I'm in the exact same boat, it's getting to the point where I can't hold off any longer, the 6950 2gb just doesn't cut it any more. I think even if there is some major improvement it might not matter based on the games coming out over the next year or so, but it will matter if still have a 6950.
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[R9 290X vs 780 Ti] HardOCP doesn't brown nose nVidia like all the other reviewers.
- Thread starter chanchan
- Start date
I'm in the exact same boat, it's getting to the point where I can't hold off any longer, the 6950 2gb just doesn't cut it any more. I think even if there is some major improvement it might not matter based on the games coming out over the next year or so, but it will matter if still have a 6950.
stealthy123
2[H]4U
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The new cards on the new process almost always start with low end and move up, and seem to take a while for the manufacturers to iron out, so it's usually the 2nd product release that gets the full benefit from the process shrink.
for 400 bucks the radeon 290 offers value that I seriously doubt will ever lead to regrets.
for 400 bucks the radeon 290 offers value that I seriously doubt will ever lead to regrets.
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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One thing to keep in mind about moving to a new node is that at the very least you get to throw more transistors at the problem. Note that that's what AMD did for the 290's- it's just a bigger HD7900 die. More shader processors, etc. Moving to whatever's next for TSMC would mean more shaders on both companies' next GPUs.
Cool Vibrations
Gawd
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Are you a Titan owner? If so, how do you feel that Nvidia has been sitting on the 780ti just so they can milk as much cashflow as they did with the Titan?
Personally, I feel betrayed... had I known they were just going to release the Ti, I wouldn't have gone through purchasing one. NVIDIA probably figured, hey let's save the best for last. So what do they do? They unlocked the GPU completely meaning all 2880 Shader processors are available and let's also enable the last SMX processor so 15/15 as opposed to 14/15 on the Titan.
But I learned my lesson, go stick with your team green and keep buying their overpriced cards. They need people like you anyways.
cannondale06
[H]F Junkie
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Titan is 9 months old so at what point would you be okay with Nvidia releasing a faster card? they just released the full 2880 version for quadro too you know. just maybe having a fully functional chip was not possible until recently.
orangekiwii
Limp Gawd
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Exactly the reason why AMD fans are terrible.
And no, I'm not a titan owner. I recommend AMD cards exclusively since they're the best price/performance. I have a 580 that I've been using since launch since I haven't felt the need to upgrade. Whether Nvidia shafted you or not (hint they didn't you paid for it) it doesn't change the fact AMD fucking sucks at competing with nvidia. Nvidia has been the dominant force in the market for the better part of a decade. AMD has done fucking nothing and has been playing catchup for all but one release cycle. I will continue to recommend amd cards since they have the best price/performance but don't even pretend that amd is fucking competitive. nvidia could push amd out of the graphics card market if they wanted to.
Intel is to amd in cpus as nvidia is to amd in gpus. It's embarassing.
I also like how you imply they 'need people like me' when I couldn't give a rats ass about the gpu I have in my system. Keep thinking you're superior to everyone else though because 'only rich dumbshits buy nvidia'.
I'm fucking embarassed for you. You bought a titan with your own money then feel like you got ripped off. Congratulations. It's evident who the dumbass is in this conversation.
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orangekiwii
Limp Gawd
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I am mad. This entire forum is filled with more than their fair share of degenerates giving a handy to AMD. Anyone who presents themselves as objective (even ignoring the nvidia fanboys) are immediately dismissed by the vast majority of posters as nvidiots.
I've been reading this forum for years and have watched it decay into a pallid imitation of what it once was. My posts add nothing to this forum but I wanted to vent a bit about how fucking retarded threads like this are.
"Every review except one is brown nosing nvidia" How do these people even fucking exist with logic as retarded as theirs.
It's also the fact that 290x beats titan by 5% - it's amazing, fantastic, real contribution to the gpu market.
780ti beats 290x by 5% - it's garbage there's no point for anyone to buy the card
The thing people are missing is that AMD is fucking 7 months late. People for 7 months could have had 290x performance. Buy a 780 and overclock it a bit and you've got 290x performance for 100 more $ 7 months early. No one cares to make that comparison though because that would show that AMD has done fucking nothing at all.
Nobody's missing anything because its a moot point you are making a big deal out of. BTW you just ignored my last response.you're post is just full of emotion and fail to see the fact that the 780ti trades blows and its not a clear victory at all. 290x still holds the 4k and up crown
-"They are 7 months late" (grats on the moral victory you can join the Titan owners parade)
-You paid a premium for those 7 mos. this release made high end/resolution gaming affordable for many (They sure have done nothing at all)
-290x was the cause of the price drops and release of the 780ti
-This card is for people that did not choose to buy a Titan/780. Conversely: Nvidia buyer's can now get a killer deal on 780 Lightning (fantastic card)
-You can overclock a 290x/290 (soon enough with non ref cooler). Watercoolers are reporting some great overclocks. Card is a beast
-Nvidia has nothing to compete with the 290.
With all the price cutting and Nvidia getting caught with its pants down , how much profit are they making/losing on each card now with serious competition?
AMD was late but they are still gonna sell a shitload of Hawaii cards
Worth mentioning: Per crossfire/sli reviews Nvidia is having problems at 4k and SLI drivers
edit: I think 780ti is the best single gpu just not for the money... only if they drop the price about $75-100 or give it 6gb ffs
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when the 290x beat the 780, AMD charged less money for it, when the ti beat the 290x by a similar amount, they charged a 150 price premium for the privilege to own one.
Seems pretty clear to me why the reaction is different.
trungracingdev
Gawd
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common sense right? some people just lack it
maboblivion
[H]ard|Gawd
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Nvidia released a card 7 months and 6days later than amd and only affords em 5% more performance. How do you explain that ? before that, it gets even funnier .
The hd 7970 enjoyed a three months at the top and nvidia released their "mid range card" (as some nvidia fans will debate) and from day 1, DAY ONEEE the 7970 could clock above 1ghz and match the 680 turbo boost. Yet with no boost it was 680s victory.
We're [H]ere. We love technology ,whois gonna play games and not overclock when all the latest boards can go above 1050 mhz seriously. Even amd's latest card(if u can stand the pain of 100% fan on the 290
)
Nvidia sure did a good advancement in technology with boost as it took overclocking worries out of noobs hands. Gotta give em that. As we can see with the r200 series , they forced amds to make their own. As with crossfire, their dynamic clock mechanism will take some time to get used to.
*cough* heat!!* cough* heat!!
We need competition and less thread crapping when people have opinions that differs from others. $/ temperature/heat/apis/dba , they are all subjective per individual.
got lots of money have 2 titans! your ears bleed when u hear fans? have some headphones! can't stand the heat? here have some water! physx ?mantle? none will prevent you from playing a game, but it might be more enjoyable on the other brand.
Now if intel could just get their igpu ducks in a row , we'd have a Mexican standoff
Also7 months ago the 780 was 645$ You could've gotten 2x7950 for 100$ more like most people here did. (even with poor frame pacing )
Also it is quite unusual to have the two companies releasing their main card within days of each other. Usualy it's months or at least a few weeks .
Bring on 3rd party heatsinks and mantle.
:rant:
Other review sites have had trouble understanding that quiet throttles the gpu to keep it quiet and performs worse than uber. and supposedly the excuse is the two words "UP TO" .
My 290x isn t running at 1000 all the timeeeeeeeee, for real ? UP TO 1000 , they wouldn t have needed to put the words UP TO if it was 1000 all the time (except for uber in most cases)
::end rant:
only site who seemed to have understood that day 1 was hardocp.
The hd 7970 enjoyed a three months at the top and nvidia released their "mid range card" (as some nvidia fans will debate) and from day 1, DAY ONEEE the 7970 could clock above 1ghz and match the 680 turbo boost. Yet with no boost it was 680s victory.
We're [H]ere. We love technology ,whois gonna play games and not overclock when all the latest boards can go above 1050 mhz seriously. Even amd's latest card(if u can stand the pain of 100% fan on the 290
)Nvidia sure did a good advancement in technology with boost as it took overclocking worries out of noobs hands. Gotta give em that. As we can see with the r200 series , they forced amds to make their own. As with crossfire, their dynamic clock mechanism will take some time to get used to.
*cough* heat!!* cough* heat!!
We need competition and less thread crapping when people have opinions that differs from others. $/ temperature/heat/apis/dba , they are all subjective per individual.
got lots of money have 2 titans! your ears bleed when u hear fans? have some headphones! can't stand the heat? here have some water! physx ?mantle? none will prevent you from playing a game, but it might be more enjoyable on the other brand.
Now if intel could just get their igpu ducks in a row , we'd have a Mexican standoff
Also7 months ago the 780 was 645$ You could've gotten 2x7950 for 100$ more like most people here did. (even with poor frame pacing
)Also it is quite unusual to have the two companies releasing their main card within days of each other. Usualy it's months or at least a few weeks .
Bring on 3rd party heatsinks and mantle.
:rant:
Other review sites have had trouble understanding that quiet throttles the gpu to keep it quiet and performs worse than uber. and supposedly the excuse is the two words "UP TO" .
My 290x isn t running at 1000 all the timeeeeeeeee, for real ? UP TO 1000 , they wouldn t have needed to put the words UP TO if it was 1000 all the time (except for uber in most cases)
::end rant:
only site who seemed to have understood that day 1 was hardocp.
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New driver variances are fixed (not confirmed): http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/latest-catalyst-windows-beta.aspx
Brackle
Old Timer
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This is why I come to [H] for reviews. They actually do what we do....PLAY THE GAMES.
I don't think anyone has beatin 3dmark yet....its 1 tough game.
I don't think anyone has beatin 3dmark yet....its 1 tough game.
I love Toms Hardware reason for blatantly gimping their 290x performance.
Haha oh brother....crank the fan to 50%?
People keep whining about GTX 480 noise levels, but mine is barely audible.
I game at 95+% load and 26C ambient, and my 480 never exceeds 85C and floats about 60/61% fan speed. (I tried to find some video/sounds of 60% fan speed but all of them out there only have idle/100% fan comparisons. -.-)
hell this guy practically corroborates me: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1036067396#post1036067396 http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1036067569#post1036067569
Are people not allowed to have their preferences? As long as those preferences don't negatively influence their content and they provide you with all the factual information available to them, what does it matter?
EDIT: To be honest, I only ever seeing myself personally using Nvidia card; because to me what extras they offer are worth it. For my friends and family who don't NEED these features? I suggest they go for AMD GPU's. (but not the noisy ones)
I game at 95+% load and 26C ambient, and my 480 never exceeds 85C and floats about 60/61% fan speed. (I tried to find some video/sounds of 60% fan speed but all of them out there only have idle/100% fan comparisons. -.-)
hell this guy practically corroborates me: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1036067396#post1036067396 http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1036067569#post1036067569
Are people not allowed to have their preferences? As long as those preferences don't negatively influence their content and they provide you with all the factual information available to them, what does it matter?
EDIT: To be honest, I only ever seeing myself personally using Nvidia card; because to me what extras they offer are worth it. For my friends and family who don't NEED these features? I suggest they go for AMD GPU's. (but not the noisy ones)
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This is a somewhat puzzling accusation since the AnandTech site is sponsored by AMD and they even have an AMD-funded section on their site, rife with all the AMD PR tweets and the like. To even imply that AT is somehow putting the screws to AMD and being "dirty" is baffling.
I basically look at the Ti as something that NVIDIA isn't even that interested in selling. I don't think they're focused on competing w/ AMD in terms of sales with this card. To me it seems like something they just whipped together to make sure they're back at the top of the performance charts. If they wanted to beat AMD they would have sold it for $575.
Brackle
Old Timer
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True, but he speaks the truth, the 290 review shows biased pretty bad.....Anandtech in my book cannot be trusted now with reviews.
the 580 is as loud as a 290, yet the 580 is OK to use and the 290 is not?....yea
trungracingdev
Gawd
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Even $599 would've been reasonable, but of course that's not gonna happen...
people (and industries) change over time, along with this so do expectations.
besides the quantitative data between two differing test environments are incomparable.
I've seen this so much this year and I find it totally fascinating. It's like people want us to believe that they have no control over their spending habits and the choices they make. NVIDIA "forced" you to be ripped off.
How many times have people here insisted that NVIDIA is "raping" people with their prices? I think these folks don't understand what "rape" means. Rape involves coercion. Flipping over to Amazon and staring at the ad copy for 10 minutes and then freely, of your own volition, entering in your credit card number and shipping address is a choice that you make. It was not forced on you. If it was a bone-headed move on your part, then take responsibility and don't blame the seller. If you paid X dollars for a GPU, then at that moment you thought that very GPU was of greater value than those X dollars in-hand. The seller sold you something of greater value than your money.
So if you blew a full grand on a Titan for gaming and you don't do CUDA development, then let's just acknowledge the reality: you're Daddy Warbucks and you love to throw your money around like there's no tomorrow. Good for you. But take responsibility for your decision. You knew the specs when you bought it. NVIDIA releasing a faster GPU in the future is not some kind of mortal sin that should well up contempt. What they sell is based on the market conditions and pressures. We can all be sure that nine months from now there will be faster and better tech on the market.
Now I'm not saying it isn't reasonable to criticize something for being overpriced. I think Intel is overpriced. I think Apple is overpriced. I think a Titan is overpriced for gaming (but a downright steal for CUDA work). But it's different to argue something is overpriced vs. "I got screwed by buying something that was completely optional."
AT always has its biases. All reviewers do. Anybody who claims to be "objective" is lying.
But the 580 vs 290 comparison is silly. The guy said back then that he didn't think the 580 was loud. What he said with the 290 was that it was the "loudest" of the cards in the test results. That's a relative term. It's the loudest of the cards in the bunch. Expectations of speed, power use, noise, etc. change as tech evolves.
Brackle
Old Timer
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What the review said about the 580 vs the 290 below:
Lets see what Ryan Smith said at the GTX 580 launch (44.4db Idle - 57.1db Load).
Load
Quote:
the GTX 580 is not whisper quiet, but at no point in our testing did it ever get loud.
Now lets see what he just said about the R9 290 (39.5db Idle - 57.2db Load).
Load
Quote:
With the 290 AMD has thrown out any kind of reasonable noise parameters
Consistency, that is."
So the 580 is not quiet, but it didnt get loud at 57.1 DB then the 290 is 57.2 db is unreasonable?....i dunno I mean yea...
When a Core 2 Duo was released, it was fast.
A processor released today that's faster than a Core 2 Duo is not necessarily going to be considered "fast" for today. It could very well be considered "slowest among all the tested processors". Because these are relative perceptions that change with time. It is expected today that CPUs should be significantly faster than a C2D. Phones should be faster today than they were two years ago. And GPUs should be quieter today than they were during the Fermi generation.
Brackle
Old Timer
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So the Intel 2011 stock cooler should be quieter then the C2D stock cooler (which it isnt?)
You do realize sometimes new tech uses more power/heat to product a faster product?
GPU's don't have to be quieter then the last generation, I mean if that was the case, the 780ti should of been whisper quiet compared to the 8800 Ultra....
IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
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It's not just the Nvidia fanboys that are claiming that it's loud- it's just fricking loud. The GTX580 was loud, too. The community complained, Nvidia listened, AMD didn't.
Are you going to keep claiming that coolers shouldn't get better over time? That the standard shouldn't be raised?
It's fine if you do. The rest of us have moved on.
Brackle
Old Timer
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I mean I know Nvidia listens, those coolers fucking rock period, but do you think a $150 premium over a 290x is worth it? O hell no. You can even pick up a Accelero cooler for $70, and still save $80 over the the 780ti.
If that isn't biased...
I know loudness is subjective but to recommend/not recommend is absurd really. There are too many factors involved..Case quality, room acoustics, carpet vs hard wood floors, headphones. Has there ever been a high end card that didn't go above 50 db? People act like this is new.
Maybe I'm just old school I had a 5800ultra to a 4870x2 its never been an issue or my hearing is fading. Soon to be 290 with an EK waterblock not for noise but overclocking . To put it all in perspective db chart http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html
Brackle
Old Timer
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If that isn't biased...
I know loudness is subjective but to recommend/not recommend is absurd really. There are too many factors involved..Case quality, room acoustics, carpet vs hard wood floors, headphones. Has there ever been a high end card that didn't go above 50 db? People act like this is new.
To put it all in perspective db chart http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html
Exactly 57db is 57db, Don't matter how/why/who/where. You cannot say 57db is ok for 1 product, then its not for the other...
Shrug either way. I went Nvidia because of the damn good prices for the lightnings. the 290's are great value, and im glad [H] shows the true performance and noise it produces.
We know the complaints are valid his point is the goal posts change of Anand's reviewer reeks of bias. According to the db chart I linked and increase of 1 db is 'Imperceptible Change'
Actually, no it is not. There are many different kinds of noises and even at the same decibel level one noise can be a lot more painful than another. At the same db the sound of air moving will be many times less annoying than fan whine. I'm not saying that is the case here, but you can't make an argument based on false blanket statement.
Brackle
Old Timer
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So if airplane 1 products 250db of sound, compared to another new airplane that did 250db, it would be different/quieter because its new? Eventhough its still 250db?
And how are my statements false? The 580 is 57.1db and the 290 is 57.2db, and that was from Anandtech themselves.
In no way did I make false statements. I took Anandtech 2 reviews, and showed how biased Ryan Smith is being.
Exactly how different are 2 video card coolers...Nvidia does a 'whoosh' AMD has a 'whoooo"
This is an apples to apples decibel comparo
Brackle
Old Timer
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Exactly how different are 2 video card coolers...Nvidia does a 'whoosh' AMD has a 'whoooo"
its different because Nvidia is ok to get 57db, when AMD is not allowed.....0_o
maboblivion
[H]ard|Gawd
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it's kinda funny ,ppl watching videos and their audio cards amp the sound more and they are all its intolerable!! stay away!!!
But there's no JET turbine until 70%.
If u value silence just don t buy it , but don't make it seem like in a case with 2 fans and a loud stock
intel fan that someone would notice more air.
Saw a video of a guy making db reading with his phone on an app and it read much louder than what i was hearing. I'm starting to wonder if some of the sound values that are out there are from ppl just using what they got @ hand.
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Power-Sound-
other sites all seem to test sound outside the case @ 1 feet or something , very real world conclusive.
But there's no JET turbine until 70%.
If u value silence just don t buy it , but don't make it seem like in a case with 2 fans and a loud stock
intel fan that someone would notice more air.
Saw a video of a guy making db reading with his phone on an app and it read much louder than what i was hearing. I'm starting to wonder if some of the sound values that are out there are from ppl just using what they got @ hand.
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...CrossFire-and-4K-Preview-Testing/Power-Sound-
other sites all seem to test sound outside the case @ 1 feet or something , very real world conclusive.
250db is a hell of a lot different than 57. Slight changes from how a sound...err...Sounds at 250db are radically different than a 57db fan. What I was saying is false is your blanket statement that noise is noise. I have never used either card so I can not comment on how they sound in comparison, I was simply stating that you can't judge based purely on one number.
As to your silly question about quieter cause it's newer (fair warning: I have been away for 21 hours at the moment, not 100% awake): I think you are massively missing the point being made against your claims. Until recently pretty much every stock cooler for a GPU was loud. Some were unreasonably loud (I remember the old "Jet engine" stock coolers from 5-6 years ago) and others were just loud. The 580 was loud in a time when that was expected. That has changed. It hasn't changed "because it's newer" it's changed because people's expectations have been altered. AMD and Nvidia both changed people's expectations. Using your pure decibels argument the 290 and 290X are louder than the 7970 and Titan/780/780Ti/770 stock coolers. I don't clearly remember the numbers but I'm reasonably sure it's louder than the 6970 and 680 stock coolers as well. We expect better performance and lower noise from stock coolers now because AMD and Nvidia have made us expect that. Beyond that, noise has become a lot more of a factor in enthusiast builds in the last couple years. Back when the 580 was out I would have been one of the people to say "noise doesn't matter". Now? I couldn't stand listening to a card like the 290X while playing games for more than five minutes. My reasoning has nothing to do with brand bias or any bull shit like that, I simply value silence more now than I used to. Times change and people's values change. You are instantly jumping to bias in order to defend the 290X and yet on a grand total of 13 hours of sleep over the last four days and having been up since 5am yesterday morning (It's currently 2:08am) I can provide a reasonable alternative that is just as likely.
Brackle
Old Timer
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So basically your trying to to say Nvidia's 57db is different then AMD's..../facepalm.
Gotcha Nvidia is OK, and AMD is not.
Are you intentionally missing the point or are you fucking blind?