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Overbuilt Office PCs

B

BoxMaker

n00b
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
40
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
Web browsing, UPS shipment processing, manufacturing database front-end software, office suite stuff - a lot of windows open at once.
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
~$1200 with shipping and taxes included.
3) Where do you live?
Iowa
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
I need everything.
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
Replacing an old laptop so, no reused parts.
6) Will you be overclocking?
No overclocking. I can justify overbuilding these with quality parts if it means they won't die after a while for no apparent reason.
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
I need to talk to the user about preference on this one. We may have one.
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
This week?
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
I need RAID 1 in case of HDD crash. More than anything, it just needs to be reliable.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
I don't have an OS license yet.


These are the parts I was thinking about:
$170 - EVGA P55 LE 123-LF-E653-KR LGA1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
$200 - Intel Core i5-750
$140 - Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB (2 for RAID 1)
$86 - CORSAIR XMS3 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
$50 - CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX
$55 - EVGA 01G-P3-N945-LR GeForce 9400 GT
$90 - LIAN LI Lancool PC-K7B
$150 - Microsoft Windows Vista Business SP1 64-bit for System Builders w/ Tech Guarantee - OEM
$130 - LG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-ROM SATA Internal Combo LG Blu-ray Reader...
$30 - COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-GP

This is kind of a rush build for an amazing coworker who is slated for surgery at the end of the week. I'd love to get this computer in order before they leave. If this build goes well, then I'll get 5 more just like it.

When our company started, we simply purchased off the shelf boxes, but many of them have died. The idea is to have these replacement PCs rock solid even if a little overbuilt. There is also a good chance that these will all be rocking dual monitors (that's why I have the dual-head gamer card in there - for twin DVI LCDs).

If I have the coupon for Windows 7, and I get Win7 in the mail using the coupon, will I have to first install Vista and then Win 7? Just making sure.

I'm going to have to ask user about monitor preference. I'm guessing around 19" and again, something that is going to last in a somewhat harsh environment.
 
 
I guess I'm a bit of a Corsair fanboy, but I trust the community here and I'm all for saving a buck or two. I see the Ripjaws are 1333 vs 1600. I'm guessing my users won't see a performance difference between them and choosing the G.Skill over the Corsair is solely a cost saving measure?

The Intel Xeon X3440 processor suggestion is an interesting one. This will work in the EVGA P55 board? lt_shiro, you mentioned that it is a bit slower and it costs a bit more, but the HT will make this worth it over an i5? Users should see better performance in the Xeon vs. if I went with an i5?

Thanks, guys, for your help. I'm happy that the primary guts of this thing are looking pretty ok - no huge missteps.
 
Xeon's are enterprise class chips, so they're held to a higher standard during testing and therefore binned more modestly, since they're made to last longer in harsher environments.

You could save money with an Intel P55 board instead. Or you could also switch to a workstation/server board for supposedly better longevity/reliability/stability. Same idea with HDD's... switch to enterprise class drives if going RAID.

No, they wouldn't notice the difference between the different RAM speeds. However, I'd choose RAM with lower voltage for better compatibility, which tend to be slower speed (1.5v DDR3-1333). If the price difference between the brands is negligible, then go with what you like ($6 w/ a $1200 budget is, IMO, negligible).

You might be able to get a better deal with pre-builts through a dell or hp rep, with NBD warranty and NA Pro support for 3+yrs. It wouldn't hurt to call them up and see what they can do, since you're purchasing 6. And if you're unhappy, you can return them all, lol. Though, I'd get cheaper systems and replace them more often. I'd avoid individual RAID1 systems and simply backup all data to a small RAID5/6 server, archive to tape, along with a common image for restoring if and when HDDs fail. Easier to manage that way, assuming all of these systems are for the same company.
 
enginurd said:
You might be able to get a better with pre-builts through a dell or hp rep, with nbd warranty and pro support na for 3+yrs. It wouldn't hurt to call them up and see what they can do, since you're purchasing 6. And if you're unhappy, you can return them all, lol. Though, I'd get cheaper systems and replace them more often. I'd avoid individual RAID1 systems and simply backup all data to a small server, archive to tape, along with a common image for restoring if and when HDDs fail. Easier to manage that way, assuming all of these systems are for the same company.
Click to expand...

I agree eleventy-seven million percent with what has been said here, but also realize its likely gonna get ignored :(

BoxMaker said:
I guess I'm a bit of a Corsair fanboy, but I trust the community here and I'm all for saving a buck or two. I see the Ripjaws are 1333 vs 1600. I'm guessing my users won't see a performance difference between them and choosing the G.Skill over the Corsair is solely a cost saving measure?

The Intel Xeon X3440 processor suggestion is an interesting one. This will work in the EVGA P55 board? lt_shiro, you mentioned that it is a bit slower and it costs a bit more, but the HT will make this worth it over an i5? Users should see better performance in the Xeon vs. if I went with an i5?

Thanks, guys, for your help. I'm happy that the primary guts of this thing are looking pretty ok - no huge missteps.
Click to expand...

this is overbuilt beyond logic
you aren't just buying stability, at this point you're just buying eCock, and its a pointless waste of money

ditch the gaming parts, and build something more respectable in an office environment, if these people really need a ton of windows open at once, consider Quadro NVS, if not just having multiple 8600GT's (I suggest 8600GT because its like $29.99 or $39.99, at least it was last time I looked) to drive 4 to 8 monitors per system, you'll notice that I'm leaning on nVidia, because nView is worth it


other stuff thats total crap for an office:
do you need blu-ray? are you even buying AACS decoding media applications for these boxes, if not, ditch that crap
do you need fancy pants Lian-Li cases?
Core i5/i7 - entirely not worth the hundreds of dollars of investment, Phenom II X4 or Core 2 Quad (or maybe, god forbid, a dual core solution) will be just fine, save you quite a bit of money, and you can still have DDR3
having consumer grade hardware in a managed environment -> read and re-read enginurd's post until it sinks in
 
We already backup to tape and an image is taken of every machine. Please, let me know if the following logic is flawed. Having a workstation available is of huge importance, more important than speed. When I am looking at these workstations, I'm asking myself if there is anything I can do to minimize downtime. Even just 30 minutes of being without a computer on a Monday is a HUGE deal for our work flow. It seems like hard drive failure is more likely to take a workstation out than any other problem. If I can spend ~$55 more for a 2nd HDD, and have RAID 1, it means a hard drive can fail and the user can keep rocking through the workday and I can swap it out after hours without an interruption. I don't consider RAID 1 to be a backup. Backup tapes are taken off-site every evening. If my logic isn't on the level here, please let me know. Is there a reason to avoid RAID 1 in these systems other than saving the cost of a hard drive?

You are right about the Blue Ray drives. Dumb.

I would love to buy cheaper and replace more often, but it's tough to justify in light of, "Didn't we just buy new workstations a couple of years ago?!"

Does it make sense to pay for two video cards at around $30 per card vs. one $55 card with two DVI heads? What are the advantages?

Please explain to me what 'respectable for an office environment' means? Just cheaper? I confess that I have been operating from the assumption that gamer gear was created to be a bit more abused than typical office hardware and would therefore hold up a bit better under normal conditions. I see now, that this thinking may be flawed. Again, my priority is to have systems that are 'up'. I understand that it doesn't take long to image a system and restore a user's documents - but that downtime is a big deal in our office. No one cares about my eCock, including me. I feel like we were burned going with IBM/Lenovo PCs when we started our company as most have them have overheated turning their silver heat sinks a pretty gold color. If rolling my own satisfies my priority (uninterrupted usability) but costs a bit more, that is justifiable. I'm thankful for you guys helping me to figure out just how I might do this.

$70 - Western Digital RE3 WD3202ABYS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache perhaps this (x 2) if RAID 1 is of any benefit to this build. WD says this is 'enterprise'

I will definitely call up our supplier on Monday and see what we can do for 6 systems. It may, however, be valuable to land on a DIY workstation for comparison purposes - so I press on with picking your brains with this build.

What would be a 'respectable' motherboard to pair with the enterprise/workstation Xeon processor?

Man, I appreciate all of your help - esp. on a Saturday.
 
Gamer gear is consumer grade, five years, tops. What youneed to be looking for is an industrial pc, not gaming gear.

Supermicro is golden, if you still want to buy individual parts still ( motherboard).
 
It sounds like your looking for server class workstations. Nothing wrong with that at all. I would start first of all at your motherboards. Look for the best chipset you can afford. Supermicro/Tyan/Asus is a great place to start. Secondly I would be looking at Xeon's also for this case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.272157
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134936
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320 as many as you need. I dont see your raid idea being bad.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133274
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151187
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116673 Included 32bit as I have no idea what apps you have and what their compatibility issues may or may not be.


This should be a stone reliable system, and the case and PSU will allow you some room down the road for an upgrade.
 
buying 775 socket system is a waste of money at current End of Life state. That board and CPU combination don't come anywhere near to level of performance, you will get from Lynnfield Xeon CPU.
 
You think so? Most office systems do their job for around 3-4 years at least, and it's very unlikely in that same amount of time that anything Lynnfield based won't be supplanted by a better system. I can't see the point of planning a like socket upgrade on an office machine that isn't an actual server. By the time this machine is ready to be replaced there will be a better system to buy into than Lynnfield. In the mean time save the money, and get some tried and true parts that are known reliable. Of course anyone is free to do what they want, but if reliability was my main goal I would be inclined to get something with a track record. Of course if they have some app that needs the horsepower, then there are superior products that way. I was simply trying for known reliable hardware due to the OP's desire for maximum uptime.
 
Reliability is the primary goal, but I'm up for grabbing as much gusto as I can, as long as that priority objective of reliability is met. So, going with the Xeon processor is intriguing. I'm still interested in what others consider to be the best mobo to go with something like that considering my application and objectives.

So, the Quadro card is going to be more reliable than a typical gaming card? It's nearly three times as much money so I would hope so. When I was reading up on professional workstation cards that could give Adobe's CS4 suite a boost, I read a lot of stuff about how the PNY cards really weren't worth the money considering a comparable performance gain via GPU could be had using a card that was achievable for a video card that was five times less money in some cases. So, I am skeptical and a bit confused. Is a workstation card really going to hold up better than a card with 'Awesomator' in the name, or would I simply be the victim of good marketing?

I see that enginurd has helped a TON of people with their builds and this line has me scratching my head in a way that is similar to what I was just talking about in the previous paragraph: Or you could also switch to a workstation/server board for supposedly better longevity/reliability/stability. I'm coming to you all because I'm not a computer engineer or anything and there is just so much BS / bias / good marketing out there that it is hard to wade through it. Are server-type boards more stable or no?

Those of you who have posted have got me looking into ECC RAM vs. RAM that is not. The ECC sticks are quite a bit more money. Anyone with a strong expert opinion about that?

That Antec case is a sharp looking case. Thanks for posting that.
 
so go with Core 2/Core i7/Phenom II/Opteron/Xeon, whatever you want, as long as it doesn't overheat, the difference in "how long will this last" is a few years, but assume they all start at something like 10 yrs to begin with (the MTBF is basically so high its not even worth the time to state), DDR3 or DDR2, either way, performance won't be an issue, but just consider future upgrades (parts will be available for a long time, given that we can still buy SDRAM and DDR1 new off the shelf)

graphics card wise, don't waste your time or money on it, the only reason Quadro FX is worth the money is the drivers, you aren't doing sim/viz or heavy DCC so forget it, a ~$30 GeForce will be fine, add another if you want more monitors

workstation/server boards are generally more stable, but a lot of premium boards are just as stable, I like Intel OEM boards, never had an issue, you don't get as many toys, but it doesn't look like a rocketship or reboot every 45 minutes, so thats always a plus

get the gaming hardware crap out of your thoughtprocess, what I mean is, don't buy something like the Ripjaw RAM, why do you need to pay for the G.Skill name or the custom heatsinks, its not worth it

forget ECC

I agree with your RAID1 idea, you can never be too sure on data backup, yeah it may cost more, but if you're willing to spend the money, no good arguement against it, just don't rely on RAID1 as your SOLE backup (in other words don't let these people use just their PC local copy as the only copy of the data)
 
Obviously my build was a pretty general idea for you to look over what a common Xeon based workstation build would be. Not knowing how many monitors you'll be running, and what exact apps you'll be using I tried to err on the safe side. The Quadro isn't needed clearly if your not going to needs it's abilities. If your going to run multiple monitors then most anything will work, though if I was buying consumer level stuff I would probably go with XFX,BFG etc for the warranty. At that point it would be up to you to find what you thought gave the best bang for the buck. I have my own personal preferences but it's your call here. Only you know what your true needs are.
The memory I picked was to meet board requirements, and I don't think it was much of a premium to pay to be honest. If you decide to run a server board, by all means use something off the approved parts list. Don't grab something cool, or on sale to save a few bucks. If they list a specific part grab it. Do not take a chance with some incompatibility/stability issue. Get something approved, and with a warranty. I chose Kingston for a reason.

I personally would still go with my build minus the GFX card change, but obviously you've got final say. ;) Good luck either way, and do keep us posted I am really interested in this build.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150322 Maybe something like this? For your GFX solution.Great warranty, great company.

I won't speak for enginurd, but my guess is he had you leaning that way for a couple of reasons. On a server/workstation board you will find a much bigger knowledge base of known issues, a better list of tested parts known to work well, and much better support options. The parts have at the least been tested better, and on a broader scale of applications/environments. You'll find a list of parts that are either certified to work with your board, and have a board that in theory has been more vigorously tested.
 
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i may be mistaken but im pretty sure raid 1 requires 2 HDDs at all times. if one drive fails, the array fails until you swap out the bad drive and rebuild. which uis why you buy 3 hdds for every raid 1 setup (spare to swap in).

i would avoid consumer systems. i would probably just go with HP or Dell SMB. usually 3 year warranties with on-site support if needed or overnight part replacement if not. in a missions critical environment, you always want a spare desktop anyway. just make sure it's 100% ready to be dropped in when theres a failure (ie all software installed and rdy to go) and then file for RMA with dell/HP.

im not against building business-class workstations, but unless theyre doing CAD/design work/other high-intensive computing, Dell/HP is the easiest route.
 
Somnambulator said:
i may be mistaken but im pretty sure raid 1 requires 2 HDDs at all times. if one drive fails, the array fails until you swap out the bad drive and rebuild. which uis why you buy 3 hdds for every raid 1 setup (spare to swap in).
Click to expand...

Not with RAID 1: any drive in the array has all the data and so can run by itself.

OP, I agree with what others have said: that system is overkill. I'd recomend going with a big name for these, but ifyou really want to build them yourself you can probably cut a few hundred off each one. Cut out the gaming parts and get quality stuff. The two are not always synonimous.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
obobski pretty much has you covered. It doesn't sound like you need much horsepower at all, just better reliability.

obobski said:
so go with Core 2/Core i7/Phenom II/Opteron/Xeon, whatever you want, as long as it doesn't overheat, the difference in "how long will this last" is a few years, but assume they all start at something like 10 yrs to begin with (the MTBF is basically so high its not even worth the time to state), DDR3 or DDR2, either way, performance won't be an issue, but just consider future upgrades (parts will be available for a long time, given that we can still buy SDRAM and DDR1 new off the shelf)

graphics card wise, don't waste your time or money on it, the only reason Quadro FX is worth the money is the drivers, you aren't doing sim/viz or heavy DCC so forget it, a ~$30 GeForce will be fine, add another if you want more monitors

workstation/server boards are generally more stable, but a lot of premium boards are just as stable, I like Intel OEM boards, never had an issue, you don't get as many toys, but it doesn't look like a rocketship or reboot every 45 minutes, so thats always a plus

get the gaming hardware crap out of your thoughtprocess, what I mean is, don't buy something like the Ripjaw RAM, why do you need to pay for the G.Skill name or the custom heatsinks, its not worth it

forget ECC

I agree with your RAID1 idea, you can never be too sure on data backup, yeah it may cost more, but if you're willing to spend the money, no good arguement against it, just don't rely on RAID1 as your SOLE backup (in other words don't let these people use just their PC local copy as the only copy of the data)
Click to expand...

If you're still going to build these yourself, stick with Corsair, Kingston, or Crucial, as they have much better support, IMO, than the other companies. Intel branded boards are pretty stable, as are the higher end boards from the top tier companies (Gigabyte/Asus) with all solid caps. For enterprise boards stick with SuperMicro, Asus, or Intel. Intel probably has the best support, though.

BoxMaker said:
... Even just 30 minutes of being without a computer on a Monday is a HUGE deal for our work flow. ...
Click to expand...

If that's the case, then yes, stick with RAID1. RAID simply minimizes downtime (except for level 0). Also, build or buy a few extra machines in case it isn't the HDD. :p

BoxMaker said:
... I feel like we were burned going with IBM/Lenovo PCs when we started our company as most have them have overheated turning their silver heat sinks a pretty gold color. ...
Click to expand...

I'd figure out why those systems overheated. If the environmental conditions are rather hot, then that is something to be concerned about. If it was poor design on IBM/Lenovo's part, then don't buy that model again, hehe. If you chose regular hardware instead of enterprise class hardware, then you've learned your lesson. ;) Don't forget to give Dell and HP a call to find out what they can do for you.
 
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BoxMaker said:
Those of you who have posted have got me looking into ECC RAM vs. RAM that is not. The ECC sticks are quite a bit more money.
Click to expand...

Unbuffered DDR2/DDR3 ECC sticks are hardly more expensive than non-ECC sticks; if your platform supports it and reliability is paramount, then I see no reason not to get ECC. Most home-grade equipment can't utilize ECC, however it's probably not worth losing sleep over unless you're working with mission critical data - in which case you're better off with server-grade hardware.
 
obobski said:
This is overbuilt beyond logic. You aren't just buying stability, at this point you're just buying eCock, and its a pointless waste of money.
Click to expand...
LOL. Count on obobski not to mince words. If I ever need someone to berate me mercilessly while building me a perfect machine, I know where to go. :D

I think the line of reasoning here is generally like this, "The real world doesn't need the stuff we like. Just give them some half-decent crap; they won't know the difference." While this is probably true, it doesn't take into account the satisfaction you get from building. I don't think it would be wise to go nuts with expensive high-end components that will hardly bat an eyelash at your workload, but yours sounds like a small, energetic company. You are not building 600 of these for 8 floors of bored, overworked employees. Honestly, it's 6 machines.

There are plenty of good recommendations here. Take your pick. If you want to pay a small premium for parts that you like, do it. Within reason, a little bit of fun/overkill in the office never hurt anyone.
 
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Having actually worked around Dell/HP/Compaq/Gateway prebuilts, I can honestly say if you are doing 6 machines, do it yourself. Go with what you like.
 
One thing I have noticed as my local friends and families "PC Guy" is that user error is one of the reasons a lot of them fail. Obviously, in your work environment you probably wont have people searching for pron or warez ( at least you hope not) so thats covered. Second, is ( and maybe this is just me, and it is very limited and maybe because I live in Florida) the power coming into the PC is also a huge machine killer. Also, I am always suprised at how many machines are coated with so much junk and dust internally I am suprised they boot at all. So, I have nothing to add really as far as the machines themselves that hasnt already been said, but just wanted to point out ( and you may very well already know this and have it covered) is to teach your users the right way to do things, make regular maintenance a part of your weekly/monthly tasks and allow some of your budget for some sort of line conditioning device/ protection. Good luck
 
Thank you again for all of the input. I went to the source, as it where, and checked out the Executive Series motherboards on Intel's website. The motherboards listed are LGA775 series boards. It seems, if I want to get something that is 'suitable for a business environment' I have to get something that is old and slow...like an executive I guess (sorry [H] Xecs).

I got to thinking about this, with the Xeon recommendation. When was the last time I had a processor fail on me? Cyrix. I don't overclock. But I can't justify spending a bit more on a 'business' processor in my own head when I've had a failure rate of zero with modern processors. It would be super neato if I could get X58 motherboards, but they are too much money to justify it and I fear doing so for fear of disparaging remarks about my erooster. What do you think, the P55 chipset is ok?

So, I'm thinking about going with this: Intel Desktop Board DP55KG. The skull on the box isn't very professional, but it seems the sentiments so far lean towards an Intel board that isn't painted like a rocket ship vs. an EVGA board that has sexy nifty rad overclocker fins and color schemes etc. I like EVGA's stuff. The company actually gets back to me when there is a problem. And I've built with Intel before and their stuff is solid as well.

As far as RAM, when our Lenovo systems here in the office experienced an addition of memory, I went with Corsair's value line or Kingston memory - whatever was cheaper. I'm sure there may be some off brand stuff out there that would work too - but what to use for the Intel motherboard above?

I have settled on a couple of these, WD RE3 320 hard drives though, for RAID 1. WD says the Caviar Blacks are a no-no for RAID. OK, I'll play.

I'm just going to get that EVGA card up there for the video card. It has two heads and more and more folks in the office have experienced the jubilation of multiple monitors, and I expect the trend will continue. Maybe we'll get some Eyefinity action going! Behold my inappropriate-for-an-office-environment eWEINER! I need something stable that won't have the bearings stop working after a little bit of dust. I don't' need a Ferrari, but a tank would be swell.

I'm a fan of 1/2 decent crap. I drive a 1/2 decent automobile. I wear 1/2 decent clothes. But I have AAA and if my real life girlfriend tells me I look goofy wearing black calf socks and sandals - I change into my Larry King zipper boots. If one of these PCs overheats again (like our off the shelf 'business workstations' have in the past, and I think I could have spent just $500 more and avoided the failure of some middle of the road stuff, then I'm going to be somewhat sad at that juncture. It seems the Ferrari's are as plentiful as the opinions when it comes to flashy hardware, but where are the clear choices for robustiality that are neither crazy expensive or a generation behind what the Ferrari types have? The asking of this question is what has led me to build.

Our office systems are all using XP, except for my own workstation. Do you think it is premature to install Windows 7 on these machines when I get them, or should we let it rip with the siete?

I was just informed that our first test user would like two 17 monitors, side by side like others have. A clear screen with a bezel that doesn't distract would be tops. Suggestions?

jay2472000, you are so right. I am the IT guy here, but I am tasked with other hats to wear too - we all are - because we are a small company. I wish I could create an SOP for gently blowing out the crud from their towers and using a paintbrush to archaeologically (I thought I made this word up, but it is a real word) clean out their keyboards and the nooks & crannies (alcoves) of their monitors. As it stands, this probably does fall within my job description. I don't mind doing it - but I am behind on SEO and marketing stuff and I'd rather be making us money than being computer janitor. I love my job so I'll do it!

SockMan!, our data is critical, sure - but we do backups to tapes on top of users backing up to their own little drives (we haven't taken the step towards a Mozy type of service yet) so I think while our data is critical, having a machine that is 'up' is more critical. We can deal with a sunspot scrambling some RAM once a year (or however this works), but as long as the user can reboot and return to normalcy, that is enough.

enginurd, thanks for all of your input. I now have permission to build a 'spare' machine (thanks to Somnambulator for this suggestion as well). I will keep the software up to date and ready to go in 'minuteman' fashion. I'm going to get the specs together for this DIY build, and then present it to the HPs and the Dell's of the world and ask, "What do you have that is like this?" I'll do this once I'm settled on the eDingDong systems. The 'workstations' have these HUGE hard drives and it seems dropping in another HDD for RAID 1 adds hundreds of dollars. My users will never need that much space but the redundancy would be nice.

Thanks again for all of your input. And yes, we will be going with the fancy Lian Li cases if we go with a build because I showed the boss what they look like and he thinks they're svelte. Of course, the other box I showed him was beige (kidding - can you still get those?)
 
Go P55, but don't look at gaming parts at all.

Gigabyte micro-atx 100$
750 from microcenter 150$
two spinpoint drives: 120$
8400GT or something similar: 50-80$
DVD RW 30$
Corsair 550W 60$
Go for the dual monitor if you want- 300$

50+30+60+120+150+100+300

710$

buy another one in 4-5 years when it's outdated using the same methods without needing to buy monitors

happy employees
 
The P55 chipset is ok. Just use the cheapest DDR3 RAM available from the three RAM companies that Enginurd mentioned for that Intel motherboard. Monitor wise, I would not recommend spending money on a 17" monitor considering that nowadays you can get 19" moniotrs for the same price.

OS wise, even though Windows 7 is a huge improvement over XP and Vista and is pretty stable and reliable out of the box, in a business environment, it's a bit premature to install Windows 7 IMO. Test out Windows 7 first on a spare PC and make absolutely sure that it is 100% compatible with the software and hardware setup you're using. In addition, make sure that the users are familiar with the UI first.
where are the clear choices for robustiality that are neither crazy expensive or a generation behind what the Ferrari types have?
Click to expand...

Choices in what? Video card? CPU? mobo? etc.
 
Wow... my eyes... after coding thousands of lines, they can't handle that much text, lol. Yes, I'm typing most of this with my eyes closed. :p ... and no, couldn't read it all, just skimmed, sorry.

Generation behind or late because they're tried and true. With Intel chipsets/mobos, the business parts (Q) typically lag behind the IGP parts (G), which typically lag the mainstream (P), which lags the enthusiast (X); mainly because robustness/reliability takes time to get right -- Intel is VERY thorough.

Heat and power fluctuations are leading killers of HDDs. So make sure each system has a capable UPS and I'd suggest sticking to single platter drives (less heat). If they don't need much space, there should be some single-sided-320GB-platter drives out by now (160GB total). If not, those 320GB RE drives are good.

The reason you don't want to use Caviar (consumer level) desktop drives in RAID is because of WD TLER (Google/Wikipedia that term; other companies have their own name for it). There's a WD TLER tool to change the TLER setting, but recently, people have reported that the tool no longer works.

Here's a comparison of the Intel boards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2E16813121387,N82E16813121386,N82E16813121385

If you don't need it, don't pay for it.
 
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We have 2 desktops in our shop that I built 7 years ago. They are dated and still run XP, but I have had zero issues. One is a Duron and the other a Sempron. These were economy systems when I built them. But for reliability they are off the charts. Not that I recommend you buy these. I'm just saying you don't have to spend a ton of money to get a reliable machine.
 
$99 - Intel BOXDP55WB motherboard
$64.99 - XFX HD-465X-ZDF2 Radeon HD 4650
$50 - CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W
$199.99 - Intel Core i5-750
$90.49 - Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$140 - Western Digital RE3 WD3202ABYS 320GB x 2 for RAID 1
$26 - LITE-ON Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X...
$150 - Windows 7 Pro OEM. I'll install XP Pro for now and then have this in the wings when things look like Windows 7 is ready for prime time in our offices.
$80 - LIAN LI Lancool PC-K7B swanky case
$50 - Microsoft 4GC-00002 Silver/Black 102 Normal Keys Wireless Ergonomic Laser Desktop 4000

~$950 total

This is what I'm up to as far as having a list of components and prices - something I can present to HP and Dell and ask, do you have something along these lines? At the same time, letting them know that uptime is my priority.

It concerns me that this Intel motherboard only appears to work with Kingston RAM. I know that compatibility isn't synonymous with quality, but it bugs me.

What do you guys think?
 
I'm seeing a lot of good things about the G.Skill memory, but the only memory that has been tested by Intel for use with this motherboard is Kingston. Newegg's comment section is filled with guys who were using something else and had problems, then changed to Kingston and were good to go.

The combo is a great deal!

The hard drive is tempting, but I've been encouraged in the forum to migrate towards 'enterprise' parts and that is why I have the two drives from WD that have been designed for RAID configurations. Man, it is confusing trying to navigate between what is truly 'business class' hardware, and what is 'business class' marketing.

Will I be OK with the 400 Corsair power supply vs the 450? It's too bad I cannot get rebates for every single unit - only 1 per household.

Speaking of power, does anyone have a UPS they would recommend getting for these boxes? Are they even necessary to protect the workstations?
 
BoxMaker said:
Will I be OK with the 400 Corsair power supply vs the 450? It's too bad I cannot get rebates for every single unit - only 1 per household.

Speaking of power, does anyone have a UPS they would recommend getting for these boxes? Are they even necessary to protect the workstations?
Click to expand...

Yes you'll be fine with the Corsair 400CX PSU.

I'd recommend a UPS just to be on the safe side. However I don't have any UPS recommendations at this time that fits the kind of system you're building.

However I will note that I'm happy so far with my APC BN1250LCD 1250 VA 750W UPS. I got it from Fry's for $86
 
Get a standard APC Back-UPS ES 650VA or 750VA. A UPS will help with the power fluctuations by either employing an AVR or by powering the system directly from the battery.

Go with Kingston or Corsair -- better support than G.Skill, IMO. Though, Intel has tested many different DRAM components with their platforms, not just Kingston. For that particular board, Kingston was the only manufacturer to request 3rd party testing by CMTL.

3rd party tested memory occurs as requested by the memory vendors and is tested at an independent memory house that is not a part of Intel - Computer Memory Test Labs (CMTL).
Click to expand...

Though its not a thorough list, you can use the RAMList to see which modules use which ICs, but its easier to stick with Kingston or Corsair. According to that list, Kingston uses a mix of Elpida, Micron, and Samsung (mostly Elpida on that list, though); Corsair uses a broader range in addition to those used by Kingston, including Qimonda (infineon), Hynix, ProMOS, Powerchip, and Nanya.
 
That is good news. I have a few TR3X6G1600C7 7-7-7-20 sticks. It would be outstanding if these could populate this board and work.
 
Oh, and I've sent my list of components to my CDW-type sales guy who has a bunch of HP sales liaisons from these PC manufacturers who actually take up office in the offices of
running around there. I gave him the skinny, preached about my priority, and we'll see what he learns and comes back with.
 
no one really suggested that dell/hp/etc would be more stable, only that they're cheap for decent systems, have absolutely excellent support (ive filed for RMA @ 8am and had an on-site tech replacing a laptop motherboard by 2pm), and will be very easy to setup. Dell/HP business test all their systems with common business apps and will even recommend specific drivers if they know the MFGs newest drivers dont work as well in a specific application. in the long run, the support they offer, both direct and indirect, and even for only a half dozen machines, is worth it over building your own.

i used to feel the exact same way as the OP, but after a few months of supporting many boxes, i quickly learned how Dell built an enterprise in less than decade.

some things to note:
some onboard video will output to dual displays

i know it was in jest, but EyeFinity is not useful outside of gaming. 3 screens in eyefinity inside windows for productivity is worse than 3 using default windows settings. the hardware support for 3 outputs from 1 HD5000 card is simply awesome, but the software doesnt apply or benefit anyone outside of a game. why would you want 1 giant ultra-widescreen display when working on some Office documents? that would be pointless. instead of 3 separate screens on which to put different apps, files, etc, you'd have 1 extremely wide display that spans 3 screens.

also, hd5000 series requires at least 1 displayport monitor or active DVI->Display port adapter to use the third screen.

Also, you can not compare standard Dell/HP/Lenovo purchases with SMB ones. they are like night and day. i think these companies actually care about their business customers.

building 6 PCs takes a nice chunk of change. ypu must have a really generous (or ignorant) boss or not have enough other work to do :D
 
Thank you to all who helped me and helped those I get to serve. I built a test system with the list above. I did burn-ins with Prime95, Intel's burn-in utility, and a couple of others. I did memtest and spinrite and everything seems jake. I did, however, forget speakers. I always forget speakers. I usually go for Logitech speakers that are under $20. If there is some shining star amidst the sea of simple speakers, please let me know.

So far, things seem to be working great and the price isn't too crazy compared to the quotes I got back from Dell and HP. Once I wanted to add that second hard drive for RAID 1, it put us in a different category. Same goes for a dual head video card. A gap exists between the typical office computer and the full-blown creative content workstation. I could see some great deals for the typical web browsing PC, but we wanted just a touch bit more for the office.

It's a good feeling to have quality stuff from reputable companies in computers that aren't workstation expensive but with some workstation perks. If this were 25 computers, I would not be building them myself. At a half dozen, however...my intern and I can do it between other stuff and I think, thanks to the help of you guys, it should be a successful little project. My build list changed significantly from first post to last, saving us money and providing a more stable solution. You've helped grease the wheels of capitalism without spending one red cent.

Thanks Again!
 
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