[R9 290X vs 780 Ti] HardOCP doesn't brown nose nVidia like all the other reviewers.

FrameBuffer said:
Is there some sort of NDA that prevents reviewers from releasing/publishing the supplied Nvidia’s Reviewer’s Guide ? Such as the one sent out with the 780Ti that directed reviewers to compare the 780Ti vs the 290X in "Quiet Mode".

Kind of ballsy (yet understandable after all nv wants their product shown in the best possible scenario) IMHO, that they want reviewers to compare to the default (quiet mode) knowing that the 1st thing 90% of the users of such cards are going to do is flip it to "Uber" (god I HATE that marketing name) !

Oddly ironic that nV had no problems ensuring that GTX Titan reviews made sure the enabled DP in drivers (set as OFF as default)..

a bit hypocritical if you ask me.. "yes change our settings to maximize performance but make sure same is not done in competing product"
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Apparently AnandTech didn't get that memo because IIRC they compared to the 290X in Uber mode. Then again, AT is an AMD-sponsored site. Not that there's really that much difference between Quiet and Uber mode from what I've seen.

And I'm not following your point about the Titan. Why would NVIDIA ask reviewers to enable DP mode since that's only going to hinder gaming benchmarks? And if doing benchmarks for CUDA it would make sense to enable it. I'm not seeing the scandal here. For gaming you should have that disabled and then for CUDA you'll want to enable it. That's the appropriate user behavior.
 
cageymaru said:
Completely off topic, but what can you do with the CUDA cores in the Titan? I can render video in real time on my 7950's so when I stream or capture game play videos it doesn't tax my CPU. Are there applications or uses like that for the Titan's abundance of CUDA cores? I use Open Broadcaster to do that.

Just curious. :)
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I don't think there is much consumer software out there that takes advantage of CUDA. Blender is one I know of. CUDA is used more for research and computation-heavy scientific applications, modeling, etc.
 
Quick tip people: Heat is a measured in Joules. Watts is a rate of heat, aka a unit of power. Watts = Joules per second. Temperature is a measurement of how hot something is.

If you say 95C is hotter than 80C that is true. Temperature is how we measure hotness. If you say something draws more power, or creates more heat, you're walking about watts. If something draws 80 watts more it creates more heat.
 
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jwcalla said:
I don't think there is much consumer software out there that takes advantage of CUDA. Blender is one I know of. CUDA is used more for research and computation-heavy scientific applications, modeling, etc.
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I lurk over on the Reduser.net forums as a fly on the wall, and the they seem to be able to use all the CUDA cores they can get for editing 6K raw RED footage. The limiting factor for their use is usually how much RAM they can get on the video card, so the Titan was a god-send of an alternative to a $5000 Quadro card.
 
I am just curious, for those saying "AMD was late" late doing what, they release cards when they are ready to release cards, that issue comes from like 10 years ago when both AMD and NVIDIA had a tendency to release cards with in weeks of each other, which was nice, it made it easier for us...

No one is "late" at anything, so drop that argument AMD release a late card, did AMD say they were releasing the 290 series 9 months ago and were late doing so? If so i must of missed that

I do recall AMD saying they weren't competing with nvidia on the high end last year cause that not where the money is and all that would come out this year was a rehash...
 
jwcalla said:
Apparently AnandTech didn't get that memo because IIRC they compared to the 290X in Uber mode. Then again, AT is an AMD-sponsored site. Not that there's really that much difference between Quiet and Uber mode from what I've seen.

And I'm not following your point about the Titan. Why would NVIDIA ask reviewers to enable DP mode since that's only going to hinder gaming benchmarks? And if doing benchmarks for CUDA it would make sense to enable it. I'm not seeing the scandal here. For gaming you should have that disabled and then for CUDA you'll want to enable it. That's the appropriate user behavior.
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re-read Anand's 780Ti review again, they used Quiet Mode in single card comparison and used (recycled) "Uber-Mode" crossfire numbers from their previous 290X review instead of re-running benches with newer drivers.

From Page 3:
Meanwhile on a housekeeping note, we want to quickly point out that we’ll be deviating a bit from our normal protocol and including the 290X results for both normal (quiet) and uber modes. Typically we’d only include results from the default mode in articles such as these, but since we need to cover SLI/Crossfire performance and since we didn’t have 290X CF quiet mode results for our initial 290X review, we’re throwing in both so that we can compare the GTX 780 Ti to the 290X CF without being inconsistent by suddenly switching to the lower performance quiet mode numbers. Though with that said, for the purposes of our evaluation we will be focusing almost entirely on the quiet mode numbers, given the vast difference in both performance and noise that comes from using it.
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With regard to Titan DP/Cuda option, the point is that Anandtech's "policy" is to compare products "out of box" (ie as delivered, no options selected/enabled other than delievered) and thus their reasoning for NOT enabling "Uber-Mode",.. YET as shown with the Titan, Anandtech has a history of altering options to attain best (DP compute) performance that IS NOT enabled by default.. ie they chose to enable one option (DP Cuda) and no another ("Uber-Mode") .. if you can't see the conflicting side in that well, .. yeah
 
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bexamous said:
Quick tip people: Heat is a measured in Joules. Watts is a rate of heat, aka a unit of power. Watts = Joules per second. Temperature is a measurement of how hot something is.

If you say 95C is hotter than 80C that is true. Temperature is how we measure hotness. If you say something draws more power, or creates more heat, you're walking about watts. If something draws 80 watts more it creates more heat.
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a bit more OT..
IIRC Watts is a measure of energy, similar to "Horsepower"
1:1
 
FrameBuffer said:
re-read Anand's 780Ti review again, they used Quiet Mode in single card comparison and used (recycled) "Uber-Mode" crossfire numbers from their previous 290X review instead of re-running benches with newer drivers.
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What am I missing here? I see both "Uber" and default modes, for both CF and single-card.

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With regard to Titan DP/Cuda option, the point is that Anandtech's "policy" is to compare products "out of box" (ie as delivered, no options selected/enabled other than delievered) and thus their reasoning for NOT enabling "Uber-Mode",.. YET as shown with the Titan, Anandtech has a history of altering options to attain best (DP compute) performance that IS NOT enabled by default.. ie they chose to enable one option (DP Cuda) and no another ("Uber-Mode") .. if you can't see the conflicting side in that well, .. yeah
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That makes no sense. When they reviewed the 290X they tested both Uber and Quiet, as would be necessary for a thorough review. It follows that a Titan review should test DP performance with DP enabled. Who the hell would care about DP performance of a Titan with that option disabled? Only a reviewer who is an idiot would do it that way. He'd lose all credibility.
 
orangekiwii said:
I am mad. This entire forum is filled with more than their fair share of degenerates giving a handy to AMD. Anyone who presents themselves as objective (even ignoring the nvidia fanboys) are immediately dismissed by the vast majority of posters as nvidiots.

I've been reading this forum for years and have watched it decay into a pallid imitation of what it once was. My posts add nothing to this forum but I wanted to vent a bit about how fucking retarded threads like this are.

"Every review except one is brown nosing nvidia" How do these people even fucking exist with logic as retarded as theirs.



It's also the fact that 290x beats titan by 5% - it's amazing, fantastic, real contribution to the gpu market.

780ti beats 290x by 5% - it's garbage there's no point for anyone to buy the card

The thing people are missing is that AMD is fucking 7 months late. People for 7 months could have had 290x performance. Buy a 780 and overclock it a bit and you've got 290x performance for 100 more $ 7 months early. No one cares to make that comparison though because that would show that AMD has done fucking nothing at all.
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Oh the irony. You vent about people lacking solid reasoning skills and then you post this.

Have you seen the nvidias price drops recently?
 
one things for certain, I'm really kicking myself right now for not buying a 7990 when they were ~600
 
Nenu said:
An SPL reading is an SPL reading, it isnt human, it doesnt represent all the criteria of what you hear.
The sound includes fundamental frequency(s), harmonics and other tones.
Odd harmonics stand out more as they dont sound good.
Different combinations of tones can sound jarring or more pleasant, depending which frequency tones are present.
Some frequencies sound louder to our ears, as ears are more sensitive to some than others.


Yet you hear with ears.
Has the disparity registered yet?
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So you are saying if both cards were lets say 92 decibels. I would not have to wear hearing protection for the nvidia card but i would for the amd card?

What you are saying is crazy. Now I can see if they said something about the frequencies of the cards.
 
PRIME1 said:
If you have to compare the 290 to the 580, AMD must be further behind this generation than I thought. I just checked ebay and the 580 is much cheaper than a 290 so I guess that means the 580 wins.

We should also compare the heat output of my new LCD monitor with my old CRT.

Either way the 780 is the best of both worlds right now. It's cheaper than the ti, performs well against the 290 and does not have those awful heat + noise problems.
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Oh look who it is. She never gives up.
 
FrameBuffer said:
re-read Anand's 780Ti review again, they used Quiet Mode in single card comparison and used (recycled) "Uber-Mode" crossfire numbers from their previous 290X review instead of re-running benches with newer drivers.

From Page 3:


With regard to Titan DP/Cuda option, the point is that Anandtech's "policy" is to compare products "out of box" (ie as delivered, no options selected/enabled other than delievered) and thus their reasoning for NOT enabling "Uber-Mode",.. YET as shown with the Titan, Anandtech has a history of altering options to attain best (DP compute) performance that IS NOT enabled by default.. ie they chose to enable one option (DP Cuda) and no another ("Uber-Mode") .. if you can't see the conflicting side in that well, .. yeah
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So in other words they wanted the advantage to go straight to nv out of the gate, because hitting a switch while you are installing a card is tough work.
 
cannondale06 said:
there is one right now on newegg for 600
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If you can even navigate the damn site. I must be the only one that can't find a damn thing after they did the November *UPDATE* to the side menus. Literally have to use the damn search just to find the 780 Ti's price and selection.

No wonder [H] redirects from Newegg to Amazon.
 
wizzi01 said:
So you are saying if both cards were lets say 92 decibels. I would not have to wear hearing protection for the nvidia card but i would for the amd card?

What you are saying is crazy. Now I can see if they said something about the frequencies of the cards.
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If we were talking about what would make you go deaf and if the cards were capable of that.
But neither are the case.

If you cant talk sense or even make sense of it, you are in the wrong place.
This isnt your topic.
 
Liger88 said:
If you can even navigate the damn site. I must be the only one that can't find a damn thing after they did the November *UPDATE* to the side menus. Literally have to use the damn search just to find the 780 Ti's price and selection.

No wonder [H] redirects from Newegg to Amazon.
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not sure what you mean as site is no trouble at all for me to navigate.
 
cannondale06 said:
not sure what you mean as site is no trouble at all for me to navigate.
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The whole check mark thing on the left hand side where you have to narrow it down to CUDA/Stream processors instead of model number? Maybe its just me or annoying me for some reason having to constantly use the "More Options" which brings up a couple dozen other ways to narrow it down, none by the model number.

I don't want to take this OT so I'll shut up, but I thought more people would notice and apparently I'm the only one based off hearing from others.
 
Liger88 said:
The whole check mark thing on the left hand side where you have to narrow it down to CUDA/Stream processors instead of model number? Maybe its just me or annoying me for some reason having to constantly use the "More Options" which brings up a couple dozen other ways to narrow it down, none by the model number.

I don't want to take this OT so I'll shut up, but I thought more people would notice and apparently I'm the only one based off hearing from others.
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I absolutely despise the new Newegg category layout. Newegg continues to make their site less friendly to look through and it is just making me not want to bother anymore.
 
Techreport finally got their review up.

Perhaps more importantly, the GTX 780 Ti achieves these performance levels while running at much lower temperatures and noise levels than the R9 290X. This truly is the finest single-GPU graphics card on the market
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Cherry picking is in season.
http://techreport.com/review/25611/nvidia-geforce-gtx-780-ti-graphics-card-reviewed/12

Based on the totality of our results, I'd say the GeForce GTX 780 Ti has returned the single-GPU performance crown to the green team's trophy case in a controversial split decision.
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For most folks, though, forking over 700 bucks for the GTX 780 Ti will seem like madness when the Radeon R9 290 offers 90% of the performance for $300 less. Yeah, the Radeon is noisier, but I'm pretty sure $300 will buy a lifetime supply of those foam earplugs at Walgreens. Heck, throw in another hundred bucks, and you could have dual R9 290s, which should presumably outperform the GTX 780 Ti handily. .
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lol so you want to wear the earplugs like that jokingly suggest? 290 and 290x are too noisy and 780ti is too expensive. any good deal on a 780 below 500 bucks is the best compromise for me. in fact I ordered an EVGA 780 ACX for 485 bucks but it did not arrive in perfect condition thanks to the crappy packing they do at newegg in Memphis. now I am having seconds thoughts as $485 is a lot of money and only 4 or 5 games in my massive backlog are even demanding.
 
Because for the extra 300 bucks that a 780 ti costs more than my 290, I can build an entire watecooling loop to overclock it and have it be silent.
 
PRIME1 said:
Techreport finally got their review up.
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Thanks for the heads up..I was on the fence but this review swayed me and I ordered a 290 along with an EK waterblock...excited!
For most folks, though, forking over 700 bucks for the GTX 780 Ti will seem like madness when the Radeon R9 290 offers 90% of the performance for $300 less. Yeah, the Radeon is noisier, but I'm pretty sure $300 will buy a lifetime supply of those foam earplugs at Walgreens. Heck, throw in another hundred bucks, and you could have dual R9 290s, which should presumably outperform the GTX 780 Ti handily.
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veedubfreak said:
Because for the extra 300 bucks that a 780 ti costs more than my 290, I can build an entire watecooling loop to overclock it and have it be silent.
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290 in crossfire watercooled destroys anything this round now that they got their microstutter and new multi gpu architecture. SLI is having issues this round = no go
 
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cannondale06 said:
lol so you want to wear the earplugs like that jokingly suggest? 290 and 290x are too noisy and 780ti is too expensive. any good deal on a 780 below 500 bucks is the best compromise for me. in fact I ordered an EVGA 780 ACX for 485 bucks but it did not arrive in perfect condition thanks to the crappy packing they do at newegg in Memphis. now I am having seconds thoughts as $485 is a lot of money and only 4 or 5 games in my massive backlog are even demanding.
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It's up to you cannondale, whether you decide you want to keep the 780 or not, all i can tell you is this much, these evga acx 780's(while already SC to begin with) have some additional headroom to about 20 to 50 extra additional mhz on the core clock(without raising the voltage). Not to mention, they're fan noise is barely audible if you're competent enough to know what you're doing.

And from that stand point, that's nearly close to 1200 boost on the core clock, which is scarily impressive.

I'm going back to all these graphically acclaimed games ; Tomb Raider, Hitman Absolution, etc... basically anything hardware taxing as i can think of, jacking up the tressfx, tesselation, bumping up the msaa, here and there. It's like a whole new fucking ball game. Games aren't even dropping below 60 fps, and the ones that do, it'll only be within ~4 to 10 fps range, then it'll climb right back up to the top. I'm getting that full on full " gaming experience"

I haven't even tapped into Crysis 3 and Metro Last Light yet, but Bf4 is already at 60 fps steady with everything cranked up, the 780 is laughing at that game, the dips in bf4 comes because it's terribly taxing on the processor, but the 2500k pulls through with relative ease. oh and lol @ people claiming "2gb is enough for 1080p", BF4 already pushing 2218 mb vram on widely open areas.

Then you factor in the physx, tesselation, AA variations, surround, geforce experience, shadow play, and a whole bunch of shit that they have rights to that AMD can't touch. I ain't bashing Red Team, their turn is coming too, but aesthetic wise, nvidia dominates.

Nvidia are penny savages and have corporate greed streamed through their blood veins, but their tech and reliability are, simply put, Pure Win and Game Ready, right out of the box. Plain and Simple.

Do whatever you want Cannondole, you could probably snag a 780 on BF for $390, but does it come with 3 games and 100 bucks off Nvidia shield for $485?

Last option = basically a) close monitor, b) wait for the R9 290's After-Market cooling option, c) prey it doesn't blow up in your face and bring your whole computer down with you, d) faith.
 
PRIME1 said:
Techreport finally got their review up.
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You left out the part of $699, which is overpriced and makes the finest card, the ripoff of the year.

O wait that belongs to Titan LOL

Besides if you are willing to spend $700 on 1 card, why not spend $100 more and get 2 290's in crossfire.

Since Crossfire is fixed with AMD now, That would be the better buy. Plus SLI is having alot of issues lately. Seems like Nvidia hired AMD's old driver team
 
DASHlT said:
You left out the part of $699, which is overpriced and makes the finest card, the ripoff of the year.

O wait that belongs to Titan LOL

Besides if you are willing to spend $700 on 1 card, why not spend $100 more and get 2 290's in crossfire.

Since Crossfire is fixed with AMD now, That would be the better buy. Plus SLI is having alot of issues lately. Seems like Nvidia hired AMD's old driver team
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good grief I would not pay 800 bucks plus at least another 100 more for an adequate psu just to torture myself with the racket of two of those.
 
cannondale06 said:
lol so double the racket? good grief I would not pay 800 bucks plus at least another 100 more for an adequate psu just to torture myself.
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Wasn't talking about noise, Just price/performance. And when you compare 1 video @ $700 to 2 @ $800 for close to double the performance, who would care?

Besides, just get 2 H55's and mod them on the 290's. That would be a whole $100 more you could do later down the road.

But everyone has difference opinions/taste on how they want hardware, and what they expect :) Choose with your wallet!
 
its not always as simple as price/performance though. most people would need a new power supply and then a way of dealing with the noise of those 2 cards which could also cost more money.
 
cannondale06 said:
its not always as simple as price/performance though. most people would need a new power supply and then a way of dealing with the noise of those 2 cards which could also cost more money.
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most normal people dont spend $700 on 1 video card, they spend $700 on an entire system.

If someone is a [H] PC gamer, they will already have a good cooling case and PSU.
 
The VRM's cooling would need to be addressed. You gotta pay to play.

DASHlT said:
most normal people dont spend $700 on 1 video card, they spend $700 on an entire system.

If someone is a [H] PC gamer, they will already have a good cooling case and PSU.
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Too many people with junk cases probably stems from a lot of the noise complaints.
 
Vexerz said:
The VRM's cooling would need to be addressed. You gotta pay to play.
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Don't get me wrong. I agree the noise/cooler sucks royal donkey balls on the 290, but once AIB cards start showing up, noise and the donkey balls cooler wont even matter.

The 780TI is really overpriced, should be $599-$629 imo. It is the fastest card out there at low rez.
 
DASHlT said:
Don't get me wrong. I agree the noise/cooler sucks royal donkey balls on the 290, but once AIB cards start showing up, noise and the donkey balls cooler wont even matter.

The 780TI is really overpriced, should be $599-$629 imo. It is the fastest card out there at low rez.
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True.
780ti = Low rez King
290x = 4k and up king
 
DASHlT said:
Don't get me wrong. I agree the noise/cooler sucks royal donkey balls on the 290, but once AIB cards start showing up, noise and the donkey balls cooler wont even matter.

The 780TI is really overpriced, should be $599-$629 imo. It is the fastest card out there at low rez.
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You would think anyone who can afford a $700 card can afford a 1440p/1600p monitor....
 
DASHlT said:
Don't get me wrong. I agree the noise/cooler sucks royal donkey balls on the 290, but once AIB cards start showing up, noise and the donkey balls cooler wont even matter.

The 780TI is really overpriced, should be $599-$629 imo. It is the fastest card out there at low rez.
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yes $599-$629 would be almost perfect price for consumers for what you get. with it being faster, having a way better cooler, better ocing headroom and game bundle it would actually be 50-80 bucks well spent over the 290x.
 
cannondale06 said:
its not always as simple as price/performance though. most people would need a new power supply and then a way of dealing with the noise of those 2 cards which could also cost more money.
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That is why I laugh at the people who always recommend tiny PSU's in the PSU section here and say how bad it is to buy a higher wattage PSU. Those people recommending that never think past 1 year, only about how the PSU won't be running at optimum efficiency..welp that sounds useful when you can't use your under powered PSU now(This isn't aimed at you, just in general I always see that shit)
 
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