Radeon 6000 series speculation

exlink

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
5,156
They do have board partners, they just aren't going to use them until after they launch. You will see custom boards Q1 2021 with higher power draws I'm sure. AMD is only doing 275w, which leaves a large gap between it and the 3080.
Where are you getting the power consumption numbers? Was it presented today and I missed it or is it based on rumors?
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
Where are you getting the power consumption numbers? Was it presented today and I missed it or is it based on rumors
Sorry, these were still from rumors, some reason I was thinking it was released but it hasn't been yet. Guess that leaves it open still, but hopefully it's 300w or less.
 

exlink

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
5,156
Sorry, these were still from rumors, some reason I was thinking it was released but it hasn't been yet. Guess that leaves it open still, but hopefully it's 300w or less.
You've demonstrated a great understanding of RT in a separate thread and posted a pretty specific power consumption number there...

...by any chance do you work for AMD? :D
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
You've demonstrated a great understanding of RT in a separate thread and posted a pretty specific power consumption number there...

...by any chance do you work for AMD? :D
Lol, no sorry, just a hobby. I used to get pre release hardware (again, as my hobby, not a professional; I would sign NDA, write some fun/cool shaders and send code back, then they would release demos and stuff) when I had a bit more free time (when shaders were still a new concept and fixed pipelines where the norm), but that's no longer the case. I do program professionally, but not games or graphics, haha. I don't know if I'd ever want to do it professionally though, probably not as fun once it's no longer a hobby.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,609
If true then 6900xt is gonna position +/- 3090 range
Well I am hoping AMD does indeed compete at the 3090 level but something like $999 and 32gb which would blow up the whole Nvidia upper end lineup :ROFLMAO: . Still Nvidia compute performance with Ampere took a quantum jump, https://www.thefpsreview.com/category/reviews/video-cards/nvidia-rtx-3000-series/ meaning not so simple to calculate the value. Now the unique new design Cache on the 6000 series is suppose to dramatically increase compute performance so this will be one interesting battle.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,183
MLID claims the 6000 series card they showed today was not the top SKU.


Red gaming tech also said his source that has been really solid about AMD for a while said 6800xt is the one that is wash between 3080 and AMD has something higher. Who knows but knowing lisa how she always shows the best last I am sure this was the SKU right under the top one nipping at the heals of 3080 and 6900xt is close to 3090. He did say 6800xt will be priced cheaper according to source but 6900xt will definitely be more than 3080 he doesn’t know by how much. May be 799-899 if it can be faster then 3080.
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
MLID claims the 6000 series card they showed today was not the top SKU.

That makes almost zero sense... why would they show their top end CPU, hold up their top end card, call it Big Navi, and then show a castrated model? People on the fence about waiting or trying to get a 3080 would just as soon buy the 3080. They want to show their best, and they even claimed it was the "Fastest GPU AMD has made"... so if it's not the top model, where they lying? I dunno, I'm not buying it. Maybe it'll improve some with drivers, etc, but that's probably what we'll end up with, something right about 3080 levels with less power draw and more vRAM. I'd be happy to be wrong and see them really compete, but if this is a 6800xt with only 40 CU's... I find it hard that it would have caught up to the 3080 and the 6900xt with double the CU's would completely destroy the 3090. If they had something that could destroy the 3090 it would be silly for them not to show it and force people to wait. Either way, it seems they'll have some good competition this time around and I'm looking forward to more information, pricing and benchmarks.
 
Joined
May 20, 2016
Messages
794
That makes almost zero sense... why would they show their top end CPU, hold up their top end card, call it Big Navi, and then show a castrated model? People on the fence about waiting or trying to get a 3080 would just as soon buy the 3080. They want to show their best, and they even claimed it was the "Fastest GPU AMD has made"... so if it's not the top model, where they lying? I dunno, I'm not buying it. Maybe it'll improve some with drivers, etc, but that's probably what we'll end up with, something right about 3080 levels with less power draw and more vRAM. I'd be happy to be wrong and see them really compete, but if this is a 6800xt with only 40 CU's... I find it hard that it would have caught up to the 3080 and the 6900xt with double the CU's would completely destroy the 3090. If they had something that could destroy the 3090 it would be silly for them not to show it and force people to wait. Either way, it seems they'll have some good competition this time around and I'm looking forward to more information, pricing and benchmarks.

I think the idea is this is maybe the 80 CU card with 16GBps GDDR6 was shown and they may show a 18GBps version with faster clocks. Something that isn't ready yet because they were waiting to see where the 3080/3090 landed and they are just getting samples of faster RAM now and/or they are still in process of figuring things out because building up inventory of lower yielding golden samples takes time.
 

notarat

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
2,159
AMD needs to give me a reason to buy their card over Nvidia's offerings. Once AMD proves they have solid drivers and features, they can price their cards the same as Nvidia.

No. No they don't. Buy theirs or by the competitor's.
 

NKD

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
8,183
That makes almost zero sense... why would they show their top end CPU, hold up their top end card, call it Big Navi, and then show a castrated model? People on the fence about waiting or trying to get a 3080 would just as soon buy the 3080. They want to show their best, and they even claimed it was the "Fastest GPU AMD has made"... so if it's not the top model, where they lying? I dunno, I'm not buying it. Maybe it'll improve some with drivers, etc, but that's probably what we'll end up with, something right about 3080 levels with less power draw and more vRAM. I'd be happy to be wrong and see them really compete, but if this is a 6800xt with only 40 CU's... I find it hard that it would have caught up to the 3080 and the 6900xt with double the CU's would completely destroy the 3090. If they had something that could destroy the 3090 it would be silly for them not to show it and force people to wait. Either way, it seems they'll have some good competition this time around and I'm looking forward to more information, pricing and benchmarks.
You do realize it was not a GPU event right? AMD would not show the top end SKU at their CPU event when they have dedicated GPU event. May be it could be but I have my doubts. Even then it seems competitive with 3080. so we will find out more. Lisa has a habit of showing her best products last like the 5950x and 3950x. So might be the same this time around.

I don’t see Lisa teasing that top card on a CPU event when a dedicated GPU event is coming. This seems like the card that thrashes the 3070 and gets close to 3080. And they might have another one tipping at the heals of 3090.
 
Last edited:

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
8,958
That makes almost zero sense... why would they show their top end CPU, hold up their top end card, call it Big Navi, and then show a castrated model? People on the fence about waiting or trying to get a 3080 would just as soon buy the 3080. They want to show their best, and they even claimed it was the "Fastest GPU AMD has made"... so if it's not the top model, where they lying? I dunno, I'm not buying it. Maybe it'll improve some with drivers, etc, but that's probably what we'll end up with, something right about 3080 levels with less power draw and more vRAM. I'd be happy to be wrong and see them really compete, but if this is a 6800xt with only 40 CU's... I find it hard that it would have caught up to the 3080 and the 6900xt with double the CU's would completely destroy the 3090. If they had something that could destroy the 3090 it would be silly for them not to show it and force people to wait. Either way, it seems they'll have some good competition this time around and I'm looking forward to more information, pricing and benchmarks.

Because they have PhD's in marketing that work for them, yes they exist in numbers, see the AMA, the American Marketing Association. They know far far far far far more than any of us, assuming none of us have PhD's in marketing, and know how to use psychological tactics in order to drum up such an emotional attachment to the possibilties of what is the come. Just wait and see and don't assume everything is so black and white because it absolutely is not.

If that was indeed AMD's mid sku card then holy fuckin batman they have me hook line and sinker to see what the top Sku can do. I am absolutely waiting to see what they are going to release on the GPU event and then I will show them the money and get me a card or two.
 

dave343

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 17, 2000
Messages
1,783
AMD needs to give me a reason to buy their card over Nvidia's offerings. Once AMD proves they have solid drivers and features, they can price their cards the same as Nvidia.

lol... Once AMD proves they have solid drivers? That's a good one :D (You'll be waiting... (decades))

Seriously thought I'd grab a Navi2 card and dump my 3080 if they showed real promise and hopefully they will. I had the 5700 XT for 6 months and even with black screens, wake from sleep distortion, and Red Dead 2 tessellation issues which took them over a month to address, if not longer, I still love my AMD cards.
 

wizzi01

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
2,739
lol... Once AMD proves they have solid drivers? That's a good one :D (You'll be waiting... (decades))

Seriously thought I'd grab a Navi2 card and dump my 3080 if they showed real promise and hopefully they will. I had the 5700 XT for 6 months and even with black screens, wake from sleep distortion, and Red Dead 2 tessellation issues which took them over a month to address, if not longer, I still love my AMD cards.

My 1080ti has black screen issues and issues with not going to sleep. Both sides have driver issues.
 

exlink

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
5,156
My 1080ti has black screen issues and issues with not going to sleep. Both sides have driver issues.
I haven’t had any issues with my 1080 Ti for the past three years. Has been flawless. Driver issues for both sides seem to vary on a case by case basis. My experience has been more positive with Nvidia drivers but AMD drivers aren’t as bad as some people make them out to be.
 

Evil Scooter

2[H]4U
Joined
Sep 22, 2000
Messages
2,514
I haven’t had any issues with my 1080 Ti for the past three years. Has been flawless. Driver issues for both sides seem to vary on a case by case basis. My experience has been more positive with Nvidia drivers but AMD drivers aren’t as bad as some people make them out to be.

1080ti has been far from flawless, but more inconvenient than any show stoppers. The drivers still like to move the taskbar randomly.. or drop out of SLI & improperly span the display's. Actually had them running pretty solid until EA forced driver updates for BF5. Then things went to pot fast.

Mind you.. the above aint no pimp for ATI/AMD. I've had similar or worse issues with Radeons.
 

Nebell

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,905
I have not had AMD card for 20 years, back when they were called ATI. The last card was ATI Rage 2 I think. A pretty shitty card lol. I bought Nvidia after that and that's the reason why I never looked back.
There's a chance I will buy AMD this gen. Makes me a bit wary.
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
1080ti has been far from flawless, but more inconvenient than any show stoppers. The drivers still like to move the taskbar randomly.. or drop out of SLI & improperly span the display's. Actually had them running pretty solid until EA forced driver updates for BF5. Then things went to pot fast.

Mind you.. the above aint no pimp for ATI/AMD. I've had similar or worse issues with Radeons.
I have not had AMD card for 20 years, back when they were called ATI. The last card was ATI Rage 2 I think. A pretty shitty card lol. I bought Nvidia after that and that's the reason why I never looked back.
There's a chance I will buy AMD this gen. Makes me a bit wary.
I guess it's just hit or miss really, I currently have 6 desktops all running AMD cards with zero issues ever. My work laptop has an RTX Quadro 3000 running the professional drivers and they cause it to crashe once every ~2 days while doing almost nothing (outlook, visual studio, web browser). I've seen people have issues with both, just seems if you get unlucky with one or the other it makes it hard to trust them for your next purchase, but by and far there are a lot more people with no issues than issues for both, but that doesn't help when you're the one facing problems :).

Anyways, not to much longer and we'll get the announcement and followed soon by reviews for the 6000 xt series. We won't really get a feel for drivers until they are in peoples hands. Judging by the issues with nvidia's launch (limited supply, rushed launch, overboost causing crashes, black screens and game issues), I feel like people will give AMD a little more interest than they have in the past so hopefully they can deliver on the hardware and software side of things.
 

sirmonkey1985

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
22,228
That makes almost zero sense... why would they show their top end CPU, hold up their top end card, call it Big Navi, and then show a castrated model? People on the fence about waiting or trying to get a 3080 would just as soon buy the 3080. They want to show their best, and they even claimed it was the "Fastest GPU AMD has made"... so if it's not the top model, where they lying? I dunno, I'm not buying it. Maybe it'll improve some with drivers, etc, but that's probably what we'll end up with, something right about 3080 levels with less power draw and more vRAM. I'd be happy to be wrong and see them really compete, but if this is a 6800xt with only 40 CU's... I find it hard that it would have caught up to the 3080 and the 6900xt with double the CU's would completely destroy the 3090. If they had something that could destroy the 3090 it would be silly for them not to show it and force people to wait. Either way, it seems they'll have some good competition this time around and I'm looking forward to more information, pricing and benchmarks.

could be that the top model comes with a hybrid water cooler setup again like furyX and that can usually be a hard sell and a crap ton of meme's if they showed it. but i doubt it.
 

vegeta535

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
4,831
That's fine by me. What's wrong with offering the item at near the same price if it has near the same performance?
Didn't you hear AMD is charity and cares about giving the consumer the best value to game. Profits be damned!
 

kirbyrj

Fully [H]
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
26,844
That's fine by me. What's wrong with offering the item at near the same price if it has near the same performance?

The issue is that all things being equal (price/performance, etc.), people will tend to buy Nvidia. If you're trying to build market share, you have to give people a compelling reason to pick your product over the competitor. Whether that be a superior product (unlikely this go around) or a better price for the relative performance (more likely).

I get that it's a business, and they want to make money for the shareholders, etc., but you have to sell cards to make money.

If the "preview" numbers turn out to be a realistic representation of the performance, I would think that the price would then be in the $599-$649 range.
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
The issue is that all things being equal (price/performance, etc.), people will tend to buy Nvidia. If you're trying to build market share, you have to give people a compelling reason to pick your product over the competitor. Whether that be a superior product (unlikely this go around) or a better price for the relative performance (more likely).

I get that it's a business, and they want to make money for the shareholders, etc., but you have to sell cards to make money.

If the "preview" numbers turn out to be a realistic representation of the performance, I would think that the price would then be in the $599-$649 range.
They are trying int to sell the products they can make. If they are at max capacity, you sell for what you can get. If your make 100k and can sell them all @ $700.... Or you can lower the price and sell them all @ $500... Which one makes sense? You aren't gaining market share if you cant make or sell more.... So you price supply vs demand, like everyone does. Demand is slowly going up and supply is limited by what TSMC can pump out, you don't just price low and expect market share to go up unless you have the supply to keep up, which we don't know.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
5,609
The issue is that all things being equal (price/performance, etc.), people will tend to buy Nvidia. If you're trying to build market share, you have to give people a compelling reason to pick your product over the competitor. Whether that be a superior product (unlikely this go around) or a better price for the relative performance (more likely).

I get that it's a business, and they want to make money for the shareholders, etc., but you have to sell cards to make money.

If the "preview" numbers turn out to be a realistic representation of the performance, I would think that the price would then be in the $599-$649 range.
Nvidia is just not selling that many 3000 series cards so far, got to make them, have them available for buyers to buy. AMD could come in and sell 10x - 100x more cards if they had them available and they are decent. Current generation market share can turn on a dime so to speak. AIB models are continually jacking up in price as time goes on, the 3070 and 3060 will be their bread and butter in the end but Nvidia will have to have them readily and easily obtainable at an affordable price.
 

big_aug

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
2,146
If they can come close to a 3080 at a lower price, I'll buy one because I want to build a 5900x rig and can't get a 3080.
 

oldmanbal

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 27, 2010
Messages
2,275
when running my 5700xt on an intel rig, i had black screens several times a day, when I switch to a 3600 rig for that card, never had a single crash or black screen again. I think it all comes down to hardware, and why we aren't seeing the crashes as consistently across the board, these are the toughest to nail down at the driver level.
 

tangoseal

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 18, 2010
Messages
8,958
when running my 5700xt on an intel rig, i had black screens several times a day, when I switch to a 3600 rig for that card, never had a single crash or black screen again. I think it all comes down to hardware, and why we aren't seeing the crashes as consistently across the board, these are the toughest to nail down at the driver level.

Did you reinstall an OS when you went to AMD CPU? If you did only a hardware swap I suspect youre on to something but if you did a fresh OS install then your hypothesis cant be supported.
 

MrGuvernment

Fully [H]
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
19,443
5700XT had tons of articles about the black screens and ways to fix it, most of it was a clean OS install I recall...
 

Reality

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 16, 2003
Messages
1,899
I have not had AMD card for 20 years, back when they were called ATI. The last card was ATI Rage 2 I think. A pretty shitty card lol. I bought Nvidia after that and that's the reason why I never looked back.
There's a chance I will buy AMD this gen. Makes me a bit wary.
you must've loved your geforce fx 5800 instead of the vastly superior ati 9700 pro
 

Ready4Dis

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
2,369
I'm still waiting on the DirectML DLSS competitor so people can stop talkinng about it. I mean, it's a good way to lower your IQ to gain FPS, like most settings, but this one sometimes has near indistinguishable visual quality and other times it's got a few issues, so its kind of hit or miss, but in general it seems to have finally gotten to the point of working well enough. I'm more interested in actual benchmarks, power draw and raster performance.... I run a mini ITX so getting heat out is a concern, if I can get 3080 performance with less power, it's a win for my PSU and for my case fans :). DLSS is not a deal breaker for me, neither is RT, but if it has it, even better. If it doesn't, then that's ok to as long as it's competitive and priced right, and by priced right I mean priced lower than the 3080 20gb model. If it's got the same raster and almost 2x the ram, I don't expect to pay less than a 3080 for it like some people seem to think they should.
 

MangoSeed

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Messages
1,439
DLSS 2.0 may be good but it is not a game changer for me.

If you have a choice of 2 products with the same price and performance then the obvious tie breaker is extra features. It’s better to have a feature supported by a few games than none at all. So putting brand preference aside AMD has to offer more value either through higher fps/$ or catching up on the feature set.
 

DrDoU

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
2,625
My experience is ddu will not get everything if you change gpu vendors (nvidia/amd ).sometimes the OS must be reinstalled.
 

notarat

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
2,159
If you have a choice of 2 products with the same price and performance then the obvious tie breaker is extra features. It’s better to have a feature supported by a few games than none at all. So putting brand preference aside AMD has to offer more value either through higher fps/$ or catching up on the feature set.

If I do not use those extra features, and I don't, they're worthless in comparing the products.
 
Top