PC Games going Bye Bye

[Ethug]

I've pointed out repeatedly that the industry itself proves your theories wrong. You've given one chart, which I've addressed, repeatedly, and you've failed to address my responses to that chart.

On one side we have dozens of successful multimillion dollar businesses making a profit, on the other side, we have you telling us the industry in which they are doing so is DEAD. You tell me who I should believe.

"The next goalpost". You don't seem to be able to grasp cause and effect. These are not different ideas being presented to you, they are parts of a whole.

I don't understand how you can possibly be missing this.

You have people making profit while their industry continues to collapse...

Lower sales than 1999 even including online revenue...
Console revenue that is ripping the PC market a new asshole...

If you don't want to admit these things are happening, then you can stick your head blindly in the sand and thats fine, but to deny them is foolhardy.

We are not going to see eye to eye, which is why I'm now done with this thread.

 

[Technoob]

So tell me why Blizzard, EA, and the rest are releasing these upcoming and highly anticipated games only on the PC. You are obviously more in tune with the industry than they are.

They should hire you as a consultant to flee this dead industry where no profits are to be had.

 

[Conker]

PC games have longer lasting playability than console games. Many people still play call of duty 1 halflife 1 and medal of honor allied assualt and wolfienstien ET and all those games. Its up to the makers to make expansions to those titles or something to keep those sales coming in.

Basically in the pc arena. Everyone knows if a game is good or not so if its not a good games it won't come to the pc. Gears of war and loads of good games are coming. Its just only the good ones come to the pc. Crappy games never sell good on the pc.

The games usually always have to be good to sell. In the pc arena its either hit or a miss. Its not like a console game where some kid looks at the picture and says it looks like a good game without even looking at the reviews. PC gaming will never die either. If pc gaming dies then graphics hardware will come to a hault for the consoles in the next gen. It'll never die since the market is still there and if theres a market then theres money to be made.

Blizzard makes some good games and they've sold millions of copies of their games. On the pc if your games suck it won't sell period lol. Thats why companies have betas and all that to get information from everyone to know what to add and all that. Pretty sure the quake wars will end up being a pretty good game at the end. Its just the way it is in this industry

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

"The next goalpost". You don't seem to be able to grasp cause and effect. These are not different ideas being presented to you, they are parts of a whole.

I don't understand how you can possibly be missing this.

You have people making profit while their industry continues to collapse...

Lower sales than 1999 even including online revenue...
Console revenue that is ripping the PC market a new asshole...

If you don't want to admit these things are happening, then you can stick your head blindly in the sand and thats fine, but to deny them is foolhardy.

We are not going to see eye to eye, which is why I'm now done with this thread.

Every single one of your posts follows this forumulae:

1. Make an obtuse "point" that has been addressed
2. Accuse every one of what you just did.

Seriously. Listen. The PC industry still generates over a billion dollars a year. It's not a good as 99, no, but I have already pointed out reasons why that might be though you ignored me. It's down, yes but it's leveling off. There are and still will be companies who want a piece of that billion dollars. As long as there are customers, developers will be there to get a piece of the action.

Licensing and developing a game for three different consoles is expensive. In addition to genres that can only be feasibly realized on the PC, things like FPSs are have a ton of competition on consoles. A good blockbuster PC game can still bring in a lot of revenue, and establish a franchise, something many a deserving game can have trouble with in the console world.

Make no mistake where there is over a billion dollars to be made, people will be there to make it, especially in a crowded market liek the game industry.

 

[Netrat33]

No you have reading comprehesion problems when your being pointed out how wrong you are. I commented on your "why is ther only one game" comment being completely false.

Once again as you keep repeating in your thread posts: Ignoring evidence and points

Why don't you enlighten us all on how I COMPLETELY missed your point like you keep doing?

And you still haven't pointed out how I COMPLETELY missed your point. Like I said you kept ignoring many facts presented too you.

 

[Netrat33]

I just have a hard time with how everything on this forum becomes a hate filled shit slinging fest when you present facts and detailed arguements. Some of you might not want the facts to be the way they are, but that does not change them.

As a summary (since the new people apparently didn't bother to read the earlier pages)
http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=15831
http://www.answers.com/topic/decline-of-pc-game-sales-in-the-us

From Answers.com that you posted:

2006 marked the first increase in retail PC game sales since 1999, up almost 2% from the previous year. Note that these sums do not include (unless stated) the concurrent revenue from MMORPG subscriptions and sales via digital delivery, market segments that have been achieving significant annual gains

Which is what so many people keep telling you also but you keep ignoring.

You have information here showing that Consoles are stomping the living shit out of PCs. You can add several hundred million to the PC side of things if it makes you feel better, because you still are not approaching console revenue.

Not everyone who owns a PC is going to buy a ton of games. And a gamer owning a PC and maybe a game console splits many people income to a more limited gaming priorities. That doesn't mean that person isn't buying PC games either.

The problem with subscriptions to things like WoW that so many of you want to dredge up, is that you have what, 8.5 million people playing it for years. This is 8.5 million people who would have spent money buying other pc titles.

Says who? How do you konw what they want to buy? How do you know how much gaming they do in general, or if they are even new to the whole pc gaming in general? MAYBe they would have spent that money on a console game. Shit now WoW is hurting consoles! You talk about facts yet present "what ifs?"

Its filling the bank for one company, while other, smaller developers bring titles to market that sit on the shelf and die. Then that developer dies, or turns to console development.

That doesn't insure any sucess for any company. Smaller developers will have that same problem on a console too. You know why? they are smaller! Sony, not a small company right? God of war finally sold about a million copies FINALLY about 3-4 months ago. It's not a system seller but its a good game.

 

[Ethug]

So tell me why Blizzard, EA, and the rest are releasing these upcoming and highly anticipated games only on the PC. You are obviously more in tune with the industry than they are.

They should hire you as a consultant to flee this dead industry where no profits are to be had.

Dying takes awhile, as the decline since 99 shows. I never said it was overnight, you've simply tried your best to put that in my mouth.

Seriously. Listen. The PC industry still generates over a billion dollars a year. It's not a good as 99, no, but I have already pointed out reasons why that might be though you ignored me. It's down, yes but it's leveling off.

Vs. the 7 billion in the console industry. Lets see, by your own reasoning, they are 7 times as likely to try the console industry.

And you still haven't pointed out how I COMPLETELY missed your point. Like I said you kept ignoring many facts presented too you.

You tried to use $600 videocards against me when I clearly pointed out how absurd and market niche that was. So Crysis sells a million or two copies in its shelf life to the niche of people who can afford $600 video cards, so WHAT? God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH. Time to wake up!

Which is what so many people keep telling you also but you keep ignoring.

I haven't ignored this and have in fact addressed it MULTIPLE times. Perhaps you should pay more attention.

Says who? How do you konw what they want to buy? How do you know how much gaming they do in general, or if they are even new to the whole pc gaming in general? MAYBe they would have spent that money on a console game. Shit now WoW is hurting consoles! You talk about facts yet present "what ifs?"

Quite simply, the numbers reflect tremendous growth in consoles with a drop in PC sales. It doesn't take an rocket scientist to figure it out. You can sit and fumble all you want here, my assertions are based on the sales, which tell their own story.

Sony, not a small company right? God of war finally sold about a million copies FINALLY about 3-4 months ago. It's not a system seller but its a good game.

You're actually COMPLETELY WRONG there. With Sony's systems games become "greatest hits" when they reach the million copies sold milestone. Its been a cornerstone of how Sony keeps interest and sales going since PS1 . God of War I hit Greatest Hit status in March of 2006.
Heres the press release:
http://www.us.playstation.com/News/PressReleases/328 March 1st 2006. It was originally released 3/22/05, btw.
It was both a critical and financial success.
Also, as stated above somewhere, God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH, so you might want to think twice before saying "well, maybe I was thinking about GoW II"

I'm going to dig around for a bit and if I can find it again, I'll show all the number of Console games that hit a million a year vs. the number of pc games that hit a million a year, and then I'll have a nice laugh at your expense, since so many of you want to turn this into a pissing contest

 

[Capfarland]

So let me get this straight, PC gaming is dying because GAMESTOP doesn't carry pc games? I think you must live under a rock because Gamestop has never carried PC games.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

Vs. the 7 billion in the console industry. Lets see, by your own reasoning, they are 7 times as likely to try the console industry.

Um... Duh! What part of "becoming a niche" did you not understand?

There are and still will be companies who want a piece of that billion dollars. As long as there are customers, developers will be there to get a piece of the action.

A billion dollars is a billion dollars that is not going to have it's back turned on it, because like I said before, the industry is decently saturated, and has plenty of competition. Consoles require a lot of cash up front to really have a chance of doing well, or even get published. But I already went over this.

Look, how about this. Either you do what you said you were going to do here,

I'm now done with this thread.

or just keep posting this:

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WORD "NICHE" MEANS!

 

[dj_2004]

We are not going to see eye to eye, which is why I'm now done with this thread.

Hmm...

 

[Technoob]

Dying takes awhile, as the decline since 99 shows. I never said it was overnight, you've simply tried your best to put that in my mouth.



Vs. the 7 billion in the console industry. Lets see, by your own reasoning, they are 7 times as likely to try the console industry.



You tried to use $600 videocards against me when I clearly pointed out how absurd and market niche that was. So Crysis sells a million or two copies in its shelf life to the niche of people who can afford $600 video cards, so WHAT? God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH. Time to wake up!




I haven't ignored this and have in fact addressed it MULTIPLE times. Perhaps you should pay more attention.



Quite simply, the numbers reflect tremendous growth in consoles with a drop in PC sales. It doesn't take an rocket scientist to figure it out. You can sit and fumble all you want here, my assertions are based on the sales, which tell their own story.




You're actually COMPLETELY WRONG there. With Sony's systems games become "greatest hits" when they reach the million copies sold milestone. Its been a cornerstone of how Sony keeps interest and sales going since PS1 . God of War I hit Greatest Hit status in March of 2006.
Heres the press release:
http://www.us.playstation.com/News/PressReleases/328 March 1st 2006. It was originally released 3/22/05, btw.
It was both a critical and financial success.
Also, as stated above somewhere, God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH, so you might want to think twice before saying "well, maybe I was thinking about GoW II"

I'm going to dig around for a bit and if I can find it again, I'll show all the number of Console games that hit a million a year vs. the number of pc games that hit a million a year, and then I'll have a nice laugh at your expense, since so many of you want to turn this into a pissing contest

Maybe you can promise for a third time to leave this thread, since the first two didn't work too well. Personally I hope you stay...the more you talk, the more you discredit your own foolish statements.

The first time you just wrote it, the second time you underlined it...for this next hissy fit "i'm leaving the thread" footstomp, I'd go with bold, larger text.

 

[Ethug]

Um... Duh! What part of "becoming a niche" did you not understand?



A billion dollars is a billion dollars that is not going to have it's back turned on it, because like I said before, the industry is decently saturated, and has plenty of competition. Consoles require a lot of cash up front to really have a chance of doing well, or even get published. But I already went over this.

Look, how about this. Either you do what you said you were going to do here,

oh, the bitterness. So now you're proudly proclaiming that PC will be a niche...
From a couple billion a year into little of nothing eventually. The semantics of not calling it "market death" are funny with you people. A couple of games a year and "its not dead yet!"
When we get there, (and we will) guess who will be smiling?

 

[Ethug]

So let me get this straight, PC gaming is dying because GAMESTOP doesn't carry pc games? I think you must live under a rock because Gamestop has never carried PC games.

SOME of their B&M stores didn't, but as you can clearly see...
http://www.gamestop.com/default.asp?sect=2
Their B&M stores might not now company wide, but they did in the past.
My main comment was EB however, as it was what I had run.

And I never said PC gaming was dying JUST BECAUSE those places no longer carry the games in store...its in indicator of the state of PC games. Amazing how I can post the same thing so many times and people can take it and twist it endlessly into something which doesn't at all reflect what was originally said.

 

[Ethug]

Maybe you can promise for a third time to leave this thread, since the first two didn't work too well. Personally I hope you stay...the more you talk, the more you discredit your own foolish statements.

The first time you just wrote it, the second time you underlined it...for this next hissy fit "i'm leaving the thread" footstomp, I'd go with bold, larger text.

Actually the more I talk the more I correct other people, as with the other guys God of War statement. I find it amusing that I can correct so many of you in a supposed gaming forum.

 

[Gorankar]

Vs. the 7 billion in the console industry. Lets see, by your own reasoning, they are 7 times as likely to try the console industry.

Vs. the ENTIRE console industry, including the hand helds like PSP and GB and DS.. It is NO more expensive to port from console to pc than it is to port from one console to another..
So 7 times as likley seems a stretch..
..

 

[Technoob]

oh, the bitterness. So now you're proudly proclaiming that PC will be a niche...
From a couple billion a year into little of nothing eventually. The semantics of not calling it "market death" are funny with you people. A couple of games a year and "its not dead yet!"
When we get there, (and we will) guess who will be smiling?

So now you've changed your story, and its not a dead industry...its just dying.

Funny how so many companies are reaping profits off this dying industry. The very definition of a profitable industry is one that's....turning profits.

Now your argument has changed to be "yeah, well its a profitable industry, but its a niche lol and its not as big as it used to be."

ok....too bad that's not at all what you've been saying for these 9 pages...in which you've stomped your feet like a 5 year old and promised you'd leave twice now.

 

[Netrat33]

Dying takes awhile, as the decline since 99 shows. I never said it was overnight, you've simply tried your best to put that in my mouth.

Yet by your sources it also stopped declining and actually shot up right? And that's not including digital distribution.

You tried to use $600 videocards against me when I clearly pointed out how absurd and market niche that was. So Crysis sells a million or two copies in its shelf life to the niche of people who can afford $600 video cards, so WHAT? God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH. Time to wake up!

No. You GRASPED onto just that part without finishing the rest of my post.

YOU already stated that the $600 video card market is meaningless. Don't bring it into your own arguments

I'm like a broken record now
Sorry if you don't care about Hellgate London
Sorry if you don't care about Quake Wars
Sorry if you don't care about The yada yada yada.
more more more

You're trying to make it as if only a niche market of gamers ($600 crowd) are the only ones who game and that Crysis is all they have coming for them. I pointed out other games. Don't try to come off as only one game justifies PC "niche" gamers.

I haven't ignored this and have in fact addressed it MULTIPLE times. Perhaps you should pay more attention.

no actually you have. That's the problem. Your article states: digital distrubtion not accounted for. 2005 had $953 million (38 million) [5] + $344 million digital sales [6]. I dunno but seems to have leveled off nicely. And that's not updating digital sales for 2006 which had retail sales better than 2005. You're IGNORING.

You're actually COMPLETELY WRONG there. With Sony's systems games become "greatest hits" when they reach the million copies sold milestone. Its been a cornerstone of how Sony keeps interest and sales going since PS1 . God of War I hit Greatest Hit status in March of 2006.
Heres the press release:
http://www.us.playstation.com/News/PressReleases/328 March 1st 2006. It was originally released 3/22/05, btw.
It was both a critical and financial success.
Also, as stated above somewhere, God of War II did over 800,000 copies in its first MONTH, so you might want to think twice before saying "well, maybe I was thinking about GoW II"

....opps Well the numbers aren't as crazy as everyone normally thinks it would be. I know that's the who-ha about. That I messed up on though.

 

[Netrat33]

Actually the more I talk the more I correct other people, as with the other guys God of War statement. I find it amusing that I can correct so many of you in a supposed gaming forum.

See the bigger man can admit his own mistakes. You haven't corrected so many of us.

*laughing*

but dude...YOU TAKE THAT VICTORY AND RUN WITH IT!!

 

[Ethug]

So now you've changed your story, and its not a dead industry...its just dying.

Funny how so many companies are reaping profits off this dying industry. The very definition of a profitable industry is one that's....turning profits.

Now your argument has changed to be "yeah, well its a profitable industry, but its a niche lol and its not as big as it used to be."

ok....too bad that's not at all what you've been saying for these 9 pages...in which you've stomped your feet like a 5 year old and promised you'd leave twice now.

My comments have always reflected the slow death of the industry from 1999. Only a fool would believe things were going to disappear over night, but it is happening and will continue to happen. What is hard to understand about that? You can't warp the content of my posts by saying they were something they weren't kid.

 

[Technoob]

Actually the more I talk the more I correct other people, as with the other guys God of War statement. I find it amusing that I can correct so many of you in a supposed gaming forum.

You've repeatedly exposed your anti PC bias, your inability to understand the industry, economics, the numbers you yourself have posted, and many other things, that's why I'm so glad you didn't leave. I could read ten more pages of this.

 

[Ethug]

(lots of snipped blah blah blah)
no actually you have. That's the problem. Your article states: digital distrubtion not accounted for. 2005 had $953 million (38 million) [5] + $344 million digital sales [6]. I dunno but seems to have leveled off nicely. And that's not updating digital sales for 2006 which had retail sales better than 2005. You're IGNORING.

....opps Well the numbers aren't as crazy as everyone normally thinks it would be. I know that's the who-ha about. That I messed up on though.

well, no, I'm not ignoring it and never have. I've stated multiple times (which I'm too lazy to go clip) that you can add your several hundred million from digital distribution in and it STILL doesn't get anywhere near the numbers from 1999, in which there was a lot smaller pc market.

It keeps coming back to that:
a much smaller market in 1999 made tremendously more money than in 2006, even adding in hundreds of millions in digital distribution.

 

[Ethug]

You've repeatedly exposed your anti PC bias, your inability to understand the industry, economics, the numbers you yourself have posted, and many other things, that's why I'm so glad you didn't leave. I could read ten more pages of this.

I have no anti-pc bias. I played a huge array of PC titles for a great number of years. I really don't care if you believe it or not. Your insistance that I'm lying for some reason only shows how pathetic your debate skills are.

You keept saying I somehow am lacking understanding of these things, yet you have never posted a single link contradicting my arguements with facts. You should stop babbling and learn to listen.

 

[Netrat33]

It keeps coming back to that:
a much smaller market in 1999 made tremendously more money than in 2006, even adding in hundreds of millions in digital distribution.

YES we all know that. It's also basically leveled off since 2003 due to digital distrubtion. There IS more competition now. And Just like the whole Sony vs MS in the console market (who will win in those two) they have their own hits and wins. PC though gets lumped into that

Edit: Wait smaller PC market? how do you know? I don't know the numbers of how many pc gamers vs today gamers physically playing games.

 

[Ethug]

YES we all know that. It's also basically leveled off since 2003 due to digital distrubtion. There IS more competition now. And Just like the whole Sony vs MS in the console market (who will win in those two) they have their own hits and wins. PC though gets lumped into that.

But the console arena hasn't leveled off, its continued to grow. Why haven't PCs done the same?

 

[Technoob]

Let us know when your consulting firm goes online. You can advise all of those companies making hundreds of millions of dollars on PC games that they have made a grave error in economic judgment.

 

[Netrat33]

But the console arena hasn't leveled off, its continued to grow. Why haven't PCs done the same?

Cuz yes unfortunately there have been problems in the PC world where so many things aren't being standardized. So yes, growth isn't as ideal. But like I said too, to lump 3 systems (xbox, ps2, gamecube) what are the numbers for just the PS2, just the xbox, just the cube. Now mix in 360, Wii, PS3. They have to compete software against each other and the PC.

 

[Ethug]

Let us know when your consulting firm goes online. You can advise all of those companies making hundreds of millions of dollars on PC games that they have made a grave error in economic judgment.

You've made this same horribly weak comment like 6 different times now. Thats just sad dude.

 

[Technoob]

But the console arena hasn't leveled off, its continued to grow. Why haven't PCs done the same?

I already asked you this question, which you conveniently ignored: How does the fact that console sales have risen lead you to the conclusion that a different market has now died? This is not a zero-sum economic pie.

 

[Technoob]

You've made this same horribly weak comment like 6 different times now. Thats just sad dude.

If you had any response, you would have made it by now. The fact that you cannot explain the enormous profitability of a supposedly dead industry makes your repeated commentary laughable at best.

 

[Ethug]

If you had any response, you would have made it by now. The fact that you cannot explain the enormous profitability of a supposedly dead industry makes your repeated commentary laughable at best.

People like Netrat33 have to be embarassed that you're on his "side", seriously. Here you are again insisting that I haven't answered your comment when I have multiple times, in multiple ways. This is the equivalent of you putting your hands over your ears and screaming "NYAH NYAH NYAH!"

 

[Technoob]

People like Netrat33 have to be embarassed that you're on his "side", seriously. Here you are again insisting that I haven't answered your comment when I have multiple times, in multiple ways. This is the equivalent of you putting your hands over your ears and screaming "NYAH NYAH NYAH!"

No really, point me to the response where you explain how your analysis beats all of best estimates and decision making of the financial folks at EA, Blizzard, and so forth. I'd love to read it. You haven't made a single point yet explaining this enormous fallacy.

 

[Ethug]

No really, point me to the response where you explain how your analysis beats all of best estimates and decision making of the financial folks at EA, Blizzard, and so forth. I'd love to read it. You haven't made a single point yet explaining this enormous fallacy.

I believe the whole "recession of revenue since 1999" rather much covers that.
Some of those companies are of course making money hand over fist with things like WoW, but I've already described how thats bad for the rest of the industry in general.

You either aren't paying attention or lack the capability to put these things together as they are given to you. I have the feeling I can't help you either way.

It should be noted that the easily larger of the two you mentioned, EA, is MUCH more dedicated to the console space than the PC. Are you missing this little tidbit?

 

[Technoob]

I believe the whole "recession of revenue since 1999" rather much covers that.
Some of those companies are of course making money hand over fist with things like WoW, but I've already described how thats bad for the rest of the industry in general.

You either aren't paying attention or lack the capability to put these things together as they are given to you. I have the feeling I can't help you either way.

EA publishes many pc games, including some up and coming hits like Crysis. Thanks though, captain obvious, for pointing out that they develop many console games. Nobody knew that...

No, you've stated an opinion, that was completely illogical, that the MMO 1. shouldn't be included in revenues, and 2. is somehow bad for the industry. Neither of which are relevant at all to the question.

I like it though...the dying industry is making money as you say "hand over fist". Oh the humanity.

 

[Technoob]

I believe the whole "recession of revenue since 1999" rather much covers that.
Some of those companies are of course making money hand over fist with things like WoW, but I've already described how thats bad for the rest of the industry in general.

You either aren't paying attention or lack the capability to put these things together as they are given to you. I have the feeling I can't help you either way.

It should be noted that the easily larger of the two you mentioned, EA, is MUCH more dedicated to the console space than the PC. Are you missing this little tidbit?

As embroiled as they are in the console industry, shouldn't they know what you do: that they shouldn't be investing money in a dead industry? You ought to call them asap.

 

[Ethug]

EA publishes many pc games, including some up and coming hits like Crysis. Thanks though, captain obvious, for pointing out that they develop many console games. Nobody knew that...

No, you've stated an opinion, that was completely illogical, that the MMO 1. shouldn't be included in revenues, and 2. is somehow bad for the industry. Neither of which are relevant at all to the question.

I like it though...the dying industry is making money as you say "hand over fist". Oh the humanity.

No, actually I said "Some of those companies", not "the Industry". I've qualified this statement many times in this thread.

 

[Capfarland]

Using Gamestop as your prime example is just weak, they make most of their profits off of trades so of course they are not going to be a big market for PC games.

As for best buy, the ones I have been to still carried PC games. I also think with the addition of digital distribution on top of places like Wal-mart, fry's...etc companies are seeing more profits and it's becoming less of a risk to develop PC games...

 

[Technoob]

No, actually I said "Some of those companies", not "the Industry". I've qualified this statement many times in this thread.

And the rest....I guess they're losing money then right?

 

[Ethug]

And the rest....I guess they're losing money then right?

Now that depends on all kinds of internal information I have no insight into, doesn't it? Whats their profit magin/development cycle/how many games per platform are they doing/ what was their last fiscal year like/etc etc etc
Undoubtably, a good many are.

 

[spaceman]

Mod hasn't locked this yet?

Anyway, it is quality over quantity nowadays. PC games need to be multiplayer capable to help fight piracy. ALso, it is important to not suck. I believe the reason there are fewer PC game companies is that those whom have succeeded have gathered in the smaller companies. PC gaming isn't dead it's evolving as is everything. Consoles can't upgrade every year like a PC can and there will always be plenty of people who want the best gaming has to offer.

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

oh, the bitterness. So now you're proudly proclaiming that PC will be a niche...
From a couple billion a year into little of nothing eventually. The semantics of not calling it "market death" are funny with you people. A couple of games a year and "its not dead yet!"
When we get there, (and we will) guess who will be smiling?

Smaller, but far from gone is different from dieing. Dieing implies that people will soon stop making games. You have no way to prove weather the market got just smaller or is indeed dieing.

Besides, I'm not bitter. Normally I would never have given this thread a second look, I just wanted to mess with you because of your hypocritical attitude. People who are as sure of themselves as you can never be convinced of anything, so there's no real point in trying.