dondan
[H]ard|Gawd
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I thought that the psu goes off if the card pulls more power than the psu could provide.
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Project H20-Micro a Watercooled 3 Liter system with GTX970
- Thread starter QinX
- Start date
A good psu with some type of overcurrent protection should turn off, but I'm just saying that it may be an issue going with a PSU that is "just enough" to meet the TDP of 145w for a GTX 970
A computer that shuts off or crashes under load due to the GPU PSU turning off would not really be a very good computer at all right? I just think it needs to be considered in the overall design here
A computer that shuts off or crashes under load due to the GPU PSU turning off would not really be a very good computer at all right? I just think it needs to be considered in the overall design here
yolostrats
Weaksauce
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I believe PSUs all handle it differently.
The size is intriguing, but the ITX 970s will likely be louder and even more so at a small size, with little or no blocking or dampening and amplified by the fact it will probably be a lot closer to the user.
Such a small PC wouldn't be placed where a regular tower would be (beside table, under table) but somewhere accessible like on the table for easy disconnection and transport. I can see people using them between multiple locations with KVM set up already (as one example).
Even if you can make the case fans very quiet, the pump noise will almost 100% be louder than the case fans and audible at a low speed.
Now having said all that, you (OP) should still go ahead and fully realise this. That's how we have progress - if no one tries anything then we don't get anywhere.
One of my crazy ideas was how small you can make a PC with 2x 295x2. If I had money and time, it would make a fun project. Just in time for 4k 5" screens.
The size is intriguing, but the ITX 970s will likely be louder and even more so at a small size, with little or no blocking or dampening and amplified by the fact it will probably be a lot closer to the user.
Such a small PC wouldn't be placed where a regular tower would be (beside table, under table) but somewhere accessible like on the table for easy disconnection and transport. I can see people using them between multiple locations with KVM set up already (as one example).
Even if you can make the case fans very quiet, the pump noise will almost 100% be louder than the case fans and audible at a low speed.
Now having said all that, you (OP) should still go ahead and fully realise this. That's how we have progress - if no one tries anything then we don't get anywhere.
One of my crazy ideas was how small you can make a PC with 2x 295x2. If I had money and time, it would make a fun project. Just in time for 4k 5" screens.
scrap the drives and go M.2 or mSata if this is supposed to be the smallest case
Edit: I didn't see the limiting factor was the height of the hdplex and not the drives. I still think the additional cables would just be clutter that a case of this size would not want.
Edit: I didn't see the limiting factor was the height of the hdplex and not the drives. I still think the additional cables would just be clutter that a case of this size would not want.
I added the drives because:
1) HDPlex makes the case this high already
2) at least one 2.5" hdd should have its place in the system I think
Of course using thin mITX woul let use place HDPlex over the motherboard IO and drives about space next to CPU thank to standarized CPU location, but I'm not sure if that would reduce the height considering HDPlex cables space needed.
Its still 3L case
1) HDPlex makes the case this high already
2) at least one 2.5" hdd should have its place in the system I think
Of course using thin mITX woul let use place HDPlex over the motherboard IO and drives about space next to CPU thank to standarized CPU location, but I'm not sure if that would reduce the height considering HDPlex cables space needed.
Its still 3L case
Time for some responses!
I've had it running with 2 +12V supplies(the motherboard and the HD-PLEX) I am implementing 1 +12V supply in my PCIe riser, I'm not going to connect the +12V from the Motherboard just to make sure it's not going to cause problems.
I had the HD-PLEX shorted to be always on, it wasn't drawing any power for the GPU likely because the GPU is "offline" when the system is off. I've done this for testing purposes but I think I will have the standby function in the final system just to keep it all safe. In the end all 12V power for the GPU will be provided by the HD-PLEX only 3.3V is supplied by the motherboard.
Looking from the back of the motherboard(IO view) the riser will raise the GPU about 20mm and fold over the motherboard. It will be a rigid riser.
Funny story: I visited a 1-man company that does a lot of electronics work for companies to see if he would be willing to design the PCIe riser for me, I've some PCB designing skills but only amateur level. However upon getting a reponse for €1200 for 2 days of work I decided to just go ahead and do it myself and now 3 hours of work and the riser is halfway done. -_-
I'm doing the bottom implementation pretty much, but will try and figure out a more elegant way then the add2psu board. I'm considering designing my own board just for 12V supply. Not totally sure yet.
I've seen this graph already and now I d believe the GPU was not getting enough juice.(have a 230W) I'll be ordering a 350W PSU and see if it works better. again bandwidth shouldn't be a problem unless the fact that the Q87T has PCIe 3.0 4x going through the PCH really craps out the bandwidth to the point of it being worse than PCIe 1.1 4x
This looks like a nice implementation, but what I wouldn't like is that fact that the case would basically be swiss-cheese.
the Neutronium v4 was also a tiny case, but I personally dislike the amount of ventilation required to get right of the hot air.
You talk about the GTX970 being loud, but it will be watercooled. also the pump I've selected is really quiet, ofcourse it can't be dead silent but it better than any DDC, D5 or alphacool ceramic pump I've used, It only takes 3.5W at 12V.
Also unless you are running sustained 100% load on the GPU and CPU the fans don't ramp up for a while, it has some thermal inertia due to the water being circulated.
This system is meant for 4K gaming or ultra quality 1080P, I think the 970 is good enough for most games on 4K with decent settings
I've had it running with 2 +12V supplies(the motherboard and the HD-PLEX) I am implementing 1 +12V supply in my PCIe riser, I'm not going to connect the +12V from the Motherboard just to make sure it's not going to cause problems.
I had the HD-PLEX shorted to be always on, it wasn't drawing any power for the GPU likely because the GPU is "offline" when the system is off. I've done this for testing purposes but I think I will have the standby function in the final system just to keep it all safe. In the end all 12V power for the GPU will be provided by the HD-PLEX only 3.3V is supplied by the motherboard.
Looking from the back of the motherboard(IO view) the riser will raise the GPU about 20mm and fold over the motherboard. It will be a rigid riser.
Funny story: I visited a 1-man company that does a lot of electronics work for companies to see if he would be willing to design the PCIe riser for me, I've some PCB designing skills but only amateur level. However upon getting a reponse for €1200 for 2 days of work I decided to just go ahead and do it myself and now 3 hours of work and the riser is halfway done. -_-
I'm doing the bottom implementation pretty much, but will try and figure out a more elegant way then the add2psu board. I'm considering designing my own board just for 12V supply. Not totally sure yet.
I've seen this graph already and now I d believe the GPU was not getting enough juice.(have a 230W) I'll be ordering a 350W PSU and see if it works better. again bandwidth shouldn't be a problem unless the fact that the Q87T has PCIe 3.0 4x going through the PCH really craps out the bandwidth to the point of it being worse than PCIe 1.1 4x
This looks like a nice implementation, but what I wouldn't like is that fact that the case would basically be swiss-cheese.
the Neutronium v4 was also a tiny case, but I personally dislike the amount of ventilation required to get right of the hot air.
You talk about the GTX970 being loud, but it will be watercooled. also the pump I've selected is really quiet, ofcourse it can't be dead silent but it better than any DDC, D5 or alphacool ceramic pump I've used, It only takes 3.5W at 12V.
Also unless you are running sustained 100% load on the GPU and CPU the fans don't ramp up for a while, it has some thermal inertia due to the water being circulated.
This system is meant for 4K gaming or ultra quality 1080P, I think the 970 is good enough for most games on 4K with decent settings
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I think something like the Neutronium V4 is the same concept. His build is also in the 3L range. It is definitely doable and a lot cheaper that what i'm doing that's for sure. But I get a kick of making it smaller/same size and having it be watercooled.
dondan
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- Too less space under the board.
- Not enough space for GPU 6pin 8pin power mounting
- You have to use a flex riser and i think male PCB is to high and female pcb to long for mounting it like this.
- Only compatible for some motherboards because GPU bracket hit the I/O Ports.
- Too less space between GPU PCB and HDD.
- Too less space between HDPlex I/O and board.
- Where is the place for the HDplex jackexpander? There is no space for it.
iFreilicht
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Sorry to tell you, but you are in fact wrong. The AIO barebones do come with their own powerbrick, but the exact dimensions of the 19V power connector on the I/O of the board are specified by intel and those powerbricks plug into the board directly.
The mobo does actually have transformers for 3.3V, 5V and 12V on it, and it does power the AIO display and backlight via special connectors, one is a LVDS 40pin micro-coax cable for the panel (namely the ACES-50204-40), and the other is a generic 4pin connector for the backlight.
It is also able to power all sorts of HDDs and SSDs, and interestingly enough, most boards I used came with a cable that had four 7pin SATA power connectors and one smaller one that only supplies 3.3V and is most commonly used on slim ODDs.
So it could actually be possible to ditch the HDPlex entirely and power the GPU through those.
To be honest, that is a pretty genius idea, and it might just work.
This video shows it quite well:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/hardware-developers/ecs-g24-aio-pc-integration.html
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I'd imagine the transformers for 12V that are onboard don't pack the juice needed to power 200W+ of graphics card.
iFreilicht
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Is that actually what the 970 draws? But even if it was 150W, you'd probably be right.
It's draw will momentarily (for a handful of milliseconds) peak at much higher, but it;s average power draw is closer to 150-170W.
Unless the PSU's power protection circuitry has been set up with a very sensitive current-draw shutoff trigger (and has it placed AFTER the output smoothing stage), it won't be an issue. Remember how cheap 'n' nasty PSUs are rated by their peak load rather than their sustained load? A decent quality PSU will be rated for sustained load, but can provide a peak load significantly higher for very short periods.
Unless the PSU's power protection circuitry has been set up with a very sensitive current-draw shutoff trigger (and has it placed AFTER the output smoothing stage), it won't be an issue. Remember how cheap 'n' nasty PSUs are rated by their peak load rather than their sustained load? A decent quality PSU will be rated for sustained load, but can provide a peak load significantly higher for very short periods.
I've finished up my design for the PCIe Riser. Sent an Inquiry to the manufacturer to see what gold plating the edge fingers is gonna cost me. I hope I did something wrong in their software because when I selected gold plating I suddenly had to pay over €180 per PCB
Small update:
1st I've ordered my PCBs, after inquiring with the manufacturer I've gone ahead and ordered them with a Nickel/Gold finish. It's a lot cheaper than having a hard gold, but the difference is that hard gold is meant for a lot of insertions, which shouldn't be the case with my build. Now I just pay €3 extra per PCB and don't have to worry about the copper oxidizing.
2nd I've also gone ahead and ordered a new external PSU. I've chosen an HP 350W brick that I like the design of. It should have enough power to deal with the GTX970 and everything else.
3rd
I've ordered my custom radiator, it should be build and shipped this week which is amazing!
and lastly 4th
I had an ASUS GTX970 mini for my build but as you guys have told me the reference GTX970 is just as short and even less tall. So i've asked the webshop that I bought my ASUS GTX970 at if I can swap it which they will.
All in a couple things in the works for next month.
1st I've ordered my PCBs, after inquiring with the manufacturer I've gone ahead and ordered them with a Nickel/Gold finish. It's a lot cheaper than having a hard gold, but the difference is that hard gold is meant for a lot of insertions, which shouldn't be the case with my build. Now I just pay €3 extra per PCB and don't have to worry about the copper oxidizing.
2nd I've also gone ahead and ordered a new external PSU. I've chosen an HP 350W brick that I like the design of. It should have enough power to deal with the GTX970 and everything else.
3rd
I've ordered my custom radiator, it should be build and shipped this week which is amazing!
and lastly 4th
I had an ASUS GTX970 mini for my build but as you guys have told me the reference GTX970 is just as short and even less tall. So i've asked the webshop that I bought my ASUS GTX970 at if I can swap it which they will.
All in a couple things in the works for next month.
huguberhart
Weaksauce
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Cool. A Voodoo PSU. To bad that company went to hell with that small Firebird and their other stuff.
It's a company I do business with through my job, I've been lucky they had a old protoype die set, if it would have been truly custom I couldn't afford it, now it's just doable :
iFreilicht
[H]ard|Gawd
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Did you just order the PCB or will they solder the connector to it, too?
Also wow, that PSU is huuuuuge
Yeah 350W will be enough, I'm running my 970 off a 300W PSU (though I'm using the i7-4770U, which only has 45W TDP).A custom radiator is so rad
I think this was asked before, but is that a rad with included reservoir and pump?
Did you just order the PCB or will they solder the connector to it, too?
Also wow, that PSU is huuuuuge
A custom radiator is so rad
I think this was asked before, but is that a rad with included reservoir and pump?
I'm going to solder the connector my self, it's a simple through hole so no biggy.
The radiator is seperate, I have integrated the reservoir and pump but these are also seperate.
Looking at the specifications it is rated on the 12V line for:
144W MAX power and 108W Full load power.
It might handle more but that would require either a small heatsink, like the ones you can get for VRM or RAM or a fan blowing on it to cool the chips.
Honestly, I wouldn't use the HD-PLEX 160W with a GTX970 or GTX980 because of the way it regulates it's power consumption.
iFreilicht
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You didn't ask me, specifically, but if it powers just the GPU, it should work from my experience. I ran the 970 and the motherboard off of a 15A rail, so 180W.
Did you still get the same fps with the GTX970?
iFreilicht
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Yes, it was running on 100% load and 100-110% TDP limit. But after you said it has a continuous maximum output of 108W, I don't think you should go for it. Except you somehow watercool it, too.
Hello
I am desperate, can not solve this issue, implemetation of new ASUS GTX970-DCMOC-4GD5 DirectCU Mini OC
My problem is:
I built 6,8 lit SFF modifed Lian Li Q02 in 2012, using at time
gainward gtx 660 180mmx112mmx2slots, it is small media server and game SFF
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/sho...&highlight=q02
I would like to improve my gear with new GPU ASUS GTX970-DCMOC-4GD5 DirectCU Mini OC
Dimension of ASUS GPU is mentioned as 170mmx121,9mmx40,1mm,
But this GPU has a metal protection back plate and I think that 40,1mm is mentioned as dimension of total sum: PCB protection back plate till plastic cooler shroud.
I´ll appreciate whether somebody who award this GPU could provide me dimension of ASUS GTX970 mini
PCB/PCIe connector - to the top of protection plastic case/plstic cooler shroud
I contacted already ASUS Europe (Sales, Marketing, ROG); Unfortunately nobody can provide me this information, becasue all of them are using same source of information (ASUS official measurement 170x121,9x40,1mm).
Becasue my SFF case is very tight, specially in area PCIE to the bottom (GPU placement), correct mm dimension of GPU is very important, without this value It will be very difficult to think about further improvement of GPU.
Hope you can support me in this matter
Many Thanks and regards from Vienna
I am desperate, can not solve this issue, implemetation of new ASUS GTX970-DCMOC-4GD5 DirectCU Mini OC
My problem is:
I built 6,8 lit SFF modifed Lian Li Q02 in 2012, using at time
gainward gtx 660 180mmx112mmx2slots, it is small media server and game SFF
http://www.computerbase.de/forum/sho...&highlight=q02
I would like to improve my gear with new GPU ASUS GTX970-DCMOC-4GD5 DirectCU Mini OC
Dimension of ASUS GPU is mentioned as 170mmx121,9mmx40,1mm,
But this GPU has a metal protection back plate and I think that 40,1mm is mentioned as dimension of total sum: PCB protection back plate till plastic cooler shroud.
I´ll appreciate whether somebody who award this GPU could provide me dimension of ASUS GTX970 mini
PCB/PCIe connector - to the top of protection plastic case/plstic cooler shroud
I contacted already ASUS Europe (Sales, Marketing, ROG); Unfortunately nobody can provide me this information, becasue all of them are using same source of information (ASUS official measurement 170x121,9x40,1mm).
Becasue my SFF case is very tight, specially in area PCIE to the bottom (GPU placement), correct mm dimension of GPU is very important, without this value It will be very difficult to think about further improvement of GPU.
Hope you can support me in this matter
Many Thanks and regards from Vienna
iFreilicht
[H]ard|Gawd
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Please don't spam this request around, this thread is not about the 970 DirectCU. You posted this in the thread about that card and that should be enough. I'm hesitant to report this, it isn't harmful spam, but please refrain from doing this.
@iFreilicht
it is not a spam,
rrdiculous predication
I am trying to solve technical problem with implementation of mentioned GPU in my SFF case, details see above,
hope that somebody who bough already this card can take that measurement and help me to make decision to purchase or not Asus,
Thanks in advance
it is not a spam,
rrdiculous predication
I am trying to solve technical problem with implementation of mentioned GPU in my SFF case, details see above,
hope that somebody who bough already this card can take that measurement and help me to make decision to purchase or not Asus,
Thanks in advance
I've already returned the GPU so I cannot take measurement for you, but I do believe the 40,1mm is including the backplatt and PCIe connectors.
Just a small update, I've received my radiator on Monday and I've already put it through its paces to see how it stacks up to my reference radiator a Hardwarelabs GTX M160. As expected for it being smaller the performance is down, but only 20% at the maximum heatload(around 400W) and has the same performance up to about 125W.
Just as a size comparison here it is next to a 2x140mm radiator and next to a 120mmx38mm fan. The fans that I'll be using on the radiator are Noiseblocker 80mm slim PWM fans. The height of my case is dictacted by this radiator/fan combination which is 43.6 mm(28.6 mm for radiator and 15mm for the fans)
I've also finished up the final design for my CPU waterblock, it's only 10.5mm high.
The 350W powersupply has also arrived, it's MASSIVE!
The PCIe Riser PCB has been shipped to me and should arrive this week.
I'm waiting on the new GTX970 to arrive and the PCIe 16x socket so I can solder it and test the PCB.
Lastly I made some adjustments to the case. It has "legs" now and it stand a little higher of off the ground, this will improve airflow for the radiator.
The power button has been moved from the front to the back.
Perhaps the front is too clean now? What do you guys think. Let me know if you want to see the standing case with "legs" I don't think it will look nice but who knows.
Just as a size comparison here it is next to a 2x140mm radiator and next to a 120mmx38mm fan. The fans that I'll be using on the radiator are Noiseblocker 80mm slim PWM fans. The height of my case is dictacted by this radiator/fan combination which is 43.6 mm(28.6 mm for radiator and 15mm for the fans)
I've also finished up the final design for my CPU waterblock, it's only 10.5mm high.
The 350W powersupply has also arrived, it's MASSIVE!
The PCIe Riser PCB has been shipped to me and should arrive this week.
I'm waiting on the new GTX970 to arrive and the PCIe 16x socket so I can solder it and test the PCB.
Lastly I made some adjustments to the case. It has "legs" now and it stand a little higher of off the ground, this will improve airflow for the radiator.
The power button has been moved from the front to the back.
Perhaps the front is too clean now? What do you guys think. Let me know if you want to see the standing case with "legs" I don't think it will look nice but who knows.
Aibohphobia
[H]ard|Gawd
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Nice work! Doesn't get much more custom build than designing your own rad and block
I like the feet, though you may need to double-side tape a thin strip of rubber to the bottom to keep the case from moving around the desk.
I like the feet, though you may need to double-side tape a thin strip of rubber to the bottom to keep the case from moving around the desk.
Would it be possible to change the thread title?
As it is now it sounds like I'm building a watercooled system with a 3 liter reservoir or something
I would like to change it to:
[Build Log] H2O-Micro (<3 Liter Custom Watercooled Gaming Rig)
That way it's the same as in other forums.
As it is now it sounds like I'm building a watercooled system with a 3 liter reservoir or something
I would like to change it to:
[Build Log] H2O-Micro (<3 Liter Custom Watercooled Gaming Rig)
That way it's the same as in other forums.