Radeon HD 7970 CrossfrieX Issues

Alright, this is probably a dumb question; I'm not nearly as into this stuff as most of you so don't bend me over the barrel, but for all you guys who have 2 or 3 cards like dual 6970s, dual 7970s, two 6950s and a 6970, etc...why not just get one 6990 or a GTX690? Wouldn't that avoid all these ridiculous crossfire issues?

Again, sorry if this is totally obvious...I just don't get why anybody would risk the headache when, for most setups, there are single card solutions available.
 
Some of us started building system before those cards where available. Also some have had good experiences with a certain brand of cards and a lot of folks seem to stick with what they are are used to. I had a awesome setup with my last rig that served me well for 4 years until I built this one.

I was running a black ops motherboard with 4870x2 and 4870. And a quad core q9950 @ 3.83 ghz and it was a amazing I had 0 issues minus a couple of performance hits. I was playing mostly wow and bfbc2 at the time. For the games I was playing I had near 0 issue.

So when building this rig I thought I would go with the same brands intel and amd trifire. This is what my made me choose the 7970. In December/January when I was building the rig that was all that was available top of the line.
 
Well, if those dual slot cards aren't available obviously I get that. I'm more talking about those who buy two tier-2 cards as opposed to one tier-1 card.

I built my last rig about 3 1/2 years ago and I knew very little about GPUs then. I went with dual 4850s in crossfire because I read a review where the author basically said that 2 4850s were even faster than the best $500 nVidia card at the time. I had only budgeted $300 for a graphics card so I thought going crossfire was my best bang for buck. I was shocked to learn that adding an additional card only gave a roughly 40-50% boost. I assumed I would get double. Needless to say, I would've been better off spending that $300 on the best single card available. Aside from the driver-related bugs and issues that go with crossfire, you get the additional heat and noise which nobody talks about.

If you have a guy who can bench press 200lbs and you team him up with his twin brother, they'll actually be able to bench somewhere around 450 - 500lbs. Reason is you get a synergistic boost that works out to be greater than the sum of its parts. Seems silly now, but at the time I assumed it worked the same way with computer hardware. I think the only way I'd consider going back to crossfire/SLI is if the technology ever gets to that point, where 2 cards work better than the sum of 1 card doubled. I'm not even sure if that's possible though.
 
As far as I know, computer (and electronics) follows one law with respect to price and performance, the law of diminishing return. A $600 video card / CPU almost never provide twice the performance of a $300 video card / CPU.

A dual video card setup that provides performance gain of more than 75% is in my view very respectable.
 
shantd said:
Alright, this is probably a dumb question; I'm not nearly as into this stuff as most of you so don't bend me over the barrel, but for all you guys who have 2 or 3 cards like dual 6970s, dual 7970s, two 6950s and a 6970, etc...why not just get one 6990 or a GTX690? Wouldn't that avoid all these ridiculous crossfire issues?

Again, sorry if this is totally obvious...I just don't get why anybody would risk the headache when, for most setups, there are single card solutions available.
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Often times the dual GPU cards are gimped performance wise. Also GPU scaling is often progressively worse as you ass GPUs. The GPU glocks on the dual cards like the GTX 690 are lower, the RAM clocks are I believe about the same, but the dual cards are also limited in terms of VRAM. In contrast the GTX 680's have an option for 4GB of VRAM and higher clocks than a GTX 690 has. For extremely high resolution / multimonitor setups the single GPU cards with more VRAM and higher clock speeds make a lot more sense.
 
mekkanic said:
this thread has convinced me to go 680gtx SLI instead of CrossfireX with 7970's :X
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Well as some folks want to point out there are people running CrossfireX with 7970's without issues. Each setup has it's pros and cons.
 
Dan_D said:
Well as some folks want to point out there are people running CrossfireX with 7970's without issues. Each setup has it's pros and cons.
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I have recently had a ton of issues with my 7970 CrossfireX, very similar to yours.

In several games, the only remedy was/is to revert my driver back to 12.4 and keep my fingers crossed.;)

If i could afford it, I would move on to 680 SLi......but I have two children in college this year.:eek:
 
featsdontfailme said:
I have recently had a ton of issues with my 7970 CrossfireX, very similar to yours.

In several games, the only remedy was/is to revert my driver back to 12.4 and keep my fingers crossed.;)

If i could afford it, I would move on to 680 SLi......but I have two children in college this year.:eek:
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12.4 wasn't stable for me. It was more stable than many of the other drivers I tried but the CrossfireX performance was abysmal. In fact I experienced negative scaling in all the games I tried excluding BF3.
 
Dan_D said:
12.4 wasn't stable for me. It was more stable than many of the other drivers I tried but the CrossfireX performance was abysmal. In fact I experienced negative scaling in all the games I tried excluding BF3.
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I was getting hard locks in several games, using any driver version beyond 12.4

Now with this driver(12.4) and CAPs 12.7 I can at least play DeusEX:HR/Missing Link and MaxPayne3 without freezing randomly.
My utilizations are 90+% on both cards and the FPS seem appropiate.
 
I moved away from 7970 CF as well because although performance wasn't an issue, stability was.
It definitely improved since launch, but it wasn't enough for me to stick with AMD.
Now running a single GTX 680 Lightning and it's doing fine for me, but I may go SLi down the road when the price comes down on these cards.
 
Dan, perhaps a silly question, but indulge me. :) I know you had problems with two cards; did you ever try three?
 
Quartz-1 said:
Dan, perhaps a silly question, but indulge me. :) I know you had problems with two cards; did you ever try three?
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Oh god no. The last thing I was going to do was go out and buy another one of those given all the problems with lockups I had with two. I don't think three would have worked better.
 
Dan_D said:
Well as some folks want to point out there are people running CrossfireX with 7970's without issues. Each setup has it's pros and cons.
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Sure, but empirically, isn't it safe to say you're way more likely to have issues with a pair of AMD cards than you are a pair of nVidias?
 
shantd said:
Sure, but empirically, isn't it safe to say you're way more likely to have issues with a pair of AMD cards than you are a pair of nVidias?
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No, not at all. The sample here is way too small to make that kind of empirical conclusion. A couple of very vocal whiners posting on every enthusiasts forums on the internet is not statistically significant.

Don't forget that both AMD and Nvidia sold millions of cards. Both have their share of problems, be it AMD or Nvidia. But Nvidia drivers are not better then AMD anymore. It's a myth. And Nvidia proven viral progaganda is helping propagating that myth, sadly.

On millions of cards sold, 3 or 4 whiners posting in here won't change the fact that it's not statisticaslly significant, and purely anecdotical only. There is millions of happy AMD and Nvidia owners out there that don't post.

Too much variations between millions of systems out there to make a conclusion based on the 4 or 5 persons posting in here.
 
shantd said:
Sure, but empirically, isn't it safe to say you're way more likely to have issues with a pair of AMD cards than you are a pair of nVidias?
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Given the increased number of threads concerning CrossfireX issues vs. NVIDIA SLI issues on this forum, I'd say yes.
 
Dan_D said:
Given the increased number of threads concerning CrossfireX issues vs. NVIDIA SLI issues on this forum, I'd say yes.
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It all depends were you look, there were issues at the NV forum that was pretty much kept to the NV forum.
I can go to just one of the regular forms with an AMD section and i would pretty much see all the issues, most of the help when it comes to AMD comes from the regular forums where as when it comes to NV the best help comes from the Official NV forum.

I used to see loads of newly signed up members posting issues in the NV forum and that is the only place where they posted them.

The AMD Official forum is a joke, few waste there time posting there.
 
Final8ty said:
It all depends were you look, there were issues at the NV forum that was pretty much kept to the NV forum.
I can go to just one of the regular forms with an AMD section and i would pretty much see all the issues, most of the help when it comes to AMD comes from the regular forums where as when it comes to NV the best help comes from the Official NV forum.

I used to see loads of newly signed up members posting issues in the NV forum and that is the only place where they posted them.

The AMD Official forum is a joke, few waste there time posting there.
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Good point.
 
Dan_D said:
Good point.
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Well it does not help AMDs Image, but that's AMDs fault but then again AMD always has had issues with making a better image for themselves on many levels..

NV Official forum is superior.
 
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Final8ty said:
Well it does not help AMDs Image, but that's AMDs fault but them again AMD always has had issues with making a better image for themselves on many levels..

NV Official forum is superior.
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Agreed.

Too bad the NV Official forum has been down for over a month :/
 
Dan_D said:
Oh god no. The last thing I was going to do was go out and buy another one of those given all the problems with lockups I had with two. I don't think three would have worked better.
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Right. I thought you might at one point or another had one in for review.
 
I take a 'expect the worst' mentality when selecting components, as opposed to 'hope for the best'. Experience has taught me that even the rare issues have a way of tracking me down and surfacing at some point. It's not even uncommon for me to stumble across issues that are otherwise unheard of. Can't tell you how many times I've heard "Wow...I've never seen that before".

I therefore build my rigs assuming that I will encounter at least one issue per component and select my parts accordingly. When you go in with that mentality, stability and reputation become a whole lot more important. Given that, AMD will have to make some major strides before I'm ready to take a chance on them again.
 
Dan_D said:
Oh god no. The last thing I was going to do was go out and buy another one of those given all the problems with lockups I had with two. I don't think three would have worked better.
Click to expand...
I'm here to tell you, three doesn't work any better.
 
Dan_D said:
Brent gets all the cards in for review. I've got plenty of motherboards on hand, but not graphics cards.
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Hehe....you need a deal-o-rama.

Anyway, just as I was about to feel good about my Crossfire and the 12.4 drivers I was talking about......last night the thing started locking up again......I am about done with this.......maybe it's just the 7900 series? I never had these problems with my 6990/6970 triple crossfire......arrrrrrgh.:mad:
 
featsdontfailme said:
Hehe....you need a deal-o-rama.

Anyway, just as I was about to feel good about my Crossfire and the 12.4 drivers I was talking about......last night the thing started locking up again......I am about done with this.......maybe it's just the 7900 series? I never had these problems with my 6990/6970 triple crossfire......arrrrrrgh.:mad:
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Samething for me, I had 3 x 6970 with the same setup as I have now, and swapped for Quad 7970s, and I get instant lockup, does ther same thing with trifire

i7 3930k
RIVE
...
...
...

Hey Dan_D, changing to Nvidia is not an option... honestly, when you have hard time with your kids, do you just RMA them or try to deal with them ?.... ;)
 
So what is the common combination here? It sounds like everyone having this problem has a roughly similar setup.

Here's mine:
3 x 7970s
3 x 120hz monitors, DP connected with no converter
intel 3930k
Latest 12.8 catalyst, but problem has been persistent since launch drivers, with literally every version (and any betas I could get my hands on) in between.
 
Karlitos said:
Samething for me, I had 3 x 6970 with the same setup as I have now, and swapped for Quad 7970s, and I get instant lockup, does ther same thing with trifire

i7 3930k
RIVE
...
...
...

Hey Dan_D, changing to Nvidia is not an option... honestly, when you have hard time with your kids, do you just RMA them or try to deal with them ?.... ;)
Click to expand...

Well you can run through all the stuff I did and see if that works for you. You can also try locking down the PCIe to gen 2.0 and see if that helps. I'll throw out ideas and help you work through it.

Why isn't going NVIDIA an option? (Just curious.)
 
I was kidding bud. ;)

Because I don't want to take apart everything, I still think AMD Hardware is better, the software...NOT.

If you want to refer to my problem, I have a thread going on at OCN.
I did as many test as you. I even flashed my SSDs firmware and updated everything that can be updated.

I can run crossfire on each cards (except 1st and 4th because I don't have a long enough bridge)
But trifire and quadfire gives me instant freeze, I have been looking everything since 3 weeks without any success. I can't RMAanything, except maybe two cards that I bought new less than 70 days ago.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1295809/...70-ccc-12-8-12-x-crash-galore-what-to-do/0_30
 
Strange Issue with Guild War 2. I get 100% GPU usage on the first 7970, but the second 7970 clocks down to 500mhz and stays at 0% GPU usage. I'm on 12.8 and 1.7 cap 3 which have a GW2 dev profile. I've seen a video of GW2 on 5 monitor, and it's using all the GPUs. I have ULPS disabled in TriXX. Running on single 120hz catleap. Is anyone have a solution?
 
knowone said:
Strange Issue with Guild War 2. I get 100% GPU usage on the first 7970, but the second 7970 clocks down to 500mhz and stays at 0% GPU usage. I'm on 12.8 and 1.7 cap 3 which have a GW2 dev profile. I've seen a video of GW2 on 5 monitor, and it's using all the GPUs. I have ULPS disabled in TriXX. Running on single 120hz catleap. Is anyone have a solution?
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My guess is the Crossfire profile is FUBAR.
Did you try making up your own profile using the tools in the CCC?
Crossfire profiles have been known to not work right.....:D
 
featsdontfailme said:
My guess is the Crossfire profile is FUBAR.
Did you try making up your own profile using the tools in the CCC?
Crossfire profiles have been known to not work right.....:D
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Funny i have read the same for SLI profiles.
FM_Fixxxer said:
Sometimes the default SLi setting for the profile sucks I've found. It's really random but it happens. Instead of using "nvidia recommended setting" try each one of the sli settings, AF1/2 etc, and see if one of them works better. Rule that out first.
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http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039077649&postcount=2
 
Karlitos said:
I was kidding bud. ;)

Because I don't want to take apart everything, I still think AMD Hardware is better, the software...NOT.

If you want to refer to my problem, I have a thread going on at OCN.
I did as many test as you. I even flashed my SSDs firmware and updated everything that can be updated.

I can run crossfire on each cards (except 1st and 4th because I don't have a long enough bridge)
But trifire and quadfire gives me instant freeze, I have been looking everything since 3 weeks without any success. I can't RMAanything, except maybe two cards that I bought new less than 70 days ago.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1295809/...70-ccc-12-8-12-x-crash-galore-what-to-do/0_30
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I'd agree. The cards seem to have a better physical build quality and I think it's been that way for several generations. Unfortunately, their drivers have often left something to be desired. You should be able to RMA any or all of your physical cards given that they should all be under warranty. I am not convinced you have a hardware issue, but dropping down to two cards and trying different combinations of them should help narrow that down. Obviously if you pull one and your lockups stop, you've discovered a bad card.
 
Well I got a response from AMD I will go ahead and post it. Pretty much worthless.

Response and Service Request History:

Regarding I get last image frozen on the screen with sometimes a looping sound/buzzing. System is unresponsive and requires powering off the PC. No blue screen and only error I get are on a reboot about power down the system in event viewer.
Single card + Eyefinity is fine. Crossfire + Eyefinity in 2x or 3x crossfire results in a freeze. Crossfire 2x,3x on a single monitor is fine.
I have tested each card individually all run single screen and eyefinity. MB: Asus Rampage 4 Extreme

Here is what the motherboard manufacturer states about the PCI-e slots.
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_2011/Rampage_IV_Extreme#specifications

Expansion Slots
4 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x16; x16/x16; x16/x8/x16 and x16/x8/x8/x8, red) *1
1 x PCIe 3.0/2.0 x16 (x8 mode, gray) *1
1 x PCIe 2.0 x1

Note
*1-1 This motherboard is ready to support PCIe 3.0 SPEC. Functions will be available when using PCIe 3.0-compliant devices. Please refer to www.asus.com for updated details.
*1-2 For PCIe 3.0 x16 (X8 mode), PCIEx8_2B(Grey) shares bandwidth with PCIEx8_2A(Red).

It's difficult to get performance /functions with the above motherboard, so unfortunately we cannot offer a complete fix at this time. For both crossfire and the additional card, AMD offers very limited support since it is such a unique situation with special conditions, we have to make some significant adjustments and accommodations to offer any sort of support.

To use crossfire with “best” performance both PCI-Express slots need to be PCI-E x16 version 2.0 or better.
In the case when two cards are installed the system works with two cards at PCI-E x16 and x8 (means loss of performance, etc)

Then another card is added in a PCI-E x8 slot, which now brings the system to work at a X8 level and other issues arise
This is not a supported option as the features, performance, functions are all curtailed.

The slots here are mechanically PCI-Express x16, but functionally they are X16 and x8 slots.

To get “good performance” with a crossfire setup, we recommend using a motherboard with all PCI-e x16 slots ver 2.0 or higher slots, where all slots work or function at PCI-E X16 at every level.
Thank you.


We understand sometimes circumstances might prevent you from responding with the information within a few days. If we do not hear back from you, the service request will be permanently closed after 10 days. If more time is needed, please reply before the 10 days expire, to ensure this service request remains open.
In order to update this service request, please respond, leaving the service request reference intact.

Best regards,

AMD Global Customer Care

____________________
 
This is absolute nonsense. So they basically stated you need a board with all PCIe x16 2.0 or 3.0 slots for 3-Way CrossfireX?

Bullshit.
 
Yeah complete bullshit. I sent back a response asking why it does the same thing running 2x crossfire with slots at 16x gen2 or gen3. Can't wait for the response on that lol.
 
defcoms said:
Yeah complete bullshit. I sent back a response asking why it does the same thing running 2x crossfire with slots at 16x gen2 or gen3. Can't wait for the response on that lol.
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Thats just dumb.
You should also ask why SLi will work just fine using pretty much any configuration......so.......it's the motherboard's fault.:rolleyes:
 
Here is my actual response:

Also this is the most uninformative response I have gotten in a long time.Never in your response did you state if you were able to replicate the issue. Did you even test this setup or did you just point me to some motherboard spec that I am well aware of.I am calling bullshit on this!

Can you answer this:
Why does the cards still freeze with using crossfire with only 2 cards. With 2 cards the system is running both slots at 16x and I have tested this by setting enabling gen2 in the bios settings. Nothing you stated makes any sense to the issue I am having. If the case is the slots on the Rampage IV extreme why does it not do this using a single monitor while running crossfire


I should have posted that about the sli. I was kind of to pissed to think about it.
 
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