RE: "Am I too hot?" threads.

[Volred]

I have a question about this.

I run samurize w/ mother board monitor.

MBM tells me that I have a CPU Diode and a CPU Socket

These are the temps under a full load on an Asus A7V333 board

CPU Diode: 58-60c
CPU Socket 45-48c

Which temperature are we talking about. If everyone is talking about the socket temperature, im ok.

 

[Mo_BurLy]

Always use the diode. It's actually in the chip. The socket is BS.

 

[SonicTron]

What I really don't like is when people start spouting bullshit about how running 60c is "taking the chips to the absolute limits." Stability rules above all - if your chip dies an early death from 60c, its not because you overheated it but because the chip would have died an early death anyways.

Many people comfortably run low speed fans with fair sized heatsinks and have temperatures in the low 60's without any problems. Reduce the lifetime of your hardware? I can't even begin my retort against that.....you shouldn't be posting here if thats what you are worried about.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by SonicTron
What I really don't like is when people start spouting bullshit about how running 60c is "taking the chips to the absolute limits." Stability rules above all - if your chip dies an early death from 60c, its not because you overheated it but because the chip would have died an early death anyways.

Many people comfortably run low speed fans with fair sized heatsinks and have temperatures in the low 60's without any problems. Reduce the lifetime of your hardware? I can't even begin my retort against that.....you shouldn't be posting here if thats what you are worried about.

I turned the fan down on my SLK 800U to 3,000 rpm. Temp went to around 66c. Ran Prime for 12 hours. It errored, several times, even crashed. Turned fan RPM back up to what it normally is (just shy of 5,000 rpm) and ran Prime again. Guess what? It ran fine for 24 hours, no errors. Normal temp with fan at 5,000 rpm is mid 40's. I've repeated this experiment several times, in fact, all to the same conclusion. Believe what you will, but temperature does have some effects upon stability. This is all with a moderate OC on a 2500+ (2.27 ghz, can run stable at 2.4 ghz).

With the fan at 5,000 rpm, it's not loud, either. At least, not compared to the server fans I pulled from a Dell. think 120mm Delta.

 

[SonicTron]

Originally posted by ’m‚³‚ñ
I turned the fan down on my SLK 800U to 3,000 rpm. Temp went to around 66c. Ran Prime for 12 hours. It errored, several times, even crashed. Turned fan RPM back up to what it normally is (just shy of 5,000 rpm) and ran Prime again. Guess what? It ran fine for 24 hours, no errors. Normal temp with fan at 5,000 rpm is mid 40's. I've repeated this experiment several times, in fact, all to the same conclusion. Believe what you will, but temperature does have some effects upon stability. This is all with a moderate OC on a 2500+ (2.27 ghz, can run stable at 2.4 ghz).

With the fan at 5,000 rpm, it's not loud, either. At least, not compared to the server fans I pulled from a Dell. think 120mm Delta.

we all know that lower temps may help with stability, but the point is that if your chip is stable at a high temperature then it is stable. There is no need to add further cooling, higher speed fans, etc. if your chip is stable, although it does seem to reassure people - call it a security blanket if you will.

 

[Akhilez]

Originally posted by SonicTron
we all know that lower temps may help with stability, but the point is that if your chip is stable at a high temperature then it is stable. There is no need to add further cooling, higher speed fans, etc. if your chip is stable, although it does seem to reassure people - call it a security blanket if you will.

this man is correct

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by SonicTron
we all know that lower temps may help with stability, but the point is that if your chip is stable at a high temperature then it is stable. There is no need to add further cooling, higher speed fans, etc. if your chip is stable, although it does seem to reassure people - call it a security blanket if you will.

I repeated the experiment on my 1900+ that's running at stock as well. No different. Although, when I bumped the voltage down half a volt, it didn't seem to matter anymore. It's been running at 54c @ stock everything, I turned the fan down and it ran pretty badly at 74c. Bumped the voltage down a bit, ran 50c. Bumped the fan down in RPM and it ran just find at 77c.

There's more to chip stability than just temp. Temp does have a roll in other things, though, which can add to stability. It has also been shown that higher running temps can shorten a chip's life. I'm sure if I ran my Pally at 77c, even though it's perfectly stable, it'll die in a year or two, instead of 4 or 5 years.

I find that when my Barton runs hot, so does the chipset. By quite a bit. I don't quite understand this, although it might be why my main machine freaks out every now and then when I'm running in the high 50s or low 60. It might have to do with my main HSF being so close to the chipset HSF that they touch.

So, in some cases there is reason that lower temps can have an impact on overall system stability and on system longevity.

I'm arguing the point because I had a shitty weekend and I feel like arguing.

 

[SonicTron]

Originally posted by ’m‚³‚ñ

There's more to chip stability than just temp. Temp does have a roll in other things, though, which can add to stability. It has also been shown that higher running temps can shorten a chip's life. I'm sure if I ran my Pally at 77c, even though it's perfectly stable, it'll die in a year or two, instead of 4 or 5 years.
So, in some cases there is reason that lower temps can have an impact on overall system stability and on system longevity.

I'm arguing the point because I had a shitty weekend and I feel like arguing.

cool show me that your pally will definitely die in 2 years then. Any what the hell does that have to do with system stability? Nothing.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by SonicTron
cool show me that your pally will definitely die in 2 years then. Any what the hell does that have to do with system stability? Nothing.

You said that if a chip was stable at high temperature that it is fine. I just showed that temperature does matter in stability, but the overall condition of the system also does.

So, by your logic, you suggest that I run this chip at 77c? It is stable, yes, but that temperature has the same effects as running the chip with high voltage. You would be nuts to run a Pally core at 77c 24/7 for weeks on end. Not only will that shorten the life of the chip, but it can damage other components in the system as well. My temp in the case went from 32c to 45c in about 15 minutes. In a few days, that temp might be 85c cpu and 70c case. Are you trying to say, as long as it's stable, that's fine for the chip? You are nuts, I hope you never run F@H or anything like that on a system like that.

Suggesting that someone stick with mediocre cooling because of high temps with stability is a mediocre suggestion at best. Most often, people experience instability because of high temps, and sometimes, as with this same Pally in the past, the role of the temp and instability aren't exactly defined in black and white.

A CPU core has personality. Each one is different. They overclock different, they react to voltage changes differently, they react to temperature differently. If you want your CPU to run for a long time, treat it with respect. At least put a decent HSF on it, that's the least you can do. Geeze, going overkill with a cooling solution (not extremely overkill, mind you) could be the difference between having a decent CPU life or frying a $300 P4. If you're going to invest in the CPU itself, why not invest in good cooling? It's like buying an airplane, and putting enough parachutes on it for the crew members, but not any extra incase of passengers.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you need a watercooling setup or pelt or something like that, but your $30 radio shack HSF just won't cut it here.

My last point is, you're suggesting that people stick with the mentality of HP, Dell, and the lot of them. They cut corners to produce product, they don't really care if it runs for 10 years or not (they, in fact, design them to fail within 5 years or so), so they go skimpy on things like RAM slots, HS, mobo features, etc. Don't do that. If someone is concerned about a mid 60's temp, suggest a good HSF, it tis really their choice to choose to spend the money on it or not.

 

[Sc0rched]

Can we cover the motherboard "Am I too hot?" temps in here too??

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by Sc0rched
Can we cover the motherboard "Am I too hot?" temps in here too??

Unless your PCB is bursting into flames or your PCI slots are melting off, your mainboard isn't too hot. However, your chipset is a different matter. I don't see why not, seeing as this is what this forum is designed for (Hence, overclocking and cooling in the name).

 

[n64man120]

I'm buying a temperature monitor to go in a drivebay slot. Where exactly should I place the little sensors on my videocard and processor to ensure best readings without putting it somewhere which could damage a component.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by n64man120
I'm buying a temperature monitor to go in a drivebay slot. Where exactly should I place the little sensors on my videocard and processor to ensure best readings without putting it somewhere which could damage a component.

On the HSF, directly opposite of the CPU, or on the top of the CPU, right up against the SIDE of the core (do NOT put the probe ON the core, you will fry things easily that way). On your vid card, put it on the PCB directly opposite the core, or on the HS as I suggested with the CPU.

 

[Sc0rched]

Unless your PCB is bursting into flames or your PCI slots are melting off, your mainboard isn't too hot. However, your chipset is a different matter. I don't see why not, seeing as this is what this forum is designed for (Hence, overclocking and cooling in the name).

That is what I ment...

 

[Nazo]

Bwahaha, I got my chasis temperature down to 18C when idling thanks to the help of some fans and all. CPU stays around 30-40 from idle to heaviest load albiet with a cheap but fairly good hs+fan.

Too bad my cheap components can't take advantage of all this with even higher overclocking. There's a little tip for people. If you want to OC, don't buy cheapy stuff. (This MB is killing me!)

 

[mictian]

i put my temperature sensor under the heat spreader opposite the GPU in my radeon 9800xt. It seems to be around 38c idle and 42 under a load, is this decent?

 

[hellzassasin]

on an amd chip, would i find out the current temp right in bios?

 

[vortec4800]

I remember when I wanted to burn up my AMD chip (a 2200+ which I wanted to destroy so I could get a new one from Fry's Electronics... God Bless Performance Gaurntees...) so I ran the thing without a heatsink or fan. I went into the bios and watched the temps climb up, they hit about 95C then the motherboard thermal protection went into place and it killed the power and sounded an alarm. I did this a dozen times or so, the smell was terrible. I also took a small chip out of the side of the core when I was messing with the heatsink before doing this to it, so I was burning up a chip with a cracked core on top of it. Anyway after about a dozen tries this thing still ran strong, and still runs strong to this day.

The moral of the story is that AMD chips are really hardcore when it comes to cooling, they can sure take a beating.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by vortec4800
I remember when I wanted to burn up my AMD chip (a 2200+ which I wanted to destroy so I could get a new one from Fry's Electronics... God Bless Performance Gaurntees...) so I ran the thing without a heatsink or fan. I went into the bios and watched the temps climb up, they hit about 95C then the motherboard thermal protection went into place and it killed the power and sounded an alarm. I did this a dozen times or so, the smell was terrible. I also took a small chip out of the side of the core when I was messing with the heatsink before doing this to it, so I was burning up a chip with a cracked core on top of it. Anyway after about a dozen tries this thing still ran strong, and still runs strong to this day.

The moral of the story is that AMD chips are really hardcore when it comes to cooling, they can sure take a beating.

Try running a CPU intensive game then taking the HSF off. That should fry your chip in a hurry.

 

[Mo_BurLy]

Originally posted by vortec4800
The moral of the story is that AMD chips are really hardcore when it comes to cooling, they can sure take a beating.

Don't know what's up with yours but I've burned MANY Athlons just by turning the system on with poor or no contact between the chip and the waterblock. Dead instantly. That's why I started using a spacer again.

 

[(cf)Eclipse]

hmm... it's really fun to watch the temps on my 2500+ climb up to 70c with my slk900a when i take the fan off, then it stabilizes because of passive cooling, and there is this big path of hot air rising out of my case (i have it laying on it's side with the door off)

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by (cf)Eclipse
hmm... it's really fun to watch the temps on my 2500+ climb up to 70c with my slk900a when i take the fan off, then it stabilizes because of passive cooling, and there is this big path of hot air rising out of my case (i have it laying on it's side with the door off)

That's just strange. I'd try that with my SLK 800U, but there is enogh dust in that thing that it probably wouldn't work very well.

 

[vortec4800]

Originally posted by Mo_BurLy
Don't know what's up with yours but I've burned MANY Athlons just by turning the system on with poor or no contact between the chip and the waterblock. Dead instantly. That's why I started using a spacer again.

Odd, maybe I just had the best Athlon ever. Cool.

 

[boardsportsrule]

THANK YOU GOD!!! finally, no more asking" is 38C on a amd to hot?" damn...thank you !!! tired of typing " if it's stable, it's OK" or " stay below 65ISH C on a amd...."

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by vortec4800
Odd, maybe I just had the best Athlon ever. Cool.

No, you have the HS but not the fan on, right? I have a friend who did this at a LAN party, the thermal protection on the mainboard will kick in before the chip frys.

boardsportsrule, I believe your Sig is too large, you might want to check the forum rules.

 

[jnusbaum]

The AMD spec sheets have been mentioned in this thread and questions have been asked about their interpretation. In my experience the numbers in spec sheets are "real" in the sense that if the data sheet said that maximum operating temp was 90 degrees C then I would feel comfortable putting that part in a system and running it at at least 90% of that number. The numbers in those sheets are supposed to be numbers you can really count on. When AMD says 90 max operating temp they mean you can run it at up to 90 degrees for long periods of time and still expect reasonable product life.

Now to AMD reasonable product life may only be 5 years. Very little equipment based on commodity computing parts is still in service after 5 years. I find it surprising that people are talking about wanting their processors to last 5 or more years. After all how many people (in this community at least) are still running PIIs?

Other factors besides operating temperature may be much more important to component life. Thermal cycles in particular (how often do you turn it off and on) are probably much more important than operating temperature (assuming that you keep it within specs).

Also remember that AMD is talking about true core temperature. According to AMD's own docs core temperature should be assumed to be about 30 degrees higher than most motherboard based measurements (using thermistors). Thus a 60 degrees reported in MBM may really be a 90 degree core temperature.

As someone has mentioned, companies like Dell engineer their systems so that processor temperature is much higher than most here would find acceptable (60-70). Mostly to reduce fan noise. Yet they achieve extremely good reliability and longevity. Again with the caveat that most equipment in this market segment is not really expected to last more than 5 years or so.

To avoid annoying noise and because my equipment operates in a high ambient temperature environment I regularly run with processor temps in the 50-60 range with no ill effects. But then I upgrade every 2 years or so so I really don't care if my processor lasts longer than that.

 

[n64man120]

Originally posted by ’m‚³‚ñ
On the HSF, directly opposite of the CPU, or on the top of the CPU, right up against the SIDE of the core (do NOT put the probe ON the core, you will fry things easily that way). On your vid card, put it on the PCB directly opposite the core, or on the HS as I suggested with the CPU.

So what your saying is to sandwhich the sensor between the HSF and the CPU but to make sure its not touching the core? And with the video card by PCB do you been put it on the back of the card but right where the core is?

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by n64man120
So what your saying is to sandwhich the sensor between the HSF and the CPU but to make sure its not touching the core? And with the video card by PCB do you been put it on the back of the card but right where the core is?

Right on the first one, right on the second one.

I have a GeForce2 MX200 that gets so hot, without the additional cooling I put on it, you could boil water on the PCB directly opposite of the core. ;

 

[n64man120]

Originally posted by ’m‚³‚ñ
Right on the first one, right on the second one.

I have a GeForce2 MX200 that gets so hot, without the additional cooling I put on it, you could boil water on the PCB directly opposite of the core. ;

But if you put it between the HSF and the CPU wont it ruin the thermal bond?

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by n64man120
But if you put it between the HSF and the CPU wont it ruin the thermal bond?

Read it again. I said between the CPU and HS, but to the side of the core, not directly between the core and CPU.

The core is raised slightly, right? Well, put it right against the side of the raised part, but not over the flat part of the core at all.

 

[n64man120]

So as long as its on the cpu but not right on the core in the middle it should be ok?

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by n64man120
So as long as its on the cpu but not right on the core in the middle it should be ok?

Yeah. I'll grab an image from newegg.com or something an use Paint to illistrate it if you want.

 

[n64man120]

Yes please, thanks alot

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

Originally posted by n64man120
Yes please, thanks alot

I usually use my girlfriend's webserver, but right now it's down. Can you IM me? biyofan@msn.com for MSN or MegaBasses for AIM.

 

[renegadez]

what kind of program or device do you need to test the temperature of the video card?

 

[TekieB]

So what your saying is to sandwhich the sensor between the HSF and the CPU but to make sure its not touching the core? And with the video card by PCB do you been put it on the back of the card but right where the core is?

The first time i installed a volcano 9 (my first piece of enthusiast hardware...memories) I put the thermal sensor right on the core...went throught one 1600+, one 1700+, and a FIC ad11 before I figured out that the chip didn't make any contact with the HSF

 

[Imp]

Hey ok I have a question I'm running p4 2.8 @ 3.2ghz, and under stress or load I'm getting 48 degrees celsius, having a back fan, cpu fan, and this other internal fan...I'm wondering is that too high or not? and also when I oced it to 3.4 the temp was at 56-57 degrees celsius...is that little bit too high? if that is...does anyone have any idea how to cool dat down to say around 50 degrees celsius? I currently have only 2 more available fan slots in the front of my case and I dun want water cooling too expansive :X

any suggestions?

Thanks!

and here are my specs:
350watt Ethermax
1gb Hynix Ram 3200 400DDR
P4 2.8 ghz 800FSB
Asus p4p800

 

[cornelious0_0]

Originally posted by Imp
Hey ok I have a question I'm running p4 2.8 @ 3.2ghz, and under stress or load I'm getting 48 degrees celsius, having a back fan, cpu fan, and this other internal fan...I'm wondering is that too high or not? and also when I oced it to 3.4 the temp was at 56-57 degrees celsius...is that little bit too high? if that is...does anyone have any idea how to cool dat down to say around 50 degrees celsius? I currently have only 2 more available fan slots in the front of my case and I dun want water cooling too expansive :X

any suggestions?

Thanks!

and here are my specs:
350watt Ethermax
1gb Hynix Ram 3200 400DDR
P4 2.8 ghz 800FSB
Asus p4p800

First off, a few questions:

1 - What HSF are you using? That is going to play a major role in this. I've got the Zalman CNPS7000-ALCU on my P4 2.6C and it idles at about 26C at stock clock. The thing is that even though I've got exceptional idle temps.....the max load numbers are much different, climbing 10 degrees to 36C. When I'm oc'ed to 3.25GHz @ 1.65v it's about 31 idle and closer to 43 max load.....a little more of a delta.

2 - What are your case temps like? This is one of the most important things when trying to drop your CPU's temp.....as you can't make it cooler when their isnt any cooler air to blow on it. make sure you've done everything you can for your case temps by adding more/better fans and making sure you've got them positioned correctly (intake/exhaust) in each position before you start to worry about dropping that CPU temp.

3 - Once you've got your case temps down as far as possible, make sure that you choose your cooler wisely. I'd recommend either my Zalman CNPS 7000 or one of Thermalright's massive SLK heatsinks coupled with a 92mm PanafloM/H.

4 - Don't forget that Arctic Silver!!! Never settle for cheap substitutes.....throw that generic crap in the trash quick.

 

[Imp]

I'm not sure what kind of cpu fan I got lol...the one that just came with the box I guess

I have only installed a Steath Vantec 80mm below my enermax supply...I have room for 2 more fans up at the bottom front...which I'm not sure should I install or not...some ppl saying it does do better air flow...but other ppl saying it even rises the temp, so I'm not sure...I'm not sure my case temp...but when I take it off da temp decreases ~5 degrees celsius

my CPU temperature increases a lot when I stress it from 36 to a whooping 54 degrees celsius...I dunno whats wrong there...

oh and dat silver compound...I haven't tried dat yet...I dunno how to use it...or how to put it between my cpu and heat sink fan...need help on that ...does dat help a lot?

All I want to do now is make it 3.2 at around low 40 degrees celsius, or if possible 3.4 at lower than 50 degrees celsius

 

[cornelious0_0]

I'm not sure what kind of cpu fan I got lol...the one that just came with the box I guess

K, that's a start. The retail Intel P4 fans aren't THAT bad.....but you could be doing a hell of a lot better.

I have only installed a Steath Vantec 80mm below my enermax supply...I have room for 2 more fans up at the bottom front...which I'm not sure should I install or not...some ppl saying it does do better air flow...but other ppl saying it even rises the temp, so I'm not sure...I'm not sure my case temp...but when I take it off da temp decreases ~5 degrees celsius

Well it is a good idea to have that exhaust in the back but I would REALLY recommend adding in those two front fans. If you have no fans in the front (or wherever) intaking air.....how do you expect to cool down your CPU? All you're doing is re-cycling the warm air already in the case. Vantec Stealth fans are very nice for low noise cases but I would really suggest moving to something with a little more oomph. An 80mm Stealth fan is only going to be moving about 21cfm.....not nearly enough to fully effective in a hot case. Look around to see what you can find but I'd suggest putting in those two front fans and replacing the stealth.....using fans with at least 30cfm for each placement for optimal results.

oh and dat silver compound...I haven't tried dat yet...I dunno how to use it...or how to put it between my cpu and heat sink fan...need help on that ...does dat help a lot?

Do you have ANY compound on your CPU at all!?!?!? If you don't I'd almost flip out right here and now 'cus that's gonna be the source of MOST of your temp issues. Pick up a 3g tube of Arctic Silver 5 and apply a paper-thin coating of it on the CPU's heatspreader. Thermal compound creates better contact between the HSF and CPU, helping with heat transfer. In theory you could use any compound and get the same amount of contact but it goes beyond that. Thermal compound (well, good stuff anyways) also contains a certain percentage of silver.....which aids in the heat transfer even more. Better thermal compound (arctic silver being the best) will have a higher %age of silver in it, the higher the better. Go get some.

All I want to do now is make it 3.2 at around low 40 degrees celsius, or if possible 3.4 at lower than 50 degrees celsius

If you follow all of my above recommendations you should be able to bring those goals into sight. Again, there are still far more things that will come into play. One of the biggest outside variables is your room temperature. If you're going to stick with air cooling then you can basically look at in the sense that your CPU will NEVER be a lower temperature then your room.....and often roughly 5-15 degrees higher.....depending on your case/HSF setup.

So, to wrap things up:

1 - go get three 30cfm 80mm case fans (these being a great example), put two intakes in the front, and one exhaust in the back.
2 - go pick up either the Zalman CNPS7000-CU OR a Thermalright SP-94 /w a 92mm Panaflo H1A
3 - Here's that Arctic Silver I was talking about.....pick up a tube fast and throw out the stuff that comes with the HSF you buy.

Beyond that there's not a whole lot I can suggest other then more airflow and lower temps almost always come at the expense of louder fans and more noise so find the case fans/cpu hsf that are best for YOU.....and make sure you do some extra research of your own to get some second and third opinions. While I'd consider myself fairly credible, I don't wanna have you walking into something blindly without knowing that you've looked around for yourself to confirm what I said.