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you would need some serious pressure to get the coolant through all those tiny jets... it would kill my system. lol.
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Rare Expensive Water Block?
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DFI Daishi
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you might be right, you might be suprised.revenant said:
that block should work fine with any decent pump.....1046, 1048, 1250, DDC whatever you choose to use as your standard: it doesn't have to be a massive pump to get that block to work. it doesn't pull far ahead without higher flow rates than that, but it doesn't need killer flow in order to work.
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my koolance has these tiny little pumps.. two of them.. they are about the size of 4 AA batts in a 2x2x2 config... er, yeah, like this :: heh. Anyways, I know some peeps said the storm G4 worked with this setup... so maybe I would be surprized. 
Actually I lost nothing on my overclock by running a Storm off a Aquastream with 6mm tubing. Temps were not as good but who cares if the overclock remains the same and you are withing 1-2c?revenant said:
So no, the block is very good.
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I was never doubting whether it was good or not, I just surmised that it might cause a backup in my system... but perhaps not as much as I first thought.
I love all you AC peeps (TN, RC you know I do) but I'm gonna have to side with BillA and Cathar on this one (even though no one asked my opinion).
The amount of contributions, knowledge, experience, testing, analysis, help and overall furthering of the WC cause represented by these two individuals combined is astounding. I for one think that they have a right to say, essentially, "bring some evidence to the table or STFU".
I have nothing against theseeker but, frankly, he doesn't deserve for me (or anyone else) to believe him unless he's willing to give at least a tiny bit of proof.
Now I also realize he may not care if I believe him or not but that's not the point I'm arguing.
If I put one of my projects into Open Source and someone who I knew had little to no direct experience with my particular area of programming made a post that essentially amounted to, "I took your code and made it better", AND they didn't offer any evidence to support the claim, I'd be pretty ticked and I'd also be inclined to not believe them.
And I have no where near the level of expertise in my own field as these guys do in theirs. Although I do consider myself very accomplish I don't fool myself thinking I'm the best of the best, and these guys are. And that ain't !!!!!! talk, that's just plain ole fact.
The amount of contributions, knowledge, experience, testing, analysis, help and overall furthering of the WC cause represented by these two individuals combined is astounding. I for one think that they have a right to say, essentially, "bring some evidence to the table or STFU".
I have nothing against theseeker but, frankly, he doesn't deserve for me (or anyone else) to believe him unless he's willing to give at least a tiny bit of proof.
Now I also realize he may not care if I believe him or not but that's not the point I'm arguing.
If I put one of my projects into Open Source and someone who I knew had little to no direct experience with my particular area of programming made a post that essentially amounted to, "I took your code and made it better", AND they didn't offer any evidence to support the claim, I'd be pretty ticked and I'd also be inclined to not believe them.
And I have no where near the level of expertise in my own field as these guys do in theirs. Although I do consider myself very accomplish I don't fool myself thinking I'm the best of the best, and these guys are. And that ain't !!!!!! talk, that's just plain ole fact.
WarlordBB said:
Sorry for not replying sooner, I have been out of town.
Frankly I do not care if you believe me or not. I once remapped a chip in Porsche with the help of one my control engineers and I had many doubters until I twisted one of the axles due to, too much torque. I said it before and I will say it again. The difference was only 2 degrees! I dont think that type of gain requires an investigation or a full blown test by Toms Hardware. I simply did this for fun and because I have the resources at my finger tips. Additionally, the new block is in my new house, therfore no testing was conducted back to back in a controlled environment.
Lastly, if you look at my past post's you will notice that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Cathar.
DFI Daishi
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2 C is absolutely huge, if it's verifiable gain. it's fucking epic when you are talking about a high end block like the G4, let alone the G5.theseeker said:
i don't take this claim too seriously unless you get that bad boy on some kind of calibrated test equipment, but i don't think that you realize just how large an accomplishment you claim to have made.
the reason for all the disbelief is that what you are claiming would be a quantum leap forward, regardless of the expense, and your reported gains are totally inexplicable.
at the moment, i'll give you the benifit of the doubt and chalk up the gains to either un calibrated equipment or that you've just happend to find the golden city with this block.
i just hope that you realize that 2C improvement is amazing.....the spread between the best on the market and the worst is only around 4C.
BillA said:
I am not quite sure how to respond to your comments. However, I will try.
It is unfortunate that you do not believe in God, obviously you have never been under fire or in a fox hole. Secondly, I agree that Ag has better conductivity, Inconel has higher melting point, thus it is a stronger metal under heat. Thirdly, while I personally may not have the engineering skills, I have 30 employees that do and do not begin to criticize people you do not know. Lastly, you are letting your IQ, or lack there of show. This is a place to discuss and debate, not a place to call people liars..........especially some one that you do not know. I doubt seriously that you are a bad person or that you harbor ill will, however, I can promise you that if were discussing this face to face, the word liar would not be one you would use.
DFI Daishi said:
Maybe it is a leap, but notice what I said; these results were realized in a different house and different room. My fault for not recording the ambient room temps, which could explain the difference. The bottom is this; that block is truly outstanding.
you would be well advised to learn something about the subject
full, and I mean REALLY FULL, of shit
you, the seeker
liar, you bet; thats you
employees ? another lie I bet
company name please
I'm in Shoreacres TX and I use NUMBERS to describe performance
old stuff http://www.thermal-management-testing.com/
EDIT
I have been been shot at, held with a gun to my head, and killed
god is your fiction
full, and I mean REALLY FULL, of shit
you, the seeker
liar, you bet; thats you
employees ? another lie I bet
company name please
I'm in Shoreacres TX and I use NUMBERS to describe performance
old stuff http://www.thermal-management-testing.com/
EDIT
I have been been shot at, held with a gun to my head, and killed
god is your fiction
In physics terms, given a 14x14mm heat source size, the resultant effect of the lower thermal conductivity of inconel over silver mean that even if the convectional transfer co-efficient of the water-metal interface, in the same sort of design, were raised to infinity, then at best the inconel based wb could only ever exceed the silver based version by around 0.5C on a 100W heat load across that 14x14mm heat load area.
Infinity is a big number though. Even if we presume that the new block achieved a convectional transfer co-efficient 10x that of the Storm/G5, keeping in mind that the scale between something like a Maze 3 and a G5 is just ~3x in terms of the convectional rate, then the G5 would still be performing better due to inconel's lower thermal conductivity.
Infinity is a big number though. Even if we presume that the new block achieved a convectional transfer co-efficient 10x that of the Storm/G5, keeping in mind that the scale between something like a Maze 3 and a G5 is just ~3x in terms of the convectional rate, then the G5 would still be performing better due to inconel's lower thermal conductivity.
$BangforThe$
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Ya its expensive but beings its made of silver it should work with an aluminum rad .
Kinda neat .
Does anyone know if the non conductive liquides have the same corsive effects of mixing copper and aluminum
Kinda neat .
Does anyone know if the non conductive liquides have the same corsive effects of mixing copper and aluminum
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Ice Czar said:
Damn you, Man. Damn you for posting those links to the G7. Now I want one of those. Having done some machining myself, Cathar's working is amazing.
Everyone may not be able to afford one but I think this sums it up:
"If you have to ask, then you just don't understand."
zer0signal667
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Enough of the personal pissing matches. I was taking interest in the technical merit of this thread, but it seems to be lost.
BillA said:
Actually that picture is not of the totally finished plate. There is some burring overlap of the plate surface over the cup edges from the surface grinding finish that's visible in that photo, making the walls look a little thicker than what they are. The plate gets lapped for a cleaner finish and also to bring the overall plate thickness in line with the designed cup depth (cutting on the waste side of the line...), and the cup entrances are subsequently "ported" to the point that adjacent cups entrances appear to touch, which both improves overall pressure-drop, and helps in a minor fashion with heat dissipation. On the finished plate it is extremely difficult to detect the final cup/wall ratio with the naked eye, or even from a photo, due to the ported inlets making the cup walls appear much thinner than what they are (somewhat in reverse of the picture of the unfinished plate).
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Susquehannock said:
but I notice from someone pic that there is a color change thru out the year on the G4 due to the fact that it's copper. The color seems to change to green.
DFI Daishi
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copper oxidizes over time when exposed to air. common copper oxide is green to green-blue. it's not actually the oxide that is green, but i can't remember if it's the hydroxide or hydrate that gives it that colour.........Happy Hopping said:
silver oxidixes more or less black......blue-black, blue-grey in around there......
moisture and oxygen will eventually do their thing unless you have some kind of protetive coating. unfortunately, such a protective coating interferes with cooling, so it's not something that you're going to see on a waterblock base plate.
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DFI Daishi said:
Okay, in jewelery stores that sells silver, those silver jewelery remains as silver color forever. So how can they oxidizes?
Anyhow, is there any chance that when the G7 is fully available directly from Cathar, that the G5 will be release to Swiftech to replace the current G4?
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zer0signal667 said:
we spent the last 5 pages in this thread talk about corrosion. But even if there are radiator made of Al, they are all anodized in anyway. So why the big concern?
Anyhoo, in the odd chance that it does happen:
1) When will we see corrosion from the time you bought the system? It's been 1.5 decades since I took organic chem., so I don't remember the formula
2) Let's say it happen: what will be the physical damage to the computer, specificially which components?
zer0signal667
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Happy Hopping said:
1) I can't answer that. When will my air filter need replacing from the time I bought my car? Too many variables to predict, but you can project that it will happen.
2) Well, leaking or clogged block, pump or radiator could lead to catasrophic failure of other components. I don't think I need to explain this one much further...
DFI Daishi
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take a look at an old silver spoon that never gets used and seldom gets polished for an example of what i mean. the oxide coating rubs off pretty easily, polishing you block, spoon, jewlery or whatever else, but if you just leave it sitting there, it gets an ugly black coating of oxide on it.Happy Hopping said:
you other question has been addressed by a pretty good authority on what swiftech would and wouldn't consider liscencing and building.
Susquehannock
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Happy Hopping said:
It's a little more complicated than that actually. You see, a large majority of the SilverDFI Daishi said:
spoons & jewelry you see are Sterling not Fine Silver. While the roughly 7.5% Copper
content in Sterling imparts many desirable traits such as increased hardness & higher
melting temp, it also makes the Silver more susceptible to oxidation.
There ya go.nikhsub1 said:Corrosion can happen very quickly. Just don't use al with copper or silver, period.
That's is what I was wondering about. And when this thread started morphing toward the technical.
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Ice Czar said:
1) Does the G7 works well w/ Eheim 1048? Eheim 1048 spec. is:
I like the 1048 because it's very quiet, I can get same day exchange on a special 5 yr. warranty and I like the German made quality.
2) Also, will the G7 works w/ Opteron Dual Core CPU? I read the spec. on the G4 from swiftech, it wasn't very clear, as it didn't specifically mention Opteron.
3) What is the ID of the G7? I can't find that spec. anywhere.
By the way, since G8 is only possible w/ a joint venture w/ NASA, is there any chance for Cathar to move on to GPU water block, at least the popular GPU out there?
madmat
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1: Cathar has said the G4 will work with most every pump and since the G5 and G7 are refinements on the G4 design it stands to reason that the G7 will also work well with it but I would suggest the Danger Den DDC 12V as it has a much higher head rating which means you'll lose less flow to the G7's design.
2: The G7 works with all current gen CPU's, this includes the Opty's. You'll see the biggest temp decrease by uncapping (removing the IHS) your CPU though.
3: ID? Inside diameter? From Cathar's site:
4: Cathar is working on a GPU block, he's said this several times but don't hold your breath as it's just something he's fooling around with...
2: The G7 works with all current gen CPU's, this includes the Opty's. You'll see the biggest temp decrease by uncapping (removing the IHS) your CPU though.
3: ID? Inside diameter? From Cathar's site:
This is for the G5 but since the G7 is a variation on the G5 I'm sure it applies.
4: Cathar is working on a GPU block, he's said this several times but don't hold your breath as it's just something he's fooling around with...
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Thanks for the info about the ID thing. As to DangerDen, I just can't stand their high pitch noise
DFI Daishi
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have you actually heard the DDC in opperation? i honestly haven't but the thing is rated for 22 db opperation: damn quiet if you ask me.Happy Hopping said:
unless you have heard it first hand and KNOW that it is too loud for you, i would really suggest looking into it, especially since in many situations even your HDDs will make more noise than that pump will.
the same pump is sold by swiftech as the MCP 350, in case you didn't already know.
Since this thread was about water blocks I'll ask here instead of making a new thread. I bought a used Maze 4 GPU block and while the bottom is nice and shiny, there is a one inch scratch that runs down the middle of the block. It's not all that deep but it's more than a light surface scratch. Will this really have any effect on temps or will AS5 take care of it?
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DFI Daishi said:
As a matter of fact, I have heard it first hand. Procooling has a file on this sucker, comparably to Eheim 1048, the DD is unbearable high pitch noise.