sabregen sold me a misrepresented 8800GTS damaged in shipping. Wont refund money.

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eclypse

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Original Deal thread Titled "Got soldering skills? 8800GTS 320MB SC damaged w/all parts and TMG ND5 Cheap

Seller edited the item sold and removed the deal post so the only thing to see is the replies after the first post.

He stated that the card can be fixed by the right person with good enough soldering skills. Stated and marked the damaged areas that needed repairs. Basicly put all the Caps,1 inductor (1R0 chip), speaker and one tiny c33 resistor.

Heres the important highlights:

sabregen wote in the sale thread:

actually, I never got to the PCB work, at all. All I did was tin the leads, and I knew I was in too deep, just looking at the caps. The component in question is just below the compositing chip, and never got touched by a soldering iron. part of the plastic cover got chunked on the side that is more towards the foreground of the picture. My guess is that was done by the section of the stock cooler that extrudes to meet the surface of the compositing chip, but that's just a guess.

The card never saw the torture of my soldering iron, nor did the caps or any other component of the card, only the tinned leads. I know when to call it quits, before I make it worse with things like this. Anyone else, anything else, feel free to ask!

Here's all the soldering that I am capable of doing, apparently:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture038.jpg

More shots of the component in question:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture047.jpg - Look at C33 (right side), I have this part, as well.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture048.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture049.jpg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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A few members ask why didnt you take this up with the shipper as insurrance would of paid for the damage.. No answer.

Another member asked about the 1R0 chip.. said that it looked like the PCB was cracked under that chip. No answer from the seller again.

I then ask:

http://home.comcast.net/~eclypse/Picture031.jpg


I'd like to see under the thermal pads on all the chips that are circled please.

Also what are the numbers on the broken caps.

Yes that tear in the PCB from the 1R0 chip could make it impossable to fix.

I like a challenge.. Helps push my soldering skills forward. If i can fix it i'll give it to my Godson.

If all those marked chips are in good untouched shape i have a few pare parts from a 7900 like a 1R0 and the female power plug (If that needs to be replaced) that i could use to get it working.. If its possable to with the broken trace from that tear under the broken 1R0 chip.

I'll give ya $75 shipped USPS Priority mail (MI 48044) for it if all checks out.
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sabregen's reply:

recheck price above. See additional pics below.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture001-6.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture002-6.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture003-5.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture004-4.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture005-2.jpg
Click to expand...

After that i asume that those chips are all fine and i can fix the caps ext and i'll buy the card, unknowing of the damage on one of the chips that i asked about that puts the card in the "Unfixable" catagory.. Not fixable is you have the skills.

Also nowhere was there anything mentioned that there may be more damage that i dont know about or unwilling to mention.
 
Today i respond in my thread titled Help with identifing Caps from a 8800GTS Video card about finally receiving the card and the damage that i was not told about when i asked.

The chip i asked about and was most conserned about before deciding on buying it:

http://home.comcast.net/~eclypse/DSC07106.JPG

You can clearly see the 4 gouges underneith the Nvidia label on the chip.

You can see it easy with the nakid eye and in my pictures when you have normal lighting. You could not see the damage in his pictures he posted when i asked about it.


Heres the PM's back and forth when i confronted him about a refund.

Seller (sabregen) Wrote this back to me asking for a full refund:

I just looked at your thread about fixing the card. I can honestly say that I did not see the chips on the component in question before shipping to you. I took the pictures as you asked me to, yet in your thread your purport that I ignored your request to verify that the chips were good or not. I supplied pictures of the areas that you asked for. If they were not satisfactory to you at the time, I would have expected that you would have asked for another picture. The card was sold as is, and was explained in full to have been damaged in shipping. I sent it with all of the the parts that I had in my posession, which is also all of the parts that came off of the card when it was initially shipped.

In looking at your pictures, all I can say is that I have seen chips in this condition, and worse (CPUs) that functioned just fine. Optimal, no. But the condition of (for lack of a better term) "damaged in shipping" was disclosed in full. I do not want this to get into a slander match. Perhaps we should lay it all out on the table, and let the mods decide what to do. I feel like I did everything asked, and kept my promise to ship on time, and well packaged to you. I do not feel like I misled you or misrepresented what I was in posession of, or what I was selling.

I am fine with a full disclosure thread on what happened. I still have all of the PMs that were exchanged. I don't think anyone is in the wrong here, just to be clear. LMK

Josh
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My reply:

Its hard for me to tell in the pictures that you uploaded per my question. I was going off your good faith to describe the damage if any to the chips i asked.. hence since you showed the pics and did not mention any damage i took that as there fine.. Also thought that they were prob ok as you had thermo pads on there but were reattached with thermo goop in between witch looked strange but thought thats what you did after examining the card.

You mentioned all the damaged chips and had many pictures.. With the damaged that was said to be there it would of been fixable. If you would of mentioned that one chip had damage when i asked i would of passed as would anyone else that seen that damage.

You took detailed pictures of the damage where you circled where the damage was. You never mentioned that, that chip was damaged.. you even had pictures with that chip and the memory chips covered with thermo pads. hiding the damage to that NB chip.

Also stated that the card could be fixable with the right soldering skills.. its not.
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Reply from (sabregen)

Picture 003-5.jpg clearly shows the area in question, in the condition it was sent, and the condition in which I expect you received it. Regardless of whether of not I think it can be fixed with soldering skills, has no bearing on something that is sold as is. Picture 001-6.jpg also shows the area in question, and in better light.

I would also go off of good faith, were I in your shoes. Hoever, a good faith estimate regarding the condition, which is what I gave you, only holds me liable for representing a sale item to be in the condition that the buyer is willing to agree to pay for. In this case, that was "as is, damaged in shipping." I feel bad, and if I had seen the area in question, would sure to have mentioned it. I have made shipping and other mistakes in my trading past, but have always strived to resolve it to the buyers satisfaction. I would like for this situation to be no different, however, I feel that I gave a full disclosure on my knowledge of the items, and decribed in full what I knew the damage to be.

Josh

PS - I appreciate you being civil. Some people on here get really out of hand, really quickly. I would like very much to continue in a professional and (firm but...) courteous manner.
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My response:

Sorry but i fail to see anything in your sale thread stating that all sales are final or anything close. Did not remember reading that either before you edited your sale thread when you sold this card.

No pictures were clear in fact the card is very dirty and has thermo paste here and there and even on the said chip.. Flash glare as well. Hard to tell without a close up. So with the naked eye you can see it and you should of stated that its chipped when i asked.

Refund.. or i can file with paypal and let them decide or just do a charge back.
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Original Sale thread


Post from (sabregen)

I understand that you are upset. I do not agree with your tone, or the slander that you are looking to be headed towards. I think that anything that is sold as is, is implied to have no warranty, nor do I make any claims to the repairability of it. As a matter of fact, I started in on trying to fix it myself, before posting it up for sale. You did not get taken. I am at a loss. Check my heat, all posistive. As I said before, I've made mistakes, but I've always made them right. I don't feel as though I've made a mistake here. I will ask the opinion of everyone reading this, and I am inviting the mods, as well.

Josh
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My reply:


No where was it stated that no refunds giving or all sales final in your sale thread.

You sold this card as easily fixable if you have the skills and right tools and your original price was $150.. Marked all the damage on the card that needed to be fixed. The chipped chip was not marked nor is this card fixable. What was stated in the sale is wrong. THe card is not fixable.

$83.39 is what i paid for it.
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Post from (sabregen)
The card was originally purchased, and used by me for about a month. It was then sold to someone here on the forums, but he lives in India. His name is kniwor on here. When I originally shipped the card, I had already replaced the stock cooler with the TMG ND5 kit. The thermal pads in the original pics posted in the FS/FT thread, and in the pics sent to eclypse were from that kit. The VRMs at the rear of the board had the aluminum sinks from the TMG ND5 kit on them as well. However, when I went to ship the card to India, the TMG ND5 is too large to fit into the eVGA box, so I removed it, and put the stock cooler back on, but I did not secure it, as I did not want to crush the aluminum sinks on the VRMs. As it so happened, I didn't think when I was packing it, as failure to secure the original heatsink caused it to move around in shipping, causing the damage to the card that rendered it inoperable.

The original buyer had requested that the package not be insured so that he could pick it up from customs without paying whatever fines would be associated with (at the time) a $260.00USD purchase that was insured, and sitting in customs. He specifically requested no insurance, but since the failure to secure the original heatsink was my fault (I felt), I told him to ship it back to me, and I would refund him, which I did (including 1/2 the shipping costs). He will confirm this is all true.

Upon receiving the card back, I attempted, as previously stated, to repair the card myself, but knew that I was in over my head. This is when I decided that it was just simply beyond my abilities, and put it up for sale, as is.

I also contact RuassianHAXOR regarding this very card about 3 weeks ago, and told him what had happened, and he confirmed that per eVGA warranty rules, no physical damage to the card is covered, and it would not be eligible for repair or replacement under RMA. This was a bummer, because I had also purchased the overnight advanced replacement plan. I contacted eVGA, and they refunded me (in eVGA bucks) the purchase price for this repair plan.

I have PM'd Malcom_Staudiger about this thread. I hope he shows up soon.

eclypse: I am disappointed that you have taken this route (public) instead of trying to resolve it through PM. As such, all of my resources will be tapped. If I am wrong, I will do what is right. However, I disagree with your actions in pursuit of a resolution.
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My response:

I have not done anything wrong. Slander and my tone comments is nonsense.

I'm off to the Circus with my wife and 2 and a half year old.. When i get back i'll be filling with paypal.

Your in the wrong. You didint state all the damage even when i asked you about this chip you didnt tell me. Because of that fact you should refund me.

Why bother trying to sort this out in PM's when i knew all along what possition you would take.

If your a good guy you would refund me like you did with the other guy that didnt buy shipping insurrance.. you didnt have to refund him and supposivily you did. I should contact him and see how it went.

If you tried selling this card in this condition for $150 then you thought in your mind it was fixable.
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Last post in my old thread:


Dr.Evil said:
Please keep the rest of the talks about refunds to PMs as this thread is about repair the card. If anything at you can start a thread in TTT but it was stated as is and he provided you pictures of the damage.
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Straight from sabregen's sale thread

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT: SALE IS BACK ON!

1.) I am selling things a la carte here. First come, first serve.
2.) If you PM me, you'd better have left a YGPM (or other) bump before PM'ing
3.) If you make an offer, and it is accepted by me, and responded to with my Paypal account address, you must pay immediately. Your items are NOT on hold, and they will be sold to the first person with the $.
4.) An agreement or offer acceptance on my part is not binding until you pay for the items. If someone else comes through with money for "your stuff" before you do, You'll be refunded your amount in full. NO BITCHING
5.) Failure to pay nullifies ANY previous agreement we may have had.

ALSO AVAILABLE & OPEN TO OFFERS! (for multiple items):
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I dont see anything stating "As is" or "All sales final" Yes he posted pics of the damage and i bought it knowing i could fix that noted damage. Were the "Unfixable damage" is was never stated! I even asked if that specific chip was damaged and he shows me pictures of the chip (basicly stating that its fine)

I stated that if theres damage on any of the chips i asked then i dont want it cause its unfixable. I should of been honest and said that theres damage on that one chip but he didnt cause he wanted to sell it.

The 8800GTS was misreprested in the sale thread.

Its differenet if i didnt ask about those chips and i looked it over and noticed after the fact. Still the fact of no refund policy stated should be enough to get a refund.

I'll be filing with Paypal in the morning. I'm sure the first thing they'll be looking for is a return policy to which there was none stated.
 
i think i made more money than you spent on it in the amount of time it took me to read all of that ....and i am willing to bet you would have too.....you bought a card that had multiple damaged PCB components and cannot fix it now.....i think you knew full well the risk you were taking and hence feel this is a dead end
 
How strange?? Those links to his pics from his original sale thread worked the whole time and even right after i posted this thread a few mins ago.. Its a shame that i saved all the pics from his sale thread and i even saved the whole thread just encase this would happen.

I'll upload them and post them below.. Give me a few mins.
 
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture001-6.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture003-5.jpg

Isn't the core damage you're complaining about as clearly visible in those pictures as your own?
Sabegren did say that the stock cooler came off and knocked around.

eclypse said:
Also nowhere was there anything mentioned that there may be more damage that i dont know about or unwilling to mention.
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Isn't that to be assumed when you have an item that is damaged in shipping to the point of having components knocked off? You haven't repaired the card yet, so you don't even know whether the core damage is fatal or not.

eclypse said:
Yes that tear in the PCB from the 1R0 chip could make it impossable to fix.

I like a challenge.. Helps push my soldering skills forward. If i can fix it i'll give it to my Godson.
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So you knew up front that there was a possibility that you wouldn't be able to fix it, and you went ahead and bought it anyway.

Buying damaged items for repair has risk. Sabegren was much more upfront than most when selling dead/damaged items. He gave you lots of pics and told you what he thought needed to be fixed. What more do you want from the guy?
 
eclypse said:
How strange?? Those links to his pics from his original sale thread worked the whole time and even right after i posted this thread a few mins ago.. Its a shame that i saved all the pics from his sale thread and i even saved the whole thread just encase this would happen.

I'll upload them and post them below.. Give me a few mins.
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No need, just fix the links themselves. You can't copy and paste them like that, as the middle gets truncated
 
eclypse said:
How strange?? Those links to his pics from his original sale thread worked the whole time and even right after i posted this thread a few mins ago.. Its a shame that i saved all the pics from his sale thread and i even saved the whole thread just encase this would happen.

I'll upload them and post them below.. Give me a few mins.
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The original links are probably fine. But since you copied and pasted straight from the PMs / posts then you actually just copied the parced links that Vbull places "..." in to show that it shortened the displayed links. You'll have to go back and replace each link with a "..." in it with the actual link that's referenced.


EDIT: Since Malcolm's post has pics from Sabregen and clearly shows the damaged chip in question, I'm gonna have to side with Sabregen. Buyer's remorse is all this is.
 
Original post links now fixed..

ryan_975

Yes picture 1-6 is a bright clear pic.. AND i can now see the damage in the pic Now that i know what i'm looking at after seeing the chip with my own eyes up close. Though you dont find it a bit odd that out of 5 pictures only 1 is taken in light or with flash? Ofcourse the pic thats from far away were you cant tell detail. All the close up pics are dark and without backlight nor flash so you cant tell what your looking at.. To me now looking at it again it looks like thermo goop as theres thermo compound all around the card on many chips.

I was limited to the sellers response which he have no straight answer.. though with the pics posted of what i asked and no mention of damage i took that as yes heres the chip pics and no theres no damage it all is fine. Cause if there was damage on the chips you asked for i would of mentioned it and pointed it out.

I did not buy a card i thought i might not beable to fix.. For $83.39 i paid for it says right there i thought i could handle the job with the stated damage.

With the damage on that nvidia chip the card is trash.. The whole card might as well be snapped in half cause theres no difference as either way its not fixable as stated..
 
eclypse said:
Original post links now fixed..

ryan_975

Yes picture 1-6 is a bright clear pic.. AND i can now see the damage in the pic Now that i know what i'm looking at after seeing the chip with my own eyes up close. Though you dont find it a bit odd that out of 5 pictures only 1 is taken in light or with flash? Ofcourse the pic thats from far away were you cant tell detail. All the close up pics are dark and without backlight nor flash so you cant tell what your looking at.. To me now looking at it again it looks like thermo goop as theres thermo compound all around the card on many chips.

I was limited to the sellers response which he have no straight answer.. though with the pics posted of what i asked and no mention of damage i took that as yes heres the chip pics and no theres no damage it all is fine. Cause if there was damage on the chips you asked for i would of mentioned it and pointed it out.

I did not buy a card i thought i might not beable to fix.. For $83.39 i paid for it says right there i thought i could handle the job with the stated damage.

With the damage on that nvidia chip the card is trash.. The whole card might as well be snapped in half cause theres no difference as either way its not fixable as stated..
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Lesson #3,323,565,434 Do not assume an answer if one has not been directly and clearly given. When he didn't give a direct answer, then you should have asked again or dropped the deal. You're assumption is what screwed you over. Now you won't know if he just didn't notice the damage, or was trying to scam.

And you were not limited by his answer. You could have very easily asked again. Instead you assumed his answer when in fact he gave none.
 
The part that has my mind puzzled is the fact that in the original sell thread the pics were taken of the card with the thermo goop under the thermo pads.. I ask for pics without the pads and if there was any damage on those marked chips i asked for. The pics he uploads then are with the pads removed and thermo goop cleaned off.

Now if you cleaned that Nvidia core of all the goop then how is it that the broken particals are left behind from the core being crushed? Would common sense tell you that when you cleaned the goop off clearly the broken debry from the core should of also been cleared up? Also you would of easliy felt the cracked edge of the core when you cleaned it.. WIth paper towel you would of felt it with your finger.. using a cue tip you would of noticed it cause cue tip particles would of snagged on to it and most likely stuck on there and you would of had to pull the fibers off the core.
 
I looked over his FS thread a few days ago and thought he was pretty clear about the damage and that it was an "as is", no warrenty.

You gambled and lost, now you bitch about it? I didn't buy the card becuase it wasn't worth the risk, you choose to risk it. Unless you prove gross and deliberate misrepresentation, (you haven't as of this post) you need to STFU, dry your tears, and move on, and lesson learned that damaged goods sold openly as damaged may never work, no matter what you do or what skills you got. You have no right to blame him for that.

Besides, it sounds like you haven't even tried the repair, you just seen a chip and assumed it's trashed, w/o following through with a repair effort.:rolleyes:
 
Yeah gave no answer cause he wanted to sell the card for the money i offered.. So show him the pics and say nothing which is as good as saying there good. Looks dishonest to me and should to everyone else..

Also he was asked about the tear or crack in the PCB to which he did not reply to.. Also asked why was'nt the shipper contacted about getting shipping damage reinbursement.. and again no reply. All looked shaddy after i bought it.

But in the end the same facts are still there:

1. no refund policy stated in the deal thread
2. item titled and sold as a fixable card with the right set of tools and skills. Its clearly not!
3. Areas of damage was clearly marked in the deal thread. Theres more damage that was not pointed out. Clearly more then a easy cap replace fix.
4. Asked if there was any damage on the chips i marked in the picture. He insinuated that there fine with the pics he posted.. as i stated if there was any damage to said chips i'm not interested. He could of said there was and choosed not to.

Those reasons above is why i'm filing a "item misrepresented" claim with paypal to get my money back. I did not receive the item in the condition stated.

Also why is it that the seller refunds someone else for the card that was damaged in shipping.. Full refund cause of his mistake "According to the seller" but refuses to refund me as he clearly made a mistake in the sale of this card to me???
 
So from what I gather, after spending a bunch of time and reading through this whole thread, if he would have typed "As-Is" on his original FS/FT you would be just fine and not have any issue with what happened?

Also, I dont think you get how simplistic paypal disputes are...they do not go into CSI mode and look for wording in FS posts and hunt down forum members, most of the time they just screw over one person in the transaction (usually the seller :rolleyes: ) and then that is that.

Finally you should get all your questions out in the open and answered BEFORE any money changes hands. I have made this mistake myself (frankly just a few weeks ago), and it does suck, but you live and you learn.

This is honestly why I hate selling things online because no 3rd party knows the truth and if one party is unhappy it is easy to blame the other for no wrong doing (not necessarily saying that is what happened here...just saying in general).
 
eclypse said:
Yeah gave no answer cause he wanted to sell the card for the money i offered.. So show him the pics and say nothing which is as good as saying there good. Looks dishonest to me and should to everyone else..

Also he was asked about the tear or crack in the PCB to which he did not reply to.. Also asked why was'nt the shipper contacted about getting shipping damage reinbursement.. and again no reply. All looked shaddy after i bought it.

But in the end the same facts are still there:

1. no refund policy stated in the deal thread
2. item titled and sold as a fixable card with the right set of tools and skills. Its clearly not!
3. Areas of damage was clearly marked in the deal thread. Theres more damage that was not pointed out. Clearly more then a easy cap replace fix.
4. Asked if there was any damage on the chips i marked in the picture. He insinuated that there fine with the pics he posted.. as i stated if there was any damage to said chips i'm not interested. He could of said there was and choosed not to.

Those reasons above is why i'm filing a "item misrepresented" claim with paypal to get my money back. I did not receive the item in the condition stated.

Also why is it that the seller refunds someone else for the card that was damaged in shipping.. Full refund cause of his mistake "According to the seller" but refuses to refund me as he clearly made a mistake in the sale of this card to me???
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Because the first time was his mistake. He didn't make sure the heatsink was fastened and fully working card was damaged because of that. The second time if your fault because you didn't make it absolutely clear on the "condition" of the card. All paypal is going to care about is whether or not he stated that the card was damaged. You have a high risk of losing the claim. I even believe that Paypal's TOS specifically mention not covering items bought knowingly damaged. I may be wrong on that though.
 
topcat989 said:
I looked over his FS thread a few days ago and thought he was pretty clear about the damage and that it was an "as is", no warrenty.

You gambled and lost, now you bitch about it? I didn't buy the card becuase it wasn't worth the risk, you choose to risk it. Unless you prove gross and deliberate misrepresentation, (you haven't as of this post) you need to STFU, dry your tears, and move on, and lesson learned that damaged goods sold openly as damaged may never work, no matter what you do or what skills you got. You have no right to blame him for that.

Besides, it sounds like you haven't even tried the repair, you just seen a chip and assumed it's trashed, w/o following through with a repair effort.:rolleyes:
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Why in the hell would i spend another 100+ on a hotair gun and tips and another $20+ on caps when i know that this card will never power on cause of the massivly chipped core on the small Nvidia chip? heheh you gona be kidding me! Where have you been the past few years with the old AMD Athlons chips with bare cores that were destroid when you chipped the core?? Even AMD put pads on there CPUs nothing that if you damaged that chip it would be done.

I have a 7900GTX card that was 2 days old and i chipped that same chip ever so slightly putting on a 3rd party heatsink and the card is ruined. Theres 4 freakin divets in that core!

Surrly he seen that and could of said theres chips in that core when i asked.
 
eclypse said:
Why in the hell would i spend another 100+ on a hotair gun and tips and another $20+ on caps when i know that this card will never power on cause of the massivly chipped core on the small Nvidia chip? heheh you gona be kidding me! Where have you been the past few years with the old AMD Athlons chips with bare cores that were destroid when you chipped the core?? Even AMD put pads on there CPUs nothing that if you damaged that chip it would be done.

I have a 7900GTX card that was 2 days old and i chipped that same chip ever so slightly putting on a 3rd party heatsink and the card is ruined. Theres 4 freakin divets in that core!

Surrly he seen that and could of said theres chips in that core when i asked.
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Where were you when among those thousands of damaged AXP cores many of them still worked perfectly fine. It depends on what exactly got damaged. That chip that's damaged is a compositing engine. It's the the GPU itself. Whether or not it's critical to the operation of the card, I don't know. But you won't know until you fix the caps and fire it up.
 
I've talked to someone from paypal in the past on the phone when i had a prob with another seller and i was told that the first thing they look for is if there was a stated return poilcy. There isint.. And if for some reason paypal does nothing then i'll have a tad less then 90 days to do a charge back.. Either way its coming back.
 
ryan_975 said:
Where were you when among those thousands of damaged AXP cores many of them still worked perfectly fine. It depends on what exactly got damaged. That chip that's damaged is a compositing engine. It's the the GPU itself. Whether or not it's critical to the operation of the card, I don't know. But you won't know until you fix the caps and fire it up.
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Well maybe.. but if i could take a pic of the right angle you would see that those chips are way too deep. Theres no freakin way.

I think the seller bought a 3rd party heatsink and cracked it himself.. Then just sold it off to someone.. The guy shipped this card in the retail package to someone in India! No other box was used.. What do you think would happen to a package shipped overseas with no padding and took over a month to get there???

He shipped it to me in the same retail box that still has the guys address on the outside of the graphics card retail box. Though he shipped it to me double boxed and no heatsink installed.
 
eclypse said:
I've talked to someone from paypal in the past on the phone when i had a prob with another seller and i was told that the first thing they look for is if there was a stated return poilcy. There isint.. And if for some reason paypal does nothing then i'll have a tad less then 90 days to do a charge back.. Either way its coming back.
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Welcome to my DNT list. You buy a damaged part, don't get all your questions answered, not have the tools you need on hand to make the repairs, assume that the part is completely broken and not attempt a repair, and then blame the seller and demaned to get your money bacK?

Another piece of advice for you sir, if you're going to get into the habit of buying damaged cards and trying to fix them, then I suggest you should already have the required supplies on hand before you start buying broken cards.
 
eclypse said:
Well maybe.. but if i could take a pic of the right angle you would see that those chips are way too deep. Theres no freakin way.

I think the seller bought a 3rd party heatsink and cracked it himself.. Then just sold it off to someone.. The guy shipped this card in the retail package to someone in India! No other box was used.. What do you think would happen to a package shipped overseas with no padding and took over a month to get there???

He shipped it to me in the same retail box that still has the guys address on the outside of the graphics card retail box. Though he shipped it to me double boxed and no heatsink installed.
Click to expand...

There you go making assumption again. You don't know that nor do you have any evidence of what you are alleging. Do what you want, I'm through with this lunacy.
 
eclypse said:
I've talked to someone from paypal in the past on the phone when i had a prob with another seller and i was told that the first thing they look for is if there was a stated return poilcy. There isint.. And if for some reason paypal does nothing then i'll have a tad less then 90 days to do a charge back.. Either way its coming back.
Click to expand...

On an eBay transaction or any transaction? Paypals depth of investigation varies greatly depending on if the transaction is through eBay or not....
 
So your saying that even though i knew i could fix the card in the stated condition in the sale post, i have no buisness doing so cause i dont currently have the correct tools for the job. I was planing on doing it with my current solder station but was warrened from others that i need a hotair gun to do the job right. I was going to buy the right tools and was looking around comparing pricess on ebay for the past few days. I just got the card and noticed the unfixable damage that was not stated.. but according to you i should spend X amount of cash and attempt it anyways and waste more money on a card that F'ed.

Makes sense.. Cause i'm the idiot and he cant post a accurate description of the damage nor the fact that he should be selling it for $10 as in "Spare parts" he's right and i'm wrong $83.39 wrong.

Where do i sign up!?!?! Let me grab my 7900GTX in like new (1 hour of use) but is damaged (You cant see it, same little Nvidia chip) and make some money.. cause its all good and i'ts not my fault that someone didnt ask all the right questions.
 
Grentz said:
On an eBay transaction or any transaction? Paypals depth of investigation varies greatly depending on if the transaction is through eBay or not....
Click to expand...

Sorry cant remember exactly which douchebag i was calling in about as it was over a year ago. I've had many transactions on neogeo.com forums buying and selling thousands of dollars worth of stuff in the past and i've had a perfect record.. Though you do run in to a scammer every now and then there with such high price games. So it was probably there.
 
From the looks of that thread, I knew the card wasn't going to work. I believe sabregen was less than honest to advertise it the way he did, but that doesn't change the fact that the buyer knew in advance that the card might not work.

Both the buyer and sabregen should have known it wasn't going to work. Seller was less than honest with the description (omitting obvious clues about the card) and buyer was less than patient with his buying decision. I mean, come on sebregen, you knew it wouldn't work. So did you eclypse!

I'm the type of seller that would never sell something in that condition and advertise it the way sebregen did, but I'm also not the type of buyer to buy something like that, especially that expensive and hope to make it work, then bitch when it doesn't.

I know many feel like the buyer bought the item as-is, which appears to be the case. But in this specific situation, I can't help but feel that the buyer really got shafted. Horrible selling practices and horrible buying practices.

Live and learn guys.
 
That core looks pretty fucked up, I sure wish you the best of luck bro, the sale was final and sold as is, it's unfortunate that you might not be able to fix it, but thats how the ball rolls. I'd sell it at a loss on ebay and be very descriptive of the faults on this card. Best of luck!


I've also seen several cpu cores with little spots on the edges, some work, some don't, i've had one from AMD a couple years ago, a 1600+ tbred I believe, which a chipped core, small little chip, processor didn't work, the chips on that gpu look far worse than the chip on my previous 1600+ cpu..
 
You bought a damaged card that turned out to be too damaged for your liking grow up and eat the loss.

Even if he wasnt 100% up front about every knick and scratch you had ample opportunity to find out everything you needed to know about the condition of the card before you paid. Just because you didnt ask the right questions dont make it OK to cry foul now.

It really dont matter who asked what in his thread what matters is what you asked. If the question that went unreplied in his thread was of such a concern to you why did you still follow through with the deal without some verification?

For someone that has been buying and selling thousands of dollars worth of stuff in forums you should definitely know better than that.

You failed to get the info you needed prior to buying the card you have nobody to blame but yourself IMO.

Worst of all abusing paypals disputes because you screwed yourself over and are not happy about it is crap. People like you are why i refuse to use paypal.
 
You can see the damage on the chip in the seller's pictures. The lighting was not good and I would not have noticed it except I was looking specifically for it. If the seller said that this was fixable with some resoldering work then I think the buyer deserves a refund. Unless you have GODLIKE skills in soldering and some very fancy equipment there is no way to drop in a new chip. However if no such thing was said the seller sold as is you are out of luck.
 
pfunkman said:
You bought a damaged card that turned out to be too damaged for your liking grow up and eat the loss.

Even if he wasnt 100% up front about every knick and scratch you had ample opportunity to find out everything you needed to know about the condition of the card before you paid. Just because you didnt ask the right questions dont make it OK to cry foul now.

It really dont matter who asked what in his thread what matters is what you asked. If the question that went unreplied in his thread was of such a concern to you why did you still follow through with the deal without some verification?

For someone that has been buying and selling thousands of dollars worth of stuff in forums you should definitely know better than that.

You failed to get the info you needed prior to buying the card you have nobody to blame but yourself IMO.

Worst of all abusing paypals disputes because you screwed yourself over and are not happy about it is crap. People like you are why i refuse to use paypal.
Click to expand...
+1, couldn't have said it better myself. DNT list, meet eclypse.
 
eclypse said:
I've talked to someone from paypal in the past on the phone when i had a prob with another seller and i was told that the first thing they look for is if there was a stated return poilcy. There isint.. And if for some reason paypal does nothing then i'll have a tad less then 90 days to do a charge back.. Either way its coming back.
Click to expand...

You have no business trading on these forums.

You buy a card that was CLEARLY SOLD AS DAMAGED, then you come here and try to discredit the seller.

You got what you paid for,I guess you expected to get a princess instead of a frog,oh well... you gambled and lost.

You even admit it might not be fixable, yet you come here and cry anyway...
Yes that tear in the PCB from the 1R0 chip could make it impossable to fix.
Click to expand...


you are now on my DNT list.
 
i'm decent with the iron and can repair simple defects but that one chip was clearly damaged.

I've talked to someone from paypal in the past on the phone when i had a prob with another seller and i was told that the first thing they look for is if there was a stated return poilcy. There isint.. And if for some reason paypal does nothing then i'll have a tad less then 90 days to do a charge back.. Either way its coming back.
Click to expand...


f'in yikes man... if you're trying to fix precision electronics even if you're a pro with electronic assembly/repair there's always a chance the install/fix wont work.

sabregen might've been less than honest when conveying the extent of the damages but when you buy a broken videocard there's a massive risk. i certainly wouldn't have paid 85 bucks for a broken anything but you were ok with it.

now you wanna welsh? bad form.
 
I saw the original for sale thread, and thought "only a retard would buy that for that price"

found one!
 
Welcome to my DNT list as well...

You asked questions and the seller tried to give a accurate reply to each of your questions. He also stated it's sold AS-IS so you took a risk and lost.

/thread

 
Agreed, you are now on my DNT list. I've read through this whole post now and you are in the wrong...on a side note Sabregen is a great and respectable trader on [H], I've never had a problem with him.
 
Monkey God said:
I saw the original for sale thread, and thought "only a retard would buy that for that price"

found one!
Click to expand...

That made me LOL in my office. My first thought when I read all the posts and private messages made public was that someone got excited about the cheap broken 7800's that could be fixed easy off ebay and was hoping to find a diamond in the rough with an 8800gts

mrw1986 said:
Agreed, you are now on my DNT list. I've read through this whole post now and you are in the wrong...on a side note Sabregen is a great and respectable trader on [H], I've never had a problem with him.
Click to expand...

I never check for trickers and trolls in this subforum, but whenever I saw sabregen's name in the forums list I had to look. Probably one of the best sellers on the forum.
 
Before I get to responding to the quoted section, which I feel is the only part of this whole debacle that has yet to be responded to, I just want to say that I am sorry to all of you that have had to read this post. To Malcolm, Dr.Evil and everyone else, I appreciate you all taking the time to chime in on this issue, and I realize that when threads end up here, it's never good (for buyer or seller).

I will be editing my FS thread directly after this, and removing the other item that I had that was damaged in shipping. From now on, unless the part is in perfect working condition, I will just use it for target practice. This is simply not worth the hassle, plain and simple. Had I realized that there was likely going to be no way to cover my ass, I would have just tossed the card myself, and saved myself $20 something bux that I spent on shipping. At any rate, many of you have responded to eclypse with "move, lesson learned." I certainly feel that is the case for me, as well.

I will not say that I feel like I did anything wrong in the sale, although, in retrospect I should have said "no refunds." I appear to not be the only one that thinks "as-is," when specifically stated in conjunction with "damaged in shipping," and a bunch of pictures with parts knocked off of the PCB equals no refunds. Be that as it may, it's been noted that as-is may not cover it. I will not forget this experience. It has by far been the most time consuming to date.

For reference, here's all the pictures at once that I uploaded to photobucket, of the card. I am a horrible photographer, and my camera is relatively cheap. I usually photograph parts without flash because I can't seem to figure out how to keep from getting a whited-out picture. This is especially true of close-up shots, where I have to enable the macro function:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture005-2.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture004-4.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture003-5.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture002-6.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture001-6.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture049.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture048.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture047.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/evgaregistration.jpg - original purchase date and serial # from eVGA registration
[http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture040.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture039.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture037.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture036.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture035.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture034.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture033.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture032.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/Picture031.jpg



eclypse said:
The part that has my mind puzzled is the fact that in the original sell thread the pics were taken of the card with the thermo goop under the thermo pads.. I ask for pics without the pads and if there was any damage on those marked chips i asked for. The pics he uploads then are with the pads removed and thermo goop cleaned off.

Now if you cleaned that Nvidia core of all the goop then how is it that the broken particals are left behind from the core being crushed? Would common sense tell you that when you cleaned the goop off clearly the broken debry from the core should of also been cleared up? Also you would of easliy felt the cracked edge of the core when you cleaned it.. WIth paper towel you would of felt it with your finger.. using a cue tip you would of noticed it cause cue tip particles would of snagged on to it and most likely stuck on there and you would of had to pull the fibers off the core.
Click to expand...



On to the quoted section....

When the thermal pads were removed, per your request, I did not clean the chips. Anyone that has a TMG ND5 kit will attest to the tackiness of the thermal compound underneath the top red colored material. As a matter of fact, you have the thermal pads in your posession. Peel them off from one another, you'll see that they leave very little residue on the surface that they are removed from. I did not clean the chips to take the pictures. Why would I clean a card that:

1. I was going to try and repair myself. I'm not going to clean a card until after it's repaired, with the exception of the parts that I intend to solder. There's nothing to solder on the RAM or the compositing engine chip...so no cleaning

2. After attempting to diagnose the situation, I determined that I could not fix it myself. This is why I decided to sell it. There's no point in cleaning off a card that is already broken, that I do not intend to fix myself, and that I planned to sell.

Paragraph #2 - see above. I didn't clean it. As a matter of fact, the only time that I had the card in my posession, after it was returned to me by the original buyer, without the thermal pads on it, was for the pictures that I took and sent to you. I did not inspect the card visually after removing the thermal pads. The extensive damage was apparent, hence the sale "as-is."
 
eclypse said:
I think the seller bought a 3rd party heatsink and cracked it himself.. Then just sold it off to someone.. The guy shipped this card in the retail package to someone in India! No other box was used.. What do you think would happen to a package shipped overseas with no padding and took over a month to get there???

He shipped it to me in the same retail box that still has the guys address on the outside of the graphics card retail box. Though he shipped it to me double boxed and no heatsink installed.
Click to expand...

Your assumptions are all incorrect, actually. ryan_975 was correct. You sir (eclypse), are completely wrong. The original package was shipped as such:

1.) All parts were packed as they came in their original un-opened state, in their retail boxes. The exception of course, being the OEM HSF unit that came with the 8800GTS 320MB SC that is in question. This, I forgot to attach to the card

2.) After all items were packed into their retail boxes, I put those retail boxes into another box, with lots of packing material. This however, proved a futile effort, as failure to secure the previously mentioned heatsink caused damage to the card.

Indian customs, or other entity placed the labels on the items (I believe that there was a label on the box for the 8800GTS and the TMG ND5), not me. I would never ship an item in a retail box, with someone's name on it and address. That's advertising to any pair of eyes that has a "sticky finger" inclination, and is just not intelligent.

The labels on the items should show Rohit Patel, kniwor on [H]. Since you seem to think that you can just go around giving false information, and attempting a smear campaign for what is essentially buyers remorse, and failure to do your homework before sending money on an item that was sold as-is:

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/originalpayments-1.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p72/sabregen/refundedpayments-1.jpg

Those two images show the name that I have given. You already have his address, as stated, on the labels. The first link shows 1 payment for the card and the TMG ND5 and payment for shipping charges, which was the agreement he and I had reached. The second link shows the refund of the purchase price of the card, as well as the refund for 1/2 the total shipping charges incurred (he paid to ship the item both ways, and requested that I pay for 1/2 the total charges, which was fair, I felt).

Before you go making accusations that are blatantly false, and an obvious attempt to ruin a perfectly good trading reputation, I suggest that you give consideration to the situation as a whole. I feel bad that you think the card is irreparable. However, the sale was as-is, and I'm not the only one that thinks perhaps you are just trying to back out of something that you are not comfortable in trying to repair yourself.

I again, invite everyone to respond on their own to these allegations, and the information that I have provided in my defense.
 
Whatever man.. I dont see how someone like you will go out of his way to refund the past buyer because of shipping damage.. he didnt buy insurrance and your a nice guy and give him his money back???

You didnt give a correct description for the card you sell me with Fixable and you sold me a dead card! Looks like your fault as well but wheres my money?

Whatver whatever whatever... if i didnt ask about that nvidia core i would eat it.. but in fact i did ask and you still sold it to me knowing it was damaged!

You had 2 other guys in that thread that were willing to buy the card from you for $50... Why not take the card back and see it to them "IF" you feel you gave a correct description of the card then they should still want it right???

I paid for a card that had a chance to fix.. Not a card that was dead!



Also about the thermo pads.. Come on man you can clearly see white compound oozing out of all sides under each thermo pad! Theres many close up pics of it.


As i see it.. All the sellers are backing you and all the buyers are backing me..
 
eclypse said:
2. item titled and sold as a fixable card with the right set of tools and skills. Its clearly not!
Click to expand...
Is that true?

Did he state that the card was "fixable"?

If he did, you deserve your money back.
 
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