Well the LG I had before had very vivid colours and yes I do like IPS over VA any day. But like I said the Philips isn't bad at all, definatly good enough until a nice 40" IPS monitor comes out.
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Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread
- Thread starter AgentQ
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Well the LG I had before had very vivid colours and yes I do like IPS over VA any day. But like I said the Philips isn't bad at all, definatly good enough until a nice 40" IPS monitor comes out.
Can you share with us with your settings? BTW, VA blacks with wide-gamut IPS colors could be perfect match - with this size IPS backlight bleeding can be awful. And this is why I'm interested in new Samsung panels but I'm little afraid of this unfamous PWA.
Lateralus
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I can't imagine the IPS glow on a 40" monitor. It was bad enough on the 30" Dell and very noticeable on the 34" LG/Dell ultrawides.
I'm with you on the nice vivid IPS colors, but I sure don't miss the glow or the grainy anti-glare coatings that many of them seem to come with.
I'm with you on the nice vivid IPS colors, but I sure don't miss the glow or the grainy anti-glare coatings that many of them seem to come with.
SlippinJimmy
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SlippinJimmy
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What about the 42" ips Wasabi Mango for $800?
What is this monitor, I have never heard of it. Is it 4K and for $800 it can't be that good.
My LG i had before cost $1900 AUD just 6 months ago.
cageymaru
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Seems to be a LG panel inside.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WASABI-MANG...286?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c522e641e
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Wow that's awsome, I never knew this kind of monitor existed. Where can I get reviews and some information or comparisons of it to other 4K monitors?
And why is it so cheap if it uses a LG AH-IPS panel, I thought those types of panels are expensive high quality ones.
And why is it so cheap if it uses a LG AH-IPS panel, I thought those types of panels are expensive high quality ones.
Yes.
General Lee
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I finally got my replacement panel from Philips. Never underestimate the time it takes to do RMA through the retailer, took over a month for me. Makes me appreciate Dell's RMA practices where you get a replacement in days and the delivery guy just picks up the old one. I guess Philips might have a similar thing for TV's but for some reason they insisted on RMA through the retailer with this monitor.
Luckily the replacement seems to be a good panel, no dead pixels or anything else bothering. There's the same sort of minor glow/contrast shift in the lower right corner when looking head-on as the previous unit had, but it's nothing major since it's only slightly visible on a black screen in the dark.
On a side note, they've made some minor changes in the packaging, and the plastic strip that used to be installed behind the front Philips logo has been fixed. Here's the panel details Smart Control gives if anyone's interested
Luckily the replacement seems to be a good panel, no dead pixels or anything else bothering. There's the same sort of minor glow/contrast shift in the lower right corner when looking head-on as the previous unit had, but it's nothing major since it's only slightly visible on a black screen in the dark.
On a side note, they've made some minor changes in the packaging, and the plastic strip that used to be installed behind the front Philips logo has been fixed. Here's the panel details Smart Control gives if anyone's interested
Maybe Dell is better now, but I had a terrible experience with them back in the day. RMA'd my 3007WFP-HC and for some reason they couldn't locate a replacement. Every week they would update me saying the same thing. After going back and forth with them for around 4 weeks, they decided to ship me a 3008WFP instead. This was from the business department too. At least I got a newer monitor out of it in the end, but I've avoided Dell since...
General Lee
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Was the model still being sold back when you did the RMA? Not sure why Dell would feel the need to wait around if they weren't going to have any panels coming. I suppose the quality of service can vary a lot depending on where you live.
One more thing I noticed about the new panel is that the noticeably darker corners the older unit had on a white screen are almost entirely gone and the look is much more uniform. So far I'm really happy with the new unit.
Was the model still being sold back when you did the RMA? Not sure why Dell would feel the need to wait around if they weren't going to have any panels coming. I suppose the quality of service can vary a lot depending on where you live.
One more thing I noticed about the new panel is that the noticeably darker corners the older unit had on a white screen are almost entirely gone and the look is much more uniform. So far I'm really happy with the new unit.
I'm in the US. I think it was in the process of being phased out but yes. I even saw refurb models going up on the Dell outlet at the time which I told them I would've been fine with, but despite that, they kept making me wait. And it wasn't until after I complained several times that they decided to upgrade me to the 3008WFP.
I stick to buying monitors from Amazon nowadays, much quicker return process than dealing with the manufacture.
The problems with RMA were likely related to a general lack of panels, usually in Europe if you get something that is broken and want a replacement product they need to fix it much sooner (assuming it's within the first 14 days), and companies like amazon will even send you a good unit before you send the broken one back.
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Unfortunatly the Samsung's input lag is very high with 4:4:4 chroma.
The Philips has a 240 Hz frequency which will bother you much less likely than the 120 Hz of Samsung's 6 series.
Yes, the Philips seems to be the better overall deal. Chroma 4:4:4 with low input lag, static contrast almost twice as high and blacks almost twice as dark (according to the measurements of the test sites), PWM frequency is twice as high than the 6 series...
In my eyes IPS looks bad because of the low static contrast and the poor blacks. It makes movies look dull on the screen. It has annoying sparkling artefacts in white areas, which makes longer reading or working with text a pain compared to a VA panel. Then there is the IPS glow... na, I will never go back to IPS (I had the Dell 2209WA a long time ago).
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Lateralus
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Not if you don't update the firmware.
And if you do update the firmware, they've actually reduced the input lag in Game mode which although not 4:4:4 chroma, looks 98% identical and is very acceptable for desktop use and unnoticeable in games.
I have the latest firmware and I find input lag very acceptable in PC mode even though it has increased since the stock firmware.
But don't take my word for it...there are dozens of people who are thrilled with the Samsungs, some of whom had the Philips previously.
It's clear that you prefer the Philips, but try and be a little more objective. You've shown that you are extremely proficient at listing the pros of the Philips while ignoring the pros of the Samsung.
It is still a very high input lag. You just ignore it, because you want to justify your purchase.
Some people want to get a good monitor and not an acceptable one. And doing text work or reading on a display with only 4:2:2 chroma is not even acceptable. Its rubbish.
Wasn't the input lag with stock firmware 48ms in PC mode? 48ms. Fortyeight milliseconds! Measured by rtings - not felt. And now you are saying it is even higher? And you think that this is still an acceptable input lag for a PC monitor? Wow... just wow...
Yes, and I have never seen a bigger case of confirmation bias than in this Samsung thread. Every valid critisism gets surpressed, problems get downplayed, facts ignored. And the same time the Samsung owners threadcrap into the Philips thread - only to justify their purchase. Ridiculous.
My assesment is based on test sites. Not on some overly exited and thrilled buyers. Thats why I currently prefer the Philips. BTW, I do not own the Philips. Not yet.
Today I saw a special offer in the paper for the Samsung 40" 6900 for 399 Euro - 270 Euros less than the Philips. I really considered jumping to the Samsung - but after an hour of research... no way. A lot of people tried it as a 4k monitor and where completely dissappointed.
I would have loved to save 270 Euro - I could have (almost) gotten a GTX 970 for the saved money. But apparently the Samsung sucks, so I will skip the offer and continue waiting for the Philips.
You've shown that you are extremely proficient at listing the pros of the Philips while ignoring the pros of the Samsung.
So you are basicly telling me I should ignore the pros for the Philips. I should only talk about the pros for the Samsung (which I really do not see) and I should only talk about the cons of the Philips. But then I would be you and that makes no sense to me.
Lateralus
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It's not about justifying anything. I tend to buy things that are the biggest bang for the buck. Why on earth would I keep the $1600 48JU7500 over a cheaper monitor if I wasn't extremely impressed with it? I wouldn't.
It's not that I ignore it, it's that it doesn't bother me. My games haven't suffered for it (I'm not a twitch gamer, though). And there's always Game mode which reduces the lag, but I've been playing in PC mode.
TARDIS said:
I'm sorry, that's bull. You haven't even seen what text looks like on the Samsung after the firmware improvements. Text in Game mode looks just like text in PC mode, except for red text which is fuzzier. I don't visit websites or use programs with a lot of red text, so it's not bothersome. And I can always use PC mode if it's an issue.
I would have agreed with you prior to firmware 1207...text did look pretty bad in Game mode. Even then, switching to PC mode made text look flawless with 4:4:4. Now it's perfect in PC mode and very close in Game mode.
TARDIS said:
I don't know, I stopped keeping up with the numbers long ago. I don't go by numbers, I go by how it feels, and it feels fine to me. Game mode feels even better.
TARDIS said:
It's not about threadcrapping, it's about giving people another option. I was all about the Philips until people started reporting issues with it (dropping to 30hz intermittently, burn in, and those dreadful ghost lines that extend past window borders). I'm not trying to talk anyone else out of buying the Philips, and it sounds like the newer batches might have addressed some of the initial problems. That's great! But it's far from the only option availble.
TARDIS said:
The Samsung sucks? Yeah, that's why there are tons of satisfied owners using it. Very few people are disappointed with it as a 4K monitor; quite the opposite, rather.
TARDIS said:
Nope, I'm not saying to ignore the pros for the Philips, or to only talk about its cons (though that is exactly what you're doing with the Samsung). I'm saying that your list of pros and cons in the Samsung thread was ridiculously biased and that you ignored several cons for the Philips while conveniently leaving out several pros for the Samsung.
And as I said in that thread, it's your money. I don't care what you buy, but you're really not giving the Samsung a fair chance.
I have owned the Philips for a few months now, and I have never had any of those problems, not even once.
I'd echo this. I've owned the monitor since February and not had any ghosting. IMO, it's perfect for gaming both fast & slow. Assuming you have a 970+ graphics card or thereabouts.
In the 3 months I've owned it, twice I've seen the display drop down to 30Hz, but being half the refresh rate it's instantly noticeable, and instantly fixable (display settings -> monitor -> 60Hz). I'm not sure if it's the display driver or a monitor/windows issue but either way it's an easy fix.
I LOVE this monitor. I've purchased a lot of PC kit in my time, and this monitor is high-end stuff - it's lovely to look at, pleasant colours, great performance - an ideal accompaniment to a high-end rig.
Lateralus
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That's great. I'm glad that you guys are happy with it, really. I would likely have one too, but Philips dropped the ball by taking waaayyy too long to release it here in the US and I was uneasy about importing one. So I ended up with the Sammy after it was confirmed to support 4:4:4 and I've been nothing less than amazed by it every time I use it. Plus it can serve double duty as a 4K TV if another monitor comes out that I want in a few years.
At least you guys can discuss the thing without ridiculous bias and disdain for other products. Thanks for the contribution to the discussion! I'm very happy to know that those issues may be resolved or may have been blown out of proportion.
At least you guys can discuss the thing without ridiculous bias and disdain for other products. Thanks for the contribution to the discussion! I'm very happy to know that those issues may be resolved or may have been blown out of proportion.
Which sammy are you using that supports full 4.4.4 chroma, also how is the input lag?
Beast Mode
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My order placed March 18th from Amazon US finally shipped. The two month waiting period has been a deeply meditative process.
Could be from the cable, I have had the monitor for 3 months too and that never happened to me.
I've still got the problem after replacing my cable. It is a real pain to have to keep on reseting the monitor to get it to run at 60hz. Has anyone got any suggestions?
Lateralus
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I started with the 40" JU6700, then tried the 48" version of the same model, and have now settled on the 48" JU7500. All support 4:4:4 chroma. The 7500 supports it on all inputs while the 6700 only supports it on input 1 (not a big deal). Input lag is very good compared to a lot of TVs but it has varied with each firmware update so I can't provide exact numbers. Basically as long as you're not expecting lag of something like the ROG Swift, you probably won't be disappointed.
Here is a chart that I made comparing the various models:
There are other sizes available, but the 40" and 48" have been by far the most common and practical for PC use.
The 7xxx series has slightly lower input lag and a few features that make it better as a TV, but as a PC monitor I enjoyed both the 6xxx and 7xxx series. Supposedly the 7xxx has faster response time (i.e. less ghosting) but I didn't notice a big difference between them. For the price I think the 6xxx series is the best value.
BlindZenDriver
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I wonder if perhaps you're seeing a graphics card issue and not a monitor one.
From reading around on the net I have seen people having all sorts of issues with DisplayPort connections, all from not working unless there is also a DVI monitor connected to the reverting to 30 Hz you are seeing.
I think it is likely a lot of graphics hardware may list specs that say 4K with DP is fine, but in reality a good deal of that hardware may never actually have been tested like that. I have no real data to back this up, but it does seem like the brand with the green logo is seeing more issues - however it could also just be that more of their customers are getting into 4K.
Maybe there is a upgraded firmware for your graphics card you can try.
Yepp, the Samsung 4k 40" 6900 sucks as a PC display. And I know there are a ton of super happy uberexcited owners. But ist still sucks as a PC display, what you clearly see when you look at the reviews from the not so happy users. No 4:4.4 chroma, display turning itself off unless you attach a second display, massiv ghosting, high input lag... it might still be a great TV but as a display it is rubbish. Actually, according to the reviews the 6900 even sucks as a TV.
Here is my original post again - so what did I miss?
Sorry, imyourzero, you are trying to bullshit the people. You are the one who is massively biased. Not me.
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Only when you are in game mode with 4:2:2 chroma you get a decent input lag. So if chroma 4:2.2 is good enough for you, you will be fine with the Samsung.
In PC mode with chroma 4:4:4 the input lag is about 48ms (measured by rtings test site). Which is pretty bad. But there have been several firmware updates performing miracles and now the input lag is lower. Even though no independent test site has measured this, but its what the excited owners tell you.
FYI, this is the input lag classification of TFT Central:
The Samsung would be class 3 and the Philips class 2. Unless you are ok with compressed low quality colors of chroma 4:2:2, then the Samsung is class 2, too.
Of course if you are o.k. with "Some noticeable lag in daily usage, not suitable for high end gaming " you will be fine with the Samsung in chroma 4:4:4, too.
Samsung 6500:
Samsung 6700:
Samsung 7100:
The numbers are from the rtings test site. Game mode = 4:2:2 chroma, PC mode = 4:4:4 chroma.
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SlippinJimmy
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I've considered the Philips for the lower input lag at 4:4:4, but it's smaller than I'd like, and from my understanding it lacks hdcp 2.2. I'm not sure how the upscaler compares to the Samsung.
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Samsung 6900 is a 2014 model, which indeed sucked big time, that's why only a few guinea pigs bought it last year and then things cooled down until this year.. 2015 models are a totally different ball game.
As for the input lag... In the Samsung thread practically nobody is having issues with it, even though there are some self proclaimed lag sensitive users. So even if all other things are about equal between Sammy and Philips, I'll take the curve.
Lateralus
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Huh? No one is talking about the 6900 except for you. I don't care if it sucks; it's not what's being discussed here. I understand now how you came up with your username. Is the 6900 the European equivalent to one that's available here in the States or something? I doubt it, because none of those flaws that you list apply to the 6500/6700/7100/7500 so I'm not sure why it's relevant. If those things are true, then it does indeed sound like it sucks as a PC monitor...we can agree there. But this is the first time I've heard of the 6900.
TARDIS said:
TARDIS said:
Whatever, man. I'm not trying to bullshit anyone and I'm not biased against the Philips if the flaws have been addressed. Sounds like it would be a great monitor without the issues I described earlier (that were reported in this very thread).
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Lateralus
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The changes in the input lag through firmware updates has been tested by a member with a Leo Bodnar and lines up with expectations; it's not like we are just making up whatever numbers we want.
TARDIS said:
This may be the closest thing to a non-biased, non-inflammatory thing that I've seen you post. Good job and please keep it up.
Except again, I'd love for you to compare the improved 4:2:2 with full 4:4:4 on the Samsung. The "compressed low quality colors" thing is absolute BS. Let me refer you to these pictures which one member took to compare.
PC mode (4:4:4) is first, game mode (4:2:2) is second.
In game mode below, the lines of the plane, such as the wings, appear smoother... it seems the reduced chroma in games actually acts as a form of anti-aliasing. It's very subtle, yet functional.
Can't distinguish 4:2:2 from 4:4:4 in games, but whatever floats your boat. I'll stick with my 48" curved IMAX-like gaming experience with a bit higher lag. Neither of us is right or wrong.
It comes down to what's important and what sacrifices you're willing to make as no display is perfect.+1. Thank you for being the voice of reason.
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Is there any way to restrict a full-screen 1080p video, so that it doesn't capture the whole screen?
I'm thinking specifically of the fullscreen option on YouTube. I'd like it to take a quarter of my 4k screen while I have other windows open. It would be less than ideal of pressing the full screen button took up the entire 4k screen.
I'm thinking specifically of the fullscreen option on YouTube. I'd like it to take a quarter of my 4k screen while I have other windows open. It would be less than ideal of pressing the full screen button took up the entire 4k screen.
True. I only said that I thought about buying it, because it was on sale for 399 Euro. Is it forbidden to write this in the forum. Do my posts have to pass your censorship?
The 6900 came up only two days ago. Everything else I said is of course about the 2015 6series and parts of it about the 2015 7series as well.
Even though the comments I read on the AVS forum about the 6500 seem to be very similair to the comments about the 6900. I remember words like "pretty underwhelmed", "motion is pretty terrible", and "Shame of samsung to try to rip people off so bad.".
The 6series seems to be very low end. Well, you know it yourself. How many days have you had it, until it wasen't good enough and you spend a lot more money for the 7series? (This was a rethorical question, I do not really want an answer.)
Thanks for giving me a good idea about your education level - or lack thereoff.
And your comments to my pro and con list for the Philips just show the same...
I say "+ Much higher static contrast" and you say "Meh, any good VA panel is going to have great contrast." - I am talking about measurements! You just give your biased fanboy "good enough" BS.
I say "+ Much darker black" and you say "Not when you set the black level on the Samsung to Low." - What means low? AFAIK, when the black level on the Samsung was measured, they even had some dynamic light BS turned on, which was conveniently turned off, when they measured input lag. And even then the black level of the Samsung is much worse than the Philips. Measured, by independent test sites. Again, you are simply stating your biased fanboy BS.
I say "+ PWM-frequency is twice as high than the 6series" and you say "OK, for the few people who are affected by PWM this is indeed a plus, but 240hz is still considered very low so they'd likely be affected by the Philips too". - It is a huge difference between 120 Hz and 240 Hz! You are trying to downplay the flaws of the Samsung like crazy. Again! Why is even Samsung offering 240 Hz in their more expensive models if it doesn't matter?
I say: "+ 4:4:4 chroma with a much lower input lag" and you say "Not everyone is sensitive to lag or looking for the response of a ROG Swift" - so you never heard of gamers out there? But again, you have to downplay problems of the Samsung. As usual.
I say "+ DP 1.2a instead of HDMI 2.0" and you say " How is this a pro, other than for people who don't have HDMI 2.0 outputs on their video cards?" - sorry do you use your brain at all before you write something? You are basicly telling me DP1.2 it is not a pro because.... I don't know.... because everybody is having HDMI 2.0 on their graphics card? Is that really it? Excuse me, am I talking to an eight year old child? Really?
I say "+ No increasing input lag when you switch modes" and you say "This has been confirmed to be BS that was spread by ONE person." O.k. if this is not a problem with the Samsung, then good. I know it happens that single people spread BS - like the image burn in or washed out colors on the Philips.
I say "+ No fiddeling with firmwares" and you say "Fiddling with = taking a couple of minutes to update? I read this as "No improvements through firmware unlike Samsung who has pushed out several updates to make the unit better"" - if it is just a couple minutes work, why are there so many post about firmware updates in the Samsung thread? Why are the people worried that they cannot downgrade to an older firmware and sometimes even hold back from a firmware upgrade? And how can a firmware update make the display even better when it is already the best display ever, ever, ever (in your eyes)? Things do not really add up in your argumentation.
I say "+ It is meant as a PC display and works out of the box like a PC display" and you "LOL. The Samsung works out of the box as as PC display once you set like 2 menu options to enable 4:4:4 and change the input type." So you have to change your settings, disable all the TV processing features oder live with an input lag above 100ms (which is friom your eyes probably perfect, too).
I say "+ No waiting for things getting fixed in the future" and you say "Once again, lack of firmware updates means that any issues will never get fixed unless newer production runs are better, and even if you can go through the hassle of an exchange, you're stuck with whatever you have after the exchange period." - so you are telling me, even though there is nothing that has to be fixed, like compressed colors through TV chroma or a bad input lag - Philips should deliver dummy firmware updates. Dummy firmware updates which update nothing, because there is nothing that should be updated? Interessting.
I would never buy something that only promises me, that one day in the future it might do, what I bought it for. It either does it, when I buy it, or I don't buy it. There is even a chance that I do not keep the Philips (if it ever makes it to me at all... tap.. tap.. tap). Because of this weird vertical line artefact. This could be a deal breaker for me. But then, some say its not a problem or happens only with unusual settings. I will see and decide. But I will not wait for updates.
You say "- Some users having issues with it backing down to 30 hz" - valid point. With long cable length you need a high quality DP cable. If you buy a LINDY cable there are suppost to be no dropouts at all.
You say "- Some reports of image retention" I think we can savely call this BS, because neither the photos showed image retention nor were there more reports than - I don't know - one?
You say "- Some reports of dull or washed out colors" was that the guy, the one guy, talking about his ubersaturated LG colors? Of course the colors look washed out compared to unnatural saturated colors. In a PC display you usually go for natural colors. "Washed out colors" is the typical comment you get from someone you put in front of a calibrated display for the first time. Thats how they sell cheap el-crappo displays: turn up the saturation and make colors look better than in life.
I will not comment on your Samsung list, because I do not care. Even though I would love to speak about local dimming in an edge lit display...
I will try to ignore you in the future. There are weird people on the internet and I do not want to waste my time with them. So I do not want to waste my time with you. So write whatever you want, I (most likely) don't care.
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