Well, I finally got the system in my sig together, and it works fine, except for two things. The first one is the one I'm asking about right here. I was going to overclock the system today, but when I started Prime95 and ran an in-place FFT test, I got an error right away and the test stoped. Next, I ran a small FFT test, but still got an error within the first five seconds. So, I tried a "blend" test, and the comptuer restarted right away. So, after it booted back up, I ran the tests again. This time they ran fine for about five minutes at which point I stoped the tests. So I thought the problem was gone. But after the PC had been on for about ten minutes I ran the tests again, and got more errors. I havn't even overclocked the system yet. My temps are fine, about 37C idle and 44C load. I havn't tried memtest yet (how do you make memtest boot from a CD)? Any idea what could be causing this and what I need to do to fix it?
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Prime95 Errors, temps fine
- Thread starter HOCP4ME
- Start date
Trepidati0n
[H]F Junkie
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- Oct 26, 2004
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HOCP4ME said:
MEMTEST IS BUILT INTO YOUR MOTHERBOARD/BIOS <-- yes, caps were on purpose. It is in one of the sub-menus. Just turn it on. Next time you reboot memtest will automatically start. Its nifty.
-tReP
Trepidati0n said:
Sorry, I looked in the BIOS and couldn't find anything that looked like it was memtest. I guess I'll go look again, because you're right, it should be there. BTW, the PC's been on for about 30 minutes now and no Prime95 errors, so it looks like it's an intermittent problem.
acascianelli-Yes, that's right. I'm getting P95 errors with everything at stock speeds.
I think I might know what the problem is. The RAM I bought is rated to run at 3.2 volts, but it's running at 2.6 right now. The timings are looser than it's rated 2-2-2, but I still think that might be causing the problem. I'm going to try memtest now and I'll see if raising the voltage helps.
EDIT-Sorry, but I cannot find memtest in the BIOS. Could someone please tell me where to find it?
EDIT2-Oh, and I also have this other problem that might be related. If I boot the PC without the Windows CD in the drive, it will say "boot CD :", then after a second it will say something like "insert boot disk" and it won't boot. But, I found that if I leave the Windows XP CD in the drive when I start the computer, it will say "boot CD :", then it will say "press any key to boot from CD...". If I don't press anything, it will boot from the hard drive as normal. Could this be related to the Prime95 errors?
EDIT3-I just discovered another problem. When I went into the BIOS to increase the DRAM voltage, it won't increase. No matter what voltage I select, it alaways goes back to 2.60. Even if I try to decrease the voltage, it goes back to 2.60. Any idea what is causing all of these problems?
EDIT4-Sorry about all of the edits. I just started folding@home and right away it terminated due to instablillity. I know that wasn't just a coincidence. Something is very wrong here.
Okay, update time:
Prime95 Errors: I cleared the CMOS. After that I got no Prime95 errors for a while. The large FFT and the blend tests worked fine, but then I tried a small FFT test. It failed, and now after that the other tests fail as well. There is still a problem here.
DRAM Voltage: I think I found a way around this problem. If I change the voltage, then hit escape, save, and exit, the voltage stays at what I set it at. If I scroll down after a change the voltage though, it goes back to 2.60. So, I think I have found a way to get the voltage to stay at what I set it at.
Boot Problem: I have my boot priority set to CD first, hard drive second. If I set it to hard drive first, it won't boot regardless of whether I have the CD in the drive. This doesn't really bother me much, I would like it to be fixed, but I want to get the Prime95 problem fixed first.
Questions:
How do I run memtest without a floppy drive?
How do I find out if I have the latest BIOS version?
What else can be done about the Prime95 problem?
Prime95 Errors: I cleared the CMOS. After that I got no Prime95 errors for a while. The large FFT and the blend tests worked fine, but then I tried a small FFT test. It failed, and now after that the other tests fail as well. There is still a problem here.
DRAM Voltage: I think I found a way around this problem. If I change the voltage, then hit escape, save, and exit, the voltage stays at what I set it at. If I scroll down after a change the voltage though, it goes back to 2.60. So, I think I have found a way to get the voltage to stay at what I set it at.
Boot Problem: I have my boot priority set to CD first, hard drive second. If I set it to hard drive first, it won't boot regardless of whether I have the CD in the drive. This doesn't really bother me much, I would like it to be fixed, but I want to get the Prime95 problem fixed first.
Questions:
How do I run memtest without a floppy drive?
How do I find out if I have the latest BIOS version?
What else can be done about the Prime95 problem?
Well, yes I have an OEM version of Nero but it says it doesn't work on Windows 64. I have my other hard drive with the "regular" Windows XP so I'll try running it on that.
Okay, I found out what is causing the problem with Prime95. It's, well, I know this sounds weird but I think it's my modem. I have dial-up, and when I'm connected to the internet, Prime95 errors, but if I'm not connected, Prime95 does fine. So, do I need to buy a new modem or can I just leave it like this?
BTW thanks for all of the help everyone.
Okay, I found out what is causing the problem with Prime95. It's, well, I know this sounds weird but I think it's my modem. I have dial-up, and when I'm connected to the internet, Prime95 errors, but if I'm not connected, Prime95 does fine. So, do I need to buy a new modem or can I just leave it like this?
BTW thanks for all of the help everyone.
jebo_4jc said:
Yes, I'm sure. I just tried it again. I ran a Prime95 test while connected. There was an error right away, and I mean the second I hit the go button, there was an error. I tried it again, same thing. Then, I exited my ISP program, and tried the test again. I got an error again, and I thought "oh well, back to square one", but then I heard a "click" from the modem. As soon as I heard that click, I started another test and it ran fine. By "fine" I don't mean stable for 24 hours, I don't have enough time to do that right now. But it ran for about 60 seconds before I stopped the test, which was well past the point where it found an error when I was connected. I will leave the test running tonight and see how long it is stable, but since I didn't get an error in the first 30 seconds, I know the modem has something to do with it.
Interesting. Hopefully it is the modem, and is causing a failure....they are easily replaced. In fact, I would imagine a uninstall/reinstall of the modem may fix these issues. Worse case scenario is there's something wonky about the PCI slots on your motherboard or something.
Okay, I just ran a Prime95 test last night. I can't really tell how long it ran, but it looks like it was about 3 hours before the computer restarted. There was no error, the computer just restarted. At least that's what it seems, it looks like the computer restarted for some reason. Maybe it was just a power outage or something, I'm going to try it again tonight. I started another test about ten minutes ago, and guess what happened when I connected to the internet to post this? That's right, Prime95 errored again.
Update:
I updated the BIOS to the latest version. That soved my problem with the memory voltages but not the Prime95 problem. That also allowed me to run memtest, which made it through all tests with just one error in test 6. Just to make sure I tested that address again, and there was no error, so the memory is fine at 2.6V. So the next thing I did was try a different modem, that didn't fix it. So it's probably not the modem, but there's still a possiblility it is because this modem had the same chipset (connexant) as my other modem. I also tried putting a sound card in the computer to test the PCI slot, but the sound card wouldn't install. That was probably because the drivers weren't compatible with Windows 64, not because of the PCI problem.
One thing I noticed though. Most of the errors I get in Prime95 when I'm connected to the internet are very bad ones. Most are like these two:
FATAL ERROR: Resulting sum was -1606233251671976, expected: 45472353573998.81
FATAL ERROR: Resulting sum was -2534508972494310, expected: 118791268934010.2
If my CPU really was making calculations that far off, how could my PC be stable for more than a few seconds? Wouldn't a constant stream of errors like those cause the PC to crash and restart? That's what leads me to believe this is a software problem, and interference between the chipset or modem drivers and Prime95 that's causing Prime95 to report false errors. I just don't see how my CPU could make mistakes that bad and the computer still runs just fine.
Questions:
What do you think about my idea that it is a software problem?
Is there anything else I can do to remedy this besides take the whole PC apart and RMA the board?
Is this a problem I can just leave alone? I know that I will never need those PCI slots for anything but the modem, and the modem works fine as it is right now. Will (probably false) errors in Prime95 cause anything else to go wrong in my system? Because so far I havn't noticed anything else except that boot problem I mentioned, and I found a way around that anyway.
Next I will try upgrading the chipset drivers. Thanks everyone for all of the help.
Oh, and one other thing I noticed. Speedfan says that my -12V rail is at -9.40V and my -5V rail is at 0.48V. Is this the cause of the problem?
I updated the BIOS to the latest version. That soved my problem with the memory voltages but not the Prime95 problem. That also allowed me to run memtest, which made it through all tests with just one error in test 6. Just to make sure I tested that address again, and there was no error, so the memory is fine at 2.6V. So the next thing I did was try a different modem, that didn't fix it. So it's probably not the modem, but there's still a possiblility it is because this modem had the same chipset (connexant) as my other modem. I also tried putting a sound card in the computer to test the PCI slot, but the sound card wouldn't install. That was probably because the drivers weren't compatible with Windows 64, not because of the PCI problem.
One thing I noticed though. Most of the errors I get in Prime95 when I'm connected to the internet are very bad ones. Most are like these two:
FATAL ERROR: Resulting sum was -1606233251671976, expected: 45472353573998.81
FATAL ERROR: Resulting sum was -2534508972494310, expected: 118791268934010.2
If my CPU really was making calculations that far off, how could my PC be stable for more than a few seconds? Wouldn't a constant stream of errors like those cause the PC to crash and restart? That's what leads me to believe this is a software problem, and interference between the chipset or modem drivers and Prime95 that's causing Prime95 to report false errors. I just don't see how my CPU could make mistakes that bad and the computer still runs just fine.
Questions:
What do you think about my idea that it is a software problem?
Is there anything else I can do to remedy this besides take the whole PC apart and RMA the board?
Is this a problem I can just leave alone? I know that I will never need those PCI slots for anything but the modem, and the modem works fine as it is right now. Will (probably false) errors in Prime95 cause anything else to go wrong in my system? Because so far I havn't noticed anything else except that boot problem I mentioned, and I found a way around that anyway.
Next I will try upgrading the chipset drivers. Thanks everyone for all of the help.
Oh, and one other thing I noticed. Speedfan says that my -12V rail is at -9.40V and my -5V rail is at 0.48V. Is this the cause of the problem?
Whoa. Those numbers are way bad. Either speedfan isn't detecting them properly, they aren't being reported properly, or you have a PSU that is bad bad bad. You have a quality PSU, so you shouldn't be seeing numbers like that.
Well, would that cause my problem with the PCI slots?
I really just want to know if I need to RMA anything, and if so what part I need to RMA, or if I can go ahead and overclock the system and just buy an external modem or something. I know that I will never use those PCI slots if I get an external modem.
I really just want to know if I need to RMA anything, and if so what part I need to RMA, or if I can go ahead and overclock the system and just buy an external modem or something. I know that I will never use those PCI slots if I get an external modem.
Okay, major update:
A problem with my PCI slots has been ruled out. I found an old PCI USB 2.0 card and plugged it into my PC. I then plugged my CD burner into it, burned some files to a CD, and then opened those files from the CD to verify that they copied correctly. And, I did it all with Prime95 running in the background. So sending data over the PCI bus is not what triggers the errors. I also ran diagnostics on the modem, and Prime95 didn't error when I did that either. But, if I go into a phone dialer program and "pick up the phone", Prime95 errors. It's not the sending of data over the PCI bus that triggers the errors, it's the opening of a connection from the computer to the phone line.
Yes, I know. That's very weird. But, it's true. Since I now know there is nothing wrong with my PCI slots, either both modems I tried aren't compatible (very possible, since they are both connexant), or there is a software conflict and those errors aren't real. so, I'll just buy a modem from Newegg that isn't Connexant. If that doesn't work, I'll buy an external modem. If that doesn't work, I'll just ignore the problem since it hasn't caused any other problems so far.
Let me know if there's anything else I should do before I OC the system and void the RMA policy. As of now though I don't think RMA'ing the board will solve the problem.
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I'm pretty sure what I need to do to solve the problem now. Your suggestions helped me rule out everything else, so thanks.
A problem with my PCI slots has been ruled out. I found an old PCI USB 2.0 card and plugged it into my PC. I then plugged my CD burner into it, burned some files to a CD, and then opened those files from the CD to verify that they copied correctly. And, I did it all with Prime95 running in the background. So sending data over the PCI bus is not what triggers the errors. I also ran diagnostics on the modem, and Prime95 didn't error when I did that either. But, if I go into a phone dialer program and "pick up the phone", Prime95 errors. It's not the sending of data over the PCI bus that triggers the errors, it's the opening of a connection from the computer to the phone line.
Yes, I know. That's very weird. But, it's true. Since I now know there is nothing wrong with my PCI slots, either both modems I tried aren't compatible (very possible, since they are both connexant), or there is a software conflict and those errors aren't real. so, I'll just buy a modem from Newegg that isn't Connexant. If that doesn't work, I'll buy an external modem. If that doesn't work, I'll just ignore the problem since it hasn't caused any other problems so far.
Let me know if there's anything else I should do before I OC the system and void the RMA policy. As of now though I don't think RMA'ing the board will solve the problem.
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I'm pretty sure what I need to do to solve the problem now. Your suggestions helped me rule out everything else, so thanks.
Sorry for the triple post.
I just tried to install two programs from the CD drive connected to my PCI USB 2.0 card. The computer kept restarting during the intstallation. That means that there is something wrong with the PCI slots. Now, I just need to figure out if the problem is those very low voltages on the PSU, or a defective motherboard. I will get a voltmeter to find out if those readings are correct.
I now have just one more question:
Can an extreme undervoltage on the -12V and -5V rails cause a problem with the PCI slots?
I just tried to install two programs from the CD drive connected to my PCI USB 2.0 card. The computer kept restarting during the intstallation. That means that there is something wrong with the PCI slots. Now, I just need to figure out if the problem is those very low voltages on the PSU, or a defective motherboard. I will get a voltmeter to find out if those readings are correct.
I now have just one more question:
Can an extreme undervoltage on the -12V and -5V rails cause a problem with the PCI slots?
Review the Power Supply Forum here if you have not already. The first link directly answers your question however.HOCP4ME said:
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=756864
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=768641
gl
Umm, well yes I know I got my question answered. I also edited my post and said my question was answered and I took back what I said about the minus rails. But it seems you edited my post and deleted everything except for the part I said had already been answered. May I ask why you did that? (Not to be rude or anything, thanks for posting those links.)
I'm just going to do some wild speculation that may or may not be anywhere close to the answer to the problem.
You are running XP 64 on a dual core AMD 64. Both of those items are very new and relitively untested.
I have to ask, did you download the 64-bit version of Prime95 or the 32-bit version? Personally, i would try both and see if I got similar results. If you are running the 64-bit version, this whole issue may be caused by a bug in the new build. I would contact the developers to see if they can find a reason for the error in the code.
woltman@alum.mit.edu
This could also be caused by a buggy driver for that modem card of yours. Since the errors only really start to appear when the modem is connected, I would suggest that drivers you are using are not entirely compatible with XP 64. Did you check the HCL for XP 64 to see if that card was listed on there?
http://testedproducts.windowsmarketplace.com/results.aspx?&bCatID=824&cpID=0&ocID=0&OR=1
have you connected to Windows Update to see if there are any new drivers available for you to download?
This could also somehow be related to the Data Execution Prevention (DEP) or No execute (NX) technology that is built into the AMD64. You could try to disable that by following the instructions on this page.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2mempr.mspx
/just thinking out loud
Good luck
You are running XP 64 on a dual core AMD 64. Both of those items are very new and relitively untested.
I have to ask, did you download the 64-bit version of Prime95 or the 32-bit version? Personally, i would try both and see if I got similar results. If you are running the 64-bit version, this whole issue may be caused by a bug in the new build. I would contact the developers to see if they can find a reason for the error in the code.
woltman@alum.mit.edu
This could also be caused by a buggy driver for that modem card of yours. Since the errors only really start to appear when the modem is connected, I would suggest that drivers you are using are not entirely compatible with XP 64. Did you check the HCL for XP 64 to see if that card was listed on there?
http://testedproducts.windowsmarketplace.com/results.aspx?&bCatID=824&cpID=0&ocID=0&OR=1
have you connected to Windows Update to see if there are any new drivers available for you to download?
This could also somehow be related to the Data Execution Prevention (DEP) or No execute (NX) technology that is built into the AMD64. You could try to disable that by following the instructions on this page.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/sp2mempr.mspx
/just thinking out loud
Good luck
I tried both versions, same probem. Also, I don't think it's a bug in the program because it happens with all three types of tests, and I get a different error every time.
Hmm, I think my card is there, but it doesn't say it's been tested for Windows x64, it just says Windows XP.
Thanks for the suggestion, I will do that.
Well, my system is set so that "only necessary Windows services and drivers are protected." How do I edit the BOOT.INI file to set it to "alaways off"?
Well, I'm not running a dual core AMD, but yeah, you're right. I never thought these errors were real, I also think they are just software conflicts caused by the lack of driver support in Windows x64 right now. My modem driver that I am using was made in 2002, there's no way it could fully support Windows x64, I don't think there were even 64-bit CPU's back then. The problem is that I can't find a modem that does have 64-bit drivers. I bought a USRobotics modem, and it wouldn't even install. It wasn't on the HCL. I guess I'm lucky the modem I'm using right now even works at all. I guess I'll try a USRobotics modem that is on the HCL next.
Thanks for the help.
I couldn't tell you from experience how to disable NX but I'm pretty sure I saw something about doing it in the control panel towards the bottom of that article.
My bad, for some reason I though you said you were flexing dual-core muscle in one of your posts.
Good luck
My bad, for some reason I though you said you were flexing dual-core muscle in one of your posts.
Good luck
Yeah, it says that in the control panel you can change from on for Windows services only or on for all processes. Mine is set to on for Windows services only. I want to know how to change it to off for everything. I'm not sure if that's possible though, the only way would be to edit the BOOT.INI file. Is there a way to do that?
I get no other problems with my PC while I'm on the internet though, and it's stable in Prime95 when I'm not, so I'm just going to ignore the problem. I just don't see how "picking up the phone" with the modem can cause my CPU to make errors, yet sending data over the PCI bus to the modem (going into properties and clicking "query modem") doesn't cause any errors. This couldn't be a hardware problem, it has to be a driver/software issue, in which case I'm not worried about it.
Thanks for the help.
I get no other problems with my PC while I'm on the internet though, and it's stable in Prime95 when I'm not, so I'm just going to ignore the problem. I just don't see how "picking up the phone" with the modem can cause my CPU to make errors, yet sending data over the PCI bus to the modem (going into properties and clicking "query modem") doesn't cause any errors. This couldn't be a hardware problem, it has to be a driver/software issue, in which case I'm not worried about it.
Thanks for the help.
If you can't do it from MSCONFIG (start - Run - msconfig)
try directly editing the file
You'll have to change your view options to show all hidden files and folders and uncheck hide protected operating system files.
Boot.ini will be on the root of C
try directly editing the file
You'll have to change your view options to show all hidden files and folders and uncheck hide protected operating system files.
Boot.ini will be on the root of C
Thanks for the reply.
I changed it to "alaways off" and that didn't work.
I also noticed something else unusual. When I'm connected to the internet, there is that little icon in the system tray that has a picture of two PCs and the PCs light up when data is transmitted over the connection. Well, when I double click that icon, at the lower right under the "recieved" section, there is a row that says "errors". I've been connected for only 11 minutes and the number of errors is up to 300 already. When I access a page the errors just keep going up up up. It doesn't seem to be affecting the connection however. Sometimes the connection will "freeze" for about ten seconds, but it wasn't doing that before so I think that's just my ISP having problems. I have alot of problems with my ISP.
But I guess what that means is that the errors are real. I really hope I can find a modem that will work, I've tried three so far and two worked but had errors and the third wouldn't even install. I don't think it's a problem with my board though because like I said I have a USB card in there that's working fine.
I changed it to "alaways off" and that didn't work.
I also noticed something else unusual. When I'm connected to the internet, there is that little icon in the system tray that has a picture of two PCs and the PCs light up when data is transmitted over the connection. Well, when I double click that icon, at the lower right under the "recieved" section, there is a row that says "errors". I've been connected for only 11 minutes and the number of errors is up to 300 already. When I access a page the errors just keep going up up up. It doesn't seem to be affecting the connection however. Sometimes the connection will "freeze" for about ten seconds, but it wasn't doing that before so I think that's just my ISP having problems. I have alot of problems with my ISP.
But I guess what that means is that the errors are real. I really hope I can find a modem that will work, I've tried three so far and two worked but had errors and the third wouldn't even install. I don't think it's a problem with my board though because like I said I have a USB card in there that's working fine.
I highly suggest you install WinXP 32 bit and see if you have the same problems. If you don't, then it is more than likely a WinXP 64 bit problem, most likely with drivers. There just isn't a lot of support out for that right now and problems like this will pop up.
I do not suggest just ignoring this problem. It is a problem now and will very likely cause trouble later. If using the modem is messing up Prime95, then it will mess up other things as well. I would not trust your system.
Also, any errors in memtest means there is something wrong with your RAM. One or two passes is not enough to say it's good. I would suggest at minimum ten passes of all tests. If there are any errors then there is something wrong with the RAM. If you don't want to RMA the RAM then your best bet would be to up the voltage on the RAM, probably up to 2.8 and see if it's stable then. If not, then RMA the RAM since it's not in good shape.
I still suggest going with WinXP 32 bit and see if you are having any problems there. If not, then stick with that.
I do not suggest just ignoring this problem. It is a problem now and will very likely cause trouble later. If using the modem is messing up Prime95, then it will mess up other things as well. I would not trust your system.
Also, any errors in memtest means there is something wrong with your RAM. One or two passes is not enough to say it's good. I would suggest at minimum ten passes of all tests. If there are any errors then there is something wrong with the RAM. If you don't want to RMA the RAM then your best bet would be to up the voltage on the RAM, probably up to 2.8 and see if it's stable then. If not, then RMA the RAM since it's not in good shape.
I still suggest going with WinXP 32 bit and see if you are having any problems there. If not, then stick with that.
SmokeRngs said:I highly suggest you install WinXP 32 bit and see if you have the same problems. If you don't, then it is more than likely a WinXP 64 bit problem, most likely with drivers. There just isn't a lot of support out for that right now and problems like this will pop up.
I do not suggest just ignoring this problem. It is a problem now and will very likely cause trouble later. If using the modem is messing up Prime95, then it will mess up other things as well. I would not trust your system.
Also, any errors in memtest means there is something wrong with your RAM. One or two passes is not enough to say it's good. I would suggest at minimum ten passes of all tests. If there are any errors then there is something wrong with the RAM. If you don't want to RMA the RAM then your best bet would be to up the voltage on the RAM, probably up to 2.8 and see if it's stable then. If not, then RMA the RAM since it's not in good shape.
I still suggest going with WinXP 32 bit and see if you are having any problems there. If not, then stick with that.
Well, you're right. It is causing other problems in my system. FAH won't work, it keeps terminating due to instabillity. I will try Windows 32-bit.
Well, I installed Windows 32-bit, and it looks like the problem is gone. Thanks for suggesting that, I don't know why I didn't try that in the first place.
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I kinda wish I could still use Windows x64, but I guess I'll have to wait until either broadband becomes avalible here or Longhorn is released.
Thanks for all of the help everyone. I kinda wish I could still use Windows x64, but I guess I'll have to wait until either broadband becomes avalible here or Longhorn is released.
Lord of Shadows
2[H]4U
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Sounds like your memory sucks, raise the voltage, if the problems still occur, (any memtest errors or prime errors, run prime minimum of 12 hours) try using a mem divider.
Lord of Shadows said:
I thought I clearly stated in my sig that I got the memory stable for at least 8 passes in memtest at 1.5-2-2-5 at 245Mhz at 3.2V with the CPU at 295x9 stable in Prime95 for at least 12 hours. (18 hours actually, I ran another test since I made my sig.) What gave everyone the idea that my memory sucks? Yeah, I had an error with it at 2.6V. But I tweaked some things and raised the voltage and now it's running way above what it's rated for. I mean, you can't get much better than 1.5-2-2-5 timings 45Mhz above stock speed, can you?
Lord of Shadows
2[H]4U
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HOCP4ME said:
Forgot to mention timings as well, seems that this error was unresolved, but I must admit your posts are quite wordy so sorry if I missed something.
Lord of Shadows said:
Yeah, I never posted saying that I had solved that error. I thought that since I put it in my sig people would see it. Sorry, I guess I should have posted about that. But, the RAM is stable now and I have no problems with my PC at this point.