adult", when you clearly catastrophize things.

But, you're welcomed to be as paranoid as you wish, twist my words and hurl insults, if that makes you feel "adult" or "intelligent".

If you (as in anyone) have actually been effected, I'm sure there are those others out there who'd like to hear about it. Due to the "mass hysteria" over SecuROM recently, it's a perfectly reasonable request, especially with so many making such a fuss...

...a "fuss" I never said wasn't warranted, just not from the majority of those making the fuss.

"Affect" comes with different situation, not just physically but also come with mental problem sometime.

The car example is quite good, its a essential example for how you feel and what drive your nuts.

And yes, this is part of the category of been "Affected".

The definition from dictionary.com


affected
8 dictionary results for: affected
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
af·fect·ed1 /əˈfɛktɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[uh-fek-tid] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. acted upon; influenced.
2. influenced in a harmful way; impaired, harmed, or attacked, as by climate or disease.
3. (of the mind or feelings) impressed; moved; touched: She was deeply affected by their generosity.



As you see, its a influence from DRM....

Also the other example about secureROM been screwing people up when doing IT stuffs...that end up with me too, so its not just 1 person who experience the problem, in this situation is more than 1

 

[shansoft]

If you think a developer will ever flip a switch and kill your software, then its you who are naive. paranoid mostly, but naive too.

It is a example of how things been done..

And yes, Microsoft has done it before... so its not paranoid ...

------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, this is quite funny situation for me right now..

I "BOUGHT" the game, and I am using CRACK on it :S

I cant follow the logic there...

so I basically pay 29 dollar over Crysis Warhead "Box Set"

With only 3 times game play..

When did GAME market starts doing OEM now :S

 

[Rurik]

"Biased"? Where do you see "bias"? Not at all... just attempting to get the plethora of people who complain about it, to give legitimate scenarios for why they live in such "paranoia"...

Biased may be the wrong word. But, very lengthy even to the point where you welcomed flames, which tends to make people believe that you're one-sided. It was a bit hard to read through

 

[Technoob]

If you think a developer will ever flip a switch and kill your software, then its you who are naive. paranoid mostly, but naive too.

Amazon and walmart both sold drm'ed movies, then pulled the plugs on their respective services. It took lawsuits being filed to get them to give their customers the right to keep their movies. It wouldn't be shocking for EA or someone to buy valve, release stEAm, and require you to pay reactivation fees, or even buy your games again. DRM'ed materials aren't guaranteed to work the way physical media is, which is exactly why most companies want to push digital downloads. If they can control the secondary market, they win.

 

[archevilangel]

I reinstall / Format / Change hardware a lot on my PC..

And its getting really annoying to keep activating the damn game.. and only allow 3 activation ? WOoo

For people who saying you can request another activation by contacting EA...

Here is the respond from EA that I got..


Hi,

Thank you for writing to EA.com account services.

We only provide 3 activations per game/code and you can only activate the game on maximum three computers.
If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires.

Note: Re-installing your operating system will count as a "new computer" installation.

Please get back to me if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
EARep Sabin,
Electronic Arts.


so..DO THEY PROVIDE ANOTHER ACTIVATION ?

the answer is NO

Do I get affected? The answer is quite obvious...

"If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires." Who the hell installs a game on 3 computers in a ten day period besides benchmarkers?

 

[shansoft]

"If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires." Who the hell installs a game on 3 computers in a ten day period besides benchmarkers?

that is me ... I am doing benchmark

and no..I did not install on "3" Physical Computer...

Read the quote closer.... It mean 3 Virtual Computer... Count every re-installation of OS as 1 Computer.... Isn't that funny?

Also, I OWN THE GAME!!!

Why should I be limit to 3 time installation ? So i paid 29 dollar for a Box-set?

With Pirate Crack in order to make the game run? Wooo..

I cant follow the logic there... So they want me to pirate the game instead of buying them... Is that what they want from me?

 

[Rurik]

"If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires." Who the hell installs a game on 3 computers in a ten day period besides benchmarkers?

1) Home PC
2) Travel laptop
3) Work PC for after-hours fragging
4) HTPC to see what it'd look like on the big screen and to show off to friends

 

[Frostex]

As for you, half-whit... before you resort to judging others as "stupid" or "naive", perhaps you need to address your own obviously clear bias (unlike my self) attitude regarding the situation.

I wasn't judging anyone, my comments were not in reference to anyone specifically, I'm simply saying that grows ups with common sense don't give other people that sort of control over them, it's just not sensible, this is not even specific to games (which is why I made the analogy that no one would buy a car with a kill switch in it, we expect better in every other part of our lives, but somehow it's acceptable with software?)

I never - as it painfully obviously - stated, or made it sound as if I was basing this off "only my experience". How many people did I say I knew? How much did I state I've paid attention over time with those I know personally, as well as others? Pay attention.

I dont know what you're rambling about now, I never said you were basing it off your own experience only. When I said "The argument that it hasn't effected you is stupid and naive" I'm talking about the argument in general, whether it applies to this case or ANY case, it's just fundamentally a bad argument to make.

No, no one should have control over such things as install limits, enforced online activations etc. ...but that's a far cry from anyone having a "kill switch" they can "just flip", and all of a sudden you're fucked. Having "foresight" from the place you're coming from is not "adult", it's completely over-blown.

Incorrect. Thats exactly what they have, they have the technical ability to block activations by unique ID and they have the ability to revoke/add activation limits per unique ID. If you read the EULA I think you'll find that they reserve the right to do whatever they want as far as activation goes, any major company add clauses into their contracts to ensure they're not liable for being sued by customers under any circumstance.

That is a far cry from conspiracy theories about them doing so, let me clarify for you, I don't actually believe they sit there in their Dr Evil swivel chairs with a large red kill switch, laughing maniacally turning people off at random.

I'm not "defending" fucking SecuROM, but making a point: there are far too many people who don't and have never had problems that get themselves whipped up into a frenzy over the issue and rant and rave over something that's never once effected them adversely. Apparently, you'd be one of them, because you've obviously had no problems yourself with SecuROM, you're just "waiting to"... not really rational.

I wouldn't say I'm "whipped into a frenzy" about it, I'm mildly disgruntled at the very worst, just because people protest something like Securom with boycotts and post their opinions on forums doesn't mean they're "whipped up into a frenzy".

I'm not "waiting to" have problems, i'm doing the very opposite, I'm avoiding potential problems by avoiding securom, and stupid shit like activation limits, where possible.

If you want to live your life worrying about "what might happen", you might as well find some way to another dimension where nothing bad can ever happen.

Generally speaking, we all worry about what might happen, and if the threat of something bad happening arises we mentally calculate the pro's and cons of altering our behaviour based on the likely threat, pretending that we don't is just stupid.

In this particular case the chance of something happening in one specific case is quite low, over many cases (many games) chances are quite a lot higher, but given that we have alternatives (games without this problem) it's not a huge sacrafice to stop playing the games with this problem, and avoid it all together.

Because it's nowhere near the "car example" you likened it to, which is just simply ridiculous. Not that said example was rational in the first place anyway.

Can you explain why?

If you're not going to take the time to understand what I'm getting at or the point of what I've written, don't bother responding. It just amounts to eye pollution.

I understand your point, you're saying that few of us have not had any real problems (yet) and that we all rant and rave like lunatics over this issue (apparantly). I understand your point entirely...

The problem is that your argument stems from the more general argument that "it hasn't effected me yet, so it's safe" which im saying is fallacious in nature, I'm sure it boils down to a fallacy of large numbers although I'd have to look that up to be sure. Just because something hasn't given us a problem yet, doesn't mean it never will.

You pass this off as simply paranoia, but this is not the case, there are MANY well documented cases of this being a real issue for large groups of people, stop by any tech help forum for a game that contains strict DRM and look at the thousands of posts of complaints about issues concerning activation etc.

Otherwise, don't twist what others say just to satisfy your own agenda, and then claim to be thinking "adult", when you clearly catastrophize things.

But, you're welcomed to be as paranoid as you wish, twist my words and hurl insults, if that makes you feel "adult" or "intelligent".

What did I twist? Where? Explain your accusations please.

My whole comment was general in context and not aimed at any one person, I was not insulting anyone directly, simply stating that a particular kind of argument is stupid, which it is, as explained above.

If you (as in anyone) have actually been effected, I'm sure there are those others out there who'd like to hear about it. Due to the "mass hysteria" over SecuROM recently, it's a perfectly reasonable request, especially with so many making such a fuss...

...a "fuss" I never said wasn't warranted, just not from the majority of those making the fuss.

I'll leave you with this to think about.

I'd say people starving in 3rd world countries isn't directly effecting me, does that mean we can't make a fuss over it being a problem? Is something only a problem when it starts effecting you?

If you think a developer will ever flip a switch and kill your software, then its you who are naive. paranoid mostly, but naive too.

See my comment above about me NOT thinking that.

I did specifically say in my original analogy that "it doesn't matter why or when it happens, all that matter is that they shouldn't have that power over you in the first place."

I made that comment because I knew someone would take the analogy too literaly, I specifically made it to counter that and surprise, here I am explaining my original comment, sigh...

 

[Michaelius]

"If you have installed on more than three computers within a ten day period, you will need to wait until the first installation expires." Who the hell installs a game on 3 computers in a ten day period besides benchmarkers?

Very easy.
Someone buy game and start it - here comes 1 activation
He looks at crappy performance and decide he needs to swap his geforce 8800gt for radeon 4870 - there goes 2 activation
His system is unstable becouse driver cleaners weren't perfect so he needs to reinstall OS here goes 3rd activation
But after two or three days he finds out his radeon is artifacting so he returns it to shop and buys 260gt instead - ups where my 4th activation ?

Hell i actually changed my computer 3 times and reinstalled OSes 2 times beetween first instalation of Witcher and actually playing it.

 

[Slade]

SecurRom has actually affected normal things I do on my computer, like say back up a DVD I own, copy a CD I own etc. I also have security software that securrom tends to prevent from running.

This is something that is unacceptable to me that a piece of game software is limiting me from doing my work. The fact of the matter is that I didn't want this installed on my system, I don't want it running when I'm not playing the game, AND what kind of program dictates to me what I can run on my computer or not.

 

[Chombo]

I have been directly affected by SecuROM since I do not have an active internet connection at home I have been unable to install the game.

It seems ironic that the people most affected by SecuROM are the people who would be unable to download a copy anyway.

 

[Frostex]

If all you're after is purely people who have had issues, search for a game using securom, go find the official forums, and hop into the tech support forum, every game sporting draconian DRM has forums packed full of users having all number of issues.

 

[Riftsaw]

No ill effect(s) from Securom here.

Also is it really true that something as minor as a video card upgrade can eat up one of your activations?

 

[damonposey]

If all you're after is purely people who have had issues, search for a game using securom, go find the official forums, and hop into the tech support forum, every game sporting draconian DRM has forums packed full of users having all number of issues.

we're gonna need some evidence of forums FULL of people with issues. because i doubt they are full at all. Also it's not an 'issue' if someone can't install the game on 6 different PCs.

 

[Vermillion]

I've never had a problem with SecuRom itself. The activation thing has never bothered me either because I don't ususally have to reinstall my games but plenty of others have been bothered by it.

My only real gripe with SecuRom is that it runs all the time which can and has caused other people grief. Plus there's no way to uninstall it. We should have a way to remove it or stop it from running when the game it came with isn't running.

 

[phide]

I find it highly amusing that ObscureTerror started this thread to garner user experiences with SecuROM. We now have a decent-sized handful of posts related to individual user experiences with SecuROM, and those are precisely the posts he's completely ignoring. Wouldn't you think he would pay some modicum of attention to such posts -- those posts he specifically asked for? Perhaps a "thanks for sharing your experiences"? Why did he start such a thread anyway, if his only intention is to oversee and encourage its devolution into yet another cookie-cutter DRM thread?

What a fucking sham. I feel entirely misled.

 

[damonposey]

Do you need a hug?

 

[phide]

Yeah, would you mind?

 

[Draax]

I find it highly amusing that ObscureTerror started this thread to garner user experiences with SecuROM. We now have a decent-sized handful of posts related to individual user experiences with SecuROM, and those are precisely the posts he's completely ignoring. Wouldn't you think he would pay some modicum of attention to such posts -- those posts he specifically asked for? Perhaps a "thanks for sharing your experiences"? Why did he start such a thread anyway, if his only intention is to oversee and encourage its devolution into yet another cookie-cutter DRM thread?

What a fucking sham. I feel entirely misled.

QFT. I posted my problems with TAGES copy protection and it went entirely ignored. I'm not really sure what the purpose of this thread is, maybe a troll ... maybe flame bait ... either way its a waste of space. The tone of OP kinda gives it away.

 

[Azureth]

No ill effect(s) from Securom here.

Also is it really true that something as minor as a video card upgrade can eat up one of your activations?

No.

 

[Azureth]

I hate SecuROM too unfortunately because of my handicap I have a very difficult time playing console games so I normally need to get the PC version for it's customizable controls so if I want to play I have little choice but to deal with it. It hasn't effected me luckily. The limited installs and authentication is really stupid though, why even bother releasing it in stores if you need to use the internet to play it?

I remember during the whole constant reauthorization of ME debacle many U.S Military men were complaining how they wouldn't be able to play it and EAs respons was just "Tough luck". You think the suit against SucuROM will do anything? Considering how people sue others for the most trivial things I'm surprised this hasn't been done before.

 

[ObscureTerror]

Well, I'm not here to "solve" the issue, only to get an honest discussion going regarding the issue. Yes, I've been to countless forums where I've seen countless complaints. Not my point, nor is it "flamebait", though I know my tone sounded "annoyed".

Reason being, is that there are so many threads that have been started here over the last few weeks, with a plethora of people truly "going off" regarding the issue, but nary a one ever mentioning ever having had personal issues with SecuROM.

As I've said, I'm neither defending it's use (I'm completely against it) nor am I "downplaying" the concerns that people have. However, it's been so "all-consuming" around here, with many really "playing into" the entire issue, it'd be "nice" to see how many of those individuals have actually had problems themselves, and just how much of this is a little "overblown paranoia" or "jumping on the bandwagon".

There's a hell of a lot of complaining, rightfully so, but with no one (until now), here, expressing their personal experiences.

The issue of the principal is already there, and I'm right there with it and everyone else on the issue. So I'm not addressing the principal, just the "general mentality".

It's also helpful to actually hear what people have experienced in terms of having issues with SecuROM and what it can/has effected in different cases/situations. Otherwise, it's just irritating to see, not people "ranting" about the principal... that's understandable... but all the issues they're so concerned about regarding SecuROM.

If this clears things up...

I never said there was no validity to the issue, just comparing the amount of people here going on about the technical aspects, vs how many have actually had issues.

On that note, I'm certainly displeased to see some of the more serious issues that some have stated here, and would hope that no one, you or my self, has to experience anything such as some of things mentioned here again in the future.

 

[archevilangel]

Very easy.
Someone buy game and start it - here comes 1 activation
He looks at crappy performance and decide he needs to swap his geforce 8800gt for radeon 4870 - there goes 2 activation
His system is unstable becouse driver cleaners weren't perfect so he needs to reinstall OS here goes 3rd activation
But after two or three days he finds out his radeon is artifacting so he returns it to shop and buys 260gt instead - ups where my 4th activation ?

Hell i actually changed my computer 3 times and reinstalled OSes 2 times beetween first instalation of Witcher and actually playing it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think changing your video card alone eats an activation.

 

[AtramentiA]

I could be wrong, but I don't think changing your video card alone eats an activation.

Actually, supposedly it can, due to the fact that SecuROM deems any hardware change as a "new system", when at it's most invasive.

I'd be curious to know, for those here who've had negative experiences... with what games? What programs/drives were botched and how?

I don't concern myself as much as some others, aside from the principal of the whole issue, but with as invasive as it's getting, it does sometimes give me pause with new titles hitting shelves in the near future.

Far Cry 2, for example... would hate to have my SATA DVD ROM/burner not be able to read the disc or not be able to backup my system due to any third-party progs being "flagged" by SecuROM. I had no problems with Crysis Warhead, which is using the same version of SecuROM as upcoming games, but I've been a little hesitant with FC2 the more I've thought about it.

I believe in just doing what you enjoy without worrying about it too much, and if something happens, well... reformat time. But I will admit, it's getting a little harder to not be "concerned" to some degree about having system issues.

 

[k1pp3r]

Also, I OWN THE GAME!!!

No, you don't acctually, you own a plastic CD thats about it, and the manual

Beside's that, i think there are some confirmed issues with secureROM and other DRM, the one major cause of this is the vast amount of different PC makers. You simply can not test on all of them, and due to the nature of the software, issues can occure.