Yet you do a super long quote spam post that amounts to "NUH UH OLEDS WILL BE THERE SOON AND RAWK I KNO ADN YUO DONT SO THERE". You have to be getting paid to say this stuff, nothing else makes sense.
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OLED Monitors
- Thread starter mike_j_johnson
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daveswantek
[H]ard|Gawd
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The British Army has demoed a working invisibility cloak FYI.
sooner or later we will have OLEDs, its just a matter of time as it is most advanced display technology humankind have to offer. And even if it take very long then there is always FED that is kinda amazing too. I think we will have both FED and OLED displays and FED will be cheaper and with obvious phosphor limitations but still good enough to begin new era of displays and force LCD and PDP out of market.
For the time being we have PDP in TV and cheap CRT for PC. It's actually not that bad of a deal as those helps heat home in winter time so we all can feel nice and cozy
Some people without taste can also buy LED-LCDs too
For the time being we have PDP in TV and cheap CRT for PC. It's actually not that bad of a deal as those helps heat home in winter time so we all can feel nice and cozy
Some people without taste can also buy LED-LCDs too jeremyshaw
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sooner or later we will have OLEDs, its just a matter of time as it is most advanced display technology humankind have to offer. And even if it take very long then there is always FED that is kinda amazing too. I think we will have both FED and OLED displays and FED will be cheaper and with obvious phosphor limitations but still good enough to begin new era of displays and force LCD and PDP out of market.
For the time being we have PDP in TV and cheap CRT for PC. It's actually not that bad of a deal as those helps heat home in winter time so we all can feel nice and cozy
You know what sucks? Hard and horrible? California has, more or less, very difficult to get plasmas of any decent size in California. I mean, the reason is because of "power use," like it matters, since current LCD isn't being light on power, anyways
Either way, still more power consumed than an equally sized DLP.Blackbeard Ben
Limp Gawd
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Really? When your argument fails you revert to personal insults without any basis whatsoever? Real mature.
Who started the "super long quote spam post" thing in the first place, anyway?
Oh wait, that was you.
All I'm saying is that they will come, eventually. When they're ready - and that they're getting closer every year, as evidenced by ever cheaper/larger mass production OLED displays and ever cheaper/larger professional OLED monitors. Is that so hard to grasp?
And the US Air Force (well, Bell Labs) demoed a working jetpack 50 years ago... Not saying that either won't ever enter mass production at some point and in some form, only that compared to a technology that is in millions of phones and cameras already they are so-called "pie-in-the-sky" technologies. Larger prototype OLED displays work as they will be intended to in mass production, for example, yet prototype jetpacks and invisibility cloaks don't.
I do think OLED will survive (unlike SED) because there are multiple players inching forward. I just disagree with the optimistic estimates, and our current status.
Cellphones screens really don't translate to big TV because they are done with shadow masks which are unfeasible on TV sized screens in volume production.
I think 5 years after they reach luxury good stage, they will be mainstream. But Luxury stage has not been reached yet. The Sony 11", and LG 15" are prototype/publicity stunt stage.
Lets just say LG is only 1 year late on it's latest promise and delivers 55" TV for $10000-$15000 in 2013. I consider that a luxury good. So 2018 for mainstream seems reasonable.
The OLED players were all talking about mainstream OLED TVs for 2014-2015 back in 2009, but considering where they are today, that is clearly out. IMO the every sliding date for mainstream OLED TV is now 2018+.
All of the above is more about TV/Video than computer monitors.
I would expect computer monitors to have even more delay, because computer monitors represent much harsher burn-in environment issues.
Bottom line is if you are dreaming about OLED computer monitors, dream on, you will probably go through 2 or more LCDs while you wait.
Megalomaniac
2[H]4U
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General consensus seems to be that OLED will be the next LCD, but it will take a while for the prices to go down. I remember a Mitsubishi plasma TV for 20k at Nobody Beats the Wiz (yeah, that many years ago). It took around 10 years for plasma TV prices to come down to mostly affordable (for the average consumer) levels. Even in 2005, plasma was still two to three times more expensive than LCD TVs.
That said, I think OLED has a leg up, since there are smaller OLED panel being manufactures for smart phones, so the cost is coming down faster. iPhones and top Android phones all have Super OLED screens. This will drive the bulk manufacturing of smaller screens, which will spill over into tablets and laptops, which will spill over into PC.
I think in 4-5 years at most, we will have an affordable OLED 24" screen.
That said, I think OLED has a leg up, since there are smaller OLED panel being manufactures for smart phones, so the cost is coming down faster. iPhones and top Android phones all have Super OLED screens. This will drive the bulk manufacturing of smaller screens, which will spill over into tablets and laptops, which will spill over into PC.
I think in 4-5 years at most, we will have an affordable OLED 24" screen.
You never rebutted anything I said. You just keep repeating the same old crap over and over, so yea I'm gonna insult you.
I mean look at this crap:
I've already pointed out how the manufacturer's lie about when they'll have OLED's ready and how much they'll cost. Repeatedly. For over 10 years now. And you still think crappy one off lab toys and product demos are evidence? Come on...you obviously ain't that stupid so the only other thing that makes sense is you get paid to say this crap.
Funky.fresh
Limp Gawd
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- 174
Can someone explain to me the major eye popping difference between LCD LED and OLED?
The major difference is supposed to be cost and thickness and maybe power usage. You're also supposed to be able to do stuff like have OLED clothes and such in theory.
Its very cool stuff but they can never get it to do what they say when they say for how much they say which is why I'm so cynical about it.
Its very cool stuff but they can never get it to do what they say when they say for how much they say which is why I'm so cynical about it.
Megalomaniac
2[H]4U
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quantum112
Limp Gawd
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The only thing that is even remotely foreseeable that could be better than OLED is QLED... I really don't think the industry is going to have anything better than that in the next 10 years.
Simple. LCD's picture quality is total crap that makes you want to vomit. OLED's picture quality is nearly perfect.
quantum112
Limp Gawd
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We'll also have to be careful during the second reincarnation of the "LED-Display" buzzword when they start trying to sell OLED-backlit LCD's under that name...
"Holy **** son, what'll they come up with next?!"
"Holy **** son, what'll they come up with next?!"
quantum112
Limp Gawd
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If we're to believe this comparison with FED displays, particularly the part where they say:
"Hold-Type Drive System
(PDP and Active Matrix LCD and Organic EL)
Exhibits visible image lag when tracing fast motion."
Then yes. Sucks.
Albeit if the refresh rates are up to 600 Hz then it probably won't be nearly as bad as LCD.
"Hold-Type Drive System
(PDP and Active Matrix LCD and Organic EL)
Exhibits visible image lag when tracing fast motion."
Then yes. Sucks.
Albeit if the refresh rates are up to 600 Hz then it probably won't be nearly as bad as LCD.
Sample and Hold doesn't bother most people (LCD has legitmate ghosting/smearing that has nothing to do with S&H) and if it gets manufactured into a big issue. OLED is very fast and can easily fake a scanning cycle of any desired rate. This is non issue.
OLEDs real issues are production costs for large sizes and burn-in.
OLEDs real issues are production costs for large sizes and burn-in.
jeremyshaw
[H]F Junkie
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Iphone uses IPS, Samsung and HTC have OLED/AMOLED/SuperAmoled/SuperAMoled+
HTC has dropped Super AMOLED in favor of Sony's Super LCD (which is ironically owned by Samsung), primarily because Samsung is the only major AMOLED panel supplier, and supplies are tight...
EDIT: and Super LCDs aren't anything special either. It's not like they are AFFS displays or something.
It's a cheaper version of a *VA display.drleospaceman
Gawd
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Individual black pixels are dead black, instead of some milky greyish-purple mess. Local dimming LED LCD's can sort of do this but you get inherent blooming and crushed shadow details because pixels are grouped into zones. With OLED you also get plasma-like (or better) viewing angles and pixel response time.
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We'll also have to be careful during the second reincarnation of the "LED-Display" buzzword when they start trying to sell OLED-backlit LCD's under that name...
"Holy **** son, what'll they come up with next?!"
LOL /facepalm you're unfortunately totally right... however thats still a good thing.
I could see producing white oleds for backlight use being 10x easier than a full color screen.
This may be the next step in LCD technology. The amount of dimming zones would increase by incredible amounts.
Ever heard of a premium LCD?
I don't claim to know cost and figures, but its still an improvement on LCD technology.
Considering how thin oleds can be, they could use really heavy dot pitch lower cost, white oled panels, and still probably increase the amount of dimming zones by 5x.
I don't claim to know cost and figures, but its still an improvement on LCD technology.
Considering how thin oleds can be, they could use really heavy dot pitch lower cost, white oled panels, and still probably increase the amount of dimming zones by 5x.
Ever hear of reality?
This would cost almost as much as doing a Full OLED with trivial advantage over current full array backlight local dimming.
If you actually look at what is going on, the direction is always about making it cheaper.
Current top of the line Samsung LCD with "micro-dimming" is actually edge lit with very few zones. Mainly BS for marketing and edge lit so they can build it cheap. Most people will never know the difference. Creating a $10000 LCD that is only marginally better just won't cut it.
Blackbeard Ben
Limp Gawd
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That's an outright lie. If sample and hold blur didn't bother people then there would be no push for 120Hz/240Hz interpolating and black frame insertion LCD TVs, or 120 Hz monitors (you get approximately the same response time blur at 60 Hz). Sample and hold blur is the primary cause of perceived blur on fast modern LCD screens now.
Now, sample and hold blur is not so relevant for film content that is shot with moving objects blurry and projected in theaters with frame doubling or tripling anyway (although 120 Hz does allow the elimination of judder). But for any content with sharp individual frames it matters:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006SPIE.6057..213F
And it gets manufactured into a big issue? Few people even know what sample and hold blur is to begin with...
A non issue for the average joe - certainly, a non issue for people like me looking for a very high quality and versatile display - no. I'm very sensitive to sample and hold and I don't believe for a second that I'm a special case.
Anyway, it was just curiosity, and like you I expect OLED to be fast enough to handle high refresh rates thus making this a non issue.
Blackbeard Ben
Limp Gawd
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Exactly. I believe that most people don't even realize what they're seeing is unnatural because they've never seen (or don't remember seeing) a high definition image panning on a display. A few minutes gaming on an FW900 versus an LCD makes the difference painfully clear.
I also agree that high refresh rates could make it mostly a non-issue - and perhaps if OLEDs get bright enough, backlight strobing can be used to reduce it further. Expecting 240 Hz refresh rates from content is unrealistic in the near future, but 120 Hz with backlight strobing (or something similar) is more likely.
Of course, that's all dependent on OLED brightness, and that won't be a help in direct sunlight (although I doubt critical image quality is anywhere near as important then).
On a side note, most LED lit LCDs already use higher frequency backlight strobing for brightness control - you can see it if you wave your hand quickly in front of a display at full brightness versus reduced brightness.
I said most people. I didn't say everyone.
This supposed big push for 120HZ/240HZ,BFI is a big push only from marketing departments, nearly everyone I know is pretty much completely happy with their LCD TVs and think that 240Hz/480Hz (what they usually call BFI) is nothing more than a gimmick.
How do you know you are that sensitive? Have you seen a S&H display with microsecond refresh times and found it so wanting??
Reality is, after all, essentially sample an hold. We don't have black frames inserted in real life. Does real life motion blurring bother you?
quantum112
Limp Gawd
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And why are we constantly talking about inserting black frames? What good does that do? How about you know, actually updating the displayed image as many times per second as the input refresh rate would dictate, like a CRT does?
CRTs fade to black before the next frame, so essentially they have BFI. So we get some people that see BFI as a necessity regardless of the technology which doesn't make much sense to me.
As I have said before. Reality doesn't have BFI. Maybe they walk around with Shutter glasses to have BFI of reality, so they won't have suffer real world S&H motion blur.
Holy crap that's why I want a high res monitor. Being able to fit a lot of stuff without multimonitors, or being able to fit a ridiculous amount of content with two of those 200ppi should be great for cad drawings, photos, whatever
200ppi should be great for cad drawings, photos, whateverYup, they suck and they'll never go anywhere. Just like this never went anywhere:
Plasma displays never went anywhere either - I mean, they only took 52 years to get this far:
And then another 10 years to mature to this:
And for that matter, 200 PPI, 3840x2400 monitors were in production 10 years ago but have yet to have go mainstream:
How do you know you are that sensitive? Have you seen a S&H display with microsecond refresh times and found it so wanting??
Reality is, after all, essentially sample an hold. We don't have black frames inserted in real life. Does real life motion blurring bother you?
How do I know? Well erm I dunno, maybe I've seen CRTs and LCDs side by side running at the same refresh rate? Maybe I've seen fast LCDs and I'm still not convinced?
How do I know? Well erm I dunno, maybe I've seen CRTs and LCDs side by side running at the same refresh rate? Maybe I've seen fast LCDs and I'm still not convinced?
No LCD has really fast response time. They say it is 2ms but that is best case on one best color transition. In reality some of the transistions still take 5 to 10 ms to occur.
This is nothing like a OLED that would change in microseconds. Until you actually see it and find it wanting you don't have much of a case.
And again, how do you handle motion blur in reality without black frame insertion?
In reality there is no frame quantisation and how often we can refresh image in our brain is dependent on how often our brain want it refreshed and if our eyes can keep upAnd again, how do you handle motion blur in reality without black frame insertion?
funny thing is that using CRT actually make brain refresh much more frequenly in reality so you see how eye work. LCD does opposite, it relaxes brain too much. Neither is good when you watch it too much. CRT can over-exercise eyes and LCD make them lazy as hell, can't tell which is worse...
No LCD has really fast response time. They say it is 2ms but that is best case on one best color transition. In reality some of the transistions still take 5 to 10 ms to occur.
This is nothing like a OLED that would change in microseconds. Until you actually see it and find it wanting you don't have much of a case.
And again, how do you handle motion blur in reality without black frame insertion?
Yes there are no "really fast" LCDs. But you're aware that changing the refresh rate on a LCD makes a big difference, right? 120hz is a huge improvement over 60hz (heck, even 75hz is) because of the sample&hold effect. And that's true even on panels with a slow response time.
In reality you don't see "frames" but rather a continous flow of information so speaking of sample&hold or black frame insertion is irrelevant, in fact it isn't a very good idea at all to compare display technologies and real life.