Production 2010 Camaro Revealed

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Kil4Thril said:
Yes, but a Formula 1 car can barely move itself from a standstill. I doubt a pit crew will follow me to every stoplight :rolleyes::p Do you by chance drive something with a 2.0 I4 and think it is fast?
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lol the F1 comment was just an example of acceleration, braking and griping the road during high speeds. Thats what I call true performance. What you gonna do drag race at every stoplight? :rolleyes: Its illegal and dangerous to race on the street anyways. Do you by anychance drive something with a 4.6L V8 and think it can handle?
 
XLeezardx said:
lol the F1 comment was just an example of acceleration, braking and griping the road during high speeds. Thats what I call true performance. What you gonna do drag race at every stoplight? :rolleyes: Its illegal and dangerous to race on the street anyways. Do you by anychance drive something with a 4.6L V8 and think it can handle?
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1.3G's from a daily driven car wasn't too bad ;) My current vehicle? I don't even try to pull out of the driveway too quickly :p
 
Kil4Thril said:
1.3G's from a daily driven car wasn't too bad ;) My current vehicle? I don't even try to pull out of the driveway too quickly :p
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Please tell me what it is im dying to know. 1.3G sounds like R-compounds and massive suspension work. :D
 
Tzzird said:
Lot of bitching in here about certain aspects of the car... but am I the only one bothered by the weight? 1700kg = aproximately 3750 pounds.

What a tank.
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What a tank? You obviously haven't been following the new muscle cars lately then have you?

2007 Shelby GT500 = 3920lbs 500hp 12.9 seconds 1/4
2009 Challenger SRT8 = 4140lbs 425hp 13.3 seconds 1/4

Ferrari 575M Maranello = 3815lbs 500hp


Tzzird said:
When one of my chubbier 230 pound friend rides shotgun, I definitely feel that extra weight.
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If you "feel" the extra 250lbs in your Corvette...something is wrong with the car. I have a 3310lb car with 500hp / 550ftlbs and I can personally tell you I don't feel the difference when I have 4 passengers. That is the absolute JOY of having that much power, you can load it up with fat ladies and make them all sing ;)
 
^^^ Try turning and stoping @ 100mph, then you will feel the difference.
 
knob said:
While some may disagree with my choice in brands, or engines, there is one thing I'm sure we all share: the sound of the big V-8 never ever gets old.
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Out of order combustion and heavy cruciform crank FTL! Gimme a light flat plane crank and some balance shafts! or a V-12!
 
XLeezardx said:
^^^ Try turning and stoping @ 100mph, then you will feel the difference.
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Since you are so sure, what would the difference would be?


Just for fun, let's say my passengers weigh a combined total of 750lbs. In a car that is built for performance, what would the difference be...exactly?

Is a 3150lb Corvette going to outperform, out handle out brake that 3815lb Ferrari 575M Maranello? C’mon, there is 700lbs difference between the two.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just asking how you came to that conclusion. Besides, when is the last time you hung a corner at 100MPH in a production car? I've taken bends and turns at 100mph + that FELT like corners but I highly doubt the average street car is going to be cornering at 100MPH.
 
Steve said:
What a tank? You obviously haven't been following the new muscle cars lately then have you?

2007 Shelby GT500 = 3920lbs 500hp 12.9 seconds 1/4
2009 Challenger SRT8 = 4140lbs 425hp 13.3 seconds 1/4

Ferrari 575M Maranello = 3815lbs 500hp
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All that extra weight still affects the overall acceleration. Consider the Z06 that weighs around 3150 and can hit well under 12 seconds on the quarter with a decent driver. Yes, I do consider the Shelby and Challenger tanks. Then again, I'd probably survive more crashes at 100 mph with those two than I would my vette. :D


Steve said:
If you "feel" the extra 250lbs in your Corvette...something is wrong with the car. I have a 3310lb car with 500hp / 550ftlbs and I can personally tell you I don't feel the difference when I have 4 passengers.
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Not on normal city/freeway driving. Just when I'm trying to show him how it handles 0 to 80 to 0.

Steve said:
That is the absolute JOY of having that much power, you can load it up with fat ladies and make them all sing ;)
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:D
 
Tzzird said:
Yes, I do consider the Shelby and Challenger tanks. Then again, I'd probably survive more crashes at 100 mph with those two than I would my vette. :D

Not on normal city/freeway driving. Just when I'm trying to show him how it handles 0 to 80 to 0.

:D
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All good points. Yeah, they definitely are trending heavier, 38 years ago the Camaro weighed 3300lbs...it gained 500lb in the last four decades. ;)
 
Steve said:
Since you are so sure, what would the difference would be?


Just for fun, let's say my passengers weigh a combined total of 750lbs. In a car that is built for performance, what would the difference be...exactly?

Is a 3150lb Corvette going to outperform, out handle out brake that 3815lb Ferrari 575M Maranello? C’mon, there is 700lbs difference between the two.

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just asking how you came to that conclusion. Besides, when is the last time you hung a corner at 100MPH in a production car? I've taken bends and turns at 100mph + that FELT like corners but I highly doubt the average street car is going to be cornering at 100MPH.
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The difference would be dramatic and when I said corners didnt mean 90 degrees. That 750lbs of weight shifts in all directions when your braking, accelerating and turn, making your car off balanced. This ruins stability and control of your vehicle. Your throwing around 750+ extra weight.

For example: When you brake right before an apex, most of the weight shifts to the front of the vehicle. You will loose grip at the rear tires and have your back end come around and cause u to spin out.
 
Steve said:
All good points. Yeah, they definitely are trending heavier, 38 years ago the Camaro weighed 3300lbs...it gained 500lb in the last four decades. ;)
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Also gained power windows, power locks, cd changer, extra gauges, LED's, "stabilitrack", some form of launch control, more sound deadening, bigger wheels and tires, a full blown OBD2 computer, fuel injection, ABS, etc.... You know, 40 years of miscellaneous technology. But it does it all on much less fuel than in the past.

I think I would still rather have a 67 camaro however, hell I would rather have a Gen 4 over this, but I said pretty much the same thing about the new mustang.

The camaro I think is winning on price right now, the mustang is winning on sheer power, and the challenger is large, and sucks at doing burnouts.
 
ugly car is ugly. but seriously, all "American" are really good for is going in a straight line. atleast gm is trying to fix that with the zr-1...
 
risqu3 said:
ugly car is ugly. but seriously, all "American" are really good for is going in a straight line. atleast gm is trying to fix that with the zr-1...
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Biggest bull sh*t I've heard in years. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Trying to fix that? The corvette has always been exceptional on the track and off the track... The ZR-1 blows the doors off any car that the euros and japs can throw at it.
 
Sorry, I'm just getting tired of the "straight line", "it's plastic", "it's a tank", "mullet drivers" (you know this one is still coming), etc comments are always spouted off when people talk about fine American made cars.

We have the Ford GT, Saleen S7, ZR-1, GT-500, Panoz Esperante. Not to mention the lower priced alternatives which basically gives any car a run for it's money regardless of nationality: Mustang, Base Corvette, Z06, Camaro, Challanger, Viper, etc.
 
Ockie said:
Sorry, I'm just getting tired of the "straight line", "it's plastic", "it's a tank", "mullet drivers" (you know this one is still coming), etc comments are always spouted off when people talk about fine American made cars.

We have the Ford GT, Saleen S7, ZR-1, GT-500, Panoz Esperante. Not to mention the lower priced alternatives which basically gives any car a run for it's money regardless of nationality: Mustang, Base Corvette, Z06, Camaro, Challanger, Viper, etc.
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Since when is the Viper a low cost alternative? :D

As a former rice-burner (94' GSR with turbo), I would never go back to low displacement engines. My C6 has taught me that there definitely is no replacement for displacement.
 
Ockie said:
Biggest bull sh*t I've heard in years. Sorry to put it so bluntly.

Trying to fix that? The corvette has always been exceptional on the track and off the track... The ZR-1 blows the doors off any car that the euros and japs can throw at it.
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zr1 msrp: 100k?
GTR35 MSRP: 81k CAD

(got these via google im not too sure about the ZR1 as the only one i saw was an auction for zr1 going for 163k and they were saying its 50k over the MSRP.)
 
ehh cant edit, USD MSRP of gtr is about $71-$72K. ofcourse both vehicles are getting markups because of demand.
 
Ockie said:
Sorry, I'm just getting tired of the "straight line", "it's plastic", "it's a tank", "mullet drivers" (you know this one is still coming), etc comments are always spouted off when people talk about fine American made cars.

We have the Ford GT, Saleen S7, ZR-1, GT-500, Panoz Esperante. Not to mention the lower priced alternatives which basically gives any car a run for it's money regardless of nationality: Mustang, Base Corvette, Z06, Camaro, Challanger, Viper, etc.
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I agree, im tired of it too and these argument goes back and forth. If both sides would just stfu and just appreciate all cars from all different classes, then the world would be a much better place.
 
XLeezardx said:
I agree, im tired of it too and these argument goes back and forth. If both sides would just stfu and just appreciate all cars from all different classes, then the world would be a much better place.
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ofcourse then we would argue that all american cars belong in the 'big bloated can only go in a straight line" catagory :p:D
 
risqu3 said:
zr1 msrp: 100k?
GTR35 MSRP: 81k CAD

(got these via google im not too sure about the ZR1 as the only one i saw was an auction for zr1 going for 163k and they were saying its 50k over the MSRP.)
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You are close, they are both heavily overpaid MSRP currently with the demand from collectors and car buffs. A GTR would be one bad ass car to have.

Here is some pictures that I have of a ZR-1... I think you may appreciate them... they did take a lot of european cues from this (imo).

dsc00107me3.jpg


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dsc00110mp0.jpg




XLeezardx said:
I agree, im tired of it too and these argument goes back and forth. If both sides would just stfu and just appreciate all cars from all different classes, then the world would be a much better place.
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Thanks for that.

Put any car in my driveway and I'll be happy. I'm a big car person and I hate it when people pick on cars because of where they are made or the culture they are born in. I look at a BMW and think "damn, I love the curves and the sound of that thing" rather than "Eew it's european, no space and it sucks when I want to drag people".

I agree, if people will appreciate each car for it's culture, I think we all can produce some fine ass cars.
 
yeah, its a nice car, they are taking cues from BMW, and audi on the styling. but what i have a problem with (which really makes an american car "american") is the size of the engine to do it all. 6.2L V8 to prdoduce 500somethign horsepower, where as nissan cramps out 480 horsepower out of a 3.8L V6 TT engine, it may have less torque but there is a huge difference between a 3.6L V6 and a 6.2L V8.

(pardon the typing errors, my video card is gone and im using a backup computer with a shitty keyboard)
 
risqu3 said:
yeah, its a nice car, they are taking cues from BMW, and audi on the styling. but what i have a problem with (which really makes an american car "american") is the size of the engine to do it all. 6.2L V8 to prdoduce 500somethign horsepower, where as nissan cramps out 480 horsepower out of a 3.8L V6 TT engine, it may have less torque but there is a huge difference between a 3.6L V6 and a 6.2L V8.

(pardon the typing errors, my video card is gone and im using a backup computer with a shitty keyboard)
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You should see what BMW and Mercedes are starting to do, large displacement.

XLeezardx said:
Hows bout this for some eye candy.

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I wish I had those in my driveway.
 
Ockie said:
Just because you turbo your car it does not mean you downsize your engine.

Instead of looking at dreamy future articles, focus on the car they just released:

C63 AMG. 6.2L V8 producing 451 HP.

or BMW M3. 4.0L V8 producing 414HP

or Audi RS4. 4.2L V8 producing 420HP


and you are sitting there telling me that large V8's are "American"
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Errr...since when are 4-4.2 litre V8's "large"? That's a fairly small V8. Now the Mercs...those are pretty substantial.
 
risqu3 said:
yeah, its a nice car, they are taking cues from BMW, and audi on the styling. but what i have a problem with (which really makes an american car "american") is the size of the engine to do it all. 6.2L V8 to prdoduce 500somethign horsepower, where as nissan cramps out 480 horsepower out of a 3.8L V6 TT engine, it may have less torque but there is a huge difference between a 3.6L V6 and a 6.2L V8.

(pardon the typing errors, my video card is gone and im using a backup computer with a shitty keyboard)
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432 ft-lbs. and 480hp..

Gm's 6.2L ZR-1 engine is rated ~640hp, 610 ft lbs of torque. There's a good bit of difference.
 
Oh4Sh0 said:
432 ft-lbs. and 480hp..

Gm's 6.2L ZR-1 engine is rated ~640hp, 610 ft lbs of torque. There's a good bit of difference.
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so needing 2.8L more for 160 horse power and 190ish ft/lbs of torque? no thanks.

do you even know what i was trying to say?
 
XLeezardx said:
Please tell me what it is im dying to know. 1.3G sounds like R-compounds and massive suspension work. :D
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And far more money than I want the wife to know. It was an ASSload of suspension work, and the tires were helpful, too. BMR and Maximum Motorsports adored me:p
 
risqu3 said:
so needing 2.8L more for 160 horse power and 190ish ft/lbs of torque? no thanks.

do you even know what i was trying to say?
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Displacement alone is a terrible comparison.

Compare the physical size and weight of those engines and you're going to find those smaller displacement DOHC engines are going to be almost as large and heavy as Chevy's 6.2L single cam pushrod engine. DOHC heads on a V8 are friggin' huge.
 
have fun modifying that interior. radio built in, gauges all over, separate pods for tach/speedo.
 
I ran my numbers and such today.

Holy crap. Either GM is going for LEGENDARY FAILURE or they have completely forgotten how to build an engine period. (Not that anyone I've seen posting so far is even remotely qualified themselves..)

Seriously. The fuel economy is beyond crap, and the horsepower for the displacement is just worthless. Handling with that high center of gravity, not a chance. Now fully expecting 2011 Cramarrow to abandon both powerplants for the DOHC 3.5 V6 from Buick dev, Northstar V8 from Cadillac dev, and produce significantly better numbers on all fronts. Don't know who they think is going to buy a car which has worse gas mileage than my '04 Regal GS with Abboud - even with my pulley I routinely get 36-38MPG highway.

Oh, and yeah, definitely forget customizing that thing without building yourself a whole new dash from scratch. Ford did the same thing on the new Focus - which was atrocious enough already. There's a growing trend toward making it impossible to replace radios again, likely to force customers to buy the next model up. Hooray automaker desperation.
 
I still prefer my (deceased) 2005 Acura RSX Type-S's 1998cc engine that happily purred to 8800RPM when tuned.

Now, I drive another 2.0L engine but it's turbocharged...and from VW! (2008.5 GTI)
 
In all honesty, why would I bother when I can buy and assemble a brand new 1969 Camaro from year One, and the whole project would run mid $30K's.... with a 502 and TPI which is a better engine, a T56 tranny and a Ford 9" posi rearend. Sorry but the 69 was the best looking, even though they tried hard to copy the "essence" of the look. They also have the 70 Cuda, 71 TransAm and 67 Mustang fastback I believe. Imagine a 67 Shelby knockoff with a KeithBlack 600 cu in "BOSS429" under the hood.

That ZR1 is very nice, a true master peice of engineering for $103K, but Carbon Fiber in mass production is the real news story there. The aluminum frame is next on the list.

As for the engine control.... gee like wow, only took you 20 years to bother to do the fucking obvious. Even obvious to YOU, GM, since you did it before in the 70's. But it won't really be as useful if they haven't implemented cracking the exhaust value open a smidge on the compression stroke.... which also saves money, cause you can dump the AIR pump since the engine can be it's own for free.
 
AreEss said:
I ran my numbers and such today.

Holy crap. Either GM is going for LEGENDARY FAILURE or they have completely forgotten how to build an engine period. (Not that anyone I've seen posting so far is even remotely qualified themselves..)

Seriously. The fuel economy is beyond crap, and the horsepower for the displacement is just worthless. Handling with that high center of gravity, not a chance. Now fully expecting 2011 Cramarrow to abandon both powerplants for the DOHC 3.5 V6 from Buick dev, Northstar V8 from Cadillac dev, and produce significantly better numbers on all fronts. Don't know who they think is going to buy a car which has worse gas mileage than my '04 Regal GS with Abboud - even with my pulley I routinely get 36-38MPG highway.

Oh, and yeah, definitely forget customizing that thing without building yourself a whole new dash from scratch. Ford did the same thing on the new Focus - which was atrocious enough already. There's a growing trend toward making it impossible to replace radios again, likely to force customers to buy the next model up. Hooray automaker desperation.
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What numbers did you run? It gets 30+ mpg :confused:
 
SilverSliver said:
Errr...since when are 4-4.2 litre V8's "large"? That's a fairly small V8. Now the Mercs...those are pretty substantial.
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Follow the posts and you will see the response is within a specific contex....
 
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