One Motherboard Maker Explains why AMD AM4 Boards are Missing

[dragonstongue]

This isn't surprising. They've been poor at supporting partners for as long as I've been into computers. Even ATI, before AMD bought them out, was poor at such things, mainly driver development and patching, for as long as they've been in the business. Back when the Athlon first came out, they said they didn't want to be in the chipset business, but then wouldn't give any assistance to companies (VIA and nVidia) trying to develop chipsets. They were, and is seems still are, horrible about partnering with anyone. They need someone to put their egos in check and get them to behave.

LOL even if you give Nvidia all the help in the world they still act like tools, NF200 chipset, solder bump issues generation after generation, using less than high quality component selection and using on even higher power required boards, under playing wattage/tdp numbers etc etc.

Funny, I had way old DX2 AMD variant, Athlon x2 5200 and 5600, now Phenom II 955, all using Asus boards, not a single one of which had/has any real issues in running things proper and very well. There are just as many folks I know that had issues using "amazing" Intel as supposed so many problems AMD or ATi products over as many years as I have been gaming, seems the "partners" were waiting till last minute to spec out and release things, we as the public knew approximate launch going back at least 1.5 years, AMD even postponed the launch a few months to clear the channel, pretty sure if they had very much waited till last minute NO ONE would have got any boards out, such was not the case, has there been some issues, yes, the same can be said about any new product, even more so with the ones that "break ground" on never before done things I suppose.

IMO with AMD it is more things and folks standing in their way then it is major problems of quality control type deal, sure they have driver issues and things take awhile to sort out, but the supposed "best in business" for add in board graphics "Nvidia" has had an astounding amount of porblems over the years, and the largest maker of chips "Intel" has had its fair share as well most especially as they dwarf the products pushed and released on an annual basis, in both cases, they tend to cheap out, making things thinner or cutting things away.

Anywho, IMO it growin pains type thing, could be the "makers" held back production to see how well they were going to sell first, now the see the pre-oder volume is bought as fast as they can produce, they are ramping things up big time to fill the pre-order and main line production as well as BIOS to fix things that either THEY or AMD did not immediately see faults when doing the QA.

 

[ManofGod]

He makes a good point that I've even made myself. That said, it isn't absolute. Intel's a large corporate entity. As a result, when they choose a course, changing that course can be an arduous and expensive task. Intel's been a financial giant compared to AMD but got caught with its pants down when K7 and K8 came along. Intel was already set on a course with it's Netburst Microarchitecture because at that time Intel had taken the P6 Microarchitecture as far as they could. Intel knew they were screwed and had to ride out that dismal product because going a different direction with its CPUs would require years of R&D and engineering to create a new processor design. Intel made a bet that it could push Netburst farther via raw clock speeds than AMD could push its performance via IPC and it was wrong. Intel course corrected and it took a few years before the Core 2 architecture was released but when it came out, it was amazing.

Intel has arguably been apathetic and lazy for some time now. It's CPUs are designed around a performance per watt mentality and holding a quad core 4 lyfe status quo. AMD is in a position to challenge that status quo and that's precisely what its doing. Intel needs some course correction. Ryzen will shake things up and its very likely that Intel will course correct with a vengeance as they have in the past.

You see though, putting it your way does not show dis respect towards others and their personal purchases. We could have a calm discussion and not put each other down. That individual I quoted was doing nothing in my opinion but attacking those who do not purchase Intel products. That said, that is why I put the smiles the way I did, I was just messing around.

These Ryzen chips are incredible, it is a shame that Mainboard manufacturers are simply focusing on Intel and pointing fingers. (That is the way I see it anyways, I could be wrong but that person the article quoted does not sound particularly objective.)

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Intel has arguably been apathetic and lazy for some time now. It's CPUs are designed around a performance per watt mentality and holding a quad core 4 lyfe status quo. AMD is in a position to challenge that status quo and that's precisely what its doing. Intel needs some course correction. Ryzen will shake things up and its very likely that Intel will course correct with a vengeance as they have in the past.

This exactly! At the very least, here's hoping that it will make Skylake-X prices more reasonable.

 

[Dan_D]

You see though, putting it your way does not show dis respect towards others and their personal purchases. We could have a calm discussion and not put each other down. That individual I quoted was doing nothing in my opinion but attacking those who do not purchase Intel products. That said, that is why I put the smiles the way I did, I was just messing around.

These Ryzen chips are incredible, it is a shame that Mainboard manufacturers are simply focusing on Intel and pointing fingers. (That is the way I see it anyways, I could be wrong but that person the article quoted does not sound particularly objective.)

Reviewers have interactions with motherboard manufacturers that you guys don't see. We end up with context that's not discussed with the readers, or even in the review articles due to NDA's etc. The reality of the situation is this: Intel was first with Kaby Lake and Z270. Its early in the product life cycle of that product. Ryzen following along shortly creates issues with motherboard manufacturer's capacity. AMD dropping the ball with late UEFI code and being difficult to work with doesn't help matters. AMD rushed things on the motherboard side on top of unfortunate timing. That's why we are in this situation with Ryzen motherboards. When reviewers don't get their samples until AFTER the launch you know shit went sideways on the back end.

 

[ManofGod]

Reviewers have interactions with motherboard manufacturers that you guys don't see. We end up with context that's not discussed with the readers, or even in the review articles due to NDA's etc. The reality of the situation is this: Intel was first with Kaby Lake and Z270. Its early in the product life cycle of that product. Ryzen following along shortly creates issues with motherboard manufacturer's capacity. AMD dropping the ball with late UEFI code and being difficult to work with doesn't help matters. AMD rushed things on the motherboard side on top of unfortunate timing. That's why we are in this situation with Ryzen motherboards. When reviewers don't get their samples until AFTER the launch you know shit went sideways on the back end.

Yet, Intel could have released their Z270 boards a lot sooner, if they had wanted too. Seems to me the release of their Z270 was timed to entirely disrupt the AMD launch since Kaby is nothing more than a slightly tuned and overclock Skylake.

Edit: Does not change your point, though. Just that the point I am making in addition to everything else should not be a surprise.

 

[ZeroBarrier]

You see though, putting it your way does not show dis respect towards others and their personal purchases. We could have a calm discussion and not put each other down. That individual I quoted was doing nothing in my opinion but attacking those who do not purchase Intel products. That said, that is why I put the smiles the way I did, I was just messing around.

These Ryzen chips are incredible, it is a shame that Mainboard manufacturers are simply focusing on Intel and pointing fingers. (That is the way I see it anyways, I could be wrong but that person the article quoted does not sound particularly objective.)

If you feel disrespected by a generalized comment on an Internet forum thread you need to put your ego back in your pants.

Also, we have already heard it was actually AMD who put themselves into the position they are in concerning board manufacturers.

This exactly! At the very least, here's hoping that it will make Skylake-X prices more reasonable.

This is what I'm expecting and hoping will happen, I'm certainly looking forward to it.

 

[Dan_D]

Yet, Intel could have released their Z270 boards a lot sooner, if they had wanted too. Seems to me the release of their Z270 was timed to entirely disrupt the AMD launch since Kaby is nothing more than a slightly tuned and overclock Skylake.

Edit: Does not change your point, though. Just that the point I am making in addition to everything else should not be a surprise.

I don't think I agree with that entirely. Intel probably could have rushed things and put out Z270 and Kaby Lake earlier, but in my opinion they did it perfectly. Motherboard designs and samples seemed to be ready a few weeks or so before launch, but that's not the same as having stock built, packed and ready for shipping. Z270 was one of the best launches with most motherboards feeling very mature and well tested. They could have cut that time down but I don't think it would have been wise. If Intel did anything in reaction to Ryzen it was to get Kaby Lake and Z270 on the market to make some initial sales before AMD's Ryzen release. I don't think they were trying to disrupt it in the way you are suggesting. Such intent would require Intel to have known exactly how far along those motherboards were in development and what AMD's release plans were for Ryzen. We knew about Kaby Lake's release back in late August. We knew Kaby Lake's official launch was 1/3/17. AMD didn't announce Ryzen until December 2016. The actual release date announcement for Ryzen didn't happen until February.It seems unlikely that Intel made any decisions revolving around Ryzen with regard to Kaby Lake's release.

 

[Master_shake_]

It's still a thing because that's the cheapest way to ship large quantities of goods across the ocean. Cargo ships can carry considerably more product than cargo planes can.

http://richardtorian.blogspot.com/2012/01/cost-per-ton-mile-for-four-shipping.html

Because air freight costs 46 times as much as water freight.

it's odd that shipping by air is still prohibitively expensive.

why is it?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

it's odd that shipping by air is still prohibitively expensive.

why is it?

Because making an object go fast requires more energy than making an object go slow.

Here are some rough calculations from web sources that look legit, if maybe not totally precise:

The Emma Maersk burns 1,660 gallons of diesel per hour and a 747 freighter uses 4,300 gallons of aviation fuel per hour. The flight from Shanghai to LA is 12 hours, so 51,600 gallons (roughly). The voyage from Shanghai to LA is 456 hours, so 757,000 gallons (roughly). The 747 freighter has a 134,000kg payload weight, while the Emma Maersk has a 139,706,450kg payload. That means the container ship burns 0.0055 gallons per kg freight, while the 747 freighter burns 0.39 gallons per kg freight. Also, aviation fuel is much more expensive than diesel, like twice as expensive. So from a fuel perspective, it's 140 times more expensive to fly a motherboard to the US than it is to ship a motherboard to the US. Obviously the ship was more expensive to build, it's more expensive to maintain, and so on, but still, these modern container ships are absolutely enormous. You don't get a sense of scale until you stand near one.

 

[Trimlock]

KL and Z270 was released probably at the perfect opportunity for Intel and nothing to do with AMD. KL was nothing more than increased (demanded) GPU support and a more robust platform to go with it.

 

[Dan_D]

KL and Z270 was released probably at the perfect opportunity for Intel and nothing to do with AMD. KL was nothing more than increased (demanded) GPU support and a more robust platform to go with it.

Going further than that, Kaby Lake is more compelling in mobile and server markets where performance per watt is more important. In that area Kaby Lake is a huge upgrade over even Skylake. On the desktop side, I think the refresh was there to simply get some extra sales. As an enthusiast part its a decent upgrade from previous CPUs, especially for hold outs who wanted clock speeds comparable to Sandy Bridge. Kaby Lake finally achieves this.

 

[Semantics]

Yet, Intel could have released their Z270 boards a lot sooner, if they had wanted too. Seems to me the release of their Z270 was timed to entirely disrupt the AMD launch since Kaby is nothing more than a slightly tuned and overclock Skylake.

Edit: Does not change your point, though. Just that the point I am making in addition to everything else should not be a surprise.

Well how much could they disrupt it given that AMD refused to give solid launch dates the whole time. It's almost sad that they didn't even give their partners solid launch dates to boot. AMD rushed the product to launch, likely to capitalize on the comparisons the company has been making to already old intel products.

 

[Trimlock]

Going further than that, Kaby Lake is more compelling in mobile and server markets where performance per watt is more important. In that area Kaby Lake is a huge upgrade over even Skylake. On the desktop side, I think the refresh was there to simply get some extra sales. As an enthusiast part its a decent upgrade from previous CPUs, especially for hold outs who wanted clock speeds comparable to Sandy Bridge. Kaby Lake finally achieves this.

To also side bar on this, most of us here are enthusiasts and ignore the lower end CPU's that released under the KL architecture. Having natural 4k support from a 10watt Celeron *cough* Atom *cough* processor is pretty awesome.

https://ark.intel.com/products/95594/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J3455-2M-Cache-up-to-2_3-GHz

 

[IdiotInCharge]

Going further than that, Kaby Lake is more compelling in mobile and server markets where performance per watt is more important. In that area Kaby Lake is a huge upgrade over even Skylake. On the desktop side, I think the refresh was there to simply get some extra sales. As an enthusiast part its a decent upgrade from previous CPUs, especially for hold outs who wanted clock speeds comparable to Sandy Bridge. Kaby Lake finally achieves this.

I have no qualms about keeping my 6700k versus upgrading to a 7700k, but I am for damn sure waiting for 7000-series CPUs for mobile.

(I have my eye on ASUS' Zenbook 3 Deluxe, which is supposed to be available in May)

 

[Dan_D]

To also side bar on this, most of us here are enthusiasts and ignore the lower end CPU's that released under the KL architecture. Having natural 4k support from a 10watt Celeron *cough* Atom *cough* processor is pretty awesome.

https://ark.intel.com/products/95594/Intel-Celeron-Processor-J3455-2M-Cache-up-to-2_3-GHz

This is a good point. I can list the top two or three processors every generation going back years. I can't tell you shit about any i3's out there. I rarely think about anything more than the top two or three CPUs in a given processor family.

 

[Trimlock]

This is a good point. I can list the top two or three processors every generation going back years. I can't tell you shit about any i3's out there. I rarely think about anything more than the top two or three CPUs in a given processor family.

Yup me either, I knew about the G3258 because it was an unlocked cheap CPU and now ... this one.

 

[gigaxtreme1]

[QUOTE="Insula Gilliganis, post: 1042871273, member: 154105"

[/QUOTE]
hope 2K ain't gettin' that stuff