Rebuilding old systems, gpu compatibility? Nforce4 (socket939) and x58

phantommaggot

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So, title says, im pulling my 939 system out of the closet and trying to find a way to make it work.
I've also gotten. My hands on a MSI x58m.

I'd love to max out the 939 system and run older games on it. But I'm pretty sure there's a point where new GPUs aren't comaptible. I just don't know where the cut off is.

Same for x58.. I was considering grabbing a 1650 low profile for that setup if things work out.
 

CAD4466HK

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The newest GPU that I've run on a 939 mobo was SLI'ed 9800GTX's with a 4200+.
AM2+ was a GTX570 and a R9 270 with a Athlon X2 7750, both GPU's were extremely CPU bottlenecked.

You can head over to the x58 thread in the Intel forum and see peeps running 1080ti's with that platform.
 

slavie

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Why won't a newer GPU run? PCI-E is backwards compatible, you'll most likely need a new PSU as well. Drivers are another issue - I don't think there are WinXP drivers for an RTX 3090. Then again, I doubt you're going to run your $3000 RTX 3090 in a S939 system.
Which OS? I'd bet that's going to limit you more than anything else.
On S939, PCI-E or AGP? If AGP, Radeon 3850 or Radeon 4670 are the top cards. They're in the $150 neighborhood on eBay though. You're not the only one with a lust for a retro rig ;)
1650 is Win7+ only.
 

toast0

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If your older system doesn't do UEFI, I think that can be an issue with some newer graphics cards without support for traditional PC BIOS booting. That seems to be a gfx board cost cutting measure and not a gfx chip limitation from my brief look around.
 

phantommaggot

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My board is the Asus a8n32 sli. (Anyone know if I can make this boot from USB?)
PCI-E for gpus.
Has a opteron 165 that I had running at ~2.6ghz way back when.
If i get it all up and running i may pick up a 180 or something off ebay later.

I just ordered a second kit of ram off ebay. It has 2x1gb OCZ Platinum. So I'll have 4gb total when that set gets here.

I'll probably try running xp pro 64 or windows 7 ult.
 

CAD4466HK

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My board is the Asus a8n32 sli. (Anyone know if I can make this boot from USB?)
PCI-E for gpus.
Has a opteron 165 that I had running at ~2.6ghz way back when.
If i get it all up and running i may pick up a 180 or something off ebay later.

I just ordered a second kit of ram off ebay. It has 2x1gb OCZ Platinum. So I'll have 4gb total when that set gets here.

I'll probably try running xp pro 64 or windows 7 ult.
Yes it will boot from USB.
Have your USB plugged in before you boot it up and then hit F8 before windows loads and choose your device to boot from. I have a A8N-SLI and it works on mine
 

Armenius

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My board is the Asus a8n32 sli. (Anyone know if I can make this boot from USB?)
PCI-E for gpus.
Has a opteron 165 that I had running at ~2.6ghz way back when.
If i get it all up and running i may pick up a 180 or something off ebay later.

I just ordered a second kit of ram off ebay. It has 2x1gb OCZ Platinum. So I'll have 4gb total when that set gets here.

I'll probably try running xp pro 64 or windows 7 ult.
It doesn't support UEFI, so I don't think you'll be able to boot from USB. A quick search shows nobody being able to boot from USB.

It uses PCI-E version 1.0, so you will have bandwidth issues with any video card released in the past 5 years. You can still run them, though. 16 lanes of 1.1 is about the same bandwidth as 4 lanes of PCI-E 3.0, just for reference.

You will have driver issues trying to run Windows 7.
 
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Dan_D

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1616441009000.png


I simply can't understand why anyone would do this. If we are talking about i486 and early Pentium hardware, then whatever. You want to play your old 3DFX Glide games, sure. But, socket 939 is just old. X58, is just old. I see no benefit to running something like that over a more modern system. Especially when you can make your older games work on newer hardware. We aren't talking about the type of experiences you got on CRT monitors and related systems. We are talking about something that still utilizes PCI-Express and supports relatively modern features.
 

toast0

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It doesn't support UEFI, so I don't think you'll be able to boot from USB. A quick search shows nobody being able to boot from USB.

USB booting was popular and widely supported before UEFI. You might have to fiddle with image types to get things going; older bioses may only support one of hard drive/floppy drive/cd image, but you shouldnbe able to get one of them to work. Name brand computers with dorky firmware are usually harder, but a retail motherboard should be doable.
 

phantommaggot

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I simply can't understand why anyone would do this.
Well that's pretty simple, because I can, and I want to. LoL

It's not like I don't have a reasonably modern system that I play games on. And I've got a case on the way to hopefully build a new one. I wouldn't mind being able to get a 6800 XT sometime in the near future.

But, that old 939 system was my first legit system. I used that thing til I replaced it with a 4790k. I stomped a lot of ass in League of Legends back in the day with that thing LOL.
I also ran Linux as my main operating system on that thing for a long time (dual booting with windows) I played UT 2004 and it ran native on Linux.
Hell, I may just put Linux back on it.

As far as the x58 system goes. It'll just look cool. I'm not trying to play games on it or anything like that I'm probably just going to build it inside of some slim case and put a small screen on it and use it as a wall clock that looks cool. Something about six sticks of tracer in there..
honestly, if I had space and felt like building a completely custom case I'd get one of the old server boards that had 2 sockets like 18 slots lol.
I mean, it would be a pretty neat Linux web browser PC that would run some games if I didn't feel like switching

As far as everything else I'm pretty sure I booted from USB on the 939 way back when.. just can't remember. Otherwise I'll just use my computer to install an operating system onto an SSD since I don't have my optical drive or floppy drive.
 

lopoetve

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I tend to use them for servers/secondary systems/NAS devices/etc... but I only have one that old around, and booting from USB on it (AM2) is a PITA.
 

Starfalcon

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Well that's pretty simple, because I can, and I want to. LoL

It's not like I don't have a reasonably modern system that I play games on. And I've got a case on the way to hopefully build a new one. I wouldn't mind being able to get a 6800 XT sometime in the near future.

But, that old 939 system was my first legit system. I used that thing til I replaced it with a 4790k. I stomped a lot of ass in League of Legends back in the day with that thing LOL.
I also ran Linux as my main operating system on that thing for a long time (dual booting with windows) I played UT 2004 and it ran native on Linux.
Hell, I may just put Linux back on it.

As far as the x58 system goes. It'll just look cool. I'm not trying to play games on it or anything like that I'm probably just going to build it inside of some slim case and put a small screen on it and use it as a wall clock that looks cool. Something about six sticks of tracer in there..
honestly, if I had space and felt like building a completely custom case I'd get one of the old server boards that had 2 sockets like 18 slots lol.
I mean, it would be a pretty neat Linux web browser PC that would run some games if I didn't feel like switching

As far as everything else I'm pretty sure I booted from USB on the 939 way back when.. just can't remember. Otherwise I'll just use my computer to install an operating system onto an SSD since I don't have my optical drive or floppy drive.

Same here, I have always like tinkering with old hardware for fun for the last 20 some odd years. Plus it turned out good for me as that was how I got a lot of old hardware for free or barely anything, as I was the crazy guy that liked old junk. Now though a lot of that stuff is rare and desirable because most people just tossed it in the garbage.
 

slavie

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View attachment 341292

I simply can't understand why anyone would do this. If we are talking about i486 and early Pentium hardware, then whatever. You want to play your old 3DFX Glide games, sure. But, socket 939 is just old. X58, is just old. I see no benefit to running something like that over a more modern system. Especially when you can make your older games work on newer hardware. We aren't talking about the type of experiences you got on CRT monitors and related systems. We are talking about something that still utilizes PCI-Express and supports relatively modern features.
IDK. Why do people buy classic cars?
Did you hear some idiot paid $70 MILLION for a 1963 Ferrari 250 GTO. That thing only has 300HP. A modern $40k Civic Type-R has more HP and will probably outrun that Ferrari in just about every metric. The owner of the Ferrari is such a tool, could've saved himself $69,060,000 and gotten a better car!
 
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Krenum

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So, title says, im pulling my 939 system out of the closet and trying to find a way to make it work.
I've also gotten. My hands on a MSI x58m.

I'd love to max out the 939 system and run older games on it. But I'm pretty sure there's a point where new GPUs aren't comaptible. I just don't know where the cut off is.

Same for x58.. I was considering grabbing a 1650 low profile for that setup if things work out.
PCI express ports are backwards compatible, be it PCI Express 2.0-4.0. That's a 939 system so its not going back to AGP or PCI. If you where going to put a newer gpu in it you could. But I don't see why you would or should, but check that its at least PCI Express 2.0

You will probably run into driver issues. They don't make official drivers for newer graphics cards for windows 7 or older.

Stick with somthing to that Era. Like a GTX 9800 or 8800.
 
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phantommaggot

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There was also this board.. if it counts..
Lots of weird stuff out there. lol.
https://www.newegg.com/jetway-gtdual-std-g/p/N82E16813153035

As far as old GPUS go, The thing about getting old 8800s or 9800s is they require aux power.. The main reason I want something 'modern' is I can get a low power modern card that is still pretty solid by old standards but doesn't require a power cable.
But if I have to, I will.
I may still have a 7800 in the closet lol.. IDK.. I did have 2..

And I'm pretty sure it's pci-e 1.x
 

Krenum

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There was also this board.. if it counts..
Lots of weird stuff out there. lol.
https://www.newegg.com/jetway-gtdual-std-g/p/N82E16813153035

As far as old GPUS go, The thing about getting old 8800s or 9800s is they require aux power.. The main reason I want something 'modern' is I can get a low power modern card that is still pretty solid by old standards but doesn't require a power cable.
But if I have to, I will.
I may still have a 7800 in the closet lol.. IDK.. I did have 2..

And I'm pretty sure it's pci-e 1.x
...You want to use old hardware that requires more power, but have a graphics card that uses less power? Why????????????????????????

Look, I understand the nostalgia. You want the satisfaction of having an older machine to show off. I get it. But just let it go. We all built those old machines. They were good while they were "new". Let them go. You can do what you want to do on a modern machine and have the power requirements you seek. Its ok to have a modern machine. We all believe you are "old school".

I did this years ago, I thought it would be fun. It turned into a nightmare, having to track down drivers, search for compatible components / cables, ect...

You know where that retro build is right now after all that work? Its been sitting in my closet for 2 years.
 

CAD4466HK

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There was also this board.. if it counts..
Lots of weird stuff out there. lol.
https://www.newegg.com/jetway-gtdual-std-g/p/N82E16813153035

As far as old GPUS go, The thing about getting old 8800s or 9800s is they require aux power.. The main reason I want something 'modern' is I can get a low power modern card that is still pretty solid by old standards but doesn't require a power cable.
But if I have to, I will.
I may still have a 7800 in the closet lol.. IDK.. I did have 2..

And I'm pretty sure it's pci-e 1.x
I had this with a A64 3700+ and a 6800GT
https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-K8NSC-939-rev-1x#ov
 

lopoetve

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There was also this board.. if it counts..
Lots of weird stuff out there. lol.
https://www.newegg.com/jetway-gtdual-std-g/p/N82E16813153035

As far as old GPUS go, The thing about getting old 8800s or 9800s is they require aux power.. The main reason I want something 'modern' is I can get a low power modern card that is still pretty solid by old standards but doesn't require a power cable.
But if I have to, I will.
I may still have a 7800 in the closet lol.. IDK.. I did have 2..

And I'm pretty sure it's pci-e 1.x
Those I’ve seen 🤣
 

lopoetve

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...You want to use old hardware that requires more power, but have a graphics card that uses less power? Why????????????????????????

Look, I understand the nostalgia. You want the satisfaction of having an older machine to show off. I get it. But just let it go. We all built those old machines. They were good while they were "new". Let them go. You can do what you want to do on a modern machine and have the power requirements you seek. Its ok to have a modern machine. We all believe you are "old school".

I did this years ago, I thought it would be fun. It turned into a nightmare, having to track down drivers, search for compatible components / cables, ect...

You know where that retro build is right now after all that work? Its been sitting in my closet for 2 years.
A cheap 1050 will run rings around an old 8800GTS or the like - so use a cheap card now instead of an older, abused, power hungry full fat card. I get the theory.

I agree with the retro build though - I dream of it, but between GoG and dosbox... why?
 

lopoetve

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OH FUCK that board. Fuck that board hard. I had it. Steaming pile of shit that was SO finnicky with ram. Went through THREE of them before buying an Asus instead. Ugh. That's one of the 3 that almost turned me off Gigabyte forever (and kept me from ever buying a new one for AMD again). They fudged the RAM spec spacing slightly - and it REALLY hated that.
 

phantommaggot

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...You want to use old hardware that requires more power, but have a graphics card that uses less power? Why????????????????????????

Look, I understand the nostalgia. You want the satisfaction of having an older machine to show off. I get it. But just let it go. We all built those old machines. They were good while they were "new". Let them go. You can do what you want to do on a modern machine and have the power requirements you seek. Its ok to have a modern machine. We all believe you are "old school".

I did this years ago, I thought it would be fun. It turned into a nightmare, having to track down drivers, search for compatible components / cables, ect...

You know where that retro build is right now after all that work? Its been sitting in my closet for 2 years.
Look man, sucks you had a bad time and it made you miserable and bitter.. but honestly... you failing at playing with old hardware didn't give you anything but a case of butthurt, so... I don't really care. Go be condescending and negative elsewhere.

Hardware that requires more power...? The xeon I have for the x58 board is 95w and the opteron I have is 110w.. is that what you're after?.. Or are you talking about requiring external power into the board? Either way, that's not a huge deal.

As far as why I'd use a more modern card that doesn't need external power.. so I can use a cheaper PSU lol... Old high end hardware still had high power requirements.. modern mid/low range stuff is dramatically more powerful than older high end stuff but doesn't use much power. And if I can get these built the way I want, I'll be using sfx or flex. This applies to both systems..

Like I said, I'd like to get the x58 system up and running as a fun 'art' piece that I can still use. Maybe set it up as a synergy server, maybe something else. There are lots of reasons why old, reasonably powerful hardware can be useful. Either way, I want to build it in a little, thin case using a low profile GPU. I'll most likely undervolt and push the clocks like on my current system to hold power down and still keep performance. (I run my 4790k @ 4200ghz all core at <1v temps are always cool even gaming)

Lastly, is 'why' since someone else asked..even though I've answered it a few times already.
Because I want too.. and I can..
I already had half the stuff I need to get it done, it's not like I'm glued to ebay to buy all this stuff, just a few upgrades. The 939 has value to me personally, the x58 is something I've always had in my head. Set up some ballistix tracer in those triple channel slots.. top down cooler with a ring fan, 5" LCD in the case with a custom WP and rainmeter maybe.... just neat... IMO.

I don't want to build 'models' I want them to work as well as they can within reason.
 

slavie

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...You want to use old hardware that requires more power, but have a graphics card that uses less power? Why????????????????????????

Look, I understand the nostalgia. You want the satisfaction of having an older machine to show off. I get it. But just let it go. We all built those old machines. They were good while they were "new". Let them go. You can do what you want to do on a modern machine and have the power requirements you seek. Its ok to have a modern machine. We all believe you are "old school".

I did this years ago, I thought it would be fun. It turned into a nightmare, having to track down drivers, search for compatible components / cables, ect...

You know where that retro build is right now after all that work? Its been sitting in my closet for 2 years.
You're missing the point by about a mile. The guy already has a modern machine, he doesn't need another one, nor is the S939 in any way a replacement for anything. Why do people build model airplanes, or giant lego structures that then sit on a shelf collecting dust? Why do people look at old pictures? Some people want to build an old rig they either had or never had but wanted to have, or whatever. It's for the fun of it, a hobby for the free time.
 

phantommaggot

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You're missing the point by about a mile. The guy already has a modern machine, he doesn't need another one, nor is the S939 in any way a replacement for anything. Why do people build model airplanes, or giant lego structures that then sit on a shelf collecting dust? Why do people look at old pictures? Some people want to build an old rig they either had or never had but wanted to have, or whatever. It's for the fun of it, a hobby for the free time.
Right!
I can't get a new GPU right now, so why not knock the dust off the old stuff and see if it'll boot.. Worst case is it doesn't and I just sell off some stuff.

But if it does, it'll look cool hung on a wall. Or, at least it'll be built and working in my closet LOL.
I don't get Krenums attitude.

The funny thing is, the xeon 5675 is a damn good processor for the ~20 bucks I paid for it. I fell into the motherboard and that chokes performance a bit (x58m is pci-e 2 and sata 2(3gb) but I'm not trying to build a 'budget' gamer so no point in spending 150 on a rampage iii.. The ram I had some of, and have shopped up a bit more. Still need 2 more sticks.
 

dexvx

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If your older system doesn't do UEFI, I think that can be an issue with some newer graphics cards without support for traditional PC BIOS booting. That seems to be a gfx board cost cutting measure and not a gfx chip limitation from my brief look around.
Basically Core2 and older don't have UEFI, so if a GPU is UEFI only, it won't boot.

Crazy thing is, I have an ECS P67 (Sandy era) motherboard that only had BIOS boot option (no UEFI). So a Radeon RX wouldn't boot with it. Was very frustrating. If anyone wants this abomination of a board, LMK :p
 

CAD4466HK

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OH FUCK that board. Fuck that board hard. I had it. Steaming pile of shit that was SO finnicky with ram. Went through THREE of them before buying an Asus instead. Ugh. That's one of the 3 that almost turned me off Gigabyte forever (and kept me from ever buying a new one for AMD again). They fudged the RAM spec spacing slightly - and it REALLY hated that.
+1000 Streetcred
It ate 4x 1GB DDR533 ballistix tracer kits, before I upgraded to a MSI 939 Diamond+ and a 7900GT.
And since it had the NForce 3 250GB, it wouldn't support an x2 either.
 

lopoetve

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+1000 Streetcred
It ate 4x 1GB DDR533 ballistix tracer kits, before I upgraded to a MSI 939 Diamond+ and a 7900GT.
And since it had the NForce 3 250GB, it wouldn't support an x2 either.
Agreed. I was a poor college student at the time - came from an A7N8X, moved to a 754 Albatron board (warped from a HUGE zalman fan, ugh), got hte Gigabyte... and boom. It sucked. Took every cent I had to finally replace it. I think I threw the last one out.
 

Krenum

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You're missing the point by about a mile. The guy already has a modern machine, he doesn't need another one, nor is the S939 in any way a replacement for anything. Why do people build model airplanes, or giant lego structures that then sit on a shelf collecting dust? Why do people look at old pictures? Some people want to build an old rig they either had or never had but wanted to have, or whatever. It's for the fun of it, a hobby for the free time.
Blah blah blah, why do people build toys...ect. I get it. If you're an adult and build model airplanes, lego structures or anything that a child does. You are a child.

Do adult things, like building something useful. Something that can be passed down to your kid, if you've taken the time out of your lego building schedule to have one. Something of worth. Not some old piece of junk computer that only makes you happy and will be in the garbage heap when you're dead.
 

Starfalcon

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Basically Core2 and older don't have UEFI, so if a GPU is UEFI only, it won't boot.

Crazy thing is, I have an ECS P67 (Sandy era) motherboard that only had BIOS boot option (no UEFI). So a Radeon RX wouldn't boot with it. Was very frustrating. If anyone wants this abomination of a board, LMK :p

You can boot with a UEFI only card on an old system as long as you have an older card with bios support card alongside it. Phils computer lab showed it in one of their videos.
 

70 Polara

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All I can say to OP is old hardware kicks ass. We wouldn't be where we are today without the old stuff, so I hope you do a build and have some fun with it. My retro rig in my sig practically sees more gaming use then my 'modern' rig as there are so many old games to explore and replay. I wish you all the luck getting it going. Am thinking really something like a 7950GT or so is gonna be your best bet for that system as they are dirt cheap on ebay and probably more reliable then the 8800GTs of which I've encountered several dead ones lately.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BFG-Tech-G...810647?hash=item28accd0ad7:g:F0MAAOSwTvZgV89X

Check out www.vogons.org if you haven't yet, you'll see lots of other people having fun with old platforms there. :cigar:
 

phantommaggot

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Blah blah blah, why do people build toys...ect. I get it. If you're an adult and build model airplanes, lego structures or anything that a child does. You are a child.

Do adult things, like building something useful. Something that can be passed down to your kid, if you've taken the time out of your lego building schedule to have one. Something of worth. Not some old piece of junk computer that only makes you happy and will be in the garbage heap when you're dead.
You should work on pulling the stick of arrogance out of your ass.. you'd be a lot happier.
Must be miserable to not enjoy things.
You're once again making baseless assumptions and speaking with great ignorance. What you seem to be doing for the sole purpose of stroking your own ego. We all get it man, you think your decisions are the only important ones and everybody should do it your way. That's some elitist privilege right there bud.

You still aren't quite getting it are you. You're acting like I'm throwing money away or something of that nature. But i had most of this stuff. By your logic people should be putting 3090s in their streaming systems. why build a streaming system out of your old piece of crap computer right. Why would you use your last ITX motherboard for your server when you can buy a new one.
 
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My kind of thread. I retro game game from time to time. I have nearly 150 top end cards from the ages. My “main” retro rig is a 939 build. AMD FX 60, Abit crossfire board, Corsair xms 3200. I use different cards all the time. Also have many other builds but this one sees the most use. I have an A8n32sli board with a 4200x2 too. Anyway, retro gaming is the tits. I don’t know why I get excited about playing old games on old hardware but I do. I also fire up old consoles all the time too. Recently went through Code Veronica again on the Dreamcast.

Keep up the retro gaming!
 

Zedicus

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OH FUCK that board. Fuck that board hard. I had it. Steaming pile of shit that was SO finnicky with ram. Went through THREE of them before buying an Asus instead. Ugh. That's one of the 3 that almost turned me off Gigabyte forever (and kept me from ever buying a new one for AMD again). They fudged the RAM spec spacing slightly - and it REALLY hated that.

i liked that board, used one for a few years.

OP, build what you want and enjoy it. my entire sim racing rig is all built out of stuff other people were throwing away. build it because you can.
 

slavie

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I once built a "winkintosh", a PC running Windows in a PowerMac G3 case. Just for the fun of it, lol. Spent a bunch of hours hacking it away with Dremel and drill, stuffed some old PC hardware inside, got it running. It was really cool, but after the build I realized that I had no use for it. Took out the hardware and threw away the case. Do I regret building it? Not one bit - the fun was in the build, it was awesome.

What may not be obvious is that games are a form of practice. Kids build up motor skills, social skills, critical thinking, and so on through play. So do adults. Sure, seems like some of us are perfect out of the womb and get everything right on the first try always, but many of us need to bump our heads around a bit before we strike gold.

Sometimes hobbies turn into careers, sometimes they don't. In my case, that G3 build may seem like it was a waste of time. However, fast forward a few years from that point in time, and I landed a tech job out of college in one of the worst job markets following the 2008 crash. I didn't have a tech degree, I had a Finance one and a great deal of problem solving skills and tech knowledge from my hobbies. So I'd say I did alright for myself, and will continue "wasting" my time on PC builds.
 
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