Amd will always be 2nd place. Till they sell it off the graphic division and let them do there own thing. I am locked into Nvidia because i do 3d render work and no one supports amd. Maybe chiplets will change this. They are really silent right now...
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
RTX 3xxx performance speculation
- Thread starter Nebell
- Start date
MelonSplitter
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2006
- Messages
- 1,087
I heard the rumors about the 3080 20GB version but not the rumor about the 28th of Sept release date. Where did you find this?
![Zarathustra[H]](https://cdn.hardforum.com/data/avatars/m/9/9298.jpg?1707758471){kind=avatar}
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,822
AMD doesn't need to take the performance crown at the top end. They just need to get within swinging distance, to have a positive impact on the competition in the high end.
Exactly. The 2080 Ti is around 40% faster, on average, than the 5700 XT. The 2080 Ti is 3x the cost of the 5700 XT. If AMD can release a card 50% faster than the 5700 XT (which should be easy) for $400 - $500, which will be faster than the 2080 Ti, they'll have a winner and will sell them like hotcakes. That card would appeal to 90% of gamers.
Put me down as someone who couldn't give less crap about the performance crown anymore. Best performance in the 3-500 dollar range is more interesting. Starting to feel like this whole generation is going to be a disaster with capable consoles around the corner. I'm kind of considering parting out my PC for the time being.
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,822
I've never really cared much about performance crown.
What I do care about is getting acceptable framerates in the titles I play.
I want to be able to crank the quality settings and still get a minimum of 60fps at the native resolution of my screen, which right now happens to be 4k.
Being an early adopter of high resolution screens is what has driven me to buy top end expensive GPU's over the years. (First it was 2560x1600 in 2010, now it is 4k since 2015) I am seriously considering this 3090 depending on how it turns out when we have official info, but I am also hoping it is the last time I have to buy a top end GPU, as I can't imagine increasing resolution over 4k, now or ever.
Performance crown is just for bragging rights, and that's a silly thing to spend money on.
Completely agree, I would kind of like to move to a 4k screen at some point so I get what you're saying. I think the goal is to have more cards that run higher res this time around. We'll just have to wait and see.
Only a small percentage of GPU buyers are interested in buying the top cards (I'm not), but a lot more will still eagerly follow the battle that moves the leading edge of technology forward (I will).
For the companies having that top card is about a lot more than the sales revenue it generates.
A halo GPU part like this is a lot of good free marketing. Look at the last 5 year of CPU reviews, and I think you will find x80 ti NVidia GPU along for the free advertising...
See that for years and years and it sends the message that NVidia GPUs are tops.
I am sure AMD would love to replace NVida in that Halo spot, and that NVidia wants to keep it.
Auer
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2018
- Messages
- 1,972
[H] has left the building...
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,822
I don't see consoles as ever being an alternative to PC's, regardless of how capable they get.
I used exclusively PC's even back in the first gen Playstation era when the consoles had the graphical edge due to beating the PC platform to the punch when it came to 3d acceleration.
If you like shitty games developed for the lowest common denominator with terrible controls, locked down so they can't be tweaked, maybe consoles are for you
I’m 35 years old. Been gaming on a PC since 2001. I think I started with Q3A. I remember turning down all the settings to the lowest in order to achieve the mythical 120fps. It looked like crap but man oh man did I have a blast playing it. My fave mod was either The Freeze Tag or Rocket Arena. I had consoles through my gaming lifetime but as I gotten Older consoles are for something my younger relatives would play when they come for the holidays. The older ones would be playing on the PC or watch me play. I just like the versatility of a PC.
Whether it be playing games watching YouTube trolling Reddit/Facebook. The choices at hand are endless. I’ll still get a ps5 due to just wanting to have something new in the living room. But for gaming and entertainment purposes its PC for life.
That's a pretty deplorable outlook on some of the games that have out over the last 5-10 years on consoles. I generally respect your opinion, but this is a sophomoric argument. Also, if you want to talk about competitive gaming / controls, get to grand champ in rocket league with a mouse and keyboard then we can talk. The input device you use is case specific, it's no longer a debate really. You can always be a KB/M purist, that doesn't make KB/M objectively better. Kind of a pointless off topic argument anyway. I'll have my work PC and my laptop if I hang it up for a while to play God of War, Ghosts of Tsushima, TLoU 2, and so on.I don't see consoles as ever being an alternative to PC's, regardless of how capable they get.
I used exclusively PC's even back in the first gen Playstation era when the consoles had the graphical edge due to beating the PC platform to the punch when it came to 3d acceleration.
If you like shitty games developed for the lowest common denominator with terrible controls, locked down so they can't be tweaked, maybe consoles are for you
why is it going to be a disaster?...performance seems really high...only thing negative is probably pricing and maybe Big Navi can change that
although it seems performance is maybe too much for the vast majority of gamers...according to the Steam Hardware Survey (July 2020) 65% of people are still gaming at 1080p...6.4% at 1440p...so these new cards are mainly about introducing new technology (ray tracing)...if you're still gaming at 1080p Ampere etc is overkill
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,822
True, higher resolutions than 1080p are still something only a minority does, but so is spending $1,400 on a GPU, so it seems matched pretty well
Zarathustra[H]
Extremely [H]
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2000
- Messages
- 38,822
Seems like a strong word, but ok.
I have just yet to see any game on console that is not on PC I have had any interest in playing, and any game that exists on both platforms that I would rather play on console.
In the last 25 years I have played two categories of games exclusively. First person titles (shooters or not) and top down view strategy titles. Neither of these would be something I think would lend themselves to a controller.
3rd person games, fighting games, platform games or sports games (real or imagined like Rocket League) just don't appeal to me in the slightest. I'd rather not play at all.
I will agree with you though. Console titles have improved. There was a time there when the overall complexity of titles was going through the tubes, presumably to appeal to the kids on consoles. Things have improved some since then, but still, all of my favorite titles have been PC exclusives, or at least titles developed for PC first and later ported to other platforms
It's not even a matter of graphics. It's a matter of more complex gameplay, in depth and interesting stories, etc. Console titles have improved, and there are some notable exceptions to the above, but in general games developed with the console on mind tend to just feel more shallow and dumb.
It's just a crying shame that there re fewer and fewer PC exclusives out there as time goes on. I feel like as soon as a developer develops with the console in mind, (either exclusively for, or for multiplatform) they start making design choices that dilute the depth and complexity of the experience.
To illustrate what I mean, compare Civilization IV Beyond the Sword, a beautifully complex PC exclusive title (well, it was ported to the Mac too I think) to Civilization Revolution, the version of the game targeted at console players. It's like they redesigned the entire thing so that it would appeal to the borderline developmentally disabled...
Lowest common denominator is for PC's. For consoles it's basically which ever is selling the most. And because of consoles they are the lowest common denominator they set quite a bit for what happens on the PCI don't see consoles as ever being an alternative to PC's, regardless of how capable they get.
I used exclusively PC's even back in the first gen Playstation era when the consoles had the graphical edge due to beating the PC platform to the punch when it came to 3d acceleration.
If you like shitty games developed for the lowest common denominator with terrible controls, locked down so they can't be tweaked, maybe consoles are for you
The disaster comes from an alternate reality. Allow me to elaborate...
It's a "disaster" because the cards cost more than he wants to spend and if he doesn't want to spend that much, virtually nobody is going to want to spend that much, which means paltry sales with a bunch of overstock nobody wants, which equates to a disastrous next gen launch.
"Capable Consoles"
The next generation of consoles will be excellent for the development of PC gaming; it's going to give developers a platform to begin expanding/optimizing games with a fusion of RT and Rasterization. Based on the demos we've seen thus far, the next generation of consoles will be a generous leap over previous gen. HOWEVER, PC hardware will still be far more powerful. The impressive PS5 demos we've seen have been locked @ 30 fps. That's fine for those games, but as a PC enthusiast that has tasted 4k120 on an OLED screen, 4k30 seems pathetic.
I'm looking forward to the RTX 3090 because it may be the first card that truly has the power to realize this giant TV/monitor's potential. Full 10-bit, 4:4:4 4k/120hz GSYNC + HDR at close to max settings just sounds.... glorious. $300-500 won't be able to do that for years... not even close. That doesn't mean I don't have the money set aside to purchase an Xbox Series X and PS5 when they release. But if anyone here thinks that the next generation of consoles will be able to get even close to a 350-watt behemoth of a GPU... not a chance. Based on what I've read so far, the next generation of GPUs from Nvidia and AMD will be transformative.
These will be the first truly 4k120 ready GPUs, and I, for one, cannot wait.
Nvidia seems to be trying to fix their pricing issue with Ampere by offering a much more diverse lineup of cards in the first month or 2 across different prices...2080 10GB, 2080 20GB, 1070 16GB, 1070 8GB etc
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 12,688
VRAM market segmentation is the worst because when you run out, the GPU is crippled. Unlike a typical performance metric where you may have to turn down some graphics settings to reach 60fps or whatever, you run out of VRAM and it's game over.
This type of segment is basically asking consumers to gamble on how much GPU potential they think they will need in the next few yeaes. It's ridiculous, we aren't psychics. Most people don't even know enough about VRAM to make this type of buying decision.
It's even more egregious this time because it looks like capacity will vary from 6 to 24 GB.
This type of segment is basically asking consumers to gamble on how much GPU potential they think they will need in the next few yeaes. It's ridiculous, we aren't psychics. Most people don't even know enough about VRAM to make this type of buying decision.
It's even more egregious this time because it looks like capacity will vary from 6 to 24 GB.
So taste is the main indicator of controller here, and I agree with a lot of what you said, pretty much all of it actually. I play the gamut really, I love stuff like Civ and FPS games, but I also like stuff like Fable, Mario Galaxy, Rocket League, Braid, etc. Your genre is pretty narrow, but I respect it (my favorite games are RTS).
You are making mountains out of molehills here. Turn down a couple of minor settings and 8GB will likely be good for another 5 years.
If you feel you must max out every setting, and worry about VRAM is going to keep you up at night, then by all means spend some extra money for an option with more VRAM.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 14,675
And more RAM period...
Honestly, the fact that AMD is quite instead of trumpeting how they will plaster the floor with Jensen's jacket makes me think they could just have something this time.
I'mma wait for both to do their announcements before hoping on something.
I'mma wait for both to do their announcements before hoping on something.
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 12,688
Looks like Nvidia is dropping Windows 7 driver support so I'll finally have to upgrade...
It’s no worse than the current situation where we have no choice but to hope for the best. It’s not like the existence of a 24gb card will have any impact on minimum requirements for the next 7-8 years.
I would love it if developers start pushing geometry and texture detail so hard that 12GB is required for most games but the reality is that 8GB will be just fine for the vast majority of people for the next 5 years.
I feel the opposite. A quiet AMD historically hasn't been met with an awesome product launch.
Nvidia knows how to fight, fight good at that. The 3080 and 3090 are GA102. An in-between card, between the supposed 5249 cuda core 3090 and 4352 cuda core 3080 looks most likely, which I would think would be called 3080 Super. Performance is more than just numbers, performance using DLSS and any enhancements. New abilities using Tensor cores and so on. I don't think we know enough yet.
I suspect AMD will tune frequencies on their RNDA 2 GPUs for the tiers they want to compete in, seeing what Nvidia actually has. I also think Lisa Sue will push for top performance card as well but business wise market share will need to effectively hit the mobile market to get the numbers up, which if their efficiency is better than Nvidia that may happen. Performance/w is very much key there.
I definitely don't like a 3 slot performance card which is pushed maybe already to it's limits at 350w but we don't know that yet. Dumping that heat and especially any OC wattage right into your case. I hope AMD if they push their hardware, that they use an AIO like before (HBM really helps here in making the cooling more simple) which gets the heat outside the case plus was very effective in the Vega setup.
There are a lot of performance evaluations that can be all over the place between AMD and Nvidia, Rasterization, RT, Added performance enhancing features like DLSS, Fidelity FX (any new enhancements?), machine learning ability/software. If AMD updates Pro-Render to use the enhance RT capability could get some to go that direction.
I expect more AI performance enhancements from Nvidia such as texture processing, using lower resolution, fast loading, less memory but equal or better quality. Microsoft did this already with ML with textures. Too many things to really guess at so Tuesday I hope we see some big stuff information.
I suspect AMD will tune frequencies on their RNDA 2 GPUs for the tiers they want to compete in, seeing what Nvidia actually has. I also think Lisa Sue will push for top performance card as well but business wise market share will need to effectively hit the mobile market to get the numbers up, which if their efficiency is better than Nvidia that may happen. Performance/w is very much key there.
I definitely don't like a 3 slot performance card which is pushed maybe already to it's limits at 350w but we don't know that yet. Dumping that heat and especially any OC wattage right into your case. I hope AMD if they push their hardware, that they use an AIO like before (HBM really helps here in making the cooling more simple) which gets the heat outside the case plus was very effective in the Vega setup.
There are a lot of performance evaluations that can be all over the place between AMD and Nvidia, Rasterization, RT, Added performance enhancing features like DLSS, Fidelity FX (any new enhancements?), machine learning ability/software. If AMD updates Pro-Render to use the enhance RT capability could get some to go that direction.
I expect more AI performance enhancements from Nvidia such as texture processing, using lower resolution, fast loading, less memory but equal or better quality. Microsoft did this already with ML with textures. Too many things to really guess at so Tuesday I hope we see some big stuff information.
They were pretty quiet with Ryzen. That crap came out of no where in terms of performance. For the last 3 years AMD has been under promising and over delivering.
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 12,688
I didn't realize the 3080 was GA102 until today. Very interesting.
harmattan
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,129
One of the bases of the speculation that 3080 and 3090 are on 7nm, while 3070 and below are 8nm.
I'm squarely in the $600-800 camp so will likely be waiting to see what AMD has, but will be very interesting seeing the performance on the entire 30xx line up tomorrow. Actually, when do NDAs end... Tomorrow, or will it be like Turing where preorders can be done through nV, reviews don't appear until they are available for purchase?
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 12,688
The 3080 and 3090 have to be similar perf right? Like 15% gap. It's usually pretty small on the same GPU.
If it comes in at $700-$800 I will probably grab one. Not much room for a Ti/Super.
If it comes in at $700-$800 I will probably grab one. Not much room for a Ti/Super.
TaintedSquirrel
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2013
- Messages
- 12,688
Last edited:
So much videos with explanations (before official anonce) from Nvidia to explaing how nice and "cool" will be their 7nm cards with 350W TDP (how much with overclock ? )
Cards will be on market so fast after anonce, AiB cards too...
Are they in "panic mod" ?
What will offer Big Navi that can to "scare" Nvidia so much ?
)Cards will be on market so fast after anonce, AiB cards too...
Are they in "panic mod" ?
What will offer Big Navi that can to "scare" Nvidia so much ?
I believe I had heard it from Moore's Law you tube channel. It was the video where he was talking about the yield counts and said the 3090 will be extremely low. I will look for it.
Auer
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2018
- Messages
- 1,972
The "gpu" image is of poor quality with a lot of artifacts, so could be just about any kind of hack job.
Could be real, though with the actual reveal tomorrow, there isn't much in that.
Nenu
[H]ardened
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Messages
- 20,315
I expect the difference between them to be much larger, reflected by the prices. I expect at least 25%, probably a bit more.
And later there is sure to be a 3080ti or 3080s which needs a large enough performance space to squeeze into.
This is born of the assumption 3080 will be around $800 and the 3090 $1400 (too high for me).
A surprise to the better is always welcome.
20% more performance, is the reasonable assumption. 3090 has about 20% more performance resources (CUDA, Memory Bandwidth).
I think a big part of the reason 3090 has 24GB of RAM is to make the price seem more reasonable. Since you are going to pay a LOT more than 20% more money for that 20% more performance.
RJ1892
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2014
- Messages
- 1,347
Is there any explaination to why these cards have such a high TDP (320-350w) in these predicted specs? I haven't been following the 3XXX series that closely.