Robots Keep the Homeless Away in San Francisco

Azphira said:
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Someone did this in San Francisco?

Wait what?
 
HorseproofBacon said:
I certainly care more about pets than homeless vagrants. I might agree with you if homeless people did no harm, cleaned up after themselves, and were not prone to criminal activity, but homeless people are not harmless. They leave trash everywhere, piss and shit all over the place, and they approach you begging for handouts and get insulted when you refuse. Wtf gives them the right to approach me begging for money and then get pissy when I refuse? Some are on the streets due to mental problems, but most are either druggies, alchoholics, or people who just don't want to work. The homeless people that genuinely want help to stand on their own two feet will be able to find it, but they have to want to help themselves. Most apparently don't. Fine, they made their choices but leave me out of it.
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The force is strong with you!
 
HorseproofBacon said:
All welfare programs should stop, but that's another topic.

To think that giving a meal to somebody is going to change their life is naive. Real life isn't the movies, they aren't going to suddenly pick themselves up off the streets and change their ways just because you gave them a cheeseburger. If you truly want to help, then by all means do it, but don't chastise those that have no interest in doing so. These people are fully grown and are not our problem, and there is no reasonable expectation that they should be my problem.
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You are a pretty callous guy. Sorry you feel that way. Good luck to you in the future.
 
SomeoneElse said:
You are a pretty callous guy. Sorry you feel that way. Good luck to you in the future.
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No, I'm a realist. A person that sees reality and knows better than to believe progressive stories and feel good ways. The world is not all puppy dogs and flowers, the world is hard. Not everybody makes good decisions in their lives and to try and help them all is a waste of time (unless it's your paying job to do so). You have no right to expect me or anybody else to help a stranger. If we want to help, great. If not, great. There is no right or wrong in choosing not to help somebody who clearly doesn't want it. Again, how do you help people that don't want it? Why try? For what benefit does it help?

Life isn't a movie. Perhaps one day, you'll wake up like I did and realize it.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
No, I'm a realist. A person that sees reality and knows better than to believe progressive stories and feel good ways. The world is not all puppy dogs and flowers, the world is hard. Not everybody makes good decisions in their lives and to try and help them all is a waste of time (unless it's your paying job to do so). You have no right to expect me or anybody else to help a stranger. If we want to help, great. If not, great. There is no right or wrong in choosing not to help somebody who clearly doesn't want it. Again, how do you help people that don't want it? Why try? For what benefit does it help?

Life isn't a movie. Perhaps one day, you'll wake up like I did and realize it.
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Bro, I'm not the one living in a movie. I just actually have some semblance of compassion. I just walk away from those who don't want help i just don't stop trying to help others. Seems like to me you like to judge someone before you even know who they are or where they come from. Obviously you have judged me based on the very limited conversation we have had on a random internet site. I don't expect you to do anything but just sad that you have a view of F the world. Maybe you might need some help of your own....but then again you probably don't want that do you?
 
tetris42 said:
Well we're certainly trying to blur the line at least.
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Only if you make the assumption that giving them something is helping them, and forget that real long term assistance must be about getting them back into the saddle of self sufficiency and that some require motivation and some seem beyond motivating.

You remember that old saying, "Give a man a fish you feed him for a day, but teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life"?

When the dude sells the pole you bought, gave him, and taught him to use, for a carton of smokes, what is it that you can do for him?
 
Dekoth-E- said:
It boggles my mind that anyone would find it ok to simply run the homeless off instead of you know..being a decent fucking human and helping them.
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They don't want help. I'm guessing you've never seen or talked with one lol.
 
runudownquick said:
Ah yes, every homeless person is a drug addict. Haven't heard this one for a while. /s
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SF is probably different since they openly cater to homeless, but many cities have adequate facilities and social programs to help... most are under capacity. Simply put, a vast many choose to be homeless.
 
Verge said:
SF is probably different since they openly cater to homeless, but many cities have adequate facilities and social programs to help... most are under capacity. Simply put, a vast many choose to be homeless.
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Most shelters require that you be sober.

And isn't California going through a Hepatitis outbreak because of this?
 
"Let's invest in expensive automata to fix the symptoms of a our homeless problem, instead of putting that money into solving the homeless problem. It's not like study after study has shown that long run it's not only cheaper to care for the homeless, but it's also more humane and compassionate, and better for society and the economy."

Oh, wait...
 
People forget that a lot of the work done in the Bay area actually accelerates the homeless issue by automating jobs, and suppressing worker's pay. It's great that they have all these cool new technologies they create, but at some point, society needs to deal with the impact of the changes those new technologies bring.
 
Wow, I'm flabbergasted that so many people here don't seem to understand the appropriate response to panhandlers and the homeless. You should almost never give anything to panhandlers in the street, you are enabling the problem by doing so. To donate or make a difference, you should be donating your time, helping provide job skills to people, or donating to other proactive initiatives and organizations that have controls to limit abuse the system. You might feel compassion giving your money away in a parking lot just because someone asks, You might feel compassionate failing to enforce loitering and littering laws. While you yourself might feel good and compassionate aboutBut that isn't truly going to help anyone in the long run. True compassion is enacting true change, not enabling poor behaviors. You aren't doing anyone any favors by enabling (and essentially encouraging) improper societal behavior. Homelessness is a complicated issue, but blind giving actually cause more harm than targeted thoughtful efforts that truly encourage improvement, and does not enable poor behavior.
 
cbutters said:
Wow, I'm flabbergasted that so many people here don't seem to understand the appropriate response to panhandlers and the homeless. You should almost never give anything to panhandlers in the street, you are enabling the problem by doing so. To donate or make a difference, you should be donating your time, helping provide job skills to people, or donating to other proactive initiatives and organizations that have controls to limit abuse the system. You might feel compassion giving your money away in a parking lot just because someone asks, You might feel compassionate failing to enforce loitering and littering laws. While you yourself might feel good and compassionate aboutBut that isn't truly going to help anyone in the long run. True compassion is enacting true change, not enabling poor behaviors. You aren't doing anyone any favors by enabling (and essentially encouraging) improper societal behavior. Homelessness is a complicated issue, but blind giving actually cause more harm than targeted thoughtful efforts that truly encourage improvement, and does not enable poor behavior.
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Alot of people assume that these homeless people are panhandling. It doesn't mention that in article, i know that giving money to a guy that says i need money is not right but i'm referring to the issue as a whole. Giving a guy some food who isn't asking for it could make a difference. You just can't turn you back on it doesn't do any good either. It is a very complicated issue but in the same respect not helping ANYONE that's a bigger problem in it self.
 
I'll treat you like a decent human being if you act like a decent human being, and not some wild animal in a zoo. Just because you're homeless doesn't mean you need to act like an uncivilized beast. A sense of personal dignity is something you have or you don't—it doesn't come with a job or home (possessing the latter makes attaining the former much easier.)
 
SomeoneElse said:
Bro, I'm not the one living in a movie. I just actually have some semblance of compassion. I just walk away from those who don't want help i just don't stop trying to help others. Seems like to me you like to judge someone before you even know who they are or where they come from. Obviously you have judged me based on the very limited conversation we have had on a random internet site. I don't expect you to do anything but just sad that you have a view of F the world. Maybe you might need some help of your own....but then again you probably don't want that do you?
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Don't really need any help. I'm self sufficient and work hard. I don't make a ton, but I'm still surviving and putting in the effort. Far more than those vagrants on the streets are doing. I have no respect for parasites to society and no matter how many times YOU try to sugar coat it, they are the very definition of parasites; draining resources and giving nothing back to society. Truth is if they vanished right now there would be a noticeable improvement. As others have pointed out to you, most of these are not people down on their luck, they are people who want to be hand fed for the rest of their lives. They are ungrateful, demanding, completely entitled, and often even dangerous. By feeding them you are doing the same thing as feeding a wild animal, only encouraging them to not take care of themselves.

You just don't get it, you bleeding hearts might mean well but you do more damage than the person who leaves them completely alone and makes them fend for themselves and you don't even realize it, might not have the capability to either.
 
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cbutters said:
Wow, I'm flabbergasted that so many people here don't seem to understand the appropriate response to panhandlers and the homeless. You should almost never give anything to panhandlers in the street, you are enabling the problem by doing so. To donate or make a difference, you should be donating your time, helping provide job skills to people, or donating to other proactive initiatives and organizations that have controls to limit abuse the system. You might feel compassion giving your money away in a parking lot just because someone asks, You might feel compassionate failing to enforce loitering and littering laws. While you yourself might feel good and compassionate aboutBut that isn't truly going to help anyone in the long run. True compassion is enacting true change, not enabling poor behaviors. You aren't doing anyone any favors by enabling (and essentially encouraging) improper societal behavior. Homelessness is a complicated issue, but blind giving actually cause more harm than targeted thoughtful efforts that truly encourage improvement, and does not enable poor behavior.
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You're simultaneously expressing the complexity of the issue and pretending like it's simple. The Bay area has a complicated relationship with homelessness. In some cases, it's kind of the direct cause, where it's driving up prices causing evictions or impacting wages. Fun thread discussing some of this.
I think you also forget that these people are human, and have immediate needs and desires. Giving them something like food directly is far more efficient than any charity will ever be. Giving them a cigarette or even money for booze helps some take the edge off a very stressful situation. Obviously, in many cases, alcohol is abused. But the money in their hand gives them a sense of agency and control that may have been taken away from them, and you have no idea how they will use it. It might go to their family, or to another more needy person. Interacting with them directly, instead of through organizations, can help them understand that individual people do care about them - they aren't relegated only to dealing with organizations that may treat them like a number (especially government programs!) Try having a conversation with some of them, sometime. It can go a long way, both for them and for you, to improve the situation. You're making a lot of assumptions about "blind giving" that are based on false narratives peddled by media, and the failure to understand that they are people, just like you. This could be many of us in a month or a year, depending on circumstances. Have compassion, and recognize there are many layers to this problem.
 
tempertantrum said:
"Let's invest in expensive automata to fix the symptoms of a our homeless problem, instead of putting that money into solving the homeless problem. It's not like study after study has shown that long run it's not only cheaper to care for the homeless, but it's also more humane and compassionate, and better for society and the economy."

Oh, wait...
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That's the think people say they care but almost no one really cares. They toss a dollars towards a pan handler just make themselves feel good. Just like people like volunteer at soup kitchen olny during the holiday season but don't think twice during the rest of the year. You know when these places actually need help. I refuse to give any .one to this people. Me and a friend we're standing in a line at a food court when this woman came up and ask for some money for food. I said come up with us and order what you want. After few minutes we get up to order she backs off and says that see really just wanted the money so she can go get drugs. I was ok have fun and turned away from her.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
I'll treat you like a decent human being if you act like a decent human being, and not some wild animal in a zoo. Just because you're homeless doesn't mean you need to act like an uncivilized beast. A sense of personal dignity is something you have or you don't—it doesn't come with a job or home (possessing the latter makes attaining the former much easier.)
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Decent human beings lose their jobs and homes, and are treated like wild animal all the time. Many have psychological or emotional issues, often caused by "civilization." The dignity is often beaten out of them by the very institutions that are supposed to help. They are treated like a number. They are treated like a failure. They are treated like they are meaningless. No one can withstand that forever, and the circumstances in which people find themselves homeless are often out of their control, and last a long time. I think it's inhuman and lacking perspective to simply assume someone one the street is an uncivilized beast. Most of them are just unlucky. Try talking to some. Find out their stories. Get perspective.
 
vegeta535 said:
That's the think people say they care but almost no one really cares. They toss a dollars towards a pan handler just make themselves feel good. Just like people like volunteer at soup kitchen olny during the holiday season but don't think twice during the rest of the year. You know when these places actually need help. I refuse to give any .one to this people. Me and a friend we're standing in a line at a food court when this woman came up and ask for some money for food. I said come up with us and order what you want. After few minutes we get up to order she backs off and says that see really just wanted the money so she can go get drugs. I was ok have fun and turned away from her.
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I've had similar things happen, usually for booze or cigarettes. But then assuming they are all like that isn't helpful, either. As you say, no one seems to really care, but really care means you have to treat them like people, not just charity cases.
 
HorseproofBacon said:
Don't really need any help. I'm self sufficient and work hard. I don't make a ton, but I'm still surviving and putting in the effort. Far more than those vagrants on the streets are doing. I have no respect for parasites to society and no matter how many times YOU try to sugar coat it, they are the very definition of parasites; draining resources and giving nothing back to society. Truth is if they vanished right now there would be a noticeable improvement. As others have pointed out to you, most of these are not people down on their luck, they are people who want to be hand fed for the rest of their lives. They are ungrateful, demanding, and completely entitled. By feeding them you are doing the same thing as feeding a wild animal, only encouraging them to not take care of themselves.

You just don't get it, you bleeding hearts might mean well but you do more damage than the person who leaves them completely alone and makes them fend for themselves and you don't even realize it, might not have the capability to either.
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I don't have the capability to be completely uncompassionate that part is true. You lack the capability to be compassionate. That's where we come to a crossroads. You seem to think I go around handing out money and food to every homeless person I see which is definitely not the case.
Just to clarify something for you, i'm not liberal and pretty much despise them, but I still try to at least help people homeless or not. Don't judge the book by its cover.
 
Verge said:
They don't want help. I'm guessing you've never seen or talked with one lol.
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Not every person on the street is a deadbeat who is happy to be there. Your guess would be equal parts ignorant and wrong. I've seen and helped more than a few homeless and sure there are plenty of deadbeats but there are far more people who are just in a terrible spot.
 
SomeoneElse said:
I don't have the capability to be completely uncompassionate that part is true. You lack the capability to be compassionate. That's where we come to a crossroads. You seem to think I go around handing out money and food to every homeless person I see which is definitely not the case.
Just to clarify something for you, i'm not liberal and pretty much despise them, but I still try to at least help people homeless or not. Don't judge the book by its cover.
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Never claimed you were a liberal, but a bleeding heart doesn't have an ideology. I only help people who genuinely want to be helped and by help, I mean help them stand on their own two feet. I can help them search for a job which is really the only way to do it. Where they work doesn't matter, so long as they can support themselves. I will not feed them however, as I am keenly aware of the fact it does not help them. They need to be taught to feed themselves, it's the only way. That is the true compassion.

For example; I frequently get people coming into the business that I work at asking if we are hiring. Unfortunately for them, we hire through agencies only so I have to tell them that. However, I always feel a bit sorry for that person because they are genuinely trying to help themselves by looking for work. That person I usually try to give tips on businesses I am aware of that might hire them, even for an entry level spot. I can respect an unemployed person trying to look for work. I do not respect parasites.
 
SomeoneElse said:
I don't have the capability to be completely uncompassionate that part is true. You lack the capability to be compassionate. That's where we come to a crossroads. You seem to think I go around handing out money and food to every homeless person I see which is definitely not the case.
Just to clarify something for you, i'm not liberal and pretty much despise them, but I still try to at least help people homeless or not. Don't judge the book by its cover.
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I'm unabashedly a liberal, but I think this is something we can agree on. Acting with compassion and recognizing the complexity of a situation seems like something the world needs more of. SomeoneElse sounds like they've never met a homeless person, let along looked into the complex reasons why many are homeless, nor have they realized that failure to take care of these people is more expensive in the long run. Their idea of literally vanishing them from the face of the Earth is... a sick combination of sociopathic and psychopathic.
 
tempertantrum said:
I'm unabashedly a liberal, but I think this is something we can agree on. Acting with compassion and recognizing the complexity of a situation seems like something the world needs more of. SomeoneElse sounds like they've never met a homeless person, let along looked into the complex reasons why many are homeless, nor have they realized that failure to take care of these people is more expensive in the long run. Their idea of literally vanishing them from the face of the Earth is... a sick combination of sociopathic and psychopathic.
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Apparently you haven't read any of my previous posts in this thread......or you typed my name in the reply by accident.....
 
The robots are ALMOST the right solution. But instead of roaming about, the robots should be picking up the needles, cleaning up the human waste and playing the same crappy christmas song over and over again loudly while doing its cleaning. Homeless problem solved.
 
How about we give them jobs instead? Pick up trash, paint grafitti, pull weeds on the freeway, anything. They get a basic wage and a spot in low-income housing as long as they keep working. If they have ambition they can work themselves up from there.
 
ironforge said:
How about we give them jobs instead? Pick up trash, paint grafitti, pull weeds on the freeway, anything. They get a basic wage and a spot in low-income housing as long as they keep working. If they have ambition they can work themselves up from there.
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Because that + mental health treatment for the ones that are disturbed would actually be a solution. Can't have that.
 
That's nice, shun the homeless & take in illegals by the thousands. Tells you were their priorities lie. Maybe mother nature will show them what its like to be homeless.
 
Comixbooks said:
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https://bossip.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/spikes6.jpg?w=700

spike strips probably the most inhumane.
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I think you mean cost effective.

Verge said:
SF is probably different since they openly cater to homeless, but many cities have adequate facilities and social programs to help... most are under capacity. Simply put, a vast many choose to be homeless.
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Back home, my town has a simple policy if someone starts panhandling. They either get a trip to the shelter for food/shelter/rehab/literally whatever they need, or they get dropped off outside of town.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. Chose to shit on sidewalks and make a public health hazard and leave dirty needles where they can injure others or let society help you. This article and most comments are about the first group, the crying seems to be about the second, it's sad how little comprehension some individuals have.

And homeboy just had a complete meltdown and disappeared, wtf is that shit? As much as his virtue signaling and constant reminders that I'm not in country for Christmas, I hope the dude's still alive. Personally, I would have whacked the cult leader, but I've got issues. :D
 
Montu said:
The SPCA in San Francisco noticed that many homeless were setting up encampments around their campus and the area was being contaminated with used needles and other refuse. In order to do something about this they put security robots to work that patroled the area and notified authorities if homeless were in the area. As a result the litter and tent problems began to abate. However, do-gooders in the area complained to City Hall and the SPCA has to stop for the moment until they get permission to do this. It just boggles my mind that some people would rather have used needles, tents, and human waste all over the place instead of allowing a simple little bot to roam around the campus preventing this.
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...or maybe people don't like living in 1984?
Also, if this is allowed, where do you draw the line?
 
Extra-Titanian said:
Back home, my town has a simple policy if someone starts panhandling. They either get a trip to the shelter for food/shelter/rehab/literally whatever they need, or they get dropped off outside of town.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about that.
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I think it depends a lot on the region. In concept, sure, that sounds fine. In practice, uh, not always:

Two stabbed, one fatally, in knife battle at Harlem homeless shelter

Man charged with murder in homeless shelter stabbing

Cops looking for killer of 55-year-old homeless man whose throat was slit in Manhattan shelter

NYC homeless would rather risk the street than hellish shelter system
 
 
Extra-Titanian said:
I think you mean cost effective.



Back home, my town has a simple policy if someone starts panhandling. They either get a trip to the shelter for food/shelter/rehab/literally whatever they need, or they get dropped off outside of town.

I don't get what's so hard to understand about that. Chose to shit on sidewalks and make a public health hazard and leave dirty needles where they can injure others or let society help you. This article and most comments are about the first group, the crying seems to be about the second, it's sad how little comprehension some individuals have.

And homeboy just had a complete meltdown and disappeared, wtf is that shit? As much as his virtue signaling and constant reminders that I'm not in country for Christmas, I hope the dude's still alive. Personally, I would have whacked the cult leader, but I've got issues. :D
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Supreme Court set a precedent, you can't do that anymore.
 
ZodaEX said:
Dude people die literally everywhere. People even die inside of freaking hospitals.
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Well yeah, though there's this subtle distinction between dying v. murdered by someone next to you with a knife.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
It boggles my mind that anyone would find it ok to simply run the homeless off instead of you know..being a decent fucking human and helping them.
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Because SF is handling a significant portion of the homeless problem for the country. We cycle thousands of people off the street per year, and thousands more take their place. Then for those who are homeless due to severe mental illness, there isn't really a system in place to deal with them outside of prison nowadays, which isn't a good place either. So the option is either get them jailed or let them suffer on the street; housing alone isn't sufficient for them.

It's tough, I don't have the answers, it's really depressing to see the condition of people on the sidewalk despite all the money being spent on it. Currently $300M/year is spent on it.
 
ironforge said:
How about we give them jobs instead? Pick up trash, paint grafitti, pull weeds on the freeway, anything. They get a basic wage and a spot in low-income housing as long as they keep working. If they have ambition they can work themselves up from there.
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Don't have the facts in front of me, but I think a significant number of homeless are homeless because they don't want to work. Not necessarily lazy, just unable to deal with the responsibility of having a job. Probably some that are too lazy to work, we have employees that barely clear that hurdle.
 
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