PC Gaming, will it END?

A

altcon

Guest
I'm sorry to be starting one of these threads (as I'm sure there are plenty),
But after reading Epic and Crytek citing losses after shipping two of the biggest titles in the past few years.
Both companies DIRECTLY blaming piracy on their low income and UT3 reporting about 40 million Hacked copies trying to log on to UT3 servers.
I'm just wondering where this is all going and if we can do something to make sure the PC platform doesn't get slowly phased out as a Gaming platform.
What can we do?
 
I'll still pay for games that are worth the money, I will also never take up serious-gaming on a console, that is reserved for the PC. RPG/RTS/MMORPG/FPS will always play its best on a PC. My opinon.
 
I don't think PC gaming is going anywhere....they can blame pirating all they want but when it comes down to it, UT3 and Crysis were not that great...release a good game and you'll make a profit...make shit and you won't..
 
RangerSVT said:
I'll still pay for games that are worth the money, I will also never take up serious-gaming on a console, that is reserved for the PC. RPG/RTS/MMORPG/FPS will always play its best on a PC. My opinon.
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All those game genres listed happen to be my favorites to play. So I guess I will be playing solely PC.
 
basically subscription based games are going to be the way things are run in the future.

i.e. look at WoW. they can crack down alot harder on piracy since the content is continually being streamed. however i very strongly see central story driven games to sort of die off, which is a bummer.
 
I would not say subscription based games so much as distribution channels such as Steam. Steam and its kin are the way of the future. Now if we can only get games released digitally that are cheaper than retail.

Secondly I agree, the two cited games did not make the sales because they were not great. UT3 was a complete flop and crysis while graphically nice it had no real story.
 
RangerSVT said:
I'll still pay for games that are worth the money, I will also never take up serious-gaming on a console, that is reserved for the PC. RPG/RTS/MMORPG/FPS will always play its best on a PC. My opinon.
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+1.

bmorton18 said:
I don't think PC gaming is going anywhere....they can blame pirating all they want but when it comes down to it, UT3 and Crysis were not that great...release a good game and you'll make a profit...make shit and you won't..
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+1.

UT3 sucked and Crysis, while gorgeous, ran like shit (on most rigs) and was a rather mediocre game itself.

Look at some of the other great games to come out where they made money and are happy.... Sins of a Solar Empire. How about Galactic Civ 2, it must have done well if they're working on ANOTHER [game overhauling] expansion pack. Civ 4? Must have done ok too.

quality = makes money. fun = makes money. Replayability = makes money.
 
Yeah I gotta agree. UT3 was a letdown, but I thought Crysis was alright. Bioshock was awesome, and so was The Witcher, however, look at all the crappy games that have come out recently:

Conflict: Denied Ops
Frontlines: Fuel of War
Soldier of Fortune Payback
...I am sure there are more you guys can think of.
 
There's a guy in CPU magazine that's written a couple interesting articles on this...

Going as far as predicting that it's consoles that are eventually gonna start disappearing as they start inheriting many of the issues that plague PC games... Bugs and patches (look at the GTA issues); eventually more cheating as consoles grow more and more PC-like and people have increased access to the guts of the machines, etc.

I can't say whether he's right or not but he makes some interesting points... What PC devs can do is obviously move towards mediums that mitigate piracy... Digital distribution with hassle-free DRM schemes that actually work, etc. I imagine that being able to publish the game outside of the retail outlets alone mitigates the impact of piracy to a degree since they're investing less in distribution...

There's also episodic gaming, which ties right into that, tho it obviously doesn't fit every genre... And then there's MMORPGs, the big cash cow right now apparently (though mostly for Blizzard I imagine).

Crysis and UT3 are kinda unique as far as supposed 'blockbuster' titles go imo, one's more of an engine showcase than anything (a-la-id Soft imo) and the other's highly derivative... I wonder if they saw the same amount of piracy or less/more than other titles w/a more specific audience like say SupCom, those Lego titles, or some of the console ports (Assassin's, GoW), or even something like CoD4.

Some of those games have more replayability than something like Crysis does too, I wonder if that factors in at all into the whole piracy rate.

The biggest problem PC gaming faces is not piracy at all imo, it's the finer issues that we really have no control over (and part of what some people like about it compred to consoles). You can't guarantee a game will run on every PC, sometimes you'll run into glitches, even when it comes to stuff as simple as joining a server to play online...

That's always been the biggest turn-off that sends people back to consoles. Piracy by itself, regardless of how much it costs publishers, is not sending people back to consoles, there's quality games (and unique titles) on either side of the fence.
 
Impulse said:
Going as far as predicting that it's consoles that are eventually gonna start disappearing as they start inheriting many of the issues that plague PC games... Bugs and patches (look at the GTA issues); eventually more cheating as consoles grow more and more PC-like and people have increased access to the guts of the machines, etc.

.
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This quote above, states the absolute truth!

I really don't care too much about the issues with those games though, I usually play Fighting/Wrestling/Football/Basketball on consoles, that is where they strive on, atleast in my opinion.
 
I don't think either is ever gonna go away altogether for one simple fact... I enjoy playing Super Smash Bro or Mario Kart on a big screen TV with my pals as much as I enjoy playing a good RTS/FPS online with them. :p Altho playing something like Bomberman (SNES!) w/4 buddies on an emulator running on a PC hooked up to a TV is a close in-between. :D
 
Impulse said:
I don't think either is ever gonna go away altogether for one simple fact... I enjoy playing Super Smash Bro or Mario Kart on a big screen TV with my pals as much as I enjoy playing a good RTS/FPS online with them. :p Altho playing something like Bomberman (SNES!) w/4 buddies on an emulator running on a PC hooked up to a TV is a close in-between. :D
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I played that game for the WII, it's fun, but difficult at first. I like mortal kombat for the WII, looks good.

My favorite console game of all time would have to be Golden Eye 007 for the N64, and in second place, Killer Instinct.
 
I hate to break it to you guys, but Crysis sucked.
The game wasn't bad, but the hype you got going into it just totally destroyed any chance at fun for me in that game. When I get my HD4870X2 I'll give it a run in its full glory to see how she plays, maybe without constant FPS drops dragging me out of the moment, this yenki-shenki will have a little more fun.

PC gaming isn't going anywhere for the next 5 years at least. It might when Indy developers can seriously develop for the consoles, but that just isn't happening yet.
 
id otn think it will end BUT it will get less and less common. consoles are taking over. they are getting all the big hit games and exclusives while pc gaming is getting ports after ports, after ports. i was gunna build a new pc rig but decided not to and went off and bought a ps3. the only difference between and ps3 and pc is that umm??? infact they are near identical!

what ps3's can do that a pc can:

install games on hdd,
install OS on it ie linux.
folding at home
browse the internet
attach almost any type of usb device such has keyboard, mouse, joypads and even the logitech g25 wheel!
upgrade the hdd

what it cant do:
upgrade the graphics card,ram, cpu etc.

and how much does it costs? half the price of a cheap quad core gaming rig.
 
altcon said:
I'm sorry to be starting one of these threads (as I'm sure there are plenty),
But after reading Epic and Crytek citing losses after shipping two of the biggest titles in the past few years.
Both companies DIRECTLY blaming piracy on their low income and UT3 reporting about 40 million Hacked copies trying to log on to UT3 servers.
I'm just wondering where this is all going and if we can do something to make sure the PC platform doesn't get slowly phased out as a Gaming platform.
What can we do?
Click to expand...

Epic and Crytek both built not only the game but the engine as well, this has massive implications on the cost of building the game. The business model they run is one of writing an 3D engine, and then building their own game off that technology to more or less showcase the engines abilities, and then make most of their revenue from licencing that engine to other developers who wish to build a game but not have to build the engine from scratch.

Both did significant development in to next generation technology, it's not really surprising that they didn't make a profit on these titles, but I think they know that, no doubt they expected their games to sell better than they actually did, but I very much doubt that they were expecting the sales to cover the costs of all the development.
 
altcon said:
I'm just wondering where this is all going and if we can do something to make sure the PC platform doesn't get slowly phased out as a Gaming platform. What can we do?
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In short, NO, PC gaming will always be ahead of consoles and pushing ahead.

However to keep the PC market as fresh as we like you should make sure everyone you know pay's for their damn games, tries the demo's instead of stealing the game, and pays for their damn games :) When very few people are stealing a crappy game and no one is buying it they cant blame piracy for their lame sales, instead they might actually have to look at the crap they release. ::points at movie industry::

UT3 was decent, but could and should have been so much more.

Crysis, amazing graphics which are hard to play with eye candy on currently. Fun and decent story to start with but the story got lost at the end and so the game's fun factor did too.
 
I know tons and tons of games have used the Unreal engines but how many games used the Farcry engine? There's still more games using various old iterations of id's engines than that isn't there? Who would even wanna license the Crysis engine right now regardless of how well it looks considering how it performs... 'Least UT3 will run beautifully on just about anything.
 
With games like RTS games like Starcraft 2, new hack and slash RPGs, MMORPGs, D&D type RPG, simulations, FPS`s, and console games being ported over to the PC, the PC will continue to be fine. There are more than enough current great games and there are 100s of old excellent games to be played.

Old console games and PSX games can also be played on the PC through emulation. Then there are also casual games that keep some people on the PC.

The PC is doing alright.
 
A note on consoles "taking over", and as you'll see, this really bugs me.

Consoles HEAVILY rely on the PC market to essentially buffer a lot of their costs. Nvidia and ATI are the companies who make the video hardware for the consoles and they can't survive as hardware manufacturers in a market which only demands bespoke hardware to be developed every 5-6 years.

The PC video card market powers these hardware manufacturers with a full technology cycle of about 18 months, and intermittent refreshes inbetween. Without the drive in technology on the PC front these companies might cease to exist, or more likely would just pull out of the video card market in general.

That would have massive implications for 2 reasons:

1) Technology advancement would crawl to a halt, the only reason the PS3 is so much better than the PS2 is because in between their development sat years and years of constant development on the PC, driving the technology which allowed such an increase in rendering power in such a small time.
2) The cost of developing this hardware for consoles in future would be a lot steeper, this is something that console owners take for granted, they already buy their hardware cheaper than it costs to produce (console manufacturers actually make a big loss on the hardware)

With a steep rise in hardware costs, and lack of development in graphics technology, console users would be paying a lot MORE for LESS development, the costs of the hardware would either go up which would destroy the console business model.

Then we have the API, of course the Xbox360 uses the DirectX API which was built over the years for PC's to allow software in the windows environment to get access to the hardware, so development on that would no doubt come to a stand still, more costs for microsoft to develop for the console rather than "borrowing" from the PC.

In short, the console market heavily borrows from the PC market, it couldn't exist as it does today without the PC gaming market, it drives hardware, it drives development, consoles don't drive anything, they're always behind the times, on their release there is always something more powerful and more advanced for the PC. They just take years and years of continual development and improvement and repackage it in a way thats more appealing to the average joe.

Console users better HOPE the PC gaming market does die.
 
We may see a decline in the big name titles, but this may not necessarily be a bad thing. It may leave room for smaller, independant delevopers. I'd much rather see games like Sins of a Solar Empire and The Witcher than Madden 09 or another half-assed UT.
 
altcon said:
I'm sorry to be starting one of these threads (as I'm sure there are plenty),
But after reading Epic and Crytek citing losses after shipping two of the biggest titles in the past few years.
Both companies DIRECTLY blaming piracy on their low income and UT3 reporting about 40 million Hacked copies trying to log on to UT3 servers.
I'm just wondering where this is all going and if we can do something to make sure the PC platform doesn't get slowly phased out as a Gaming platform.
What can we do?
Click to expand...

Honestly, there's nothing we can do. As long as there are PCs there will be hacking and pirating. There will always be someone who can think of a ways around the "full proof" anti-piracy gimmicks.
 
Frostex said:
A note on consoles "taking over", and as you'll see, this really bugs me.

Consoles HEAVILY rely on the PC market to essentially buffer a lot of their costs. Nvidia and ATI are the companies who make the video hardware for the consoles and they can't survive as hardware manufacturers in a market which only demands bespoke hardware to be developed every 5-6 years.

The PC video card market powers these hardware manufacturers with a full technology cycle of about 18 months, and intermittent refreshes inbetween. Without the drive in technology on the PC front these companies might cease to exist, or more likely would just pull out of the video card market in general.

That would have massive implications for 2 reasons:

1) Technology advancement would crawl to a halt, the only reason the PS3 is so much better than the PS2 is because in between their development sat years and years of constant development on the PC, driving the technology which allowed such an increase in rendering power in such a small time.
2) The cost of developing this hardware for consoles in future would be a lot steeper, this is something that console owners take for granted, they already buy their hardware cheaper than it costs to produce (console manufacturers actually make a big loss on the hardware)

With a steep rise in hardware costs, and lack of development in graphics technology, console users would be paying a lot MORE for LESS development, the costs of the hardware would either go up which would destroy the console business model.

Then we have the API, of course the Xbox360 uses the DirectX API which was built over the years for PC's to allow software in the windows environment to get access to the hardware, so development on that would no doubt come to a stand still, more costs for microsoft to develop for the console rather than "borrowing" from the PC.

In short, the console market heavily borrows from the PC market, it couldn't exist as it does today without the PC gaming market, it drives hardware, it drives development, consoles don't drive anything, they're always behind the times, on their release there is always something more powerful and more advanced for the PC. They just take years and years of continual development and improvement and repackage it in a way thats more appealing to the average joe.

Console users better HOPE the PC gaming market does die.
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Very well said. I agree 100%. That's has always been my stance as well. All consoles with their multifuntionality, pc-like hardware (i.e. hard drives, and installing games on them), internet browsers... etc etc. The only "evolution" consoles will experience is becoming more like PCs and having more Pc-like capabilities.
 
zamardii said:
Very well said. I agree 100%. That's has always been my stance as well. All consoles with their multifuntionality, pc-like hardware (i.e. hard drives, and installing games on them), internet browsers... etc etc. The only "evolution" consoles will experience is becoming more like PCs and having more Pc-like capabilities.
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yeah, the real question should be "console gaming as we know it, will it end?"
 
No discussion of the piracy that's nudge-nudge-wink-wink on this and other forums. Even though it's officially against the rules, I've seen people handing out invites to warez sites, many people "used to do it" or "I'll buy it if I like it". And then when game companies cite piracy as a reason for lower sales they get "well Crysis sucked" back from the community.

IMO the PC gaming world is going to get forced into hardware level DRM and even more invasive Securom-type protection. Which is going to piss gamers off, especially those of use that buy our games legitimately. Which will feed the cycle and continue to erode development of new PC games. (On the good side I think we'll start seeing some decent independent/lower budget gaming again. Remembers Escape Velocity on my old Mac... :::sniff::: )
 
As long as we BS like "by opening this box you agree to the eula within" and dumb as people who buy something and NO MATTER what the company wants to do, click yes.
The whole computer thing is going bonkers just because people are stupid.

I see nothing wrong with having to log into a site to verify my serial number. BUT while they are at it they grab everything they can find and say its in THEIR best interest. BS

everything is F the consumer we bought off 9 senators to get what we wanted

And who is the worst one trying to destroy windows based gaming.
MICROCRAP....errrrrr.....microsoft that is
 
Nothings dying, but game genres are settling in their respective platforms. PC is going to stay strong with MMORPGS, RTS games, and Sims games. Blockbuster action games, sports games, and misc other games will be primarily on the console.

If the PC video card market stopped moving forward, it wouldn't mean anything. It would just mean that all the technology would be progressing behind closed doors to suit consoles entirely.

Do you think that MS and Sony are just sitting back letting video card manufacturers come out with cards, and then when they decide they want to build a new console, go to the store and grab a video card off the shelf and decide, yep this will be in our console!

Reality check Frosteh, the console gaming business doesn't need PC gaming to survive. MS and Sony can deal with Nvidia and ATI directly to develop custom solutions. ATI and Nvidia know this, so it's not like if PC gaming died, ATI and nvidia would have nothing to do. You can be sure both MS and Sony's next gen console is already being developed in partnership with ati and nvidia. These aren't children, frosteh, they are companies making money, and they are going to push technology every generation, no need to worry about that.
 
Is it just me or is it every week a new one of these "PC gaming death" threads arises? :rolleyes:
 
altcon said:
I'm sorry to be starting one of these threads (as I'm sure there are plenty),
But after reading Epic and Crytek citing losses after shipping two of the biggest titles in the past few years.
Both companies DIRECTLY blaming piracy on their low income and UT3 reporting about 40 million Hacked copies trying to log on to UT3 servers.
I'm just wondering where this is all going and if we can do something to make sure the PC platform doesn't get slowly phased out as a Gaming platform.
What can we do?
Click to expand...

are you serious?

I would think that those games didnt sell very well because not everyone has a $3,000 PC with a $600 video card!:rolleyes:
 
Nettwerk said:
Mass Effect will have some fun copy protection

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=628375&forum=125
read 4th post down
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Nice, I'll probably also end up using a "fixed" version. For ease of use as well. Hurrah for sealed box gaming!

damonposey said:
Reality check Frosteh, the console gaming business doesn't need PC gaming to survive. MS and Sony can deal with Nvidia and ATI directly to develop custom solutions. ATI and Nvidia know this, so it's not like if PC gaming died, ATI and nvidia would have nothing to do. You can be sure both MS and Sony's next gen console is already being developed in partnership with ati and nvidia. These aren't children, frosteh, they are companies making money, and they are going to push technology every generation, no need to worry about that.
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No, Microsoft and Sony will have to finance their own hardware research companies, since there won't be the video card market providing financing for progressing. You're assuming that all these companies make money on is their research? Thats not enough, or suddenly your "consoles are cheaper" arguement will be out the door, because it will cost $1299 cause you paid for the R&D (without having the buffer of PC hardware sales).
 
I decided to go with a new PC at the end of 2006 (November) rather than get a PS3, and I am glad I made that move. I had been out of the PC scene for a LONG time, so I played all the old games that I never got to play since 2000ish and have been really happy with it so far.

Now to me, consoles in general are missing a few things, but when they get them, it will hurt the PC scene even more (even though like someone said before consoles are going the way of the PC anyway).

Those things are:
1080p 60fps for ALL games w/4xaa and 16xaf
native keyboard/mouse support for all games (not forced on people though, you should be able to choose whether or not you want to use it)

If the PS3 would have had the above I would not have built a computer, I would have bought a PS3. But the resolution is not there, say what you want about graphics, but 720p or whatever looks like crap on a big 1080p TV. However, when I run my PC to the TV @1080p everything looks great.
 
IMHO the worst case scenario is that all the big name developement companies produce console only games with no ports. In which case economics will set in and smaller independent companies who either can't afford to or don't want to create games on consoles will flourish in PC games. If there is a demand there will be a supply. Support the people who make the games and buy them, is the best thing to do.

Crysis sold over a million copies. I don't know what figures they were expecting to sell. To me Crytek and Epic probably went to a place like Piratebay and checked the total seeds and figured thats what they could have sold, which is silly.

On a side note, that Mass Effect site is blocked for me. What DRM and they planning on?
 
Chombo said:
IMHO the worst case scenario is that all the big name developement companies produce console only games with no ports. In which case economics will set in and smaller independent companies who either can't afford to or don't want to create games on consoles will flourish in PC games. If there is a demand there will be a supply. Support the people who make the games and buy them, is the best thing to do.
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exactly.... how can PC gaming end? anyone that asks that question is an idiot..... as long as there are even a few people that can program, there will be people making games...

it really is unbelievable that NOBODY out there will produce a SINGLE PC game after a certain point in the future..... only an idiot would believe that.....


and whats so bad about the mass effect copy protection? its a simple server check every 10 days that verifies the CD key.... i dont understand whats so evil or inconvenient about that.....
 
Chombo said:
On a side note, that Mass Effect site is blocked for me. What DRM and they planning on?
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From that site...

Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.
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IMO it's stupid, it won't stop me from buying it, but I'll probably download a "fixed" version and just leave the purchased one sealed in the box. Stuff like that doesn't stop pirates, annoys legit customers, and probably causes more people to pirate the game in the long run.
 
brucedeluxe169 said:
and whats so bad about the mass effect copy protection? its a simple server check every 10 days that verifies the CD key.... i dont understand whats so evil or inconvenient about that.....
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What if you don't have constant internet access? SOL.
 
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