Overclocking the Intel 8600K - Delidded on Air and Water @ [H]

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by FrgMstr, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,355
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Overclocking the Intel 8600K - Delidded on Air and Water

    We've gotten to spend some quality time with our Intel Core i5-8600K Coffee Lake CPU, and of course we have spent our time finding out just how far we could push the processor's clock under both Air Cooling and Water Cooling. We relid and delid as well. The results look to be very promising for the overclocking enthusiast and gamer.
     
  2. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

    Messages:
    19,067
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Thank you for kicking Intel in the nuts over their bullshit practice of substituting crap paste in place of the tried and true Indium solder previously used.
     
    Dayaks, FrgMstr, AceGoober and 3 others like this.
  3. Gideon

    Gideon 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,303
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Nice overclock on that chip. Such a shame one has to delid it tho to get decent temps.
     
    DrezKill and rpjkw12 like this.
  4. JosiahBradley

    JosiahBradley [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,720
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Nice article. I like the comparisons between each angel as more variables is always better but we know it is more time consuming so thank you for your time. Also I liked watching the youtube videos as well as they were not basic "articles" but actual real life work, like using a plastic razor blade which is very insightful. Knowing me I'd drop 300$ on a CPU and kill the thing trying to use a metal razor blade. Basically your time is my money saved.
     
    FrgMstr likes this.
  5. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

    Messages:
    10,960
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Nice review. I think 8600k will be my next CPU.

    I kinda regret going 7700k on the last go round -- may as well have just gone 7600k since I run my 7700k with HT off anyway - and that's delidded with Cool Labs TIM. HT is a bunch of extra heat and doesn't do shit for my particular workloads.
     
    Jza likes this.
  6. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,355
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    I got about a good of a chance of buying one as your do. :(

    As far as that goes, this 8600K is on loan to me. Not sure what they will think of it when they get it back and see all that red rtv on it. LOL!
     
    Dayaks, Riccochet, phillyboy and 9 others like this.
  7. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,257
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Good work. Lower temperatures mean less noise and that's really important to me.

    Could you elaborate on your choice of replacement compound? Threadripper uses an Indium solder and pure Indium has a thermal conductivity of 86 W/(m-K). Check out this list of the various compounds. Indeed, I'm surprised PK-1's thermal conductivity is so much lower than pure aluminium.
     
  8. ecktt

    ecktt Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    415
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Thanks for the article. This Z-high issue is pretty crappy. I still find it hard to rip up a 200+ usd part to void the warranty and possibly hose the part. I have no problems lapping though.

    "So while again this is not a "fully" stable overclock by our definition, it was certainly far from unstable."
     
    FrgMstr likes this.
  9. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

    Messages:
    48,355
    Joined:
    May 18, 1997
    Ask me an actual question and I will answer.
     
    ccityinstaller likes this.
  10. owcraftsman

    owcraftsman Gawd

    Messages:
    822
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2007
    I see the delid tool you linked to in your article is unavailable so no price listed. I wonder what the cost of a Der8auer you linked to is?

    I've been deliding since the 3700k as a matter of course. The 6700k and 7700k I rented a device from performance PCS total out of pocket I think was 15 bucks. It was also great at reliding.
    I use J-B Weld 31319 Black RTV to reseal and even leave that little gap in sealant that Intel has from the factory. Also, that gap is the best place to start with the razor blade only technique.
    If you are careful and cleanup nicely you honestly can't tell it's been delidded. I'd go as far to say I could get warranty without being detected.
    I use denatured alcohol for cleanup which is good for silicone but you must get it before it cures.
     
  11. Teenyman45

    Teenyman45 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,328
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Based on the performance change from a metal tim, it definitely seems like if Intel had gone with solder rather than extra-cheap tim they could have sold the chips with an extra 200-300MHz base clock and a peak turbo 100-200MHz higher. Wonder how much that will cost them in lost sales over the life of the product line?
     
    Jza, rpjkw12, SpeedyVV and 1 other person like this.
  12. Burticus

    Burticus 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    4,040
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Good article Kyle.

    Noticed this... maybe you meant "unstable" (near the end by the Bottom Line)?

    "So while again this is not a "fully" stable overclock by our definition, it was certainly far from stable."
     
    FrgMstr likes this.
  13. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    15,157
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2005
    I wonder if this is going to be able to be silently cooled with the delidding and direct cooled.

    8600k would be enough for my needs but the 8700k is nice too. Those temp drops are fairly drastic.
     
  14. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    11,661
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2003
    Fricking awesome to see the overclock on these holding up on air. Great job!
     
    DrezKill likes this.
  15. Chimpee

    Chimpee [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,451
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2015
    NIce, I feel like CoffeeLake is what KabyLake suppose to be.
     
  16. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    12,558
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2006
    First off, thanks fort he overclock tests guys. This may entice some people too take the plunge.

    I know you guys like to complain about TIM, but the stuff Intel is shipping on these CPUs is much more capable than the shit they used on 1st-gen Haswell.

    You can get under 70C stock at 5 GHz with an affordable aircooler.

    Then you jump up to a $350 watercooler required to get you to 5.2 GHz. You know, totally worth spending $300 more for a 4% performance improvement?

    BUT THE REALIITY IS, you can achieve 5.2 with a water cooler on stock TIM. 76C is perfectly acceptable from an "unrealistic" load like Prime, and water cooling means the rest of the system doesn't affect your temps.

    So why bitch about hitting thermal limits, when the core is simultaneously hitting frequency limits? They obviously designed this stuff for the full range of frequencies, and not stock speeds (like Haswell v1)
     
  17. DarkStryke

    DarkStryke [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,391
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2001
    7700k seems like a giant lemon release at this point. Runs hot even with HT off, shit TIM, quickly EOL'd platform, more examples of fucked up temperature spikes than I've ever seen for a processor gen and nothing really impressive on the OC front. Kind of summed up how lax Intel had become with little in the way of competition.
     
  18. Calavaro

    Calavaro Whiskey & Honey

    Messages:
    8,117
    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2001
    So, Intel is intentionally gimping their CPU's to have some more room for the next generation, without having to improve their architecture or IPC.
    This tells me Intel is up shits creek as they have nothing new to show. They seem to be simply incapable of producing anything better that what we have now. Last time Intel fucked up like they are fucking up now, we got Pentium 4's, and that didn't turn out so well for Intel...

    Seems the "next gen" CPU's will be the same architecture, with bumped clocks and probably a better TIM to lower temps.

    Can we finally call this the lost decade?
     
  19. HoffY

    HoffY Gawd

    Messages:
    938
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Actually it just came to me. Perhaps this is intel's plan all along. Get everyone used to the performance of SH-TIM and then when they've hit the MHz wall with relase after release of 100MHz differences... milked everyone from the mainstream to the "enthusiast" CPU dollars then change out the TIM to the good stuff and gain another three or four 100MHz bumps keeping the thermal outputs within range for the next few years of "new" CPU releases...

    EDIT: oops looks like Cal just beat me
     
  20. Fixall

    Fixall [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,361
    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    When did Intel stop sending [H] CPUs to sample? And wtf!?

    I knew AMD got all butt hurt about a couple articles that were too truthful, and had stopped sending you GPUs... I hadn't heard anything about Intel though.
     
  21. SpeedyVV

    SpeedyVV [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,212
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    Intel: we want the truth!
    [H]ard: you can't handle the truth!

    Great article once again. Makes me want to get a CL, just so I can delid.
     
  22. davethehedgehog

    davethehedgehog Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    195
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2017
    Not much point if you can't buy them anywhere. There's zero for sale in the UK. Stupid thing is, they're the same prices as the 7700's, so there's no way I'm going to buy a 4 core when I should be able to buy a 6. They need to drop the prices of the 7700's to make it worth buying them.

    I'm wanting to buy a couple of multicore processors for two vmware hosts I'm building. I'd like to go with an Ryzen to be honest, more cores for cheaper, but I need ITX with two nic's on board and the selection is shocking. And no thin coolers that can fit in a 1U case
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  23. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,645
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    So no IPC improvement and a whopping 4% more oc headroom vs. previous generation? Basically just more cores. I hope AMD's Ryzen refresh isn't this lame.
     
  24. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

    Messages:
    18,641
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    You do know that Coffee Lake is still based on the Skylake architecture, right?
     
  25. RogueTadhg

    RogueTadhg [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,527
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    I think Intel might be feeling the AMD heat -- But also Intel built up such a long-time no competition streak that they can feel relaxed about it.
     
  26. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,645
    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2003
    I don't think 'based on' is the right term. Based on would imply they changed/improved it somehow.
     
    Dudhunter likes this.
  27. SpeedyVV

    SpeedyVV [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,212
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    I was told by Scan that a new shipment of 8700Ks will arrive Nov 1st... Who knows!
     
  28. Jza

    Jza [H]Lite

    Messages:
    87
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    First off to Kyle. Thank you again for covering the stuff meticulous and picky folk like myself want to see. I watched your Coffee Lake Relid & Delid videos on your youtube channel and shared them with my tech friends. I didn't see them linked from the website oddly, maybe I missed those posts. I knew once you wrapped up testing you'd put an article up and as usual, didn't disappoint.

    As a recovering former overclocker of both CPUs and GPUs (pencil trick and all), my main concern these days are stability and ease of maintenance. I run an old LGA 1366 I got from someone. It sits in a Shuttle SFF case and it got so hot, I just run it with 2 cores disabled and I disable HT. I also cut a 120mm hole in the top. I can finally run it without having to freeze the room or have super speedy fans that are noisy and annoying. Also no longer have to worry about throttling.

    Low TDP cpus like those found in Intel NUCs are a godsend. No need for a fan as they generate so little heat. No fan = way less dust buildup on the units ventilation. So all this testing you do for us at HardOCP really saves me time and illustrates that even on high end CPUs there's huge improvement in thermals by "helping" Intel complete their QA on their processors. I wanted to get a Kaby Lake, but life is kicking my ass. Wanted to try a Coffee Lake, but life is still kicking my ass. As a life long user of AMD products since they were slotted as well, I wanted to try Intel, BUT ONLY if I had a fast and QUIET machine like all of my Athlons were. So it's either Coffee Lake using the knowledge you've gained for me through your testing, or I just say F-Intel and go with AMD who have always been good for me and seem to do things the right way if that makes any sense.

    Yep, this post is just a very long-winded thank you. So... Thanks!
     
    FrgMstr likes this.
  29. Jza

    Jza [H]Lite

    Messages:
    87
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Off topic - delete if necessary, just wanted you to read this Kyle.

    Also if I may give 1 critique of HardOCP that has irked me for some time. I've been visiting this site for a LONG time, well before I got on the forum. HardOCP should have a million subscribers on Youtube. JayzTwoCents, Linus, and all the rest are great and informative channels, but HardOCP was doing this stuff since the stone age. You guys should be getting revenue from Youtube like those guys are. I know how you guys are... you won't shill for anyone. Intel, NVIDIA, you name it, they've all probably been steamed with you at one time or another because you call it how you see it. But I'm sad to see that HardOCP (and TPU) are not huge influences on Youtube as I think they should be. Either way I appreciate the absolute lack of bias at this website. Now back to being the lurking HardOCP reader I am hehe.
     
    Jaquile likes this.
  30. jhatfie

    jhatfie [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,453
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Thanks for the article! Seeing the results almost makes me want to delid my 7820X in order to tame the temps. Almost.
     
    Jza likes this.
  31. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    2,043
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2010
    Thanks for the temp comparisons of the stock vs modified tim. It's always better to get a slightly improved thermal profile, but unfortunately pushing from 5.1 to 5.2 ghz doesn't really yield a noticeable bump in performance. However seeing 10c or more reduction in temps is quite advantageous. As I think was mentioned in an earlier article, some of the same testing on their 18 core part would certainly yield even more substantial improvements. I wonder how satisfying that 'CLICK' of delidding a 2k$ cpu must sound. . .
     
    Jza likes this.
  32. Fleat

    Fleat Gawd

    Messages:
    958
    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2005
    Thanks for the fun article. It is dangerous though; you are making me want to pick up an 8600k (when they become available) to play around with.
     
    AceGoober and FrgMstr like this.
  33. Pyro411

    Pyro411 [H]Lite

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    I gotta say, it's starting to make me want to pick up the i7-8700K to replace my i7-4790k system, however the sticker shock is a hard bullet to bite...

    For those complaining about Intel moving away from solder, I heard a reasonable sounding reason on why they didn't use solder is as follows...
    With the shrinking size & the footprint of what's actually generating the heat, they're at a point that they believe with the constant hot/cold cycles it'll break away basically leaving the cores disconnected from the heat spreader & on towards thermal death it'll go.
     
  34. ole-m

    ole-m Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    451
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2015
    aaand the 400W cpu's from IBM is still going strong with hot\cold loads on and off going between 10-80C... 10 years later...
    I really ain't buying any anti solder arguments.
    I have to replace the TIM on gtx970's at times (especially well oc'd) 290x's cause it ages.. 3-5 year lifespan of a cpu and then you have to delid?
    longevity in my experience is always better with solder.
     
    HoffY, noko and FrgMstr like this.
  35. noko

    noko [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,342
    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    hmm, I never thought that the CPU TIM would breakdown/wear out over time but your right. I wonder how these Intel CPUs will do 5-10 years out? Will they start to get hotter and hotter over time? One way to force someone to update.
     
    jbltecnicspro likes this.
  36. jbltecnicspro

    jbltecnicspro [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    5,416
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    It sure isn't going to be their IPC gains that convince anyone. :D
     
    Dayaks, tunatime and noko like this.
  37. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    7,211
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Stability is also affected by temperature. You can change nothing but fan speed and get your system stable. Higher temps = higher leakage. Same is true for only changing the TIM.

    Watercooling is also quieter and you move the heat out of your case which may help other components from throttling.

    And some do it for the funsies.
     
  38. brentsg

    brentsg [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,693
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    So I got fortunate and snagged an 8700K + Maximus X Hero from Newegg for about $611 shipped after Ebates cash. Really didn't plan to upgrade but here we are.

    I have the MB sitting here and the CPU arriving tomorrow. If I was going to delid, now is the time.. but naturally I'm anxious to fire it up. I've also never done it before.. so a bit uneasy about that.

    Is there enough benefit there?
     
    IdiotInCharge likes this.
  39. KillSwitx

    KillSwitx n00b

    Messages:
    19
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Don't know why, i was planing gettinga 4790K to replace my 4690K just for the sake of the opportunity and i would give the 4690K to my kid ... but right now i think i'm going with the 8600K ... or 8700K but i still use my i5 without any issues or need for the extra threads ... 6 physical cores seem a good upgrade ... :) let us see ...
     
  40. NoxTek

    NoxTek The Geek Redneck

    Messages:
    9,267
    Joined:
    May 27, 2002
    I think my delidding / relidding game is getting to be pretty on point, but thanks to watching the videos I ordered a 100 pack of those plastic razor blades and a few bottles of 99% Isopropyl Alcohol. About time I stop using the dollar store grade 78% stuff... :p