[Rumour] PS5 Pro dev kit prototypes will be going to 1st party developers within the next couple of months

Linus had a video about this and recommends the Razer DeathAdder Essential Gaming Mouse: 6400 DPI for $25.
It looks like a variation of the Logitech G502 Hero, which is a great mouse, I just personally hate the Razer software.
You aren't going to compare a controller to a keyboard and mouse of any kind. You want to argue quality which... sure it's not the same level of quality. I choose Logitech devices because you generally can't go wrong with them. But a user with a $70 DualSense controller vs a $10 Logitech Mouse with a $10 Logitech Keyboard will still lose in 90% of games against a KB+mouse user. It's so bad that in order for gamepad users to compete against KB+mouse users they need aim assist, which is so good that KB+mouse users started to take advantage of this by faking they have a gamepad.
KB&M all day, but for the titles out there where a controller feels better, while I like my Logitech the PS5 controller is much nicer.
 
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When I searched I didn't find that one. Searching now and not only I still can't find that one but by the second page Amazon started to recommend the Switch and by the third page there was no consoles to be found. Walmart does have the console for $500. What the hell Amazon?

That's not worth it.

You aren't going to compare a controller to a keyboard and mouse of any kind. You want to argue quality which... sure it's not the same level of quality. I choose Logitech devices because you generally can't go wrong with them. But a user with a $70 DualSense controller vs a $10 Logitech Mouse with a $10 Logitech Keyboard will still lose in 90% of games against a KB+mouse user. It's so bad that in order for gamepad users to compete against KB+mouse users they need aim assist, which is so good that KB+mouse users started to take advantage of this by faking they have a gamepad.

Any keyboard will do unless you are actually capable of typing. If you type with your index finger like this, then a mechanical keyboard is lost to you. For something like WASD gaming, then pretty much any keyboard will do.
View attachment 638800

Linus had a video about this and recommends the Razer DeathAdder Essential Gaming Mouse: 6400 DPI for $25.


View: https://youtu.be/ivRL-fs3RQo?si=vOcGHFaR-_Pt8Q-s

Linus recommend this Redragon Mechanical Gaming Keyboard for $30 which I actually own. It's a really good keyboard.

MSRP doesn't matter much for PC because it's not like all your old peripherals went in the trash because you bought a new PC. You have a lot to choose from. If you want a gamepad then you can use a PS3 Dualshock 3 controller. You can use nearly anything you want, new or used. Doesn't have to be from Sony and Microsoft either.

Again, the point is that we are trying to see what it actually costs to get an at least more/less equivalent PC to a PS5. Let alone one which might be better. And its trickier than people often think. Because the PS5 packs a lot of features for the money. The digital version knocks $50 off. which is a non-trivial amount, when trying to scrape together an equivalent PC using bottom barrel methods. And if you account for the 4K blu-ray drive, that would add a lot of cost to the PC.

Again, my point on the peripherals is that the Dualsense is quality and has advanced features and one is included with the PS5. Cheap generic brands you mentioned earlier, are not acceptable comparison. And neither is a 17 year old Dualshock 3. If you are going to buy an equivalent gamepad for PC-----well some games support the Dual Sense features, now. Otherwise, an Xbone or Series X controller, or Switch Pro Controller, or something in line with those in quality and recency of design, would be the alternatives.

The Razer Deathadder Essential and Redragon keyboard are good options for keyboard and mouse. and I am glad you pointed them out.
 
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IMO, another thing to consider, is that PS5 comes with wifi built-in. Which is incredibly useful for a lot of people. There are many living situations where its not possible and/or at least not very practical, to connect with a physical cable. I think an ~ equivalent PC should have wifi built into the motherboard. Which is an added cost, indeed.

I myself have lived in a rental for 2.5 years, where my only option for wired, would be to pay someone to run coaxial to my room and then try something like a MoCa adapter or purchase my own separate service to be installed in my room.

*MoCa adapter would be a super long run from my upstairs room to the modem and router near the downstairs coaxial.

MSRP doesn't matter much for PC because it's not like all your old peripherals went in the trash because you bought a new PC. You have a lot to choose from. If you want a gamepad then you can use a PS3 Dualshock 3 controller. You can use nearly anything you want, new or used. Doesn't have to be from Sony and Microsoft either.

I see this sort of thing a lot, when it comes to the topic of building a PC to compete with or be better than a PS5. The idea of re-using parts and/or peripherals. Which is......a big question mark. Outside of this computer forum and forums like it.......many, maybe even most people, won't have re-usable PC parts. Like none at all. Either due to a super old computer or due to the fact that laptops and tablets are incredibly common as the main "computer", nowadays. And most youtube videos on this topic, completely miss this point. I think these channels are so used to having a plethora of parts or are accustomed to utilizing avenues for used, etc: they forget the reality for the average buyer.

Buying PC parts is also frustrating, because prices can vary wildly. New or used. Two weeks ago, 7700 XT was $350. Now is well over $400. Earlier I mentioned "super best friend" pricing, because that's the sort of thing that most of these videos and discussions end up basing their theoretical PC build on. A build done with bottom barrel, hard to get pricing. Or re-using parts, assuming that's even possible.

When it comes to peripherals. Yes indeed, you can use any old mouse and keyboard and get the job somewhat done. and you can pull out that 17 year old controller and it will still work on a PC. But, those aren't more/less equivalent to the PS5 experience.
 
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P.S. The RX6600 is at least 2 product rungs lower than the GPU in the PS5.

RX 6600 --> RX 6600 XT/6650 XT/RX 7600 ---> RX 6700

The closest PC GPU to the one in the PS5's APU, is the RX 6700 (non-XT). On paper, it has a lot of the same specs. And some specs which are a little worse on the PS5. Overall the PS5 has, on paper, less FLOPs.
According to Linus he thinks a 3700X with a 6600XT is the equivalent to the PS5. Which is $60 more if you buy in AmericaLand, but on Aliexpress it's the same price as the 6600. Not everyone wants to wait for shipping from China and deal with Chinese brands like JIESHUO, so I thought a 6600 would do. Linus used a A770 which is a nice card but I can't find it for $200 like he did. Not even used on Ebay can I find an Intel A770 for less than $250, let alone $200. As for performance I could always point at the Gamers Nexus video where it doesn't perform as well as you think against a PC.

View: https://youtu.be/HCvE4JGJujk?si=y_U3iRf_FjMleMh0
And Digital Foundry's experience was overall, inconsistent. There were times when the PS5 experience was better. Times when it was worse. And times when it was a wash. Unsurprising in my opinion, because the PS5 is a highly customized APU. Major aspects of the PS5 architecture are not reproduced in PC builds.
Yea, I don't believe in magic, but I know you do. Point to where you see this aspect the PS5 has that the PC can't reproduce?
***dang, another problem with your build, is that it lacks PCI-E 4.0 support in the motherboard and a Gen4 SSD with at least ~5500 read speed.
A problem that nobody will realistically notice.
You also can't play UHD Blu-ray movies without a specific processor, and your monitor needs to be connected to that processor so that the iGPU renders the video.
You still play Blu-Ray movies in 2024? If that PC can't somehow play those movies if it was given a Blu-Ray drive then piracy can fix that. That PC is more than capable of playing movies.
IMO, another thing to consider, is that PS5 comes with wifi built-in. Which is incredibly useful for a lot of people. There are many living situations where its not possible and/or at least not very practical, to connect with a physical cable.. I think an ~ equivalent PC should have wifi built into the motherboard. Which is an added cost, indeed.
Here's a motherboard with the same cost but with Wifi Built in. It's a Micro-ATX instead of a full ATX that I prefer. You want a B550 that supports PCI-E 4.0 then here's another motherboard for the same price, but it only has 2 ram slots. If you want both then this Gigabyte costs $10 more. You could just add a Wifi card for $23. These are not real issues and can be solved by just looking harder.
It is not a fair comparison at all. The average person is not capable or willing to build their own computer let alone spend so much time trying to hunt down deals and used parts.
If you don't have money and things are tight then get to learning. You can't hide behind incompetence forever.

View: https://youtu.be/6Ec4PIJPK1A?si=1Ol0eX0WipqO08pB
It is only $80 for a year. That is nearly 20 years before you get to $1500.
As a WoW player who pays $15 a month I don't subscribe for the cheaper yearly fee because I hope to not play this game for a year. Doesn't always work out that way, and I do end up paying that $15 per month instead of the $155 yearly fee. This is why monthly fees suck.
 
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Again, the point is that we are trying to see what it actually costs to get an at least more/less equivalent PC to a PS5. Let alone one which might be better. And its trickier than people often think. Because the PS5 packs a lot of features for the money. The digital version knocks $50 off. which is a non-trivial amount, when trying to scrape together an equivalent PC using bottom barrel methods. And if you account for the 4K blu-ray drive, that would add a lot of cost to the PC.

Again, my point on the peripherals is that the Dualsense is quality and has advanced features and one is included with the PS5. Cheap generic brands you mentioned earlier, are not acceptable comparison. And neither is a 17 year old Dualshock 3. If you are going to buy an equivalent gamepad for PC-----well some games support the Dual Sense features, now. Otherwise, an Xbone or Series X controller, or Switch Pro Controller, or something in line with those in quality and recency of design, would be the alternatives.

The Razer Deathadder Essential and Redragon keyboard are good options for keyboard and mouse. and I am glad you pointed them out.

PCs as powerful as PS5 can't play 4k blu-rays without hacks so you'd really just need a BD reader drive for the PC, unlike the ps5 which needs the drive to play certain games and films.
 
It's been a while since I looked into this but, the last time I checked you need software and specific drive and FW combinations to circumvent the copy protection for UHD BDs. I doubt most people would want to bother with it unless that's changed.
 
It's been a while since I looked into this but, the last time I checked you need software and specific drive and FW combinations to circumvent the copy protection for UHD BDs. I doubt most people would want to bother with it unless that's changed.
I haven't dealt with Blu-Ray in a long time but when the hell did they need this much bullshit to play a movie? Most people don't use Blu-Ray for movie watching in 2024 and for good reasons. The thing that needs to be understood is that if you have money and you have a Blu-Ray collection then a powerful PC is probably what you'd want anyway. You'd most likely have a dedicated Blu-Ray player for this purpose. The PS5 is mainly for budget oriented people, with the PS5 Pro aiming towards those with more disposable income. I'm guessing maybe $650 or $700 for the PS5 Pro, because Sony seems to be into raising prices? When Sony released the PS4 Pro which is based around the RX 480, but AMD also released the RX 480. I'm thinking that the same thing might happen again with AMD releasing a new RDNA4 mid range GPU that will find it's way into the PS5 Pro. The original PS4 Pro released for $400, just like the original price of the PS4. Sony should just do the same thing for the PS5 Pro and make it the new $500 console. Things like Blu-Ray UHD 4K support are just people trying to grasp for justification of paying $500 for a over 3 year old console. Which as a reminder is equivalent to a mid to high end PC from 5 years before the release of the PS5. Tech Jesus said it.
 
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Regular BDs have different requirements. Any BD drive plus software (some is free to use) should work fine there. I'm not sure about newer drives but, there are probably still some available.
 
Regular BDs have different requirements. Any BD drive plus software (some is free to use) should work fine there. I'm not sure about newer drives but, there are probably still some available.
There are no specific hardware requirements for standard Blu-ray. I have a WinDVD Pro license and a 16-year old BD/HD-DVD drive that still gets it done.
Things like Blu-Ray UHD 4K support are just people trying to grasp for justification of paying $500 for a over 3 year old console.
I have a standalone UHD Blu-ray player. I bought the consoles with disc drives primarily for backward compatibility purposes. But there are people who buy them to also play movies.
 
It's a lifetime license.
Sometimes when you watch latest blu-ray discs, it asks for refreshing keys, and the new keys available only with latest version of the software (I had free power DVD that came with the drive) which has to be repurchased. It made me feel like blu-ray is a scam.
 
Sometimes when you watch latest blu-ray discs, it asks for refreshing keys, and the new keys available only with latest version of the software (I had free power DVD that came with the drive) which has to be repurchased. It made me feel like blu-ray is a scam.
More or less the same as DRM for games, the customer gets the short end of it. Better off ripping the discs or with on the fly decryption.
 
I suspect a PS5 Pro will be Sony's last disc based console.
That will be less beneficial to Sony than Sony would believe. The AAA gaming industry is going through a sorta E.T. moment with all the layoffs and me thinks it's because of the universal choice to go $70. Most if not all of the best games of 2023 weren't $70. Tears of the Kingdom was a $70 game, but you could easily find the game for $60 new. Nintendo is so upset from the unexpected lack of sales from TOTK that Nintendo is now suing the Yuzu Switch emulator guys. Sony themselves shut down an entire studio in London. The biggest games of 2024 are PalWorld and HellDivers 2, which are again not even $60 let alone $70. The disc drive is the only way a Playstation 5 owner can hope to get discounted games, which are now standard $70. Take that away and you'll have to pay whatever Sony is asking for on their store. Unless Sony plans to allow other stores to sell games on the PS5, then I see the PS5 Pro as the last successful Sony game console.
 
Confirmation of leaked specs:
(As noted earlier tflops of RDNA 3 (pro) & RDNA 2 (ps5/xbox) are not equivalent)

Today’s leaked documents also confirmed:

  • Rendering 45% faster than PS5
  • 2-3x Ray-tracing (x4 in some cases)
  • 33.5 Teraflops
  • PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling) upscaling/antialiasing solution
  • Support for resolutions up to 8K is planned for future SDK version
  • Custom machine learning architecture
  • AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point
Insider Gaming, who was also shared documentation from the developer portal under the condition that it’s not shared publicly or privately can also confirm that Devkits have been available to first-party studios since September 2023, third-party since January 2024, and from Spring 2024 Testkits will also be available which will be identical to the final product.

Insider Gaming understands that the PS5 Pro is currently aiming for a tentative holiday 2024 release, but the date could be changed due to the lack of first-party games released on the PlayStation 5 this year.

https://insider-gaming.com/ps5-pro-specs-2024/
 
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Is 300 tops between a 4060 and 4060Ti type of performance ? Could give them quite the inference raw power for their upscaling here, wonder if they can make a bit more ambitious solution knowing that 100% of the user base has that good of inference strength and does not try to run on a 2060.
 
I wonder if Sony is researching and planning more models, like a denoiser, for example, to give developers

Seems a logical step given they're ramping up RT a bit.
 
Was the talk of AMD about an upcoming in 2024 AI upscaler linked to the PSSR (I imagine they are involved in talk with Sony about this, if they put so much AI power on that chips for it and if the upscaler take advantage of the latest 8 bits solution (unlike I imagine nvidia one that need to run on turing-ampere).

Will AMD have their own different one later on .... or it was only the Playstation that will have it, the statement was only our gaming devices to upscale using AI... vague enough.
 
Was the talk of AMD about an upcoming in 2024 AI upscaler linked to the PSSR (I imagine they are involved in talk with Sony about this, if they put so much AI power on that chips for it and if the upscaler take advantage of the latest 8 bits solution (unlike I imagine nvidia one that need to run on turing-ampere).

Will AMD have their own different one later on .... or it was only the Playstation that will have it, the statement was only our gaming devices to upscale using AI... vague enough.
It was a very vague statement by AMD

At bare minimum whatever Sony does should be possibly in RDNA 4
& since RDNA 4 is only a slight optimization of RDNA 3, it should be possible to backport it to RDNA 3

So an AI enabled FSR 4 by end of this year that works on all RDNA 3 GPUs 🤔🤔
 
since RDNA 4 is only a slight optimization of RDNA 3, it should be possible to backport it to RDNA 3
It they add a 300 Tops of 8 bits computation to it, it is a complete different class than a 7900xtx in that regards, it is almost 3xtime the 8bits inference power (if they did not had that accelerate and used FP16 for them and if I am not saying something stupid which is possible), it would even be a little bit stronger than a Lovelace 4060.

And because Sony know in advance that their solution run exclusively on very powerful 8bits inference machine (which could be a preview of what future version of DLSS-Xess to complicated to run on the old gpu of the future could do on the pc side, specially that console do not aim at low latency-high FPS very much and the PS5 pro will be "overpowered" to play the games that it will run at first, they should have a good upscaling millisecond budget), they can end up with a solution that would not run at all on RDNA 3.
 
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Following this week’s leaks on the PlayStation 5 Pro GPU specs and performance targets, Insider Gaming has learned more PlayStation 5 Pro specs. For comparison sake, we’ll also include the specifications of the Standard PlayStation 5.

System Memory​

Standard PlayStation 5 – 448 GB/s (14 GT/s)
PlayStation 5 Pro – 576 GB/s (18GT/s) – A 28% increase over the standard console.

Also outlined is that the PlayStation 5 Pro’s system memory is more efficient than the standard console, so the bandwidth gain may increase by over 28%.

CPU​

The CPU is identical to the standard PlayStation 5, however, the Pro has a ‘High CPU Frequency Mode”, which takes the CPU to 3.85GHz – A 10% increase over the standard console.

In High CPU Frequency Mode, more power is allocated to the CPU and will downclock the GPU by around 1.5%, resulting in roughly 1% lower GPU performance.

Audio​

The ACV in the PlayStation 5 Pro runs at a higher clock speed over the standard PlayStation 5, resulting in the ACM library having 35% more performance.

  • More convolution reverbs can be processed
  • More FFT or IFFT can be processed

GPU (Previously revealed)​

  • Rendering 45% faster than PS5
  • 2-3x Ray-tracing (x4 in some cases)
  • 33.5 Teraflops
  • PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling) upscaling/antialiasing solution
  • Support for resolutions up to 8K is planned for future SDK version
  • Custom machine learning architecture
  • AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point
In addition: 30 WGPs running specialised BVH8 traversal shaders vs 18 WGPs running BVH4 tranversal shaders on the standard PlayStation 5.
https://insider-gaming.com/playstation-5-pro-more-specs/
 
It was a very vague statement by AMD

At bare minimum whatever Sony does should be possibly in RDNA 4
& since RDNA 4 is only a slight optimization of RDNA 3, it should be possible to backport it to RDNA 3

So an AI enabled FSR 4 by end of this year that works on all RDNA 3 GPUs 🤔🤔
AMD in their most recent papers talk about building the BVH trees inside the infinity cache to offset the bottlenecks the RDNA architecture imposes. The consoles currently do not have an infinity cache.

Those trees are small 8-12MB the cache is more than capable of containing it.
 
The PS3 had an 802.11g Wi-Fi NIC built-in as well, and that was in 2006.
It's a nice feature, but even for most motherboards, including Mini-ITX, is kind of trivial for a feature in this era.
Tons of motherboards don't have wifi. And it's usually not included in the bottom barrel options people scrape together when they offer a PC spec, for PS5 price. See: a couple of posts on page 2. Or other threads on the topic.
 
Tons of motherboards don't have wifi. And it's usually not included in the bottom barrel options people scrape together when they offer a PC spec, for PS5 price. See: a couple of posts on page 2. Or other threads on the topic.
An 802.11ac (Wi-Fi 6) USB NIC goes for like $10 USD, I don't see what the big deal is?
 
An 802.11ac (Wi-Fi 6) USB NIC goes for like $10 USD, I don't see what the big deal is?
needs to be wifi 6 AX, and have bluetooth, as well.

Regardless of the cost, it does cost something to have those features. And should be included in any PC build attempting to match or be better than the PS5 experience, for about the same cost as a PS5.

When we are talking about a PS5 digital edition for $450 or a disc version for $500, cost to include wifi 6 AX and Bluetooth, is a non-trivial consideration on the cost of that PC matching the PS5 price.

If you can find a cheap option which has reliable wifi 6 AX and bluetooth, so be it. But again, bottom barrel products are offered as the "solution" and it wasn't even AX protocol. Let alone mentioning Bluetooth.

Generally speaking, reliability for wifi and bluetooth on PC, is only essentially guaranteed when using an intel product. Especially when it comes to Bluetooth.

You can get an AX200 kit for $20
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Wi-Fi-Gig-Desktop-AX200-NGWG-NV/dp/B085M7VPDP/ref=sr_1_3?crid=SLTTBP2SYS6R&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.buIPYoYdxlQjMEqs-DR_K7Q9TmFQ71t9IA3oBCAbj1vepcJkyDdnIjxmUYAOZMhKi2Xs5nBu1usUPtv-9qOwhM_UX1o-Thq1TK_V5VNkXpFG_9xNGUWhmnp-YWA-V4SjFvtWfzXu5nEKC1kLotgOoxIiyh3MvLFzYMVBqNdSXlYnCUQ8CHbCmGZ_BzMh2csPjHT9DQ4hiBUBBHhFpxtUfT1STVpARsNbmFe4tiBGRls.RqcurzmvfvTacsDKhPsvs8tD-QJkzEjCmrjgECs9dbQ&dib_tag=se&keywords=intel+wifi+6ax&qid=1710805058&sprefix=intel+wifi+6ax,aps,180&sr=8-3

But, that requires a decated M.2 E slot, for such a card. And a lot of mobos which don't include wifi/bluetooth already, don't include an M.2 E port. Asrock usually does, however.

and while the AX200 is at least 4 years old by now, I would deem that acceptable. However, now you have $430 to spend on that PC.

PCI card kits with newer chips tend to be about $10 more. So, you are probably better off trying to find a mobo which includes it. As the "wifi" versions of mobos which include Intel solutions, are usually $20 - $30 more, and it has its own dedicated M.2 E port. Rather than taking up a PCI slot and also potentially blocking some airflow to the GPU. *unless your mobo does happen to have an M.2 E port.
 
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Leak sourced to ReSpawn developer

I can mention that they've been doing testing with the dev kits on the ps5 pro - like I said, I dont know any of the specs, nothing like that, they didnt talk about any of that - just the results of them brute forcing their previously released games to see whats possible
So the one they mentioned to me - still in progress, may not be final, they're saying that this DLSS solution that they're using (which is this PSSR) is actually beyond their expectations. This is from EA, this is from developers at EA, Specifically from Respawn. And they did say they did say that they were able to get specifically Jedi Survivor to 4k 120 with absolutely 0 hiccups
So, Now this comes from them, not from me! It's not a "trust me bro", I'm reading it right here. "You can mention Star Wars Jedi Survivor is running at 4k 120" and he says you can mention it on your podcast (laughs) since it's already starting to leak anyway


View: https://www.youtube.com/live/0plQmVXzzT0?feature=shared&t=3003

Via reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeak..._wars_jedi_survivor_rumored_4k_120fps_on_ps5/
 
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