pc gaming not dead, but a lot of games coming to the pc are.

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by BravO))), Oct 3, 2008.

  1. jnex26

    jnex26 2[H]4U

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    I agree whole heartedly, duke nukem's key demo will be PC's

    Oh and fudzilla really your going to trust a site with a name like fudzilla if duke was going to be a 360 exclusive i would say microsoft would def be making a big thing of it, especially if it's going to be ready in the next year.
     
  2. Hulk

    Hulk [H]ardness Supreme

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    i feel sorry for people who paid the full 50 bucks for such games as Diakatana, Big Rigs, Spore, etc.
     
  3. Savoy

    Savoy 2[H]4U

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    Your analogy regarding dubbing a tape or byrning a copy of a cd is NOT the same.

    The only way it would be the same is if a lot of artists/labels decided to stop making music, period. Of course that wouldn't be possible since they don't have another medium to move over too that's not only easier to program for (sell music on in this example) but has way way lower piracynrates on.


    Ya, you guys keep deluding yourselves with all the bullshit excuses as too why it's ok to steal games, have fun destroying our platform.

    The main reason these threads always get the trolls making excuses for piracy is because, as much as I love this forum, it is full of people who pirate their games. Ya that's right I said it. I bet if we did an anonymous poll we would find over 50% steal either all their games or some.

    It's cool keep stealing from tne hand that feeds you. The only way it will stop is when all the games available are all shit and not even worth a download. Grats you win.
     
  4. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    Look at what happened to the music industy because of piracy. The riaa has been getting more and more coverage of the people that they are targeting (and the riaa has actually been winning), and it won't be soon until the game industry will ask them for help. The only great thing about what happened to music is that the dustribution is now mainly online distribution. It still has its drawbacks with drm, but for the most part, it is less of a hassle to get and you don't have to worry about your computer being bogged down by limewire and other illegal means, except if you run itunes which is a piece of shit program anyway. In the future i see programs like steam being the main form of distribution of pc games, which is fine by me because I think steam is great. But until publishers get on the wagon, the problems with piracy will continue.
     
  5. TOOL1075

    TOOL1075 Gawd

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    um.... I don't think I said, anywhere in my post, that it's ok to steal games. I did, however, highlight the fact that few people feel guilty after doing it.

    You are correct on one point though- I would bet most people who play computer games, on this forum, pirate a game, here and there. Eh.

    Oh, and the word "Troll" in a forum of discussion, whether it be a BBS, news group, web-based forum like this, or whatever- is being grossly overused nowadays.

    I don't even think most people know what a fucking "Troll" is. (this is my guess, based on how people are using the term.)

    edit: yes, I see that you equated my argument to justification for piracy, instead of the guilt associated with it. I think you misunderstood my post...
     
  6. cnick79

    cnick79 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I say sabotage the console industry by pirating their games to the point where it's more profitable to distribute on the PC again. Two wrongs must make a right! -1 x -1 = +2 !!
     
  7. TOOL1075

    TOOL1075 Gawd

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    lol..... not sure if that would work

    on another point though-

    You know, are all these preachy people on this forum that cry "I never download a game or a song for free! Excuse my while I polish my halo!" from, or live in, the United States?

    I think a lot of them probably do. You guys do know, that a lot of piracy occurs outside the United States, and I'm not talking about bit torrent, guys.

    I'm talking about walking into a local computer store, and the shelves being filled with pirated games and other software applications.

    Don't think - for a second - that this problem is somehow localized, or new, in any way. It's been going on for a long time, all over the world. Russia.... China.... I mean, you guys know what goes on there with respect to software piracy, right?

    I feel like this subject has been discussed on this forum before.... like, 1,000,000,000 times.... deja vu maybe....
     
  8. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am not saying that it is a local problem. I think that it is not just the gaming community fault that piracy is a huge problem, I think that it is also the fault of the publishers for not coming together, not setting a standard, and not putting in enough time, effort, and money into fixing the problem. The only type of program that comes close to solving some of these problems is steam. All of their games run off the program with no cd required, if you lose or delete you game you can download it again, you don't need a cd key after you register it, it has a nice community setup, it has a hassle free store, and you can download mods as of late from it. Where do you guys see pc gaming going because of piracy?
     
  9. TOOL1075

    TOOL1075 Gawd

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    You touch on a point, regarding Steam, that many others have made.

    Steam is a good idea, and it seems to work. While you can obtain games that utilize Steam (HL2, etc) for free.... it is not as straight forward as pirating UT3, for example. (not to mention, you risk playing half way through the game, only to get an error and not being able to finish. it depends on the quality of the "warez" release, but you get the point.) Giving "gamers" a convenient, reliable, distribution medium that also allows the purchase of games for reasonable prices seems to be working. Deals like the Orange Box make purchasing games a much more attractive alternative, as well.

    If other companies were to come up with their own "Steam" type service, there would be bitching, as there is now. There's something to be said for going to the software/music store and unwrapping that new game and reading the manual, or unwrapping that new CD and reading the liner notes, etc. Digital distribution sometimes seems cold and dead to some people. To others, it's a wash- and they don't care.

    I'm not really sure what the solution will be. You will always be able to circumvent a copy protection/DRM/whatever. Always. Even programs that require hardware dongles, like high end CAD software, etc, can be cracked.

    I predict, as content distribution moves further into the digital realm, server-side authentication will become the defacto verification standard. You will be able to get around it, but more and more content will require the verification. Soon, you will pirate a game, and the enemies/characters will have to be dynamically updated from a web server- or nothing will be playable. Some kind of crazy shit like this is bound to happen, given the relentless back-and-forth war between SafeDisc/Starforce/SecurROM/Steam/etc/etc and simple circumvention.

    edit:

    So, I think I see your point. Treating the symptoms of a problem is really a waste of time. Treating the underlying cause is what needs to be done.

    However, there are probably multiple underlying causes (some of which have been debated endlessly). One of the causes is definitely people wanting stuff for free, and downloading games- because they won't get caught, and they don't care. (yes, I know they might care in the long run- if all the games are gone someday, but you know what I'm saying)

    Another cause is shitty games, like you said. Other causes might include people being too poor to buy a game- but I usually call bullshit on that, considering a computer is several hundred dollars, if not closer to a thousand or more. However, there is something to be said for dropping a grand on a PC, and getting thousands of dollars worth of software for free. The temptation is there, and it's so damn easy.

    I, and many others have said it before- when something can be obtained for free, without apparent or immediate consequence, it will be. People do stuff that other people don't like. Welcome to the human race lol....

    We could discuss moral implications all day, but we can't change people's behavior very easily.

    I say the best solution is great games, for decent prices. Reduce as many root causes for piracy as you can. You can't get rid of them all...

    But, as many people say, in order to make those great games at decent prices, you need software companies that don't lose all their money to piracy...

    Well, someone is gonna have to take it on the chin to make it all work out in the end, and it's gonna have to be the developers, because if not- shitty games will be even more rampant than they are today. Or, we'll have to put up with expensive games for a while. But looking back on it - games haven't really increased in price much over the years. They've always been around 30 to 50 bucks.

    I feel like I'm going in circles here. Stop making these threads, cause I can't resist the urge to jump in lol....
     
  10. SixtyWattMan

    SixtyWattMan [H]ardness Supreme

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    Big Rigs is the best game ever. I would pay $100 for it.
     
  11. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    What I think would help is that Ms creates a virtualized program like steam and use that as the standard. On top of that, charge nothing to the publishers as an incentive to get them onboard. You wouldn't have to buy it from them, but it would have to be installed, verified, and played by the program.

    Edit: And have a community corner like facebook that goes with the games you have.
     
  12. jonneymendoza

    jonneymendoza [H]ardness Supreme

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    This thread is behond a joke. more worse then mine, at least i made an effort with my opinions and since when is duke nukem not coming out on the pc?

    PC gaming is in a bad state at the moment
     
  13. cnick79

    cnick79 [H]ard|Gawd

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    All the games I want to play or interest me are on the PC. I think the PC game industry is going through a metamorphosis right now. It will evolve and in the end the way we purchase PC games and play them will be different then we are used to.
     
  14. friedchicken

    friedchicken Gawd

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    Either give the OP a break, or don't post. It maybe a topic discussed 1000 times, but have some self-control from saying posts are dumb, stupid, noob... not everyone lives on the forums and knows every thread created in the last year.

    You could have pointed to a recent thread or just answered his question. GROW UP.
     
  15. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    Thanks for the support. I think Savoy said it best. Most of the people that come in here just to say fail or epic fail are to ones that either don't care that pc gaming is heading down hill, or don't want to give up their "right" to download illegally. One other point to this topic, this also might lead to the end of net neutrality because of big companies like comcast and time warner pushing congress to allow them to filter out peoples connection of p2p sharing and other stuff of that nature. Thanks.
     
  16. Belgain Roffles

    Belgain Roffles Gawd

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    You might want to establish an argument that PC gaming is going "downhill" before accepting it as fact.

    Last time I checked, it was still a growing market as it is every year. Consoles having eclipsed the PC doesn't mean that PC gaming is over.

    Also giving up basic privacy over something like software piracy would be a pretty pathetic tradeoff. Enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts I guess. You might also want to read about "safe harbor" laws for ISPs, which essentially can be boiled down to simply saying as long as the ISP doesn't control what goes through their network, they can't be held liable for that same content. As soon as they start meddling, they lose that protection.
     
  17. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    For the sake pc gaming is going downhill, do you think publishers are less willing to release a game on the pc as opposed to a few years ago. I am not saying pc gaming will ever die, but we are not helping it thrive either.
     
  18. Savoy

    Savoy 2[H]4U

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    QFT +1
     
  19. Frostex

    Frostex 2[H]4U

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    A lot?

    What is a lot? can you name a lot of these publishers and games we'll miss out on?

    Making bad games is to blame, good games sell well despite piracy, the more developers infect PC games with console like features, and more harsh DRM the worse they will sell.

    Gears of War wasn't a good game, not by PC standards, I suppose the console fans probably loved it, but it's a pretty shallow game over all.

    Theres no signs GOW2 is going to be anything but more of the same. Everythnig Epic has produced in recent times have been cross platform developed rubbish.

    As far as I can see, only the bad developers are complaining about the PC and piracy, look at developers like Valve and they're making a boat load of money on traditional singleplayer and multiplayer games, because most of what they make is of high quality, and not consoled up to the max.

    I will continue to support good developers, all the crap ones can run off to the consoles with their tail between their legs, we don't need crap games for the PC.
     
  20. LOCO LAPTOP

    LOCO LAPTOP [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I agree. But think about Steam, It's a great system that if you would put a game on the market that developers should look at and shouldnt be saying "OMG THEY WILL DOWNLOAD IT OFF TORRENTS, AHH!" To be honest, I wouldn't care if I could use a mouse and keyboard on a ps3 or xbox360 and let the PC go but until then. Screw that.
     
  21. Michaelius

    Michaelius [H]ardness Supreme

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    You probably belive that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction too becouse US president says so right ? :)

    I got much simpler solution - buy new games for pc and used versions for console (espesially for EA games)
     
  22. Belgain Roffles

    Belgain Roffles Gawd

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    PC is missing out on a couple badly ported console games?

    EVERYBODY PANIC
     
  23. wfalcon

    wfalcon [H]ard|Gawd

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    So how many more "PC gaming is dying!!11one" threads do we have to endure? If you love your consoles, fine - but quit being the Jehovah's Witnesses of the gaming world and trying to shove your opinion down our throats.
     
  24. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    PC Gaming isn't dying. If it were really dying then ATI, NVIDIA and even Intel would be out of the graphics card market. They wouldn't try to expand their empires in a dead market.
     
  25. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    Last I can recall, I wasn't shoving my opinion down anyones throat. If you don't like the thread, you don't have to read it or post in it. So wfalcon, what is your take on piracy. And please don't call someone a Jehovah's Witness as a burn. (no i am not a jw)
     
  26. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    Plus, I said "PC GAMING NOT DEAD, but a lot of games coming to the pc are."
     
  27. Jared701

    Jared701 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I didn't read the whole thread so someone probably beat me to it..... but fail.
    Mote? are you freaking kidding me.... it word is moot.
     
  28. FloppieTheBanjoClown

    FloppieTheBanjoClown [H]Lite

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    They love to blame piracy, but every time they do they act as if every documented pirate download is a lost sale. It should be obvious that this is not the case.
     
  29. damonposey

    damonposey 2[H]4U

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    Actually, it word is 'the'. :D
     
  30. BravO)))

    BravO))) [H]ardness Supreme

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    You have some what of a point. The market has been flooded with bad games, and they wonder why it didn't sell well, they use piracy as a scapegoat. I wish pc had some bigger exclusives besides a shitty coded crysis and mmorpg's. Atleast we still have the battlefield series.
     
  31. Astral Abyss

    Astral Abyss 2[H]4U

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    Here's the Reality Check of the situation...

    A lot of games released on PC and console are not worth buying. There really is a lot of chaff out there. It always has been that way. No one wants to spend $50 on garbage. Luckily, console gamers can go rent the game first, and if it's something fun and entertaining, they may go spend the 50 bucks to buy it. If not, no harm done. PC gamers do not have that luxury of renting first. So, the only option PC gamers have (not counting subscription based games) is to either hope for a demo, which often doesn't exist, read reviews and hope someone elses opinion of the game is the same as theirs, or.... download a pirated copy of the game to see if it's worth anything.

    Now, the problem here is that, unlike renting a console game, there's nothing to return after you pirate the game and you didn't contribute to the economy in the process. So, it's left to the individual's morals or conscience to go out and buy a legit copy of the PC game if they like it and want to continute to play it. This is where the problem is always going to be until there is a mechanism in place to detect it or punish piracy.

    Part Two of the Reality Check is this....

    PC entertainment companies are trying to use illegal downloads as a 1-to-1 ratio basis for lost sales and this simply doesn't pan out. First off, most people who pirate a PC game for reasons other than trying-before-buying probably wouldn't ever have spent the money to buy a legit copy of the game to begin with. Secondly, an important overlooked fact is: how many people pirate a game, try it once or twice, hate it, and never play it again? Therefore, these people never turn around and buy a legit copy and yet are not really contributing to lost revenue because it wasn't something they liked and wouldn't have bought to begin with if a demo was made available. Third, PC software makers love to use piracy as their fall guy when a game doesn't sell well, even when the general community concensus is that the game was a real piece of junk. When I see software company spokesmen's comments about how they lost "this many sales due to piracy", I get rather annoyed because a lot of those "lost sales" would have been poor suckers who bought a game that sounded good or was hyped beyond reason, only to find out they just bought a piece of junk, poorly made, unoriginal, buggy, boring dud and just wasted $50 that the software company didn't deserve to begin with. I've done this enough times in the past 30 years to have little sympathy for game companies crying about lost revenue.

    Part Three of the Reality Check....

    These same entertainment companies crying about piracy have had over 2 decades to come up with an infrastructure, distribution, and enforcement system and yet have failed to do so. There's been a lot of money made in the gaming industry and yet a pitifully small amount of effort expended on controlling piracy. All we've really gotten out of them is a shallow imitation of the MPAAs ratings for movies, which is rarely enforced because, once again, no one really monitors it and levys fines. They know their DRM is easily bypassed. If software companies really wanted regulation and control, they'd have made their case to the government and paid, yes paid, for the support infrastructure. You know how movies have a nice FBI warning on them? Have you ever seen that on a computer game? Well, why not? I mean, really, if the gaming industry is loosing THAT MUCH in piracy, why wouldn't they get the government involved? All their dollars spent on enforcement and infrastructure would be returned to them in the form of recouped sales. Or is it that they really aren't hurting that badly and they like the unmonitored and unfettered profits they're making? Personally, I think they use piracy as a scapegoat to write off the loss as a tax break, much like the auto industry writes off billions in "losses" when they don't sell a car for retail price. (hint: it's money they never were going to get anyway, but it elimates a huge tax debt they owe)

    So anyway, that's my take on the situation. The ball is in the game industries court. They deflated it and kicked it off into a corner and then cried foul when we brough our own hardball that they didn't have the proper gear to serve back.

    (I don't support pirating and never have, but I don't buy the game industries sob story or their finger pointing either)

    Thanks for reading this :)
     
  32. bonsai

    bonsai [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've never once seen a game company claim this, only gamers and people trying to justify piracy. Studios say they have 'sales lost to piracy', but no one believes it's a 1:1 ratio.
     
  33. FloppieTheBanjoClown

    FloppieTheBanjoClown [H]Lite

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    What makes it absurd is that even what few metrics we have on piracy aren't reliable. It comes down to three things:

    1) Some pirate downloads are repeat downloads. There are plenty of reasons to download a file twice, corrupted transfers being a big one.

    2) Sometimes a person might actually have a legitimate reason to "pirate" something. If they have damaged media that is irreplaceable, the only way to play their game is to download it somewhere.

    3) A dedicated pirate--one who lacks a life--might download 15-20 games in a month. Even at $5 a game, it's obvious that most people can't afford to buy games at that rate. And those who can, can't afford the time.

    I'm not saying piracy is okay. Just because you wouldn't have bought it anyway doesn't make it okay to download it.
     
  34. Astral Abyss

    Astral Abyss 2[H]4U

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    If it's not a 1:1 ratio than you would have to agree that a percentage of the illegal downloads where not actually considered illegal by that company. Until you can show me a company that says they allow a certain number of people to legally steal their software I'm going to stick with my 1:1 ratio formula.
     
  35. bonsai

    bonsai [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ummmm..... no. I'd only have to agree that a certain percentage were actual lost sales, while the remaining percentage were people that never would have bought the game regardless, like any other sane person. It has nothing to do with a company considering illegal downloads as legal.
     
  36. Astral Abyss

    Astral Abyss 2[H]4U

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    It does, actually. Why would any business subscribe to the idea that the theft of "some" of their property is ok, for whatever reason? Is there an industry recognized formula for determining what percent of illegal downloads is acceptable? Whether or not you intended to ever buy the software has no revelence to a business or their business model, nor to copyright law. If you downloaded a game illegally, you downloaded it illegally. Peroid. There is no wiggle room in law for your feelings and motivations. Therefore, any illegal downloads can, and are, considered lost sales by software companies.

    Now, I'm not saying that's good or bad of these companies. I'm saying their lost sales numbers are exaggerated because by law they should report it, but the reality is they aren't really losing that many sales. I think you're saying that too, so we're actually on the same page. I think you just misunderstood what I was trying to explain in my long post above.
     
  37. bonsai

    bonsai [H]ard|Gawd

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    That may be true for physical merchandise but not so for digitally reproducible goods. Yes, every download is illegal, but not every download is a lost sale. That is why it falls under copyright infringement and not theft. I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree.
     
  38. SPARTAN VI

    SPARTAN VI [H]ardness Supreme

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    Stupid developers, little do they know that this PC gamer only pirates console games. :D
     
  39. FloppieTheBanjoClown

    FloppieTheBanjoClown [H]Lite

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    What we need is a series of studies to determine exactly what percentage of pirate downloads are lost sales. This sounds like a job for government funding!
     
  40. modi123

    modi123 [H]ardness Supreme

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    It was part of the 700 billion dollar bail out... Nestled right next to the 'toy arrow - wooden shaft' tax breaks. Ha.



    I wanted to point out the stumble for this thread started with the third sentence
    What about all the pirated 360 and PS3 games? I know of multiple individuals that bought a PS3 for the blue ray player only, but have cultivated (seemingly out of no where) a stack of PS3 games they didn't buy. It's not like throwing a game on a console disc makes the p1r@t3s go away.

    Just a curious question - what console game didn't make the port to PC and caused this little cry fest?