Philips BDM4065UC - 40" 4K 60Hz monitor thread

shadow85 said:
I really don't think so. The LG has a true 10 bit AH-IPS panel with a wide color gamut, the Philips is a 8 bit panel with a standard gamut.

But I am going to play around with the settings a bit more on the Philips. Only problem is I don't have a calibrator nor have I ever used one.
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I think it's unrealistic to expect a VA panel to match a good IPS panel on color, never mind a high-end one like the 31UM97. VA can outperform IPS on black level, but probably not color accuracy and definitely not gamut in this particular case (though unless you've got all of the other elements for a 10-bit workflow in place, gamut doesn't really matter). The price of the Philips compared to your LG despite the fact that the Philips is significantly larger should have been a signal that something would have to give here, even taking into account the savings Philips enjoys from repurposing a TV panel.
 
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Once calibrated the Philips will be close enough for color accuracy. It's not a professional monitor for graphic design or editing. It's going to look MUCH better than any TN monitor out there in every category, and it will look much better than an IPS in terms of contrast and black levels. IPS may have better colors, but how much better do you need?

That being said, go read the TFT review on the Philips, they even say how bad it is out of the box. Most monitors and TV's look pretty shitty out of the box, before you calibrate it. Even just eye calibration is better than out of the box. I had Asus 144hz 24" before and they looked like crap out of the box. Once I changed the settings they looked decent.
 
croc_ said:
IPS may have better colors, but how much better do you need?
.
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Well I don't know how much I need. It's just that when I fired up some games they looked alot more realistic and vivid on the LG then when I fired them up on the Philips. Hopefully I can fix that so I can keep the Philips.


Can I calibrate my Philips without a calibrator? Or should I go buy one, if so which one should I buy?
 
shadow85 said:
Can I calibrate my Philips without a calibrator? Or should I go buy one, if so which one should I buy?
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Somewhere in the thread someone posted some user settings you can use that will dramatically improved the picture. I think they were from TFT or overclockers uk.

I plan to get a Spyder4Pro when I get my 4065UC in March.
 
shadow85 said:
I I have already tried it but I didnt see much difference. Not sure if I am using it rite?

I just went into windows color profiles and selected that file.
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Pretty sure you want to do these settings through the OSD on the monitor itself.
 
croc_ said:
Pretty sure you want to do these settings through the OSD on the monitor itself.
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Oh rite I will have to try it when I get home from work. I really love thie size of this beast I may actually keep it over my LG even though the color is not as good.

EDIT: so will entering it in the OSD make the color better, do I really need a calibrator because I checked local stores here in AU the spyder4pro is $250AU.
 
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jphughan said:
As mentioned above, you probably need a different DP cable. Others have been unable to run 4K @ 60 Hz due to old/crappy cables and fixed it by getting a new, proper cable certified for DP 1.2 / HBR2. Surprisingly, most of the DP cables sold at Monoprice still only support 1.1, but they do have one DP to DP cable and one DP to MiniDP cable that supports 1.2.
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Thanks!

I can try a different cable (getting one right now) but if it is a cable issue wouldn't the 60Hz option be visible, just not work?
 
shadow85 said:
Oh rite I will have to try it when I get home from work. I really love thie size of this beast I may actually keep it over my LG even though the color is not as good.

EDIT: so will entering it in the OSD make the color better, do I really need a calibrator because I checked local stores here in AU the spyder4pro is $250AU.
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yes it will definitely make the colors better, either of those 2 profiles in the tft review requires you to lower the blue levels, and brightness by a very significant amount.
Unless you are doing color critical work you don't need the calibrator, either way you can try the factory calibrated mode (select sRGB in the color section of the OSD menu), it unfortunately comes with the crazy 100% brightness which can't be changed in that mode, but it will give you some ideas of what to expect from a calibrated screen of this type, but the other profiles from tft will work well too as long as you change the settings in the osd to match it.

BTW having had more time with the monitor you might want to check how far away the monitor is from you, and how centered it is, because in this monitor things do look more washed out when you are viewing it at an angle (which can happen if you have the monitor too close), this ofc doesn't happen with the IPS panel, since IPS field of view is pretty much unbeatable.
 
Colours look more vivid on a wide colour gamut monitor than a standard colour gamut monitor. It's quite simple. ;)
 
Firepc said:
Colours look more vivid on a wide colour gamut monitor than a standard colour gamut monitor. It's quite simple. ;)
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Probably because they're being displayed wrong. If you tell an sRGB to display red 100%, it does, if you tell a wide gamut monitor to do that, it's oversaturated (or "more vivid"), unless everything else is set up correctly :)
 
martona said:
Hey guys,

So I got one of these monitors (Ebay from China). It's pretty cool, but I can't get it to do anything over 30Hz. (Yes, I know, DP 1.2 has to be turned on, the default is 1.1 - I have done that.)

I'm trying this with a GTX 980. I had no problems running a Samsung 40" TV at 4K / 60Hz via HDMI on that card - well, the only issue there was nasty YUV 4:2:0 downsampling, which made me want to get a proper monitor with a DP connector.

Has anyone ran into something like this? Neither Windows nor the Nvidia control panel lets me select anything over 30Hz at the display's native resolution. I looked at the EDID info with CRU, and it seems to have a correct 3840x2160 60Hz mode in it. I have tried replicating that mode in Nvidia's custom resolution utility but that just causes the computer to crash when I press Test.

The monitor is hooked up directly to one of the card's DP outputs with a single cable. I tried a clean driver reinstall, and rebooted more than in the past 5 years put together.

Any thoughts? I tried Nvidia support but they're just blaming Philips.
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Sounds like they shipped you the TV version of the 40in Phillips model and modded it to look like the monitor? Try and make sure it is actually the monitor version.
 
Micael said:
Unless you are doing color critical work you don't need the calibrator, either way you can try the factory calibrated mode (select sRGB in the color section of the OSD menu), it unfortunately comes with the crazy 100% brightness which can't be changed in that mode, but it will give you some ideas of what to expect from a calibrated screen of this type, but the other profiles from tft will work well too as long as you change the settings in the osd to match it.
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Im not doing color critical work, but I would like the monitor to be more vivid.

Micael said:
check how far away the monitor is from you, and how centered it is, because in this monitor things do look more washed out when you are viewing it at an angle (which can happen if you have the monitor too close), this ofc doesn't happen with the IPS panel, since IPS field of view is pretty much unbeatable.
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I am pretty close at the moment but I will try to sit about 1 metre away from it.

How far do most users here sit from this monitor?

EDIT: Oh and btw, am I suppose to use an ICC profile inspector to see what settings to put into the OSD? Never done this before.
 
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Assuming you have set up the ICC profile as being told here http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/icc_profiles.htm#install and that you downloaded the profiles that are here http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/icc_profiles/philips_bdm4065uc_collection.zip for the user defined profile you will need to do the following thing on the monitor (not on windows, on the actual monitor) put smart uniformity off (you need to select off where it has the mode smart uniformity, gaming, movies and so on), then you need to set brightness at 34, change the color temperature (I believe it's on the tab called color), to the last option which is user defined (Can't remember the name), and then set red to 100, green to 99, and blue to 84.

If you instead of the user defined profile are using the the smartuniformity profile, you need to activate smart uniformity (you select it in the menu where you selected off), then you need to set brightness to 58, red to 100, green to 99 and blue to 78.

After doing all this, if the srgb mode doesn't look good, if none of the other 2 modes look good, and if siting further back (even if it's just for testing) doesn't look good to you, either the LG is ridiculously superior at reproducing colors (extremely unlikely, since the philips is not some crappy panel), or the most likely scenario is that the mode you are using in the LG isn't calibrated, which often does make the colors look more vivid, especially when the red is cranked up more than it should, if this is the case (and it very likely is), you can change the settings on your philips to try and make it look the same.

To clarify the idea of using the profiles or the srgb default profile that comes with the monitor, is to make the monitor produce an image that is closer to real life, which is useful for when people are doing work that requires what you see on the screen to be what gets printed, which isn't the case for most people, so this profiles are pretty unrelated with making the monitor look better, since there is quite a lot of people that prefer colors which are inaccurate, and that's completely fine, but if that's the goal is to make the monitor look better to you, then your best bet in that case is to just tweak the settings until you get where you want it.
 
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the review mentioned a service menu, but do not elaborated further.
does such service menu allows settings individual collor channels offsets and gains?
If so, i strongly recommend a hardware color calibrator, as such fine tuning would allow for near perfect color accuracy and RGB coverage.
On my Seiki 39" i managed to rotate the "color triangle" from 96% RGB coverage to 99% RGB coverage using just the service menu and a low cost Spyder4 Express.
 
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martona said:
Hey guys,

So I got one of these monitors (Ebay from China). It's pretty cool, but I can't get it to do anything over 30Hz. (Yes, I know, DP 1.2 has to be turned on, the default is 1.1 - I have done that.)

I'm trying this with a GTX 980. I had no problems running a Samsung 40" TV at 4K / 60Hz via HDMI on that card - well, the only issue there was nasty YUV 4:2:0 downsampling, which made me want to get a proper monitor with a DP connector.

Has anyone ran into something like this? Neither Windows nor the Nvidia control panel lets me select anything over 30Hz at the display's native resolution. I looked at the EDID info with CRU, and it seems to have a correct 3840x2160 60Hz mode in it. I have tried replicating that mode in Nvidia's custom resolution utility but that just causes the computer to crash when I press Test.

The monitor is hooked up directly to one of the card's DP outputs with a single cable. I tried a clean driver reinstall, and rebooted more than in the past 5 years put together.

Any thoughts? I tried Nvidia support but they're just blaming Philips.
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I had the same problem with my gtx 980, have you tried power cycling the monitor, it will eventually show up 60hz in the windows settings.
 
Micael said:
After doing all this, if the srgb mode doesn't look good, if none of the other 2 modes look good, and if siting further back (even if it's just for testing) doesn't look good to you, either the LG is ridiculously superior at reproducing colors (extremely unlikely, since the philips is not some crappy panel), or the most likely scenario is that the mode you are using in the LG isn't calibrated, which often does make the colors look more vivid, especially when the red is cranked up more than it should, if this is the case (and it very likely is), you can change the settings on your philips to try and make it look the same.
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Ok I tried this but I did not like how dark the monitor looked although the blacks were very deep. And I realised my LG was using a custom mode which made colors more saturated/vivid, so I switched the LG to sRGB and also the philips to sRGB, and now they looked more similar to each other. I don't mind the sRGB mode on the phillips, but was wondering if I can make colors more saturated/vivid even if it is unrealisitic. That's basically what was happening on my LG before.
 
martona said:
Thanks!

I can try a different cable (getting one right now) but if it is a cable issue wouldn't the 60Hz option be visible, just not work?
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I can't say from direct experience, but I remember you saying you looked through the EDID information and saw 60 Hz there. If you're asking why it's not available in your GPU settings, maybe the GPU tests bandwidth when it's connected to a display and ignores configurations that it determines the cable won't support, kind of like using ancient Cat 3 cable to connect two Gigabit Ethernet devices will cause you only to get 100 Mbps.
 
BTW for people that buy this monitor beware that the DP cable can be too short, if you have your monitor on the left side of your computer, you may very well end up with problems, since the cable doesn't go much past the width of the monitor. Also there is no USB 3.0 cable to connect to the hub of the monitor.

shadow85 said:
Ok I tried this but I did not like how dark the monitor looked although the blacks were very deep. And I realised my LG was using a custom mode which made colors more saturated/vivid, so I switched the LG to sRGB and also the philips to sRGB, and now they looked more similar to each other. I don't mind the sRGB mode on the phillips, but was wondering if I can make colors more saturated/vivid even if it is unrealisitic. That's basically what was happening on my LG before.
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Will try it out when I get back to the monitor, but a good start for that sort of stuff is probably to put the green and blue values down, while keeping the red at 100, that will likely be the best way to achieve what you are after, you can also try one of the other modes, maybe one of them is closer to what you want, then you can check it out to see what it does differently, and crank up/down the values to get it where you want.
 
Micael said:
Will try it out when I get back to the monitor, but a good start for that sort of stuff is probably to put the green and blue values down, while keeping the red at 100, that will likely be the best way to achieve what you are after, you can also try one of the other modes, maybe one of them is closer to what you want, then you can check it out to see what it does differently, and crank up/down the values to get it where you want.
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What other modes are you talking about?
 
JTB3 said:
With this (and the Philips 40in) monitor, the pixels are not square (e.g. they are not proportionally sized at 1:1 - for reference, nearly all flat-panel monitors are 1:1)

To cut down on panel production costs, the pixels on this monitor are horizontally stretched to a ratio of 1:1.018 - so this will result in images looking wider than they really are, by nearly 2%.

For many of us, this is not too big an issue as the brain will compensate - but for those seriously/professionally involved with graphics, this slight distortion could be an annoyance, or a deal breaker. People will look slightly (2%) fatter and images will appear slightly wider than reality.

The following two links will demonstrate the difference (normal vs stretched):
http://i.imgur.com/9wsgrTb.gif
http://i.imgur.com/4J19WtM.jpg

You can be the judge...
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Hi, I'm curious, is the stretching really that bad because of the non-square pixels, or is it exaggerated in the pictures above ?
 
Micael said:
These ones http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/philips_bdm4065uc/P1070899.JPG no idea if any of those is anywhere near close to what you want, but if they are, they can easily guide you in the direction you want.
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Well I got what looked like more saturation by changing brightness to 50, contrast to 70 and color temperature to 5000. But whites feel a bit red like this.

So atm I am just using sRGB, does anyone else use sRGB for normal everyday use?
 
winston67 said:
Hi, I'm curious, is the stretching really that bad because of the non-square pixels, or is it exaggerated in the pictures above ?
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None of the current owners has felt that it's an issue in actual usage. It's measurable if you put up a large perfect circle/rectangle in Photoshop and get out a ruler, but when I had the display, I never said to myself, "Hmm, this image looks a bit stretched," even though I had already biased myself to see it because I knew about this issue. As I mentioned before, considering that several people don't mind or don't even notice the effects of watching 4x3 content stretched horizontally to fit a 16x9 display, which is a 33% stretch, this display's stretch of 1.8% due to non-square pixels is infinitesimal. At some point in this thread I also posted a link to a PDF comparing normal text to text that had been horizontally stretched 1.8% (vector stretching, not raster stretching) since I thought that might be a better approximation of the effect than digitally stretching a raster image, which introduces more distortion than stretching vector material. Reposted here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_XWEZHd0z9EVXdSWDlRSFBMb0U&authuser=0. I used Adobe InDesign to generate that, which allows you to manipulate type in many more ways than a typical word processor. As you'll see, it's noticeable particularly in the second example when you've got one example right on top of the other, but if you didn't have that, I think you'd agree that the second line looks perfectly normal when viewed by itself.
 
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shadow85 said:
So atm I am just using sRGB, does anyone else use sRGB for normal everyday use?
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Doubt many people will use it, that profile looks very good to me, but unfortunately while 100% brightness actually works well enough in movies and similar stuff, every time you open say google or other white page the brightness becomes too much.
 
shadow85 said:
Ok I tried this but I did not like how dark the monitor looked although the blacks were very deep. And I realised my LG was using a custom mode which made colors more saturated/vivid, so I switched the LG to sRGB and also the philips to sRGB, and now they looked more similar to each other. I don't mind the sRGB mode on the phillips, but was wondering if I can make colors more saturated/vivid even if it is unrealisitic. That's basically what was happening on my LG before.
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When you switch to the custom mode on the LG that you thought looked really good, are you able to go into the menu and observe the brightness, contrast, R/G/B values, etc.? If so, you could write those down to get a general idea of how to adjust the Philips in order to try and replicate that image. You probably can't match it 100% due to differences in the panels and internal electronics, but wouldn't it stand to reason that you could come close?
 
imyourzero said:
When you switch to the custom mode on the LG that you thought looked really good, are you able to go into the menu and observe the brightness, contrast, R/G/B values, etc.? If so, you could write those down to get a general idea of how to adjust the Philips in order to try and replicate that image. You probably can't match it 100% due to differences in the panels and internal electronics, but wouldn't it stand to reason that you could come close?
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Yes I did think of this. I looked at the LG settings in the custom mode that I liked. It had contrast locked at 70 that was greyed out I could not change it, Brightness 45, and R/G/B were all around the 50 mark, and color temperature was set on custom, which I could not figure out what it was, not sure if there was other settings.

I tried exactly these settings on the philips with a color temperature of 6500 but everything looked way out of whack. I have to keep the R/G/B levels on the philips higher for it to look ok. Going to try play aro u nd with it more. I do not mind the sRGB mode on it so just using that for now.
 
shadow85 said:
Hey guys I got my BDM4065UC today and compared it to my LG 31MU97

http://postimg.org/image/wx65vt80r/

The first thing I said to myself, was Holy Moly this monitor is HUGE. I fired her up but I noticed straight away with the Philips is how washed out the colors looked in comparison to the LG :( I was quiet dissapointed Tbh.
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how come the base of your Philip is different than the advertised LCD base? Your base looks like glass. The advertise model is a metal rack, isn't it?
 
Happy Hopping said:
how come the base of your Philip is different than the advertised LCD base? Your base looks like glass. The advertise model is a metal rack, isn't it?
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Yep it's metal there is no glass. Lol

I have made the final decision to keep the Philips and sell my LG. The colors arnt too bad on it after mucking around with the OSD, but I still wish I could get it more saturated like I did on the LG.
 
I just take a closer look. It's metal of course. At first glance, it looks like a platform of glass. Sorry about that. Post some photo of the game / application screen capture
 
Is it bad for the eyes to game for hours on 100% brightness? My eyes hasnt hurt yet, but I suspect they may soon.

I am using the sRGB mode + SmartUniformity so I can't lower brightness atm.
 
Happy Hopping said:
I just take a closer look. It's metal of course. At first glance, it looks like a platform of glass. Sorry about that. Post some photo of the game / application screen capture
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Yeah for some reason that angle I took the photo on does make it look like there is a glass platform. Lol
 
For those who care about how my story posted here:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041409921&postcount=1591
went on:

I got the exchange monitor after about a week directly from Philips and set it up today. Besides it now including all possible cables (yay for free MHL-Cable :D), it had the same problem as the previous one. Only difference is that the dirt/dust is now located somewhere else and even in two places. Filed another RMA, going to see if the third one finally has no flaws anymore :rolleyes:.

Am I really such an unlucky person to get two faulty monitors in a row or are others having the same problem and just don't care / didn't realize it yet?
 
flash0110 said:
For those who care about how my story posted here:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041409921&postcount=1591
went on:

I got the exchange monitor after about a week directly from Philips and set it up today. Besides it now including all possible cables (yay for free MHL-Cable :D), it had the same problem as the previous one. Only difference is that the dirt/dust is now located somewhere else and even in two places. Filed another RMA, going to see if the third one finally has no flaws anymore :rolleyes:.

Am I really such an unlucky person to get two faulty monitors in a row or are others having the same problem and just don't care / didn't realize it yet?
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What country are you in? How was Philips to deal with regarding the warranty? Honestly I'm kind of impressed that they exchanged it over such a minor issue. I'm not trying to downplay it because that would probably bug me also, but it's encouraging that they were willing to exchange it for something other than a major defect.
 
shadow85 said:
Is it bad for the eyes to game for hours on 100% brightness? My eyes hasnt hurt yet, but I suspect they may soon.

I am using the sRGB mode + SmartUniformity so I can't lower brightness atm.
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I can't make my mind up between this Philips VA panel vs a IPS monitor. Doesn't the viewing angles or color quality bother you?
 
unkletom said:
I can't make my mind up between this Philips VA panel vs a IPS monitor. Doesn't the viewing angles or color quality bother you?
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Well the color quality isnt too bad, it's ok when you tweak it via OSD, and I only view the monitor directly I don't view on angles, so it is fine to me.
 
The only issue VA has over IPS in terms of color accuracy is the off-centre gamma shift which makes it not as good for color critical work. For most people this is not a thing they should worry about, and the massive contrast advantage VA has is far more important for things like movies and games.
 
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