Possibly scammed.

[Mugenx]

What is your explanation for trying to sell the phone to multiple people after you supposedly already sold it? Do you have a stockpile of iPhones with spider-cracked screens?

^^^ QFT!

 

[happyboy]

A day after I saw this was sold he pm'ed me saying the phone was available. I passed because it seemed fishy. Then I see it listed today so I thought the deal really fell through. I had just deleted my messages or I would have proof, anyway from an admin to restore my deleted messages?

That's why I never delete my messages, but too bad it's almost fillled now so I will have to delete the ones that aren't important.

 

[FM_Fixxxer]

Unfortunately you are screwed.

God I hate paypal.

He's not screwed at all, there are many options to get his money back, I've personally had quite a few instances of this through ebay, and I've never been unable to get my money back. As for this not being through ebay it might be a bit harder, but if he can come up with solid proof, he'll at least get something back.

 

[Lethal]

A day after I saw this was sold he pm'ed me saying the phone was available. I passed because it seemed fishy. Then I see it listed today so I thought the deal really fell through. I had just deleted my messages or I would have proof, anyway from an admin to restore my deleted messages?

No, not really. I mean, there may be a database backup from an earlier point, but don't expect Kyle to call in his hired guns over something like this to try to dig up a PM you deleted.

That's why I never delete my messages, but too bad it's almost fillled now so I will have to delete the ones that aren't important.

Then archive them to your PC. At the bottom of your PM page you have the option to

Download all Private Messages as:
XML | CSV | Text

Don't know about the first two formats, but the plain text option works great and is searchable. Then you can delete all your PMs and start over again.

 

[Arik5405]

As long as you paid with a credit card you should be able to file a charge back. They often require you to submit evidence with your claim, so make sure you send them PM transcripts between you and the seller and also between the seller and others he tried to sell the same item to (assuming others provide you with those PMs). Whatever you find out about the weight of the package make sure you submit that evidence as well.

 

[Kenjiwing]

As long as you paid with a credit card you should be able to file a charge back. They often require you to submit evidence with your claim, so make sure you send them PM transcripts between you and the seller and also between the seller and others he tried to sell the same item to (assuming others provide you with those PMs). Whatever you find out about the weight of the package make sure you submit that evidence as well.

A charge back will just result in a negative balance on his paypal who will turn him into debt collectors and report on his credit.

 

[TheBuzzer]

well i bought a ps3 from him with no problems. He shipped it to me and is still in working order. I don't think he tried to screw you, something weird might have just happened.

 

[DJ Big T]

Ever considered that someone from USPS might have stolen it? This is why I always insure packages that are of high value if I ever ship with USPS. 99% of the time with high value items as a seller to cover my ass I ship UPS and or Fed Ex and keep the receipt and tracking number in case something happens after I ship the item.

 

[Crosshairs]

A charge back will just result in a negative balance on his paypal who will turn him into debt collectors and report on his credit.

A CC charge back if successful will get him his money back from his CC company.....they in turn go after PayPal and try to collect from them ...

 

[night_2004]

A CC charge back if successful will get him his money back from his CC company.....they in turn go after PayPal and try to collect from them ...

Then PayPal turns around and tries to collect it back from you if they can't get it back from the seller. Seen it happen too many times to use PayPal anymore. Good luck getting your cash back and not having to disconnect your PayPal account from your bank account (and making sure the bank knows to refuse all future PayPal charges). Nasty loop that I hope to never have to deal with.

 

[Crosshairs]

Then PayPal turns around and tries to collect it back from you if they can't get it back from the seller. Seen it happen too many times to use PayPal anymore. Good luck getting your cash back and not having to disconnect your PayPal account from your bank account (and making sure the bank knows to refuse all future PayPal charges). Nasty loop that I hope to never have to deal with.

I have done 2 charge backs with PayPal for problem sales on eBay and have had no such experience with my account.

There are also many people in the TTT section that have successfully recovered their money through a CC charge back with no problems.

 

[night_2004]

I have done 2 charge backs with PayPal for problem sales on eBay and have had no such experience with my account.

There are also many people in the TTT section that have successfully recovered their money through a CC charge back with no problems.

I guess I was wrong ... PayPal seems to have changed their policies since the people I know had their problems. Either that or I wasn't getting the whole story. In any event, good luck getting your money back OP.

 

[gwu168]

Sorry, for the lack of updates. I haven't had time to go out and find a scale to weigh the package.

FerraraZ,

When I opened the box it was only like 2/3 filled with tiny square shredded pieces of paper plus a charger (video: http://youtu.be/yu1ZBhTRon0).

If you did ship the iPhone inside the box, how was it packaged inside the box? Did you put the iPhone inside another padded envelop (the shredded paper would do nothing to secure or pad a loose iPhone inside such a large box that could potentially collide with the charger)? Was the box filled with more shredded paper ?

Nothing really stood out to me that the box was tampered with (both side of the box had 2 layers of tape).

I'm going to make an effort to visit the post office today to get a weight.​

To all those that bough something from FerraraZ,

Did you guys send payment to paypal account:

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Did he request the payment be "gifted"?

Did your package lack a return shipping address?

​

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[OC-Chronic]

PayPal works well for claims & anyone who complains about PayPal, IMHO, is a sloppy seller/buyer who didn't take the time to do a proper invoice transaction for 'goods' & keep record of the communications between parties. Make sure you both agree on insured shipping & confirmation & include it in the invoice write-up. I had a seller try to tell me that once it's mailed, he's not responsible for theft or loss. BULLSHIT!! I told him to go sell his junk somewhere else. Another seller tried to tell me no-one does invoices for 'goods' & 'gift' payments were the norm. I said, OK, sell it to someone else then, I don't want it & will never buy any of your junk ever. If you make a deal on [H], follow through promptly & don't be sloppy. When I make a purchase with a PayPal invocie it is instant & the funds are already in the seller's account. No F'in' around. I expect speedy shipping in return with confirmation & insurance if it's a pricey item. I've heard dozens of arrogant sellers who'll take a buyer's money & then take their sweet time getting off their fat asses to mail it out, don't take care to isnure it or put a return address & then get lippy if the seller asks about HIS purchase on the forum, after waiting weeks. You have to do your homework & keep track of your correspondences, emails, etc. & forward them to PayPal for the claims process to work for you. Anything agreed to in email or [H] messages is a binding agreement & should be included in the invoice & will decide the dispute in your favour.

Shady sellers will try anything to get you to 'gift' a payment or make a 'money request' or an invoice for 'services', then complain if their sloppy shipping or shady practices get them in trouble for not being an honourable & transparent seller. At the same time, cheap-A$$ buyers who don't follow the forum rules & 'gift' payments, hoping the guy's heatware isn't bogus get burned & then blame PayPal as if their actions had nothing to do with the scam. If this is how you do business on [H], then you deserve to get burned & hassled for being lazy & sloppy with your items & cash.

Bottom line for this situation: No doubt, this seller is scammin' & selling the same phone to multiple buyers & hoping his mail scam will work with you since the gift payment didn't. Hence the lack of a return address. The problem for him is you have his PayPal email & it's tied to a mailing address & that's the key to the whole thing. He's gonna try to pin it on USPS but if he gets caught, it's mail fraud which is a felony & will possibly get him pinched. My advice is call USPS & give them as much info as possible on this guy if he doesn't refund your money in 24hrs. They take this shit very seriously & I hope this guy wakes the 'F' up, stops this chicken-shit B.S. & refunds your cash. Regardless of what USPS says to him, he owes you that money & it's his responsibility to refund to you FISRT & then try to recover the funds from USPS. Anything else is just another scam & delay tactic. Also, in your claim to PayPal, I strongly suggest to you that you contact them by phone about your claim & explain everything you went through with this guy & suggest his account be yanked. If he's doing gift transactions for the same item with multple buyers you can track them down with PayPal's help...good luck & keep us posted as to how it comes out & thanx for the heads-up....I'll never buy anything form this clown, ever.

 

[zuppy]

Sent you a PM GWU.

 

[gwu168]

Sorry for the huge delay (lost my wallet last week, so its been a huge head ache trying get my out of state license reissued).

The weight of the box was 2lbs and 0.9oz (just weigh it at my local post office). The posted weight was 2lbs and 6.5oz. The delta happens to basically match the weight of an iphone 4s, which is 4.9oz.

I also re-examined the box and noticed that the top part of the box has 3 layers of tape versus just 2 layers at the bottom.

I don't know how we should proceed from here. I'm going to seal this box and all it contents inside another box in case it will be needed for evidence or something else.

FerraraZ,

Unfortunately, in order to protect myself, I'm going to have to ask for a refund or proceed with filing a claim on paypal. I feel bad requesting the refund, since we're both obviously victims of mail theft.

Given all the evidence and your past transactions, I believe that you did ship the iPhone 4s in the original packaging.

In your claim against USPS, I'll provide any witnesses (it was shipped to business location with surveillance and lots of eye witnesses). I suggest you file police report with the IMEI of your iPhone (you can obtain it from apple if you originally purchased it from them). If you need the original box for evidence, I can ship it back inside another box at my own expense.
​

 

[happyboy]

Lovin' the honesty. Shows that you took the extra step to make sure you aren't blaming the wrong person. Anyways, hope you guys get this resolved with both parties happy.

 

[DriZzLe]

I hope you get this resolved.
To the shipper/seller, if you didn't pay for the insurance, shame on you. Insurance is never more than a couple of dollars, five at most, & will protect you, & possibly deter a mail worker from stealing, since it is traceable. If you are too cheap to pay for the insurance protection, you shouldn't be selling. It is the smart & responsible thing to do.

 

[reapergato]

its a [H] MYSTERY! im really glad you didnt shoot first and ask questions later because for a while there it was looking like a lynch mob was forming....... even after another distinquished member vouched for the seller after buying a PS3..... i hope all works out.

 

[Viper87227]

The postage he used is prepaid from online it seem. So he could list whatever weight he wanted, it doesn't have to match the weight of the package just exceed it.

Also your video is with the box already opened so basically it going to come down to his word against your.

Was the label generated in a USPS retail location or on usps.com? If it was usps.com the weight can be set manually at the time of creating the label.

That label is what is generated when you use the APC machine at a post office. The label it prints out only prints the city, state, and zip. The shipper has to write in the street address as well as a return address. More importantly, it confirms that the weight on the label was determined exactly by a USPS scale, and would have been accurate when the label was generated. However, it does also raise the problem that using the APC he could have weighed the box and printed a label, then removed the phone from the box, sealed it up, and thrown it into the mail bin. If he's scamming you, this is a clever way to make it look like mail fraud. Based on the weight mismatch, he can go to paypal and say he shipped what he was supposed to and win the dispute.

If he is legit, then he should be willing to offer you a refund and proceed with a USPS claim on his own. But your evidence does not completely rule him out as innocent, and there are a few other things going on that still seem sketchy on his behalf (no return address, telling people its available after you bought it). Be careful, don't rule him out as a scam until you have your money back.

 

[FerraraZ]

While its tough to state my case in a forum, I really did not try to scam this guy. I'm going to proceed with filing a report against USPS tomorrow and whatever that entails.

I def learned a few things.
1 - Ship with return address
2 - buy the fucking insurance
3 - Dont ship USPS

I tried to cut corners and couple that with not really having dealt with anything other than UPS (they pack and ship for you).

 

[Viper87227]

While its tough to state my case in a forum, I really did not try to scam this guy. I'm going to proceed with filing a report against USPS tomorrow and whatever that entails.

I def learned a few things.
1 - Ship with return address
2 - buy the fucking insurance
3 - Dont ship USPS

I tried to cut corners and couple that with not really having dealt with anything other than UPS (they pack and ship for you).

The fact that you are here and keeping in contact is a good sign. I'm not trying to label you a scammer with what I said above, merely telling the OP to be careful just in case. Until its resolved, you can't be too careful. Hopefully you've refunded his money, which would obviously clear you of any speculation.

From past experience, filing a USPS claim isn't difficult, but it is time consuming. He will more than likely have to file the claim, since he is the one with the package. They will investigate, and possibly call you or him for more information.

The last time I filed a claim was probably 5 years ago or so. It was for a $500 headphone amp that got dinged up a bit. Damage was cosmetic only, so I requested to keep the item and be compensated $150 for the damage (it was a 15 year old amp, so the parts were going to be very difficult to locate). I got one phone call a few weeks into the process from someone trying to validate the value I put on the damage. About 6 weeks after starting the whole process, I got a check for $150 in the mail without any other warning.

That was all with insurance though, the post office may very well tell you that you are shit out of luck without it. Good luck with working it out.

 

[JLangevin]

While its tough to state my case in a forum, I really did not try to scam this guy. I'm going to proceed with filing a report against USPS tomorrow and whatever that entails.

I def learned a few things.
1 - Ship with return address
2 - buy the fucking insurance
3 - Dont ship USPS

I tried to cut corners and couple that with not really having dealt with anything other than UPS (they pack and ship for you).

FedEx and UPS arent sure bets either. I was a FedEx driver for 4 years and cant count how many claims were placed on me for packages that were claimed to be "not delivered" or "damaged" etc, not to mention the amount of actual theft that took place in the terminals during sort, loading etc. FedEx spent millions per year on Loss Prevention both in the field, and in the warehouses/terminals.

There was even an internally published article to all drivers about a loss prevention story that caught one particular driver who would simply identify potentially valuable items based on the sender lable and would open up the packages, take what he wanted and retape them up.

When a package is opened by the terminal to inspect for possible damages, the QA cage would then retape up the package with a special tape, as well as place a document inside stating to the receiving party that the box was opened and inspected.

Working for FedEx has also allowed me to incorporate some good methods of protecting myself from shady buyers and shipping agencies... (between 3 forums, I have roughly 300+ feedback, with 0 neutral and 0 negative).

What you need to do is place the shipping label right over the seam in the box lid... this means that no one can open the top of the package without cutting the label... if this is the case, there is proof that the box was tampered with PRIOR to receiving. I let the buyer know that if they receive the box with the label cut, that the box has been tampered with.

As for the bottom of the box, simply place a sheet of paper foled on half over the seam, write Tamper Seal on it, and tape all the way over it... this means that niether end of the box can be opened without a seal being broken.

Sure, this isnt fool proof, but this isnt designed to protect the shipper or the buyer, but to deter any driver/delivery/sorter from cutting open the box as it means that they have to cut the label, and any experienced package handler will move on to another package to steal.

 

[Voiceofid]

Might want to pull the tape from the place your sent the package, since you mentioned it was a "they pack and ship it for you"

they probably did the packing and got greedy

 

[gwu168]

I submitted a dispute refund request via paypal, but FerraraZ has yet to respond. I'm probably going to be forced escalate this dispute to a paypal claim tomorrow (last day is the 17th).

This whole situation is just really shitty feeling.

 

[Viper87227]

I submitted a dispute refund request via paypal, but FerraraZ has yet to respond. I'm probably going to be forced escalate this dispute to a paypal claim tomorrow (last day is the 17th).

This whole situation is just really shitty feeling.

Make sure you do. I wen't round-and-round with someone trying to scam me a good while ago. He kept in contact with me almost daily trying to sort out a lost package, being very nice and apologetic. But his shit didn't add up and I wasn't taking chances, and I disputed with paypal. Even then he was nice and tried very hard to "fix" things... he was really just running out the dispute window, and I'm glad I didn't fall for it.

Hopefully FerraraZ is a good guy stuck in a shitty situation, but don't let your guard down, just in case.

 

[CapnCrunch10]

I submitted a dispute refund request via paypal, but FerraraZ has yet to respond. I'm probably going to be forced escalate this dispute to a paypal claim tomorrow (last day is the 17th).

This whole situation is just really shitty feeling.

Definitely escalate. You need to protect yourself as much as possible.

As far as this thread goes, there is still a bunch of pertinent information that needs to be answered from the seller. I hope that he has at least tried to contact you privately to explain:

- Asking for a gift payment
- Attempting to sell to others after the item was sold.
- How he packed it and what's up with the charger being in the box.

Having such a good history makes the situation odd. Hope you get your money back and if the seller is telling the truth, that he gets compensated.

 

[gwu168]

I have been refunded by ferraza. Still, it really sinks the whole thing feels unresolved (possible mail theft). Unfortunately, I don't think Ferrara purchased insurance so filing a claim is going to be long shot.

 

[Unabomber]

Glad to hear that he came through. Chalk it up as a learning experience to everyone involved.

The box didn't look tampered when I received it.

Anyways, the lack of return address is really suspicious.

Interesting... Just about every post office location won't let you ship it out without putting a return address on it.

I tried sending out a small package containing a couple of picture CD's, and the lady at the counter said I couldn't do it without a return address. I asked her why not, and she said "For all I know, you could be the Unabomber!"

 

[Viper87227]

I have been refunded by ferraza. Still, it really sinks the whole thing feels unresolved (possible mail theft). Unfortunately, I don't think Ferrara purchased insurance so filing a claim is going to be long shot.

Glad to hear you got your money back!

Interesting... Just about every post office location won't let you ship it out without putting a return address on it.

The label was printed from of the APC kiosks. That means it's up to him to write in a return address, and then the package goes into a receptacle. At no point does a post office employee inspect the package prior to being accepted for shipping.

 

[MightyMatt]

I found this thread to be a very useful and an informative read, for someone who casually buys on these forums, and occasionally sells. It seems like you would only learn these things by reading them, but more likely and unfortunately, experiencing them. Thanks to everyone who put time in this thread.

 

[MavericK]

Crazy-ass necro, though...

 

[KILLER_K]

Indeed lock this old 2012 thread.

 

[deathhorse]

 

[MightyMatt]

Haha, it was the best information I could find on why to not use PayPal gift

 

[ymer]

what's going on in this thread guise

 

[KILLER_K]

It explains it pretty good in the rules they have listed here also.

(23) Charging fees for PayPal is not allowed, nor is requesting a "gift" payment for goods (which gives the buyer no protection). Both violate PayPal's TOS.

Haha, it was the best information I could find on why to not use PayPal gift

Raising dead with magical thread post. Also what the heck is a "guise"?

what's going on in this thread guise