RTX 5xxx / RX 8xxx speculation

Strange bird said:
well, that's how it is, they have knowledge, maybe patents and so on
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See Intel & AMD are hardware companies

Nvidia is a software company (cuda / dlss / raytracing denoiser etc.) that is vertically integrated like apple

I believe Nvidia was the first with programmable/unified shaders & outsourcing to Taiwanese foundries/TSMC

So AMD & Intel would like to be in Nvdia's shoes but they have not done the work to get there. Basically Jensen Huang not only had a strategic vision but executed very well on it. It is rare that you have a founder so good at executing on strategies (again Apple comes to mind)
 
Marees said:
See Intel & AMD are hardware companies

Nvidia is a software company (cuda / dlss / raytracing denoiser etc.) that is vertically integrated like apple

I believe Nvidia was the first with programmable/unified shaders & outsourcing to Taiwanese foundries/TSMC

So AMD & Intel would like to be in Nvdia's shoes but they have not done the work to get there. Basically Jensen Huang not only had a strategic vision but executed very well on it. It is rare that you have a founder so good at executing on strategies (again Apple comes to mind)
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it always goes together, one cannot do without the other, as far as I know nvidia bought the main player for graphics cards in the past, something similar to how microsoft also bought some software.
 
Bigjohns97 said:
Same here, I just cannot get into PC gaming with top end video cards costing 2k, that used to be what the whole PC cost.

Good thing consoles are still reasonable.
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I’m the opposite of you.

My 4090/7800x3d/full surround sound SONOS/ 3 screen OLED setup cost me about ten thousand dollars, and I can maintain its peak performance simply by purchasing the top end GPU every two and a half years at roughly 2K a card.

But here’s the thing. For right or wrong… probably for wrong (lol)… gaming on this setup brings indescribable joy to my life. I love my work life… don’t get me wrong… but theses days, after work, when I’m adventuring in the forbidden west, or driving in the F1 championship, or hanging out in Night City, I’m so happy that I almost don’t want to leave. The experience of playing on a 55 inch OLED screen at max settings with super high, fluid frame rates just blows my mind.

I see other people buying expensive cars, or going on vacations that must cost at least what I paid for my computer…. those things just don’t work for me as well as gaming does. High end gaming, if it’s your main thing, is actually a cost friendly way to spend time outside of work.

It’s embarrassing when I explain this to people in the real world. I usually get weird looks. I’ve learned not to talk about it. LOL.
 
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That seem the most useless no info ever:
Nvidia Blackwell:
4 partners: RTX 50 is Q4 2024
4 partners: RTX 50 is Q1 2025 (CES)

When else could it be ? Would people just saying guess that exactly the result we would have.


AMD RDNA 4:
next year

This would be "big", if PS5 pro is this year we could understand why I guess. But if next year is true and gap filler not full stack is also true, that quite the slow pace for a 3 years in between launch, if AMD goes from November 2022 to say October 2026 with their biggest most performing GPU being the 7900xtx that would be quite the dark age.... even spring 2026....
 
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LukeTbk said:
That seem the most useless no info ever:
Nvidia Blackwell:
4 partners: RTX 50 is Q4 2024
4 partners: RTX 50 is Q1 2025 (CES)

When else could it be ? Would people just saying guess that exactly the result we would have.


AMD RDNA 4:
next year

This would be "big", if PS5 pro is this year we could understand why I guess. But if next year is true and gap filler not full stack is true, that quite the slow pace for a 3 years in between launch, if AMD goes from november 2022 to say october 2026 with their biggest most performing GPU being the 7900xtx that wuold be quite the dark age.... even spring 2026....
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6950XT was just a one time deal where AMD could somewhat compete with Nvidia's top end (if you don't count RT), now it looks like we're going back to pure Nvidia domination for the foreseeable future. I don't see RDNA5 holding a candle to Rubin either.
 
Marees said:
Rumours on launch time frames

👇
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What is AMD doing if RDNA 4 is a mid range only launch and next year? At this point, I hope battlemage beat them to the punch. Sad state of affairs if they can't get something decent out for the holidays. They kind of deserve to have the lunch eaten (what remains of it) by intel if Battlemage is good.
 
Decko87 said:
What is AMD doing if RDNA 4 is a mid range only launch and next year?
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They're betting that Nvidia is going to paper-launch their top-tier cards then sell all the glass as AI hardware for 10x the price, then flood the mid-range with cheap parts.

It's a redo of Polaris. That, plus their high-end APUs will have tons of people using AMD for the first time in years, or maybe even the first time ever. They need mindshare if they ever expect to get market share.
 
Axman said:
They're betting that Nvidia is going to paper-launch their top-tier cards then sell all the glass as AI hardware for 10x the price, then flood the mid-range with cheap parts.

It's a redo of Polaris. That, plus their high-end APUs will have tons of people using AMD for the first time in years, or maybe even the first time ever. They need mindshare if they ever expect to get market share.
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Yeah lets just keep on this downward cycle over and over again, surely it will work this time. They need to beat them out of the gate at the mid range.
 
GB203 seems to have gotten a downgrade recently: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/nvidia-rtx-5080-5090-spec-rumors/

May end up not being faster than AD102 found in the 4090 so the 5080 might actually be based on a further cut down GB202 in order to offer a decent performance uplift. If that's the case then we are kind of back to Ampere where both the 3080 and 3090 were based on the top GA102 die with the 3080 being more cut down. That would be mean there won't be such a huge gap between the xx80 and xx90 this time around like there is with the 4080 and 4090 making the 5080 possibly a more appealing buy. If the 5080 is only around 10% slower than a 5090 while costing $1200 instead of $1800 I would certainly go for that instead.
 
it is not leaker having been wrong, it is a never actually made GB203 getting a downgrade.....

Core is already a bit of a fuzzy concept on a GPU (how you decide how many you have), but GPCs ? and SMs..... we can imagine the actual numbers tell us nothing and depend on what they decide they contains...

Once the card exist, SKUs that use the same GPC, core, SMs their relative count tell us something obviously, but a new card in the abstract...
 
Axman said:
They're betting that Nvidia is going to paper-launch their top-tier cards then sell all the glass as AI hardware for 10x the price, then flood the mid-range with cheap parts.

It's a redo of Polaris. That, plus their high-end APUs will have tons of people using AMD for the first time in years, or maybe even the first time ever. They need mindshare if they ever expect to get market share.
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LOL. Poor Volta....I mean AMD. AMD is their own worst enemy.
 
Axman said:
They're betting that Nvidia is going to paper-launch their top-tier cards then sell all the glass as AI hardware for 10x the price, then flood the mid-range with cheap parts.

It's a redo of Polaris. That, plus their high-end APUs will have tons of people using AMD for the first time in years, or maybe even the first time ever. They need mindshare if they ever expect to get market share.
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If AMD do it right, it could work out ok for them.
Polaris was astoundingly popular and even now, a $100 NiB RX580 is an ok buy for super-budget gaming. Radeon 5000 was pretty popular too, lotta happy people with 5700/5700XT.
If AMD feels they cannot suitably compete at the top-end in a given GPU generation, then why not just stick to midrange instead of tempting another Vega64 moment. The vast majority of GPU buyers are in the $200-$500 price range.
 
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I still can't accept or digest that RDNA 4 will not release this year. Hope it is not true & hopefully by latest of Sept, AMD will release the new cards !!

Marees said:
I am glad the margins are the same, given that there was a brutal 50% year on year reduction in gaming revenue

I understand microsoft has stopped xbox chip purchases temporarily (until whenever the 6nm refresh launches I guess)
Sony also could have slowed until PS5 pro launches

That said I hope RDNA 4 launches this year. It should help them get some laptop wins (if that is possible)
Also with 7900 GRE discounting for as low as $510, the rdna 4 (navi 48) card which is size of a 6600 xt ahould give them better margins at $550, I guess

(I sincerely hope they learnt something from RDNA 2 oversupply & produced less of RDNA 3 chips !!!)




https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...sedives-48-not-expected-to-recover-until-2025
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Marees said:
Rumours on launch time frames

👇
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In case anyone is interested in the intel side of things, they too are targetting 2025 release for battlemage (I believe a top exec had mentioned long ago that drivers would be ready only by CES 2025 but lunar lake apus including MSI Claw 2 should release before discrete battlemage, I think)



The next generations of video cards from AMD and Intel will not appear until early 2025. Tweakers verified this with several sources during the Computex 2024 fair in Taipei. According to previous rumors, competitor Nvidia will soon release a new GeForce RTX 5000 series.

Officially, both manufacturers are not achieving their self-imposed goals for the new video cards. AMD's next generation of graphics cards, which uses the RDNA4 architecture and is likely to be marketed as the Radeon RX 8000 series, is expected to launch in 2024, according to the roadmap . Intel also said at the end of last year that the new generation of Arc video cards, better known under the code name Battlemage, would be released this year.

It is possible that AMD and Intel will announce their new GPUs just before the end of the year to meet the aforementioned deadlines, but an actual release at the CES fair in early January is more likely. In any case, availability will only start in the new year.

About the new AMD lineup, sources confirm to Tweakers that no real high-end models will appear in the RX 8000 series. Rumors already appeared last year that the Navi 4x GPU with the largest number of cores had been canceled. Shortly afterwards, the CEO of AMD's video card division left . The company would no longer aspire to compete with Nvidia's top models, but would mainly like to focus on the mainstream segment with cards such as the RX 7700 XT and RX 7800 XT.

Less is known about the next generation of Intel Arc video cards. Sources tell Tweakers that the GPUs in question can at least match the performance level of the GeForce RTX 4070. The top model of the current generation, the Arc A770, is slightly slower in Tweakers benchmarks than the GeForce RTX 4060 and Radeon RX 7600. That would mean a generation-on-generation performance gain of more than 60 percent, but still a long way off. are enough to make it difficult for Nvidia even in the top segment. You can read more about the improvements that make such a performance leap possible in our Intel Lunar Lake preview , because its IGPU is the first product that uses the Xe2 architecture that will also underpin the Battlemage video cards.




https://tweakers-net.translate.goog...html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB
 
Marees said:
In case anyone is interested in the intel side of things, they too are targetting 2025 release for battlemage (I believe a top exec had mentioned long ago that drivers would be ready only by CES 2025 but lunar lake apus including MSI Claw 2 should release before discrete battlemage, I think)



The next generations of video cards from AMD and Intel will not appear until early 2025. Tweakers verified this with several sources during the Computex 2024 fair in Taipei. According to previous rumors, competitor Nvidia will soon release a new GeForce RTX 5000 series.

Officially, both manufacturers are not achieving their self-imposed goals for the new video cards. AMD's next generation of graphics cards, which uses the RDNA4 architecture and is likely to be marketed as the Radeon RX 8000 series, is expected to launch in 2024, according to the roadmap . Intel also said at the end of last year that the new generation of Arc video cards, better known under the code name Battlemage, would be released this year.

It is possible that AMD and Intel will announce their new GPUs just before the end of the year to meet the aforementioned deadlines, but an actual release at the CES fair in early January is more likely. In any case, availability will only start in the new year.

About the new AMD lineup, sources confirm to Tweakers that no real high-end models will appear in the RX 8000 series. Rumors already appeared last year that the Navi 4x GPU with the largest number of cores had been canceled. Shortly afterwards, the CEO of AMD's video card division left . The company would no longer aspire to compete with Nvidia's top models, but would mainly like to focus on the mainstream segment with cards such as the RX 7700 XT and RX 7800 XT.

Less is known about the next generation of Intel Arc video cards. Sources tell Tweakers that the GPUs in question can at least match the performance level of the GeForce RTX 4070. The top model of the current generation, the Arc A770, is slightly slower in Tweakers benchmarks than the GeForce RTX 4060 and Radeon RX 7600. That would mean a generation-on-generation performance gain of more than 60 percent, but still a long way off. are enough to make it difficult for Nvidia even in the top segment. You can read more about the improvements that make such a performance leap possible in our Intel Lunar Lake preview , because its IGPU is the first product that uses the Xe2 architecture that will also underpin the Battlemage video cards.




https://tweakers-net.translate.goog...html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB
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B770 with 4070 perf but at ~A770 pricing would be preem. Regardless of the perf, I'm definitely planning on picking one up for XoC (currently holding several WR scores for A770 and I'm keen to keep that up ;-) but it would help my excitement level if it's actually good. I expect will be, for the segment.

Regarding release windows, I wonder if AMD / Intel are pushing RDNA4 / Battlemage to get closer to (but still potentially ahead of) midrange Blackwell releases. NV has a pattern of waiting a few months to send x60 / x70 boards which would be early-mid 25Q1 if 5090 / 5080 release mid-late 24Q4.
 
NattyKathy said:
Regarding release windows, I wonder if AMD / Intel are pushing RDNA4 / Battlemage to get closer to (but still potentially ahead of) midrange Blackwell releases. NV has a pattern of waiting a few months to send x60 / x70 boards which would be early-mid 25Q1 if 5090 / 5080 release mid-late 24Q4.
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I think Intel's hand is forced. Lunar Lake & specifically MSI Claw 2 users would be used to test drive beta drivers before battlemage's release. Driver work is much harder than hardware design after all.

I have no idea why AMD would delay RDNA 4. Can only think of 2 reasons below:

1. 7900 gre stocks are high. All other existing cards avoid a direct clash with RDNA 4 cards. Specifically Navi 33 < Navi 44 < Navi 32 < Navi 48 < 7900xt/xtx. But 7900 GRE would compete directly with Navi 48
2. Maybe they are working on AI upscaling FSR 4 (like in PS5 pro). If they release RDNA 4 after this, then it increases the value & sellability of their cards ??
 
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Marees said:
I think Intel's hand is forced. Lunar Lake & specifically MSI Claw 2 users would be used to test drive beta drivers before battlemage's release. Driver work is much harder than hardware design after all.
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Agreed, we saw how that went for Alchemist (not great initially, much better now). Being able to use the LNL handhelds as essentially driver testbeds makes sense- that's much more niche than midrange dGPUs and thus somewhat lower stakes.

Marees said:
I have no idea why AMD would delay RDNA 4. Can only think of 2 reasons below:

1. 7900 gre stocks are high. All other existing cards avoid a direct clash with RDNA 4 cards. Specifically Navi 33 < Navi 44 < Navi 32 < Navi 48 < 7900xt/xtx. But 7900 GRE would compete directly with Navi 48
2. Maybe they are working on AI upscaling FSR 4 (like in PS5 pro). If they release RDNA 4 after this, then it increases the value & sellability of their cards ??
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Both sound plausible. AMD is pretty stacked in the upper-midrange right now with 7800XT, 7900GRE, and discounted 7900XT. I can see why they'd be in no great rush to add another card right in the middle of that.
I sure hope that FSR4(?) will use NN upscaling, surely that won't be a PS5Pro exclusive!?
 
NattyKathy said:
I sure hope that FSR4(?) will use NN upscaling, surely that won't be a PS5Pro exclusive!?
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Rumor has it Sony is sharing their tech with AMD, and the main reason to believe this is that Sony put together an all-new pipeline for ray-tracing that's already been rolled into future RDNA hardware. What's good for Sony is good for AMD, and vice-versa.
 
Axman said:
Rumor has it Sony is sharing their tech with AMD, and the main reason to believe this is that Sony put together an all-new pipeline for ray-tracing that's already been rolled into future RDNA hardware. What's good for Sony is good for AMD, and vice-versa.
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Sounds like a win-win-win for Sony, RTG, and gamers!
 
Axman said:
Rumor has it Sony is sharing their tech with AMD, and the main reason to believe this is that Sony put together an all-new pipeline for ray-tracing that's already been rolled into future RDNA hardware. What's good for Sony is good for AMD, and vice-versa.
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Any links?
 
I've assumed that navi 48 will have raster (~5%) higher than 7900xt.
But if the memory proves to be a bottleneck then non-overclocked cards could be (~5%) slower than a 7900 xt

The naming might give a clue

If AMD goes for 8700 xtx for the top card then it could be slower than a 7900xt

Otoh, if AMD goes for 8800 xt for the top card then it could be faster than the 7900 xt
 
https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-rtx-50-blackwell-gb20x-gpu-specs-have-been-leaked

If this is true then this is probably the biggest gap between the highest and 2nd highest dies ever seen I think.

1718132855039.png
 
MistaSparkul said:
https://videocardz.com/newz/geforce-rtx-50-blackwell-gb20x-gpu-specs-have-been-leaked

If this is true then this is probably the biggest gap between the highest and 2nd highest dies ever seen I think.

View attachment 659261
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Seems like the highest end gets nice big performance jumps but the lower end on the product stack, the lower the performance jump. Was very apparently with the 4060, a less so with the 4070 but still notable. Looks like the 5080 will get similar treatment this time around. I suppose this is how Nvidia wants to move customers up the product stack. You wanted a 5080? Now you're going for a 5090. Wanted a 5070? Now you're going for a 5080 etc.
 
Take this with buckets of salt.

Apparently this is a roadmap leaked via a hack in a 3rd party who apparently did assembly work for AMD.

1000005180.png
 
Marees said:
Take this with buckets of salt.

Apparently this is a roadmap leaked via a hack in a 3rd party who apparently did assembly work for AMD.

View attachment 661290
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Real or no, nothing very surprising or new there. I have this feeling that the next flagship-class AMD card won't happen till a multi-GCD MCM solution is ready, and that it may be awhile.

MistaSparkul said:
Nah can't trust any AMD slides. Even the great MLID falls for it lmfao.
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Oh man I remember watching that exchange going down on Twitter. A true "oh noooo ain't no way" moment lol
 
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