Samsung 950PRO, when?

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
I haven't understood why on benchmarks this drive is five times faster than a sata drive and in normal usage like loading games, windows startup, ecc is just 2% faster.
Is there someone who can explain me it please.

What am I missing?
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
this is what THG says about upgrading from 850 PRO to 950 PRO.

Moving from an 850 Pro to the SM951-NVMe is a nice upgrade though, and you will notice snappier performance from the reduced latency.
 

chrcoluk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,219
THG are trying to claim users will notice a lower latency of a few hundreds of a second?

The drives are much faster in terms of raw performance, but the average joe bloggs isnt going to notice it if its just used as a standard OS drive over a 850 pro.
 

the_real_7

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
1,254
THG are trying to claim users will notice a lower latency of a few hundreds of a second?

The drives are much faster in terms of raw performance, but the average joe bloggs isnt going to notice it if its just used as a standard OS drive over a 850 pro.

From the few people I've talked to that have upgraded to m2 drives the snappiness on desktop is noticeable , or a really good placebo effect
 

ZeqOBpf6

Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
643
If it's latency that's the value of these drives, then THG themselves even reported that the 750s weren't nearly as slow to respond as the 950 pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-950-pro-ssd,4313-5.html

"Latency tests are arguably more important when you're looking for snappy responsiveness though, and Intel's SSD 750 takes this measurement by a comfortable margin. Samsung may have room to improve through firmware updates. Then again, the 2TB 850 Pro also has latency issues after heavy workloads, and that's a drive we'd expect to be mature. Samsung's 830 suffered similarly. The company changed some of its programming for the 840 family to eradicate that behavior, and we can only hope it'll do the same for its latest creation.

What you are seeing is garbage collection and wear-leveling utilizing the controller's resources. Some companies delay wear-leveling operations until the drive is idle. Others give priority to housekeeping activities. There are pros and cons to both approaches. Since the 950 Pro will invariably end up in enthusiast and workstation PCs, this is the method Samsung deemed best.

We expect Rapid Mode to make a big difference under normal workloads. The DRAM cache tiering feature is part of Samsung's Magician suite. Unfortunately, the newest version with support for the 950 Pro wasn't available when we wrote our review."


 

chrcoluk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,219
the quesiton is what were they doing to get 200 seconds latency?

doesnt seem like something joe bloggs would be doing.

what is recovery?
 

zzz

Gawd
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
797
I haven't understood why on benchmarks this drive is five times faster than a sata drive and in normal usage like loading games, windows startup, ecc is just 2% faster.
Is there someone who can explain me it please.
See Page 3 on this forum. SomeGuy attributed it to CPU performance. Also, consider techreport's 523MB image load test: it took ~8.5s on all drives, and the slowest ones tested are 500MB/s SATA drives that could transfer the image in ~1s, so the other 8 seconds must be processing time. So if you actually want top performance, you should probably get an i7-6700K and OC at least the 1-2 core usage cases (I did, to 4.5GHz).

trying to claim users will notice a lower latency of a few hundreds of a second?
Even less. NVMe latency is stated to be 2.8us versus SATA's 6us. Each 60Hz video frame is 5000 times slower.
 

SomeGuy133

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,447
If it's latency that's the value of these drives, then THG themselves even reported that the 750s weren't nearly as slow to respond as the 950 pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-950-pro-ssd,4313-5.html

"Latency tests are arguably more important when you're looking for snappy responsiveness though, and Intel's SSD 750 takes this measurement by a comfortable margin. Samsung may have room to improve through firmware updates. Then again, the 2TB 850 Pro also has latency issues after heavy workloads, and that's a drive we'd expect to be mature. Samsung's 830 suffered similarly. The company changed some of its programming for the 840 family to eradicate that behavior, and we can only hope it'll do the same for its latest creation.

What you are seeing is garbage collection and wear-leveling utilizing the controller's resources. Some companies delay wear-leveling operations until the drive is idle. Others give priority to housekeeping activities. There are pros and cons to both approaches. Since the 950 Pro will invariably end up in enthusiast and workstation PCs, this is the method Samsung deemed best.

We expect Rapid Mode to make a big difference under normal workloads. The DRAM cache tiering feature is part of Samsung's Magician suite. Unfortunately, the newest version with support for the 950 Pro wasn't available when we wrote our review."



Samsung is know for not having aggressive wear leveling and garbage collection to save battery life. The kingston Predator was super aggressive on garbage collection and was one of the reasons why the drive was really good even with its mixed performance in various levels. It was a meh m.2 but it was good for heavy users. Also if you looked at its idle power draw it was off the charts because of that garbage collection.. Don't know if these NVMe drives actually ahve good garbage collection or have the normal Sammy style to it. They did have fairly hig power usage so maybe they didn't coup out on it this time


Look at the performamce frop from 256GB from the 512GB (assuming you don't have crap case and let it throttle) Now consider that performance drop would get ecen worse on a 128GB drive. MX200 drives include a crap ton of SLC NAND to make up for the small size. Also M550 was an improvement over the m500 because they cut the die size in half IIRC so that they could improve the 256GB drive speeds. The 128GB m550 still sucked even with those improvements and the same would be the save for a 128GB NVMe drive.

@zzz indeed just open task manger and load some programs. you'll see most of them cap out a single thread and show like 13% CPU usage (for HT quad core). I really want to get my 4.8 Ghz 6700K. my 4.2 GHz 4770K sucks.
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
THG are trying to claim users will notice a lower latency of a few hundreds of a second?

The drives are much faster in terms of raw performance, but the average joe bloggs isnt going to notice it if its just used as a standard OS drive over a 850 pro.

From the few people I've talked to that have upgraded to m2 drives the snappiness on desktop is noticeable , or a really good placebo effect

yes, THG says that, I requote:

Moving from an 850 Pro to the SM951-NVMe is a nice upgrade though, and you will notice snappier performance from the reduced latency.
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
are you all from US here?
is there some european user here?

in america the release date is 3rd of november, is there a date for europe too?
 

chrcoluk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,219
ok so no one here knows how toms hardware managed to get 200 seconds latency, the 950 will feel faster because toms says so :p
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
ok so no one here knows how toms hardware managed to get 200 seconds latency, the 950 will feel faster because toms says so :p

There are other benchmark from other sites that shows better performance when comparing it to 850 pro in windows boot time, loading games and more "home scenarios".
 

sblantipodi

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
3,571
you bastards :D
in europe we don't know even when they will ship, amazon.co.uk says 23rd of December
 

mikeblas

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - May 2006
Joined
Jun 26, 2004
Messages
12,775
the quesiton is what were they doing to get 200 seconds latency?

doesnt seem like something joe bloggs would be doing.

what is recovery?
Click on "To learn how we test advanced workload performance, please click here." in the Toms' article. It leads to a post where they attempt to explain the test. It is indeed a synthetic test. But it's not clear to me what the test really does, or how they perform the measurements they post. I'm fine with synthetic tests, but only when some correlation between the synthetic test and real-world conditions can be readily established. Here, they're writing blocks to random offsets (they say). But they don't describe that randomness; are they blocks aligned in any way? The writing is terrible (as is par for hardware review sites); they seem to imply they're using Futuremarks' "Storage Consistency Test", but that's about all we get.
 

chrcoluk

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,219
yeah amazon seem prone to overselling stock and delaying orders. Has happened to me a few times (when I preorder games).
 

Phuncz

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
2,630
I just ordered mine in The Netherlands (Europe), supposed to be shipping this week. EDIT: changed to next week :(
 
Last edited:

SomeGuy133

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,447

Old_Way

Gawd
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
665
Newegg is running a promotion on the 512GB drive now... It comes with free Assassin's Creed: Syndicate game code and a $30 gift card with purchase.

The 256GB drive comes with a $20 Newegg gift card.

See post above for link to Newegg.
 
Last edited:

SomeGuy133

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,447
i noly see the syndicate not the +30

nm its a bit lower down in a box. They dont show it in title.

Doing it for the 30 bucks not syndicate...that game is worth nothing to me because of bullshit DRM.
 

Apathy

Gawd
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
886
I orderd mine from newegg on the 28th of October. It didn't have the free game or the gift card. I am contacting NewEgg now to find out if I can get it added to my order.

Estimated delivery date is 11/5. Every other part of my computer will be arriving today so I can put everything together and wait for this thing to arrive.

I ordered the Asus z170 Deluxe which comes with M2 support out of the box but I have been reading that people are installing this 950 drive using the PCI-E slot due to performance increases over the M2 slot.

Does anyone have any idea which port they'll be utilizing for the install? I'm going to go do some research now, but if anyone has any tips, I'd love to hear them.
 
Last edited:

SomeGuy133

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,447
I orderd mine from newegg on the 28th of October. It didn't have the free game or the gift card. I am contacting NewEgg now to find out if I can get it added to my order.

Estimated delivery date is 11/5. Every other part of my computer will be arriving today so I can put everything together and wait for this thing to arrive.

I ordered the Asus z170 Deluxe which comes with M2 support out of the box but I have been reading that people are installing this 950 drive using the PCI-E slot due to performance increases over the M2 slot.

Does anyone have any idea which port they'll be utilizing for the install? I'm going to go do some research now, but if anyone has any tips, I'd love to hear them.

I'll be using M.2 on my ASRock board. Your M.2 might not be ultra M.2 or whatever. It might bee 10 Gbps and not 32 Gbps or whatever. I forget the numbers but not all M.2 are fullspeed.
 

Apathy

Gawd
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
886
I just did a bunch of research. The z170 Deluxe has the 32Gb/s M.2 x 4 Support with NVME U.2 device support. I still don't know if that's as fast as using the pci-e adapter. It wasn't clear to me in the research I've done so far.

I did however just get off the live chat line with newegg and they were very friendly and helpful and they were able to add the promotion on the drive for the $30 gift card and the free copy of Assassains Creed Syndicate.

Love newegg. They never let me down. Now all I have to do is wait until Thursday and see what kinds of trouble comes up when I try to install windows 7 on this drive. It seems ike the issue has been resolved by some dude over at toms, but it certainly won't be as cut and dry as installing windows 10.
 

SomeGuy133

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
3,447
I just did a bunch of research. The z170 Deluxe has the 32Gb/s M.2 x 4 Support with NVME U.2 device support. I still don't know if that's as fast as using the pci-e adapter. It wasn't clear to me in the research I've done so far.

I did however just get off the live chat line with newegg and they were very friendly and helpful and they were able to add the promotion on the drive for the $30 gift card and the free copy of Assassains Creed Syndicate.

Love newegg. They never let me down. Now all I have to do is wait until Thursday and see what kinds of trouble comes up when I try to install windows 7 on this drive. It seems ike the issue has been resolved by some dude over at toms, but it certainly won't be as cut and dry as installing windows 10.

nice thats good to know! I am surprised they did that but they were smart because it would be bad for business if they didn't honor that.

32Gbps should be way more then enough but maybe that is going through the PCH? Is the M.2 going through PCH for z97 or z170? If it is then that might be the issue.
 

ZippZopp

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
378
I just did a bunch of research. The z170 Deluxe has the 32Gb/s M.2 x 4 Support with NVME U.2 device support. I still don't know if that's as fast as using the pci-e adapter. It wasn't clear to me in the research I've done so far.

i'm about to pull the trigger on the same setup, asus z170 deluxe, 6700k and a samsung 950 pro. i'll be following any info you post in here because I'm interested and if i come up with anything I'll report here. there isn't a whole lot of info out yet because the hardware is so new.

i've also thought about either supplementing the 950 m.2 with another one in the pci-e adapter or throwing an intel 750 in. still trying to figure out which would be better

will the 950 in the m.2 slot boot as fast as an SSD w/ sata? i read a lot saying the intel 750 boots really slow. Not sure if it is an intel thing or an nvme thing
 

Trimlock

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Messages
15,225
Keep in mind, on a fresh install the motherboard is going to determine the majority of the boot time. A majority of the reviews test this without having anything on the boot up other than Windows.

From personal experience a m.2 will boot up much quicker than a SATA SSD with a mature installation of Windows but only by a few seconds. With the SATA SSD after windows has loaded the desktop I still need to wait a bit before I can start navigating, with the M.2 I can click immediately.
 

ZippZopp

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
378
Keep in mind, on a fresh install the motherboard is going to determine the majority of the boot time. A majority of the reviews test this without having anything on the boot up other than Windows.

From personal experience a m.2 will boot up much quicker than a SATA SSD with a mature installation of Windows but only by a few seconds. With the SATA SSD after windows has loaded the desktop I still need to wait a bit before I can start navigating, with the M.2 I can click immediately.

thanks for the insight, i think i'll do the 512 samsung 950, and either get a second one to put in the second m.2 slot or go for the intel 750
 

bmg

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 15, 2000
Messages
879
I did however just get off the live chat line with newegg and they were very friendly and helpful and they were able to add the promotion on the drive for the $30 gift card and the free copy of Assassains Creed Syndicate.
I just finished chat with Newegg. The person was very nice and offered to send me the game code, but said they couldn't do the $30 promo gift card, which is what I actually care about. I might just refuse shipment on the 5th, and reorder now to get the $30 promo card. It's a bit of a pita, but worth it for $30 credit for the next order.
 

WarLust

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
329
My 512GB is on the way - due Thurs. Glad I didn't pull the trigger when I posted the "in stock" post. $30 promo card (going to be used for the next 950 Pro for RAID down the road) and a AC game weren't available when I posted. For those worried, it should ship with Windows 7 drivers, or you could download them from the site:


http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/global/html/support/downloads.html
There also appears to be a new version of Magician 4.8.

Also, FS: Assassin's Creed Syndicate Game Code $35 :D
 
Last edited:
Top