Quality low watt PSU's

[ep0x73]

Wonder when we will see 350-450 titanium power supplies for those who just run onboard graphics and do not need more then 300w of total system power?
Seasonic does have their fanless platinum 400 but that is about it, for now.

 

[Tsumi]

I think the reason you don't see lower wattage is because it simply isn't worth it to go that low wattage with the high quality parts you put in. The lower the wattage (and price), the lower the margins, and at some point it goes into the negatives.

 

[THUMPer]

How about this?
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/400w-smps-fsp-80-plus-titanium-power-supplies.html

Also Seasonic has some fanless 400-520 watt PSU's

 

[ep0x73]

I just read that the other day, can't say I am a fan of FSP, don't know enough about them.
Seasonic will jump on this soon I am sure, then maybe Corsair.

Not keen of fanless even though at high efficiency it's not totally needed I'd still rather have a quality Sanyo-Denki fan moving slowly for some airflow.

If you have an old school top psu case that rising hot air is going to stagnate.

 

[Dangman]

As Tsumi said, once you start piling in high quality parts, there's not much of a price difference between something like a 450W and a 650W. Considering that the majority of PSU buyers still fall in the camp of "always more power" rather than "quality", PSU manufacturers are going to try to maximize sales/profit by marketing their PSUs as higher wattage, even if that's not the case under real-world conditions. Not to mention that the market is extremely competitive now. Now we're getting very high quality PSUs at the same price point as mediocre PSUs at under $70. So higher efficiency isn't going to be enough to offset the higher costs. There's gotta be a gimmick involved. Hence why Seasonic's Platinum fanless PSUs are selling so well despite their low wattage: because they're fanless!

Corsair is definitely not jumping in on this. They tried something in the past and it failed: Back in like 2009 or so, Corsair's European section (might have been their sales or marketing section IIRC) had asked and pushed for Corsair to release a solid modular yet very efficient relatively low wattage PSU. The thinking at the time was that there was going to be a huge demand for something like that in Europe. The end result of that was the HX 450. That launch however failed.

With that said, 80Plus certification is pretty all but useless:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/04/80_plus_irrelevant_to_you_when_buying_psu/

 

[Simmonz]

Wonder when we will see 350-450 titanium power supplies for those who just run onboard graphics and do not need more then 300w of total system power?
Seasonic does have their fanless platinum 400 but that is about it, for now.

EVGA has a 430 Watt Platinum. It retails for about $50 CAD. I've only used it in one customer system so far but I was happy with it.

 

[Dangman]

EVGA has a 430 Watt Platinum. It retails for about $50 CAD. I've only used it in one customer system so far but I was happy with it.

That's not Platinum. That's just a regular 80PLus PSU.

 

[ep0x73]

Currently using a Seasonic 660 with a 750ti and 6 drives.
Only pulling about 115W in 2D.

Near future it's time to rebuild my dad's computer which is just for the net.
Certainly does not need 660, not even 400 but I don't buy low end psu's.

I was looking at the Seasonic 450 modular.
360 would be better but it's not modular and I hate hiding cables.

 

[Tsumi]

When I'm building a low power computer, I go straight to the CX 430s that go on sale for $15 every so often. Why? Because those few percentages of efficiency aren't going to matter at the low watt range, and the computer will never be pushed hard enough to even begin to tax the power supply. So a decent quality PSU is more than good enough to run that computer for a long time. I am more than willing to go from excellent to good quality in a budget build. And the CX 430 can't be considered low end. That is for Diabloteks and the like. It's a good quality, not exceptional but not bad, but it will get the job done.

 

[Ryokurin]

I pretty much do the same thing, whichever Corsair that's on sale. It's not like these things change every couple of months, pretty much all of the lower end power supplies have been on sale for a couple of years.

 

[ep0x73]

He's still using a Corsair 400W that is over 5 years old, that model was made by Seasonic.
Not haswell compatible but if you disable C6/C7 it should not have deep sleep issues, least what I read.

 

[Dangman]

Currently using a Seasonic 660 with a 750ti and 6 drives.
Only pulling about 115W in 2D.

Near future it's time to rebuild my dad's computer which is just for the net.
Certainly does not need 660, not even 400 but I don't buy low end psu's.

I was looking at the Seasonic 450 modular.
360 would be better but it's not modular and I hate hiding cables.

Unless you're purposely choosing bad cases, hiding cables isn't all that hard. Plus at the lower wattage range, there aren't that many cables to hide to begin with.

 

[ToddW2]

I prefer quality over "extra power".

Quality in terms of components.
Quality in terms of the power coming out.

 

[ep0x73]

Unless you're purposely choosing bad cases, hiding cables isn't all that hard. Plus at the lower wattage range, there aren't that many cables to hide to begin with.

I have lian-li and Antec cases.......both top tier but they still do not give you any room behind the MB for hiding, both are notorious for this.

Low watt don't have that many cables but if you do not use molex or PCI connector you have to tuck those away somewhere.

I also prefer quality over extra power because test after test shows Seasonic can actually safely go over their rated wattage without issue.

That would be termed overbuilt.

 

[Dangman]

I have lian-li and Antec cases.......both top tier but they still do not give you any room behind the MB for hiding, both are notorious for this.

Then choose better cases for management then? When you can get solid cable management out of a $50 NZXT Source 210 Elite case, there's no good reason to go with many Antec cases out there near that price point.

Actually I wouldn't consider Antec top-tier at this point in time. Too many of their cases are poor choices for the money nowadays.

Low watt don't have that many cables but if you do not use molex or PCI connector you have to tuck those away somewhere.

Yes but you'd only have to tuck away one or two cables. Even with cases with limited space behind the motherboard tray, there's still enough to hide or two cables.

Example: A NZXT Source 210 Elite I did for someone using the XFX TS 550W PSU which has a lot more cables than the Seasonic 360W Gold:
IMG_1513 by dangman4ever, on Flickr

Unless the case is mATX, mITX, or some really special layout, any ATX case that won't let me do that is automatically bad in my book.

 

[evilsofa]

I prefer quality over "extra power".

Quality in terms of components.
Quality in terms of the power coming out.

You have surprisingly good quality power coming out of three-year-old 750W PSUs that go on sale for as little as $50. You find deals like that on 600W to 800W PSUs on a regular basis, and sometimes reasonably good 430W to 500W PSUs for as low as $15. Really high quality PSUs that are 400W or less (the handful of them that there are) cost $70 and up. It's nearly impossible to market that against the $15 deal of the week.

 

[ep0x73]

NZXT looks like a lot of thin metal and cheap plastic, hardly a top quality case.

I still have tank built Antec cases that are over 10 years old and work great.
Outdated yes but quality built.

Maybe Seasonic will come out with modular low watt platinum + power supplies soon, it would be welcomed.

 

[Tsumi]

So the Antec GX500 isn't cheap metal and plastic?

If you're going to compare cases, at least compare cases across the same price range. Don't compare apples to oranges.

 

[ep0x73]

I don't know how the GX500 is, hell never heard of that case.
I never bought low end cases, usually the brands middle to top line.

Lower end Antec cases today look cheap, thin metal and brittle plastic too

 

[Tsumi]

I don't know how the GX500 is, hell never heard of that case.
I never bought low end cases, usually the brands middle to top line.

Lower end Antec cases today look cheap, thin metal and brittle plastic too

So basically you're saying cases like the Switch 810 and Phantom 820 are cheap cases made of cheap materials.

 

[Dangman]

NZXT looks like a lot of thin metal and cheap plastic, hardly a top quality case.

The case I posted is a $50 case. I wasn't marketing it as a top quality case. I was pointing out that hiding two cables isn't a massive "oh my god" pain like you're making it out to be even in cases with limited space behind the motherboard.

I still have tank built Antec cases that are over 10 years old and work great.
Outdated yes but quality built.

If quality means worse cooling and having to hope for a PSU that'll never arrive from a specific company, forget that.

Maybe Seasonic will come out with modular low watt platinum + power supplies soon, it would be welcomed.

Pie in the sky, man. Just get the Seasonic fanless PSUs if you're truly hung up on the platinum rating and not having to tuck away TWO cables. IF there was a demand, the Seasonic 360 Gold would be selling like hot-cakes.

I don't know how the GX500 is, hell never heard of that case.
I never bought low end cases, usually the brands middle to top line.

Lower end Antec cases today look cheap, thin metal and brittle plastic too

Dunno what Antec cases you're talking about I've worked with Antec's 300, 900, 1200, Lanboy Air, P180, Sonata II, NSK4480B, and DF-85 cases and they're worse than many NZXT, Corsair, or Fractal Design cases out now.

Just to be clear: The only Antec case that I recommend these days are the Antec P280 and the Antec 1100. The rest of Antec's lineup is crap from the low-end to the high-end.

 

[ep0x73]

So basically you're saying cases like the Switch 810 and Phantom 820 are cheap cases made of cheap materials.

I don't know, don't own them. Are they?

Both are full size and full price, reviews are mostly positive.

Now you are comparing cases that cost $200 with $100 cases.

 

[Dangman]

I don't know, don't own them. Are they?

Both are full size and full price, reviews are mostly positive.

Now you are comparing cases that cost $200 with $100 cases.

Which was what you were doing earlier when trying to compare old expensive Antec cases to the cheap NZXT case I posted.

Then again, even if Tsumi was comparing $200 NZXT cases to $200 Antec cases of today, the NZXT cases are going to win.

 

[ep0x73]

If quality means worse cooling and having to hope for a PSU that'll never arrive from a specific company, forget that.

Worse cooling? not even needed like it was back in the day with hot running CPU's.

PSU that will never arrive? Not sure what you mean by that, all cases are ATX spec.

Pie in the sky, man. Just get the Seasonic fanless PSUs if you're truly hung up on the platinum rating and not having to tuck away TWO cables. IF there was a demand, the Seasonic 360 Gold would be selling like hot-cakes.

Depends on the arrangement, fanless are not designed for top PSU cases.

Dunno what Antec cases you're talking about I've worked with Antec's 300, 900, 1200, Lanboy Air, P180, Sonata II, NSK4480B, and DF-85 cases and they're worse than many NZXT, Corsair, or Fractal Design cases out now.

Solo and Solo II. Solid, quite although a bit tight. Nice for mid size.

Just to be clear: The only Antec case that I recommend these days are the Antec P280 and the Antec 1100. The rest of Antec's lineup is crap from the low-end to the high-end.

Both are full size, I never use those and a bit overkill unless you are running a server.

Currently using this Lian-li. Almost too quiet, excellent airflow.
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-112-397-02.jpg

Which was what you were doing earlier when trying to compare old expensive Antec cases to the cheap NZXT case I posted.

Old yes but not expensive. My old cases are SX600 or something like that, paid maybe $60 a decade ago.
They are beige so you know they are old

 

[Tsumi]

I get the feeling you're deliberately not comprehending anything we're saying.

 

[Dangman]

Worse cooling? not even needed like it was back in the day with hot running CPU's.

But needed with relatively hotter running video cards of today.

PSU that will never arrive? Not sure what you mean by that, all cases are ATX spec.

I was talking about how you want a "modular low watt platinum + power supplies" from Seasonic even though there are numerous good reasons for Seasonic to NOT do that.

Depends on the arrangement, fanless are not designed for top PSU cases.

But you generally only see top PSUs in either low quality cases and/or really old cases. Any good case these days is going to have the PSU on the bottom. It's not intelligent to put in a good PSU inside a low quality and/or really old case.

Solo and Solo II. Solid, quite although a bit tight. Nice for mid size.

That's what you consider solid? The Corsair 230T is better built than those cases. The Fractal Design R4 is better built than those cases. I can think of a dozen other cases out now that would be better than those two cases.

Old yes but not expensive. My old cases are SX600 or something like that, paid maybe $60 a decade ago.
They are beige so you know they are old

....Something tells me your definition of quality is completely different from mine or anyone's opinion who've actually worked with any case circa 2009 and newer. That Antec SX600 is not a quality case by today's standards unless you haven't worked with any other case for the last ten years.

 

[ep0x73]

LOL, corsair cases are cheap junk. I could throw my SOLO through a car window.
1.2mm steel with sound dampening and it does not squeak and rattle.
Fractal......wrong again, cheap plastic that likes to snap off and break.
I looked at the R4 once, was not impressed and the HDD system not that great.

What do you determine as quality then......price?

My dad is still rocking a Antec SX600II? and the power button still works, everything works.
Quality is longevity......don't expect to see any Fractal or Corsair cases in 10 years.
If you are not pushing a 980 and use Intel even a older case will suffice just fine updated with Noctua fans.

BTW, if I were to shoot for the $200 mark I'd get a A61B

 

[Dangman]

LOL, corsair cases are cheap junk. I could throw my SOLO through a car window.
1.2mm steel with sound dampening and it does not squeak and rattle.

Have you actually worked with any Corsair case?

Fractal......wrong again, cheap plastic that likes to snap off and break.
I looked at the R4 once, was not impressed and the HDD system not that great.

Again, have you actually worked with a R4 case?

What do you determine as quality then......price?

My dad is still rocking a Antec SX600II? and the power button still works, everything works.
Quality is longevity......don't expect to see any Fractal or Corsair cases in 10 years.
If you are not pushing a 980 and use Intel even a older case will suffice just fine updated with Noctua fans.

Longevity is actually one of my criteria. But whereas you're talking about physical longevity, I'm talking about physical AND usefulness longevity. In other words, how long that case is still useful for a modern PC. I've thrown away dozens of people's SX600 and cases based on or are similar to the old Cheiftec Dragon designs because they're no longer useful in my eyes due to lack of cooling, cable management, USB 3.0, space, ease of working with, high noise level, high costs of improvement, and/or are just plain fugly. A quality case can still be useful years after purchase. If it's not, then it's no longer a quality case. Physical quality alone does not atone for the lack of useful/usable quality.

I don't keep cases for ten years because they're no longer useful to me for that long. Even for office type PCs.

 

[ep0x73]

Not many cases stand the test of time at any price.
Both GPU and CPU are more efficient today and produce less heat.

My old 8800GTX would idle at 130F, compare that to any modern card which idles at room temp.

As for the SX600II, beige is a nice change of pace to the black cases which are the rage
With fan replacement it's actually quiet.
It does not squeak, rattle and absolutely nothing has ever broken.

Wish they still took the time and effort today to make cases that are solid built.

Even Lian-li can be so-so. Metal is thin and most never had room behind the MB, something they appear to finally be addressing.

Lian-li also has been known to use shitty power/reset buttons that break easily.

As to your question, I have seen Corsair and Fractal cases in person and fingered them up and was not blown away by them.

Corsair has the most flimsy plastic rails for HDD, just don't like their design.

Solo has solid metal trays with silicon grommets.

Tired of everything being plastic.

 

[Dangman]

Not many cases stand the test of time at any price.
.....
Wish they still took the time and effort today to make cases that are solid built.
...........
Tired of everything being plastic.

Again, I don't keep cases that long because they cease being useful long before their physical properties die out. I've thrown away plenty of cases like your SX600II for that reason alone. In addition, business don't make money from you keeping your case a long long time. It's either make you change case relatively often or force you to pay more for their cases.

Both GPU and CPU are more efficient today and produce less heat.

Doesn't mean that you can starve them of proper cooling.

 

[ep0x73]

None of my cases even old ones are starving for proper cooling, not unless everything was running full bore.

I see no reason to throw out anything which is not broken and has a use.

Sounds like you build computers often and can afford to be picky whereas I am just more thrifty.

I never go cheap but I never go top of the line expensive either.

Every single computer I've ever built which is well over a dozen still work so I'm doing something right.

 

[Dangman]

None of my cases even old ones are starving for proper cooling, not unless everything was running full bore.

I see no reason to throw out anything which is not broken and has a use.

I agree with that last sentence. However, it seems that we have different standards of "a use" with my standards being a lot higher.

Sounds like you build computers often and can afford to be picky whereas I am just more thrifty.

Again, I agree with that sentence but we have different standards. I'm thrifty in the sense that I aim for the best bang for the buck possible deal whereas, to me, you're thrifty in the sense of dumpster diving or freeganism.

I never go cheap but I never go top of the line expensive either.

As do I. But different standards again.

Every single computer I've ever built which is well over a dozen still work so I'm doing something right.

If we're playing that game, I've built well over a thousand computers with the vast majority of them lasting physically long enough until their useful life ends. I'm not bullshitting you either: it's literally well over a thousand. Not counting all the PC builds I've helped out with over in General Hardware over the past decade.

 

[ep0x73]

Not sure I'd go as far as dumper diving for cases, I research before purchase and so far I have been happy with my decisions.

I don't doubt you have built way more computers then I have. I don't build for mass production, just family and friends and myself.

I am sure with unlimited funds I could get more creative but at this time it's not necessary.

Back to PSU's though, the original OP was for a modern low watt that is platinum or better.
Unless you are a gamer most people do not need massive watts but do like to cut their power bill.

Sadly most low watts also skimp on connectors but that is the tradeoff.

If you go just for mass efficiency then you want to stay around the 50% mark.

Really I don't get that anal or penny pinching.

A good 400W gold with enough connectors to satisfy and to future proof is good enough.

It is also hard to go back to full hardwire after you use modular so you can pick and choose to your liking.

 

[rive22]

Go with a gold. The Platinum difference at that low wattage isn't much of a big deal. Platinum are better suited for high wattage rigs operating at high capacity 24 hours a day.

 

[doubletake]

I get the feeling that some people just want to complain about thickness/density of the plastic and metal used in modern cases because they have poor grip strength and/or fine motor skills that leads them to mishandle cases in some way that ends up leaving them damaged. I've handled several cheap modern cases ($40 and under) from the likes of Corsair, Cooler Master and NZXT and I've never experienced any warping, broken plastic pieces or any other so-called issues stemming from the use of inexpensive materials.

 

[ep0x73]

I've never broken plastic pieces either but if you look at reviews that seems to be the largest complaint, brittle plastic.
It can also simply be design flaws that were not engineered as well as they could have been.

 

[RazorWind]

I don't know how the GX500 is, hell never heard of that case.
I never bought low end cases, usually the brands middle to top line.

Lower end Antec cases today look cheap, thin metal and brittle plastic too

Even Antec's higher end cases are pretty cheaply made these days.

I bought a Ninteen Hundred because A. it's looks cool and B. I was replacing a fifteen year old SX1030 that my mother bought me for my 17th birthday in 2000.

The difference in the quality of the materials they're made of is borderline comical. The SX is 1.0mm thick steel with a very thick powdercoat and thick, heavy plastic pieces. Edit: The metal parts may be even thicker than that. It's like a piece of industrial equipment. It can easily support me standing on it to change light bulbs.

The Nineteen Hundred got a little bit bent in the box and feels like a toy in comparison. It sure does look nice, though.

Suffice to say that the next case I buy with be made by Corsair.

 

[ep0x73]

Sign of the times, everybody is cutting corners to cut costs these days.

Even the top lian-li do not even come with any type of sound deadening material and side panels are extremely thin.

All I know is I have two solo cases and besides the notoriously weak plastic power button that breaks [already had to superglue] the case is solid, heavy and quiet.
Sold metal HDD trays and not flimsy plastic.
Better yet a lian-li HDD rack fits perfectly on the rails giving me 7 total.
I also ditched the bright blue LED and put in classic green and amber.

Solo II has good reviews but only 3 HDD unless you use a rack.