sabregen
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EXIF data from the pictures....you would be surprised at the info in there..,
Yeah, I figured that's what it was, after posting my question. You sneaky bastard...
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sabregen sold me a misrepresented 8800GTS damaged in shipping. Wont refund money.
- Thread starter eclypse
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Yeah, I figured that's what it was, after posting my question. You sneaky bastard...
Since you are the one to respond to my post, I'm going to direct this towards you. I agree with you here, you are not in the wrong, or being a douchebag. I think the sticking point that the buyer has with you is that intentional or not, (clearly it wasn't intentional, and I believe you), it was still a misrepresentation. You had no knowledge of the damaged chip, but your account of the various damages did give the impression that they were complete and all inclusive--I guess that's the reason he's so upset. The fact that the omitted damage was the unrepairable(ie not a trivial misrepresentation, but an accidental and material one) one probably threw him over the edge =P
This doesnt really apply to this situation. You aren't a man-whore and the buyer isn't a "victim" right? From his perspective, he wasn't thinking that you might have been hiding something. Ie the wife who doesnt think her husband is a man-whore and doesn't think she needs to be attentive.
At the end of the day, I think you are in the right. You'll win the paypal dispute, and keep the paltry 90 dollars. I personally think the buyer is being rather annoying about this issue and creating a 4 page thread, and you have every right, to defend yourself.
But let me finish with an example. Apple sold iPhones for 600 dollars then dropped them to 400 dollars in 2 months. Do they have a legal (or moral) obligation to reimburse anything to their customers? No. But they went the extra mile(i'm assuming you are familiar with this).
My point here, and the only reason i'm expending effort to write this to you, is that you are in the right--why not make it a [H]ard right? If the buyer wont accept some kind of compromise, then let him lose the paypal case--and show eveyrone he's a douchebag. =]
DATAstrm
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This is how I see it...
The buyer thought he was getting a good deal on a card he could repair.....he was wrong and now he is pissed...too bad, grow up and take it like a man.
I have absolutely no sympathy for him, especially now that he has involved paypal.....
You got exactly what you paid for...A broken video card.
now suck it up and move along.
The buyer thought he was getting a good deal on a card he could repair.....he was wrong and now he is pissed...too bad, grow up and take it like a man.
I have absolutely no sympathy for him, especially now that he has involved paypal.....
You got exactly what you paid for...A broken video card.
now suck it up and move along.
sabregen
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I understand what you are saying. However, I will refrain from namecalling, as I don't feel it will bolster my position, and only serve to infuriate him, since he is already upset. also, he did not ask for a partial refund, he asked for a full refund, which is out of the question, especially given the length to which I am having to go to defend myself in this matter. If he attempted a civil resolution, or asked for a partial refund, I may have been so inclined. However, since he decided to make it public, and go through all of this, I will stand my ground on the matter.
PS - To all, thanks again for all of your input on the matter. Please continue to provide any relevant information that you can, or ask any questions that you may have.
PS - To all, thanks again for all of your input on the matter. Please continue to provide any relevant information that you can, or ask any questions that you may have.
I agree with you, if I were the seller (you) I would have not liked this matter made public, in having him favor my decision, I would have atleast partially if not, fully refunded his money to shut him up, but after going public, like he purposely did, trying to slander your name, I wouldn't give him a penny.
Fight it out dude, you are not liable, eclypse needs to man up and accept his mistake.
I highly doubt he will refrain his dispute, eclypse's ego is obviously blinding him, not to mention his ignorance to comply.
big ego + ignorance, the fall of all man kind.
Wrong i asked for one.. Even went on stating that you never offered even a partial refund.. To which you did respond to.. Remember i said i feel its fair that i spend $30 on a non repairable/spare parts graphics card and the 3rd party heatsink you included.
Yes.. Finally some are seeing what i've tried to get accross this whole time. I feel deceived cause i asked about certain chips and if any damage was to them. Since in the end there was thats why i'm ticked. I wanted a chance to fix the card. you cant fix that.
If i bought a card in this conditiona and the buyer did not go on about repairing it and detailing all the damage and said buyer is taking a gamble fixing this and i'm selling it as is and or just for parts and put a cheap price representing the fact and i get the card and see i cant repair it fine.. Case closed and i move on.
But the way it was presented and i asked about damage to certain areas to which in my mind would make the card "Dead" and the seller implied there fine and sold it to me knowing my intention was clearly to fix this card is where i bite.
Yes.. Finally some are seeing what i've tried to get accross this whole time. I feel deceived cause i asked about certain chips and if any damage was to them. Since in the end there was thats why i'm ticked. I wanted a chance to fix the card. you cant fix that.
If i bought a card in this conditiona and the buyer did not go on about repairing it and detailing all the damage and said buyer is taking a gamble fixing this and i'm selling it as is and or just for parts and put a cheap price representing the fact and i get the card and see i cant repair it fine.. Case closed and i move on.
But the way it was presented and i asked about damage to certain areas to which in my mind would make the card "Dead" and the seller implied there fine and sold it to me knowing my intention was clearly to fix this card is where i bite.
I'm defending myself and my problem with the seller "sabregen" just as he is about him.. I have the right to do so.
Obviously he has the backs of many sellers here.. I have PM's of a few that agree with me though i can see they may not want to back me publicly.
Obviously he has the backs of many sellers here.. I have PM's of a few that agree with me though i can see they may not want to back me publicly.
sabregen
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Indeed, I responded initially to his filing with 2 posts to Paypal of my own, then he went, then me, then him twice. I am done providing information in the dispute. I expect that any escalation to an open claim will only net me having to provide the same information all over again, and maybe thensome, so I will refrain from doubling my work load at this time. There does not appear to be an amicable resolution in the matter, which is unfortunate, albeit (since it was made public) inevitable.
The few that agree probably want sebregen to make newegg.com miracles, he isn't a retail store or an online vendor, he's not obligated to bend over backwards and take a loss due to your inability to comply! it's simple!
Since you are the one to respond to my post, I'm going to direct this towards you. I agree with you here, you are not in the wrong, or being a douchebag. I think the sticking point that the buyer has with you is that intentional or not, (clearly it wasn't intentional, and I believe you), it was still a misrepresentation. You had no knowledge of the damaged chip, but your account of the various damages did give the impression that they were complete and all inclusive--I guess that's the reason he's so upset. The fact that the omitted damage was the unrepairable(ie not a trivial misrepresentation, but an accidental and material one) one probably threw him over the edge =P
This doesnt really apply to this situation. You aren't a man-whore and the buyer isn't a "victim" right? From his perspective, he wasn't thinking that you might have been hiding something. Ie the wife who doesnt think her husband is a man-whore and doesn't think she needs to be attentive.
At the end of the day, I think you are in the right. You'll win the paypal dispute, and keep the paltry 90 dollars. I personally think the buyer is being rather annoying about this issue and creating a 4 page thread, and you have every right, to defend yourself.
But let me finish with an example. Apple sold iPhones for 600 dollars then dropped them to 400 dollars in 2 months. Do they have a legal (or moral) obligation to reimburse anything to their customers? No. But they went the extra mile(i'm assuming you are familiar with this).
My point here, and the only reason i'm expending effort to write this to you, is that you are in the right--why not make it a [H]ard right? If the buyer wont accept some kind of compromise, then let him lose the paypal case--and show eveyrone he's a douchebag. =]
DATAstrm
sabregen
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Correct me if I am wrong, but stating that you feel the parts were worth an estimated $30 does not imply that you are asking for a refund of the difference, espcially at this point in the game. Also, comparatively, an item that can potentially be repaired, and is sold "as-is" for approximately 25% of the original value is cheap.
Math:
Original purchase price of card = $299.99
Original purchase price of stock cooler = $45
*shipping not included...either to me originally, or to the buyer*
TOTAL original purchase = $344.99
Sale price = $83.39
ratio: 24.17% of original value
To be fair, you should use current market value for the item.
Already touched on this subject prior . My answer is on post #45.
I could not tell.. No one else chimed in saying it was chipped. Looked like a diry chip with particles of thermo greese still on it.
I believe i waited 2 replies from him in PM before posted.
I knew after him going all off in a PM when i asked if i had the right DC# i would have my hands full if i had a prob with the card.
Just a simple question of "Could you please double check the DC# you gave me.. seems to come up empty." from me wish would normally just have the seller reply with the dc# again but insted i get all this:
I am at work now, and the DC label is on my desk at home. The good news is that I will be home in about 2.5hours. I will be sure to send it to you as soon as I arrive there. I just checked it myself, and am also seeing "There is no record of this item" If you've been following the Tips tricks and Trolls section lately, I can certainly understand your concern. Seems scamming is on the rise around here. However, my heat should help to put you at ease, I would hope.
Heat is under sabregen, just in case you forgot, or lost that bit of information. Again, I will double check the DC label when I get home in a little bit, and let you know if I fat fingered it. I also have the receipt from the shipping. I can take pics of it, if you'd like, and PM that to you as well. Three possibilities exist in my mind:
1.) I fat fingered the DC label #
2.) I paid for DC, and the post office didnt actually scan the label
3.) I didn't pay for the DC, even though it was attached to the box, and therefore, they didn't scan it.
I'm hoping for #1 or #3, but would certainly prefer #1 to all others. I will LYK what I find out when I get to the house.
Josh
I knew that the seller would sit back and let the others chime in and shoot me down.. Constantly try to belittle and discredit me. I could of posted that early on in the thread before he had a chance.
Also i'll add that i did not buy this card with the intent of fixing it for my own use or to turn a quick buck. I already of had 2x Evga 8800GTX cards in my rig since last christmas.
I bought this card with the intent to upgrade my Godsons 2 7800GTX cards i gave him in the custom computer i built for him last chirstmas.. I paid for most of the computer and originally bought a single 7900GTX for it but trashed the card by chipping that same nvidia core putting a 3rd party heatsink on it. Same damage i found on the card i got from sabregen. So i gave him my 2x 7800GTX cards insted as i needed a runing computer to give him on Christmas eve.
Since he's now really getting into PC gaming i seen the chance to get him something that would have a better chance to play some of todays newest games like COD 4.
So thats it..
Last chance for sabregen to offer some kind of reasonable refund before i process the claim further.
Also i'll add that i did not buy this card with the intent of fixing it for my own use or to turn a quick buck. I already of had 2x Evga 8800GTX cards in my rig since last christmas.
I bought this card with the intent to upgrade my Godsons 2 7800GTX cards i gave him in the custom computer i built for him last chirstmas.. I paid for most of the computer and originally bought a single 7900GTX for it but trashed the card by chipping that same nvidia core putting a 3rd party heatsink on it. Same damage i found on the card i got from sabregen. So i gave him my 2x 7800GTX cards insted as i needed a runing computer to give him on Christmas eve.
Since he's now really getting into PC gaming i seen the chance to get him something that would have a better chance to play some of todays newest games like COD 4.
So thats it..
Last chance for sabregen to offer some kind of reasonable refund before i process the claim further.
BinarySynapse
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What exaclty is wrong with that response? There's is nothing demeaning, belittling, or even rude about it. It simply just a seller trying his best to reassure a buyer hasn't been scammed. He even went as far as to not only tell you he understood where you might be concerned, but why. How is this even the slightest bit damaging to his rep? In actuality it does more damage to you as it shows that you are a conniving, word twisting, and impatient man who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. I might even add fraudulent since you've now involved Paypal. With every post you make that attacks him, you make yourself look more and more like the scammer in this situation. Ever since the first time you posted the photos of the board, before you even got the card in your hands, I saw the NV chip was damaged, dark and blurry picture or not.
That is an excellent, courteous response that gives you tons of info, reassures you that you're not being scammed, and assures you that the issue will be checked the moment he arrives home and gets the DC label.
He could have simply said "don't have the label, wait til I get home" or just not responded at all til he got home. This is probably the best possible reply to your question.
sabregen
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actually, since you feel compelled to try and smear me in this thread, which I have refrained from doing, this is more of the context of that PM:
So not only did I warn you about people trolling, but I lived up to my promise to PMs you the DC # again, and you confirmed that the label # was then working later in the evening. On top of this, you obviously had no problem with the transaction until you discovered that you did not get the answers you were looking for, only after the item was bought, paid for, and shipped. If you feel justified in escalating the claim, then you do what you will.
Josh
eclypse said:
So not only did I warn you about people trolling, but I lived up to my promise to PMs you the DC # again, and you confirmed that the label # was then working later in the evening. On top of this, you obviously had no problem with the transaction until you discovered that you did not get the answers you were looking for, only after the item was bought, paid for, and shipped. If you feel justified in escalating the claim, then you do what you will.
Josh
Nope wrong..
Seller listed the item as a repairable 8800GTS card (See the sale thread title "Got soldering skills 8800GTS 320MB SC damaged w-all parts and TMG ND5 Chea").
Listed it with detailed pictures with arrows of all the stated damage.. Well not all. Said its probably an easy fix for someone that has the skills to repair it and that he does not and gave up trying to fix it.
Priced it high at $150 originally.. This also shows the seller thought it was an easy fix as the price of the card new is $300 less for a used card.
The clincher:
I asked for specific pictures of the condition of marked chips making it known if theres any damage on them i'm not interested as the card will be non-repairable and offer $75 for it if it all checks out. He responds with the pictures that are dark and its hard to see if theres any damage. I took this as its all fine as if there was damage to any of them he would of told me as i asked. Also pointing to the original price of $150 is also saying its all good and an easy fix.
I feel mislead and thats why i want the money back. i would never nor would anyone else buy a card that should be sold as parts with that damage for $83.39 knowing it was trashed behond repair.
sabregen
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hey eclypse, look on the bright side of all of this. your continual posts regarding the trade in question has bumped you from "n00bie" to "[H]Lite"!
Marshall82
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The part you are forgetting is you can stand back and complain about the pics and anything else he sent you but you still accepted the deal and paid him. You knew the card was damaged when you bought it, meaning it didnt work when you bought it. This implies a risk on your part to try and fix the card knowing that it wouldn't be guaranteed to work. The seller never said he would guarantee the card would work. But you still accepted the deal by paying him and buying the card. Hence he is in the clear and you just need to put it to bed.
ROFLhey eclypse, look on the bright side of all of this. your continual posts regarding the trade in question has bumped you from "n00bie" to "[H]Lite"!
ok fine.. Thanks for again trying to make me look like the bad guy here.
You should of sold that card like it should of been as a damaged/sold for parts and told me about the damage on that nvidia chip so we would'nt be having any probs right now.
Sorry to waste anyones time reading all of this.. its just hard to prove a point when they have damaged card pictures in front of them. I dont blame any of you for not reading threw and seeing my point which i tried ever so hard to make.
BinarySynapse
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I'll step through this for the hell of it.
You can clearly see a questionable spot on the chips in the photos you say he responded with, DESPITE them being of poor quality. You could have easily asked for clearer photos and even instructed him how to use his camera since apparantly you know so much about it.
Instead of asking for clarification, you allow yourself to mislead yourself. Had you ask for better photos, a personal inspection, or just plain dropped the deal due feelin as if you'd been inadaquately inform you would be in ~$90 richer state right now.
your constant baseless accusations is what is turning so many people against you. You have ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF to this claim, and yet you keep slinging it around as if everyone will eventually believe you if you do it long enough.
hey eclypse, look on the bright side of all of this. your continual posts regarding the trade in question has bumped you from "n00bie" to "[H]Lite"!
Does it matter.. Even my wife says dont go back there again after this because if other users cant see the truth and are fine with sellers being dishonest then i should not want to deal there.
sladesurfer
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I agree with marshall, Card is broken when it was sold. not hes fault if you cant fix it. The point is that he said the card is not working period.
Ok ok
there seem to a lot of back and forth discussion here but mostly against the OP
being neutral here
yes he made the mistake of buying a damaged card in which the damage can be seen from the pictures
I remember reading the seller's thread before he edited out the text
I still remember that he said that only the parts he initially photographed needed fixing with a soldering gun
he didnt say about the chip having damage or needed replacing
both sides in here are at fault..
the buyer for not paying attention to the details
and the seller for not giving all the necessary information
there seem to a lot of back and forth discussion here but mostly against the OP
being neutral here
yes he made the mistake of buying a damaged card in which the damage can be seen from the pictures
I remember reading the seller's thread before he edited out the text
I still remember that he said that only the parts he initially photographed needed fixing with a soldering gun
he didnt say about the chip having damage or needed replacing
both sides in here are at fault..
the buyer for not paying attention to the details
and the seller for not giving all the necessary information
Marshall82
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Now to me that sound like you are pitying people who wont side with you on this. I also interpret that as a degrading comment to those of us who have sided with Sabregen. Now if you want to try and sound condescending to people because they dont think that you are right, then I would hope everyone who may take offense to that comment to stand up and give you the bird. You are wrong on this and if anyone at paypal has half a brain cell you wont be getting a refund. I only hope this thread serves as a display to people who may do business with you in the future to second guess it. I don't care if you offered twice the value of any items I might be selling, I wouldn't touch you with a 10ft ethernet cable....
sladesurfer
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*Sigh* How is he being dishonest when he clearly stated on the thread that the card is not working???
BinarySynapse
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Except that the seller also included that it was damaged in shipping. This all by itself implies that there could very well be more extensive damage to the card. Had he said that he knocked the caps off and couldn't resolder them this would be a different situation. But he didn't
sabregen
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morever, I said it didn't work, which was clear from the pictures.
Even in an unrelated post, you cannot see the humor of how ridiculous I am sure that we both feel this situation is. Despite those differences, you need to be able to laugh a little. It will be a lesson learned, I'm sure, for both of us. I won'tbe selling any more items that are known non-working, and you won't be buying them! I'd say that's enough to come away with, regardless of what the decision is from Paypal, or anyone else.
I have gone above in beyond in the whole process of this transaction to not get angry, to not slander you as I feel you have me, and yet you continue to lash out, with the same argument that you have been told by many to be a futile and baseless claim. I understand that this is your position. I can respect that. I have my position, and though you may not like it, I would request the same courteousy as I afford you. When it's all said and done it the time for "I told you so," if you so choose. In the meantime, I would recommend refraining from attempting to smear me, as I am not attempting to smear you.
You asked for a full refund. A partial, perhaps, I would have been inclined to grant. It's not like I get off on ruining people's plans to make something work that I think is a loss. I'm not trying to take your idea for a wonderful present to your godson away. I didn't get almost 100 positive heat by being a jerk, and telling people to kiss off, and that they were screwed. Any idea to the contrary would be ludicrous. There have even been times that I shipped items to the wrong address, sent one guys item to another, and visa versa, and even shipped the completely wrong item. Know what I did? I paid the recipient of the incorrect parts to send the item to the correct person, or sent the correct item, paying for shipping myself, a second time (as I should have, in that situation), and even given full refunds allowing people to keep the item. Do you know why I did this for them? because my reputation to me is more important than the small amounts of $ that changed hands during the course of the transaction, that's why. I rely on my good reputation to do business, and do these transactions. Almost 100 heat, and not 1 single person unsatisfied...
...and I'm the bad guy here?
He presented the card in a manner that made it seem like it could be working with some soldering work. Obvioulsy it is going to take more than that for it to work. Like a whole new card.
Agree with this 100%.
The 'right' thing to do imo is to refund the money based on the card not being what it was sold as. It was sold 'AS-IS' as a card that could be repaired with a little soldering work. That is the premise the buyer purchased the card under and it did not meet that condition. Granted, the seller could have covered his ass more by saying 'I am not 100% positive that is all that is wrong and anything else you find is your own business', but the fact he wantes $150 for the card leads me to believe he was presenting the card as being repariable with a few new caps and a soldering iron. Whether he was misleading intentionally or not is still up for grabs.
Finally, just have to add the buyer is dumb for even attempting this in the first place.
true, but also it brings into question the responsibility of the seller
if he knows it was damaged he should have done the effort to provide pictures or scan the video card for more damage and describe it to the possible buyer
it comes into question that he initially photographed the video card with the pads on it
and when it didnt have them, the pictures look dark..
but also the buyer is at fault here for not doing more before buying..
all I see in this thread is constant discussion against the buyer.. but also the seller should be accounted for
There have even been times that I shipped items to the wrong address, sent one guys item to another, and visa versa, and even shipped the completely wrong item. Know what I did? I paid the recipient of the incorrect parts to send the item to the correct person, or sent the correct item, paying for shipping myself, a second time (as I should have, in that situation), and even given full refunds allowing people to keep the item. Do you know why I did this for them? because my reputation to me is more important than the small amounts of $ that changed hands during the course of the transaction, that's why. I rely on my good reputation to do business, and do these transactions. Almost 100 heat, and not 1 single person unsatisfied...
...and I'm the bad guy here?
He made that mistake with me. He sent my items to someone else and he was deeply sorry for it. He was sick at the time so I understood his mistake. I got the item in perfect condition. He is a trustworthy seller. Leave him alone. *waves at sabregen*
Thanks for the item! Works great still!sabregen, give it time bro, eventually this will all end with you in favor, it's only obvious. The people backing up eclypse are doing it to favor the opposite, basically.
As far as eclypse, seriously, don't make yourself look even worse, bringing up your wife in this really starts to make me question your status as a semi-smart individual. Obviously your wife is on your side, with the bullshit you're feeding members here in this thread, I could only imagine what bullshit your feeding your wife, now she supports your "argument" for dispute, way to go to justify the continuous battle!
Cheers!!!
As far as eclypse, seriously, don't make yourself look even worse, bringing up your wife in this really starts to make me question your status as a semi-smart individual. Obviously your wife is on your side, with the bullshit you're feeding members here in this thread, I could only imagine what bullshit your feeding your wife, now she supports your "argument" for dispute, way to go to justify the continuous battle!
Cheers!!!
Paypal will not decide in your favor, I can guarantee you that.
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And you will lose, as you should.
Because you had no business buying that card , then crying cause you didn't get a $300.00 card for $80.00
And take your wifes advice and don't trade here anymore, we all agree with her on that one.
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