PC: MW2 DLC Map Pack 5/4

[piscian18]

Have you ever tried to make professional level, retail, commercial quality gaming levels?

I think you're being kinda subjective here but yes I played with Source Mapping Counter-strike:Source and a Source game called "Empire". Was it easy? well define easy. It took months of 2 hours here 3 hours there to perfect the maps the way we wanted, but we were never after a cheap buck. If a had the SDK and I had a years worth of experience with MW2? I could bust out a map of the same quality in a 40 hour week.

Getting into politics, them charging $10 for a couple maps seems..disingenuous. It makes me feel like MW2 was made on assembly line and theres no heart and soul in the product. I look at this and I look at Dr. Neds Zombie Island and it just feels like an empty gesture in comparison at best and at worst a pre-determined Mcdonalds happy meal money grab.

If you wanna keep a customer like myself happy put out a new free map every couple months. That's not hard to do. Or like Tripwire does with Killing Floor Have map making contests.

 

[SixtyWattMan]

Have you ever tried to make professional level, retail, commercial quality gaming levels?

Yes I made several maps in Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2.

 

[Shalafi]

Have you ever tried to make professional level, retail, commercial quality gaming levels?

you say that like it's hard and beyond the user community's skills

You are well informed that community made maps have existed since the dawn of time, right? Some of them even eclipsed the popularity of the original game levels.

It's great that you like MW2 and want to buy this map pack, but Jesus man, your post reeks of sheer ignorance.

 

[Savoy]

I like bc2 and mw2. In fact I play them both regularly. So ya I bought the exp and no I don't like paying for maps but the entertainment value is there so wtf whatever.I have more important shit to worry about in life rather than not spending 13 bucks to make a statement and prove a point. Yes yes I get it activison and iw are devil money sucking whores, so be it. I go see a 3d movie and I spend more than this and that lasts twohours. meh.

 

[butterfliesrpretty]

I see what you did there. They work on entire mods, think Natural Selection, Insurgency, Pirates Vikings and Knights 2, Empires, and Portal Prelude. Map making itself is relatively easy. Now while map making is easy, map balancing for a game like Natural Selection can become a long ongoing process. The maps in CoD are simplistic in comparison because it's a shooter where all you can do is walk on the group and jump and it's just a deathmatch game.

Just because something can be considered work doesn't mean it can't also be considered easy.

as 3d modeler map making is not easy, you could put together a shitty map quick for sure but like anything if you want it good it takes some time.

 

[kuyaglen]

At least MW2 PC gamers are getting offered something...unlike the pc gamers of NFS:Shift.

 

[spindoctor]

At least MW2 PC gamers are getting offered something...unlike the pc gamers of NFS:Shift.

and more famously, Prince of Persia, where the epilogue DLC was with held from the PC for some unknown reason. That was just ridiculous.

 

[Sikkyu]

lol

great poll is great

 

[krameriffic]

I have a problem with the DLC model in general. The only DLC I've ever considered worth buying (and indeed the only one I have ever bought) was the Secret Armory of General Knoxx for Borderlands. That thing was, in almost every way, a good old fashioned expansion pack. Everything else is just an excuse to get us to pay for minor shit we used to get for free in the olden days of PC gaming, prior to the explosive growth of the retard population fueling the money machine that is console gaming.

 

[Commander FAT]

you say that like it's hard and beyond the user community's skills

You are well informed that community made maps have existed since the dawn of time, right? Some of them even eclipsed the popularity of the original game levels.

It's great that you like MW2 and want to buy this map pack, but Jesus man, your post reeks of sheer ignorance.

I've played around with QeRadiant, Quark, and Unreal Ed myself in the past and I am firmly aware that there are some seriously talented people in the mod community.

There's no way in hell anyone can build any of the levels included in MW2 in a 40 hour week. We're talking basic design on paper first. Pick out your color palettes and texture sets. Then you have to build it, light it. Then play test it through every single gaming mode with all the various character classes. Don't forget taking into account the killstreaks. Would a sentry gun be way over powered in this particular spot? Then you have to tweak it and debug it again and again until it's balanced in as close to every way possible. Are the flag points too close, too far? Is there a good flow route between the various domination points? How about the spawn points for headquarters? You ever find those really out of the way sight lines? That one odd ball innocuous sniping spot on a map? There's a bunch of them in MW2. You think they happened by accident? You ever notice how many ledges and spots in the game are very restrictive when you go prone or crouch down? There's usually a railing or other piece of architecture preventing you from being a total camp whore. You think that happened by accident?

Let's not forget tweaking and debugging for performance. The game has to run on just about all the possible hardware configurations out there.

40 hours? Bull fucking shit.

The designers and builders of the map pack worked their asses off and it's completely worth $15. The map pack will add hours upon hours of replay value.

 

[Commander FAT]

Was it easy? well define easy. It took months of 2 hours here 3 hours there to perfect the maps the way we wanted

You're working on a retail game. You're working every day, 8 hours a day. Probably more. It turns to hard work real fast.

 

[Raekwon]

While not easy to make, they are literally printing money at this price (and with the sales volume seen on the 360).

 

[PrincessFrosty]

I saw the map pack on steam for £10+ a total rip off.

IW sucks, MW2 sucks, this map pack sucks and BFBC2 is 10x better, the poll basically reflects that, it's nice to know that I'm not the only sane person left on the planet.

 

[spicey]

I saw the map pack on steam for £10+ a total rip off.

IW sucks, MW2 sucks, this map pack sucks and BFBC2 is 10x better, the poll basically reflects that, it's nice to know that I'm not the only sane person left on the planet.

Too expensive, it's Activision though so I'm not surprised.

IW does suck, MW2 is fun, haven't got Stimulus pack yet so can't comment reliably and BFBC2 is good but not 10x better. Just a bit better and more exciting mainly due to the destructible environs. BC2 still suffers from console roots much like MW2.

 

[Spewn]

The designers and builders of the map pack worked their asses off and it's completely worth $15. The map pack will add hours upon hours of replay value.

Edit; How can the map pack be worth $15 when the game, which includes more than 4x as much work as what's in the map pack, was $60?

Edit2: I'll also add that someone making a custom map is probably both less experienced and less well-equipped than someone working for Infinity Ward. I'm sure it takes me longer to do some wiring than it would take a licensed electrician, but I'm glad they don't bill me based on the number of hours it would take *me* to do the job.

 

[FrEaKy]

Sheesh, I still am working on an original Unreal Tournament map, logged in 400 hours so far (one day I may finish it).

I do think IW did an unjustice by not allowing community maps, but I dont think the maps they made lack quality at all. I have done my pre-order for the map pack soly because all my buds bought it as well.

And I equally love BC2 as I do MW2. I still cant wait for the new Medal of Honor though.

 

[deweatherly]

I've played around with QeRadiant, Quark, and Unreal Ed myself in the past and I am firmly aware that there are some seriously talented people in the mod community.

There's no way in hell anyone can build any of the levels included in MW2 in a 40 hour week. We're talking basic design on paper first. Pick out your color palettes and texture sets. Then you have to build it, light it. Then play test it through every single gaming mode with all the various character classes. Don't forget taking into account the killstreaks. Would a sentry gun be way over powered in this particular spot? Then you have to tweak it and debug it again and again until it's balanced in as close to every way possible. Are the flag points too close, too far? Is there a good flow route between the various domination points? How about the spawn points for headquarters? You ever find those really out of the way sight lines? That one odd ball innocuous sniping spot on a map? There's a bunch of them in MW2. You think they happened by accident? You ever notice how many ledges and spots in the game are very restrictive when you go prone or crouch down? There's usually a railing or other piece of architecture preventing you from being a total camp whore. You think that happened by accident?

Let's not forget tweaking and debugging for performance. The game has to run on just about all the possible hardware configurations out there.

40 hours? Bull fucking shit.

The designers and builders of the map pack worked their asses off and it's completely worth $15. The map pack will add hours upon hours of replay value.

QFT, i enjoy [H]ardforum but you cannot even speak of MW2 without ignorant bashing. Most of the people bash it, and haven't even played the game. The new maps are of the highest quality and well worth the 15 they charge for it. i would rather have 5 maps that are High quality and well balanced than 20 community made maps that are un balanced and terrible to play.

 

[defiant007]

QFT, i enjoy [H]ardforum but you cannot even speak of MW2 without ignorant bashing. Most of the people bash it, and haven't even played the game. The new maps are of the highest quality and well worth the 15 they charge for it. i would rather have 5 maps that are High quality and well balanced than 20 community made maps that are un balanced and terrible to play.

You mean 3 maps, and two reskinned maps from a previous game

And your analogy is completely off balance. I would rather have thousands of modders churning out tens of thousands of maps, of which even if only 5% of those maps are any good, that is still a hell of a lot more than 3 crappy maps for which an absolute horrific premium is levied (apart from the fact that many amateur modders go on to become professional level designers).

And lets face it, if Activision was absolutely confident with the quality of their map making skills they would not have taken the underhanded approach of removing custom maps, thereby forcing premium content on users.

 

[deweatherly]

You mean 3 maps, and two reskinned maps from a previous game

And your analogy is completely off balance. I would rather have thousands of modders churning out tens of thousands of maps, of which even if only 5% of those maps are any good, that is still a hell of a lot more than 3 crappy maps for which an absolute horrific premium is levied (apart from the fact that many amateur modders go on to become professional level designers).

And lets face it, if Activision was absolutely confident with the quality of their map making skills they would not have taken the underhanded approach of removing custom maps, thereby forcing premium content on users.

the 2 maps they brought back was a bonus IMO, much rather have them then 2 new maps.

With MW2 match making, 1000+ maps would be a horrible idea, this is not counterstrike. You can only vote 1 map at a time. With 100+ maps would make this game impossible to learn.

 

[defiant007]

the 2 maps they brought back was a bonus IMO, much rather have them then 2 new maps.

With MW2 match making, 1000+ maps would be a horrible idea, this is not counterstrike. You can only vote 1 map at a time. With 100+ maps would make this game impossible to learn.

Way to miss the point with your straw man argument

There wouldn't be a need for matchmaking if Activision had not decided to be ass hats, but that really goes hand in hand with what they had in mind. You cannot force premium content on users without using a match making model, which in turn is a shit model for several reasons.

Point being, the ability to have dedicated servers, admins with control of map rotations, and custom maps goes against the economic model Activision has decided to run with.

In any event, none of that detracts from the fact that the community can put out just as good, if not significantly better maps than many professionally made maps at a much better price......i.e. FREE!

 

[Spewn]

With MW2 match making, 1000+ maps would be a horrible idea, this is not counterstrike. You can only vote 1 map at a time. With 100+ maps would make this game impossible to learn.

So what you're saying is that because Modern Warfare 2 lacks dedicated server support, having hundreds of maps would be hectic/too difficult to learn them all?

Doesn't that mean that MW2 should have dedicated servers more than it means MW2 shouldn't have custom maps?

 

[Porter_]

i understand people not purchasing because it's not worth the money to them. i don't get the people who are trying to support a 'larger purpose' of the good ol' days of free content. back when i was first introduced to free community mods and developer-made map packs i thought to myself "man i can't believe i get all this for free". i've had that same perspective ever since. it's a perk. a bonus. not an expectation. i don't understand the sense of entitlement some gamers have. why would you have the mindset that you deserve free stuff? if you want it then buy it. if not then don't. I understand the argument that it bifurcates the community. to me that's a pretty insignificant hassle. to others it's the end of the world.

 

[Commander FAT]

Edit; How can the map pack be worth $15 when the game, which includes more than 4x as much work as what's in the map pack, was $60?

Think about how many more hours you can pour into learning new levels across all the various gaming modes you would play. Now think about how much it costs to go watch a movie in the theater.

 

[TheBlueChanell]

What they should do is take a page out of Valve's book and after the release run a steam sale for $40 and include the DLC with it. That'll never happen though because it's Activision we are talking about.

 

[Spewn]

Think about how many more hours you can pour into learning new levels across all the various gaming modes you would play. Now think about how much it costs to go watch a movie in the theater.

What does how much it costs to go see a movie have to do with anything? You could sit around at home and do nothing all the time and spend $0 therefore that's the best use of your money because it's the cheapest. Durr? Some things are worth more than others. My point is that if you can buy far more than 4x the amount of work, enjoyment, etc, for only 4x the amount of money, then the map-pack can't be a "good value" when compared to the game itself.

 

[Shalafi]

Think about how many more hours you can pour into learning new levels across all the various gaming modes you would play. Now think about how much it costs to go watch a movie in the theater.

Wow, just wow . . .

I tried and tried, and I could not find any logical consistency or any kind of similiarity in your analogy, it was a total failure of such epic proportions that calling it a failure gives failures a bad name.

New levels are what keeps a game FRESH, that's the whole point of new levels, if you don't like them, nobody's pointing a gun at your head forcing you to play them. New levels have potential to extend the lifespan of a game, or increase it's popularity because of new levels.

Please, please, think before posting, especially if you're going to post an analogy.

 

[DriZzLe]

No freaking way. This game is dead. It sucks more than anything has ever sucked before(not quite as bad as Rogue Warrior)

 

[deweatherly]

Way to miss the point with your straw man argument

There wouldn't be a need for matchmaking if Activision had not decided to be ass hats, but that really goes hand in hand with what they had in mind. You cannot force premium content on users without using a match making model, which in turn is a shit model for several reasons.

Point being, the ability to have dedicated servers, admins with control of map rotations, and custom maps goes against the economic model Activision has decided to run with.

In any event, none of that detracts from the fact that the community can put out just as good, if not significantly better maps than many professionally made maps at a much better price......i.e. FREE!

So what you're saying is that because Modern Warfare 2 lacks dedicated server support, having hundreds of maps would be hectic/too difficult to learn them all?

Doesn't that mean that MW2 should have dedicated servers more than it means MW2 shouldn't have custom maps?

Way to miss the point with your straw man argument

i did not miss the argument at all. Are we turning this into a "No DS for MW2" Thread or is this about the DLC? When talking about MW2's DLC you have to relate it to the system it uses, Of coarse it would be different if it had DS, but it doesn't, So 1000 maps would not work with the system it uses.

EVERYONE KNOW'S BY NOW THERE ARE NO DEDICATED SERVERS FOR PC. PLEASE STOP BEATING THE DEAD HORSE

-Again, 1000+ custom maps would not work on match making, The designers of these maps did a fantastic job, they made every map very balanced and they are probably the best maps on the game. They are better than any amateur could have done in a reasonable time frame. I feel that they deserve to get paid for their work. This is the future of gaming and you can cry about it if you want, but before to long, all DLC's in any game will cost money.

 

[MattyC]

No thanks. $15 for what 5 mostly old maps? No wonder they didn't release an editor... they know their players could make way better maps for free.

 

[Commander FAT]

Wow, just wow . . .

I tried and tried, and I could not find any logical consistency or any kind of similiarity in your analogy, it was a total failure of such epic proportions that calling it a failure gives failures a bad name.

New levels are what keeps a game FRESH, that's the whole point of new levels, if you don't like them, nobody's pointing a gun at your head forcing you to play them. New levels have potential to extend the lifespan of a game, or increase it's popularity because of new levels.

Please, please, think before posting, especially if you're going to post an analogy.

I'm talking about cost versus how many hours you get out of it. It's a lot more than other types of media.

Sorry I failed you, master.

 

[Commander FAT]

What does how much it costs to go see a movie have to do with anything? You could sit around at home and do nothing all the time and spend $0 therefore that's the best use of your money because it's the cheapest. Durr? Some things are worth more than others. My point is that if you can buy far more than 4x the amount of work, enjoyment, etc, for only 4x the amount of money, then the map-pack can't be a "good value" when compared to the game itself.

It was an example comparison. Having something to do for two hours versus having something to do for hundreds of hours. I probably have close to 400 hours put in between PC and Xbox. Of course it's subjective to whether a person likes the game or not. But to be honest $60 bucks for that kinda longevity is pretty damn good. The map pack will only extend the replayability.

I could sit around like a rock and do nothing for $0 but then I couldn't play MW2 or the new maps.

The $15 price tag isn't that bad. The game is the current hotness and the price is justified.

 

[Commander FAT]

No thanks. $15 for what 5 mostly old maps? No wonder they didn't release an editor... they know their players could make way better maps for free.

2 is bigger than 3?

 

[deweatherly]

No thanks. $15 for what 5 mostly old maps? No wonder they didn't release an editor... they know their players could make way better maps for free.

I hear a lot of grief from people because of the 2 old maps, but in my playing career on MW2, the 2 old maps are the LEAST skipped maps. no one bitches about them except people who don't play. Those 2 old map were great and it nice to see play these maps on the new feature from MW2. at the very least the 2 old maps made the DLC not the new ones, IMHO.

 

[Blazestorm]

What about this... would you have paid $75 for a "special edition" MW2 that came with 4 more maps than the regular edition at $60, and the regular edition couldn't play those maps?

I mean if they offered it at the start... if you compare the content of the game to what those 4 maps are, it doesn't add up to $15. or 25% of the original game.

 

[SixtyWattMan]

What about this... would you have paid $75 for a "special edition" MW2 that came with 4 more maps than the regular edition at $60, and the regular edition couldn't play those maps?

I mean if they offered it at the start... if you compare the content of the game to what those 4 maps are, it doesn't add up to $15. or 25% of the original game.

Stop making so much sense.

 

[deweatherly]

What about this... would you have paid $75 for a "special edition" MW2 that came with 4 more maps than the regular edition at $60, and the regular edition couldn't play those maps?

I mean if they offered it at the start... if you compare the content of the game to what those 4 maps are, it doesn't add up to $15. or 25% of the original game.

Stop making so much sense.

yea you know what you're talking about.... it's 5 maps FYI.

 

[Blazestorm]

Look at my care-o-meter going to infinity.

Real DLC that's worth paying for is what Gearbox is doing with Borderlands... cheaper than this fucking map pack and actual content...

Sorry I don't want other game companies to follow this stupid trend because IW does it and morons buy into it.

 

[spicey]

It sucks more than anything has ever sucked before(not quite as bad as Rogue Warrior)

Contradiction, much!

 

[MattyC]

I am not sure why "Oh they were least skipped!" "More new than old!" nullifies what I said.


If you disagree with me, then buy them and go crazy. I have zero issues with people enjoying or paying for the DLC. However I haven't seen anything that makes those maps special or worth payment. I have played games and seen awesome mods and maps that certainly (imo) rival those. Because of this I think the idea that a community for a game is incapable of making good maps is stupid and inconsistent with history. Again, if you disagree with me that is fine. However you should post some real reasons and not just "YOU ARE WRONG!".

 

[spindoctor]

Because of this I think the idea that a community for a game is incapable of making good maps is stupid and inconsistent with history.

I don't think anyone is saying that communities are incapable of making good maps/content. The point of contention is that some people believe the maps created by the developers are worth nothing because the community releases maps for free.