legcramp
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2004
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We don’t have to do the math with you doing it for us.And they have new with the full 5yrs for $325. $14.44/TB for the 2yr warranty and $18.06/TB for 5yr warranty for those doing the math.![]()
I'm going to do it even if I don't post it, lol. I was actually surprised that the deal wasn't cheaper. I though surely it would have broke into the 12s or 13s.We don’t have to do the math with you doing it for us.
So many times a “deal” isn’t really a deal, but the math shows the wayI'm going to do it even if I don't post it, lol. I was actually surprised that the deal wasn't cheaper. I though surely it would have broke into the 12s or 13s.
Still a deal since it's on par with the lowest prices per TV on shucks.top and has the same warranty.So many times a “deal” isn’t really a deal, but the math shows the way
I searched their site for this, and it is unclear except that it is clear that these are refurbs by the manufacturer, not by the seller so I would assume the manufacturer. Also, if someone is looking for a better price per TB or a specific a model number with the same 2yr warranty, you can find that in other drive models like:Who provides the refurb warranty, Seagate or the seller?
So to give another data point, I bought the Seagate 16TB Exos when they came out a few years back and have several of the HGST/WD enterprise drives as well. These Exos have been built to challenge the domination of HGST/WD in the enterprise sata space and remind me of the Seagate drives of old where they were the best of the best. They are pretty much the Seagate version of the HGST/WD with similar if not same characteristics in terms of speed, weight, and noise. And since Seagate is pretty much the dominant manufacturer of enterprise SAS drives, my guess is that they just pulled their knowledge from these reliable disks and put them into the Exos line.If it states Manufacturer Recertified, would mean the manufacturer of said drive, has repaired/tested it, aka a refurbished product, and being resold with said warranty applied. If it states Seller recertified, it would mean the seller of said hard drives has had the drive serviced, not knowing by whom. If it stated Authorized Serviced, it would mean a company that is on the approval list from the manufacturer to handle repairs. So Manufacturer recertified is good. Honestly, decent price for the seagate, but it's a seagate....My personal experience has always been terrible with seagate drives over the past decade. However my hitachi drives, which I have more than 10, and some of them still going strong passing smart with over 50,000 hours of use, are still kickin butt. Would definitely recommend the HGST helio drives, as they were hitachi manufactured. Or large capacity white label drives from WD, as they tend to be made from Hitachi's plants (who is now owned by WD).
But also considering how often WD has been selling their enterprise 16tb drives on sale for just under 300 brand new, would be hard pressed on a choice to buy one of these, or wait for those deals again.
Or just wait a bit and buy them brand spanking new, with the 5 year warranty, for $290 each? I had them priced below $300 at both B&H and Amazon early last month.
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So to give another data point, I bought the Seagate 16TB Exos when they came out a few years back and have several of the HGST/WD enterprise drives as well. These Exos have been built to challenge the domination of HGST/WD in the enterprise sata space and remind me of the Seagate drives of old where they were the best of the best. They are pretty much the Seagate version of the HGST/WD with similar if not same characteristics in terms of speed, weight, and noise. And since Seagate is pretty much the dominant manufacturer of enterprise SAS drives, my guess is that they just pulled their knowledge from these reliable disks and put them into the Exos line.
New drives or refurbished drives?I bought eight of the 14TB versions of this and four of them failed so far after less than a year. Seagate's warranty has been fast and good but it's super fucking annoying to have to keep rebuilding the array.
New drives or refurbished drives?
Except that this is the 16TB version so is $18.125/TB and pretty much near the normal price for these drives.Or just wait a bit and buy them brand spanking new, with the 5 year warranty, for $290 each? I had them priced below $300 at both B&H and Amazon early last month.
View attachment 475176
So while mind don't have 100k POH (and honestly you should post those drives to the POH thread: https://hardforum.com/threads/post-your-hard-drive-power-on-hours.1915865/), mine do have over 14k/ea in two different nas units.That's good to know. It's always good to have more choices. Like others I've had bad results with Seagate over the years. When I look at my box of dead hard drives, about 80% of them are Seagate. The idea of trusting 18TB of info to a Seagate drive seems like something only a masochist would do. But when competition keeps prices down, everyone wins. Unfortunately we won't actually know how reliable these drives are until years later. I have 4 Hitachi drives right now with over 100k power-on hours and these things just keep going.
For that many failures, it's either that the drives were damaged in shipping/installation or aren't being cooled sufficiently. These aren't consumer drives that are designed to be whisper quiet and cool to the touch--these are enterprise drives that have heft that you can hear and will burn your hand if you torture it without cooling. It's why I always keep all my fan 100% in anything that has a speed-adjustable fan--because hot electronics are cooking their life away...I bought eight of the 14TB versions of this and four of them failed so far after less than a year. Seagate's warranty has been fast and good but it's super fucking annoying to have to keep rebuilding the array.
For that many failures, it's either that the drives were damaged in shipping/installation or aren't being cooled sufficiently. These aren't consumer drives that are designed to be whisper quiet and cool to the touch--these are enterprise drives that have heft that you can hear and will burn your hand if you torture it without cooling. It's why I always keep all my fan 100% in anything that has a speed-adjustable fan--because hot electronics are cooking their life away...
What is the fan setting on the synology? If it's anything other than 100%, that would be my suspect since a unit that dense needs more internal airflow.They are in a Synology NAS in a 42u rack in a climate controlled room and plenty of airflow. FWIW Backblaze also found a high failure rate on this series I think.
I think prices like this are going to become more normal as factories seem to be nearly done making the shift to these sized drives. And all you need is a single drive and share it if you want to have a home server. It's just that it's risky unless you have proper backups.Dang! This is awesome. Just wish I had the cash to invest in drives/home server.
Interesting as I've been doing it as long as you have. I guess you never used any of Segate's SCSI drives back in the day as they were as fine a drive as possible at the time.I've built my own PC's for 30+ years, and have had 3 drives fail. All 3 were Seagate. I have not bought Seagate HD's for 15 years.
Has their quality improved to the point they are actually trusted suppliers now?
all you need is a single drive
Has their quality improved to the point they are actually trusted suppliers now?
It's not like that for me. Storage and speed is a constant concern. My work is creating photo and video content for myself and clients. Single shoots can easily be a TB (most of the time for short-form commercial content using compressed formats I can get away with a few 100GB's or so). If I was shooting in RAW, basically every hour of video shot would be 1 TB (but I currently am not working with clients where that is necessary. However as you go up the commercial chain, eventually that will be a concern).I think prices like this are going to become more normal as factories seem to be nearly done making the shift to these sized drives. And all you need is a single drive and share it if you want to have a home server. It's just that it's risky unless you have proper backups.
If you're addressing me personally, then it likely will never have access to the internet.QNAP gets pwnd all the time though https://www.qnap.com/en-us/security-advisories
What is the fan setting on the synology? If it's anything other than 100%, that would be my suspect since a unit that dense needs more internal airflow.
Backblaze's finding were only on consumer class drives because they were (foolishly) thinking they could build robust data centers using consumer hardware. What've they've continuously been doing in each iteration of their storage enclosures is introducing more and more enterprise components to reduce the overall maintenance and failures. Another 'disrupter' idea that missed it's mark by the usual 50%...
Yep, except that there's probably already been a 5yr point to a lot of the earlier drives and not real stink about them online.The problem is that it's impossible to know exactly how well new drives will hold up over the years because you can't truly test longevity without allowing time to pass, and these new drives simply haven't been around long enough yet. They could have a 90% failure rate after 5 years and we wouldn't know it yet. Then again these might end up being some of the most reliable drives ever made.
The only other real metric available is the past history of each company, and in that respect Seagate is clearly the worst. I'd love to believe that Seagate has finally gotten better, but I'm also content to let others play the guinea pig while I stick with WD (HGST based drives preferably).
Whole different scenario than the 'just wish I could have a home server' post I was replying to.It's not like that for me. Storage and speed is a constant concern. My work is creating photo and video content for myself and clients. Single shoots can easily be a TB (most of the time for short-form commercial content using compressed formats I can get away with a few 100GB's or so). If I was shooting in RAW, basically every hour of video shot would be 1 TB (but I currently am not working with clients where that is necessary. However as you go up the commercial chain, eventually that will be a concern).
I buy all my drives in pairs right now for redundancy (and I'm currently doing everything the old school way and using Chronosync to manage my duplicates), but I'm hoping in the relatively near term future I can invest in something like a QNAP using either Thunderbolt in DAS or 10GBe in NAS. And it will likely have to be 8 bays minimum and ideally 12+ bays (+slots for NVME drives and/or SSDs to help move things along). Basically single drives are "workable" but they aren't ideal. They are definitely acting as a bottleneck.
Both speed a size are a priority. It just sucks that right now my budgets are squeezed. I know ideally what I'd like to have though.
So does anything that's accessible via the Internet. You can just block that in your router and not use it that way.QNAP gets pwnd all the time though https://www.qnap.com/en-us/security-advisories
Yep, that's the way to go for sure. And freenas the like can be set up the same way as they're basically the same thing except free. For basic nas duties almost any of the free variants out there are just as good as the commercial stuff.If you're addressing me personally, then it likely will never have access to the internet.
I'm not a sys-admin, so my options are limited. I DO NOT want to have anything I basically have to manage AT ALL. So, I have zero interest in using something like FreeNAS. And when it comes time to do it, it will be worth paying the premium (for me) for QNAP's hardware so that I don't have to manage things.
Synology tends to have too many features cut, features that matter to me for the money (things like not having 10GBe standard, no NVME slots, Thunderbolt, etc unless you buy certain expansions or tier levels. They tend to be a more 'budget' friendly and are looking to be 'enough' rather than fully featured). And they're basically the only other competitor that I know of in this segment.
Mid 30c is about right so it's not heat. The only other thing would be vibration then. Vibration during operation will also kill drives.The fans is at 100%, it's in a small biz environment so noise is not an issue and the synology fans aren't even the loudest thing in the rack. The hard drives sit in the mid 30C range.
Regardless of what you think of Backblaze, they have published the largest reliability data that is publicly available to consumers and Seagate is clearly, clearly the worst manufacturer and it's been consistent for several years.
QNAP is fine as long as you follow sensible security practices and don't rely on their (perpetually beta testing) apps for sketchy things like remote access. QNAP has a bad rap on account of them being the cheaper option vs Synology (most of time), hence QNAP ends up with most of the budget consumers who are knowledgeable enough to want a cheap, full-featured NAS but not savvy enough to block unused services, apply updates / security patches, etc, etc. Basically these are the folks at greatest risk of bad things happening and I think they are disproportionately running QNAPs. Besides that, QNAPs developers also have a bad record of releasing buggy or insecure apps for QTS and then marketing these new apps/features to the same less-knowledgeable consumers.QNAP gets pwnd all the time though https://www.qnap.com/en-us/security-advisories
QNAP is a good choice based on what you're describing, though you'll still pay for the privilege of 10GbE, NVMe, and Thunderbolt on one box, more if you want 8+ bays. I think the cheapest Intel QNAP with 6/8 bays, all of these features (including Thunderbolt) is something like $2000 or more.you're addressing me personally, then it likely will never have access to the internet.
I'm not a sys-admin, so my options are limited. I DO NOT want to have anything I basically have to manage AT ALL. So, I have zero interest in using something like FreeNAS. And when it comes time to do it, it will be worth paying the premium (for me) for QNAP's hardware so that I don't have to manage things.
Synology tends to have too many features cut, features that matter to me for the money (things like not having 10GBe standard, no NVME slots, Thunderbolt, etc unless you buy certain expansions or tier levels. They tend to be a more 'budget' friendly and are looking to be 'enough' rather than fully featured). And they're basically the only other competitor that I know of in this segment.
synology has tons of vulnerabilities too and their support sucks too lol, can't win with these companies. I've run into a bunch of synology devices with bitcoin miners running on them lol. Not sticking them on the internet is a great step 1 for sure. My boss likes them so we keep putting them in but I'm not a super huge fan.If you're addressing me personally, then it likely will never have access to the internet.
I'm not a sys-admin, so my options are limited. I DO NOT want to have anything I basically have to manage AT ALL. So, I have zero interest in using something like FreeNAS. And when it comes time to do it, it will be worth paying the premium (for me) for QNAP's hardware so that I don't have to manage things.
Synology tends to have too many features cut, features that matter to me for the money (things like not having 10GBe standard, no NVME slots, Thunderbolt, etc unless you buy certain expansions or tier levels. They tend to be a more 'budget' friendly and are looking to be 'enough' rather than fully featured). And they're basically the only other competitor that I know of in this segment.
They are ($2000) indeed. But again, I think it's worth it to bite that bullet even though I'm "overpaying" for the hardware, just to have access to their software. Also, for me it's "either/or" on Thunderbolt and 10GbE. I haven't decided which would be nicer to have. 10GBe would be better if my business grows to the point where multiple people are working on footage at once, whereas if I'm mostly a one man band, then the Thunderbolt will always be faster. Well that and noise. 10GbE is the better option to deal with noise for sure. Of course most of the units could have 10GbE added after the fact via a PCI-E card, making potentially Thunderbolt units more flexible, but they cost $2000-$3500.QNAP is a good choice based on what you're describing, though you'll still pay for the privilege of 10GbE, NVMe, and Thunderbolt on one box, more if you want 8+ bays. I think the cheapest Intel QNAP with 6/8 bays, all of these features (including Thunderbolt) is something like $2000 or more.
That could work. Sounds like a nice system. I am not at all opposed to buying used, I'm generally for it. Maybe I've been looking in the wrong places (mostly CL/eBay) but it seems like it's generally hard to get new-ish DAS/NAS units that should be relatively not-beaten on. Especially empty ones. As for me, I'd probably like to hop on a deal like this thread and just immediately load it with 16 or 18TB drives immediately.I recently picked up a TS-873A and I'm happy with the purchase so far. It's an 8 bay for around $1000. It has an embedded Ryzen and comes with 8gb DDR4, with empty memory slot, and 2x available M.2. The downside: "only" 2.5GbE native on the unit and low bandwidth on the (PCIe 3x1) on the M.2 slots built-in... BUT it does have two full size PCIe 3x4 slots for expansion cards. I've currently got a Quadro and an older intel X540-T2 10GbE card installed - both work great and they were plug-and-play, no bullshit involved. The Quadro really surprised me, after installing in the QNAP, it prompted me to install the drivers, I told it yes and it just worked.
Based on my casual searches, Synology seems worse in general.synology has tons of vulnerabilities too and their support sucks too lol, can't win with these companies. I've run into a bunch of synology devices with bitcoin miners running on them lol. Not sticking them on the internet is a great step 1 for sure. My boss likes them so we keep putting them in but I'm not a super huge fan.