Official [H] Star Wars:The Old Republic Thread

RealityCrunch said:
Does ToR have separate PvE and PvP skill trees? Or does this nerf affect both PvE and PvP? Could get messy.
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Nope. You basically have your set skill tree and what's optimal for PvE and PvP aren't necessarily the same thing. So you end up having to respec to do one or the other. That being said, you can probably make due in PvE with whatever you choose for PvE as you can always out level most things in the game aside from the end game bosses. But since you can bring a friend to any mission, you can still get through anything you might need to one way or another.
 
Dan_D said:
They nerfed overpowered classes and you cancelled because of that?
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Obviously it's unfair that a class can no longer stealth up behind another class, knock them down, and 3 hit them before they have a chance to think about getting back up.

I'm always happy when someone quits an MMO after their class gets what's coming to it.
 
Trimlock said:
if "some people have lives" then don't expect to compete with the ones who "don't have lives".
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If the devs make the game a grindfest, people will just quit. It happens all too much.
khanable said:
Not at all. Do you know any probability theory? If anything it does nothing for the playing field, because people who play less do not have a higher chance of getting randomized gear. :confused:
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The irony in this statement is that if you knew anything about probability theory, you would realize that absolute randomness (big shock) gives everyone an equal chance to get the same gear. If you want to get more chances, that's up to you, but it's open to everyone, and every chance is the same. I realize you won't see this post, but this is also for everyone else who doesn't understand why the current system is good.
khanable said:
The current system rewards based on luck, instead of based on effort and skill. A much better system would be to level the playing field by removing randomness all together and instead have rewards based on effort/skill. Seeing someone run around in full battle masters gear should make people say "wow, he put in some serious time to get that", not "wow, he must have gotten seriously lucky, or seriously unlucky and dumped a massive amount of time and effort".
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How is ganking players in offsided battles on Ilum "skilled?" Some of you act like it's an effort to sit in your armchair and click. :rolleyes: If you want to show the world you live in SWTOR, do that by living in SWTOR.
Dan_D said:
They nerfed overpowered classes and you cancelled because of that?
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Probably because it was his overpowered class. Honestly, this "balancing is fine unless it affects me" attitude of some people is bogus.
Dan_D said:
Nope. You basically have your set skill tree and what's optimal for PvE and PvP aren't necessarily the same thing. So you end up having to respec to do one or the other. That being said, you can probably make due in PvE with whatever you choose for PvE as you can always out level most things in the game aside from the end game bosses. But since you can bring a friend to any mission, you can still get through anything you might need to one way or another.
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Well said. I haven't done much PvP, as I enjoy PvE much more, but do differences in builds really matter that much?

I play mostly a Jedi Sentinel and a Sith Warrior, and in either case, any "advantage" gained by some sweet gear or a perceived "perfect" build is instantly lost if you miss timing or get ganged up on. There's enough variability in combat that good playing can make up gear deficits. Unless of course you're dueling all the time, that's probably different.
 
xSystemFailurex said:
I've never in my life played an MMO where I couldn't say this about 1 or 2 bugs.

This includes WoW. (GASP, a Blizzard game)

My 2c.
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We are not talking about "1 or 2 bugs." We are talking about a showstopping, PvP and PvE breaking, fundamentally wrong combat system where animation takes priority over damage. That's not a bug--that's a feature. Especially when the factions have different animations for the same spell (Jedi are throwing rocks with force slower than Sith throw force lightning, even though the spells are supposed to be equivalent, from the same range with the same ping).

Bioware might call it a "bug" because they can't say "lol we let this game get out of beta when the most basic interaction in the game is borked." They say they are going to get around to changing it, but I'm not going to pay them to do so.
 
Mr. K6 said:
If the devs make the game a grindfest, people will just quit. It happens all too much.
The irony in this statement is that if you knew anything about probability theory, you would realize that absolute randomness (big shock) gives everyone an equal chance to get the same gear. If you want to get more chances, that's up to you, but it's open to everyone, and every chance is the same. I realize you won't see this post, but this is also for everyone else who doesn't understand why the current system is good.
How is ganking players in offsided battles on Ilum "skilled?" Some of you act like it's an effort to sit in your armchair and click. :rolleyes: If you want to show the world you live in SWTOR, do that by living in SWTOR.
Probably because it was his overpowered class. Honestly, this "balancing is fine unless it affects me" attitude of some people is bogus.
Well said. I haven't done much PvP, as I enjoy PvE much more, but do differences in builds really matter that much?

I play mostly a Jedi Sentinel and a Sith Warrior, and in either case, any "advantage" gained by some sweet gear or a perceived "perfect" build is instantly lost if you miss timing or get ganged up on. There's enough variability in combat that good playing can make up gear deficits. Unless of course you're dueling all the time, that's probably different.
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Most sense I've heard in this entire thread.

And yes, Ops were completely OP'ed. This coming from someone who has an Op alt.
 
Katalysis said:
We are not talking about "1 or 2 bugs." We are talking about a showstopping, PvP and PvE breaking, fundamentally wrong combat system where animation takes priority over damage. That's not a bug--that's a feature. Especially when the factions have different animations for the same spell (Jedi are throwing rocks with force slower than Sith throw force lightning, even though the spells are supposed to be equivalent, from the same range with the same ping).

Bioware might call it a "bug" because they can't say "lol we let this game get out of beta when the most basic interaction in the game is borked." They say they are going to get around to changing it, but I'm not going to pay them to do so.
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And yet so many of us are playing and enjoying the game. I don't know why you even bother posting. Nothing you say here is going to effect the game unless by some chance a dev reads these forums. You are not going to convince people who are enjoying it that they are wrong. Everyone gets it! You don't like the game and you are not going to stick around...so why are you here? all you do is repeat how much you hate the game...while still playing apparently. Very odd.
 
Skizzy said:
This thread is getting to be almost as bad as the TOR forums. /sigh
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That's why I have (for the most part) not read any forums or threads about this game post-release, I just take a peek in here like once a week. MMOs draw more vitriol than anything, it's just annoying to read after a wall.
 
Katalysis said:
This makes no sense. The ability delay is tied to the animation. When you press an instant cast in TOR, the damage does not appear until after the animation plays. When you press force wave, which is an instant, it takes two seconds until the enemy is thrown back. In other games, instant casts are immediately applied on target, with very short animations following the application. This is what makes PvP such a clusterfuck because chaining abilities is terribly difficult.

This should be the same on all pc hardware.
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It isnt which is why myself and many others never understood what it was you were seeing. If i hit an insta cast ability it fires when it should, no lag no delay. My Operative or Trooper hasnt encountered any lag or delay in their abilities either in pvp or pve.

Im glad they have identified it and are working to fix it because that would be frustrating.
 
Seelenlos said:
And yet so many of us are playing and enjoying the game. I don't know why you even bother posting. Nothing you say here is going to effect the game unless by some chance a dev reads these forums. You are not going to convince people who are enjoying it that they are wrong. Everyone gets it! You don't like the game and you are not going to stick around...so why are you here? all you do is repeat how much you hate the game...while still playing apparently. Very odd.
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He apparently hasnt got past level 10 yet but amazingly has encountered all these game breaking bugs.
 
Climber said:
He apparently hasnt got past level 10 yet but amazingly has encountered all these game breaking bugs.
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Haha yeah it seems like a few people who have posted here are like that. Well, they wasted their $60, sucks for them?

Anyway, i just rilled an assasin :)
 
xSystemFailurex said:
Obviously it's unfair that a class can no longer stealth up behind another class, knock them down, and 3 hit them before they have a chance to think about getting back up.

I'm always happy when someone quits an MMO after their class gets what's coming to it.
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I won't stick around playing a game that I don't like that much to begin with when they are making significant changes to the class I've played since release. I don't like the changes, so I cancelled rather than stick around and deal with the inevitable next round of nerfs.

And it will come. Good operatives will still be able to crush people. People will begin to NOT take jarring strike which will allow us to do the following:

Hidden Strike
Backstab
Root (this depends on the player. Might want to root after hidden strike for force users.)
Shiv
Debilitate (4s stun)
Lacerate
Lacerate
Backstab (Depending on cooldown, overload shot instead if necessary)
Flashbang (8s CC - breaks on dmg)
Heal
Heal
Lacerate
Lacerate

Obviously, that's in a perfect world, but that's generally how it's going to go. And good players will still be destroying people.
 
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Katalysis said:
We are not talking about "1 or 2 bugs." We are talking about a showstopping, PvP and PvE breaking, fundamentally wrong combat system where animation takes priority over damage. That's not a bug--that's a feature. Especially when the factions have different animations for the same spell (Jedi are throwing rocks with force slower than Sith throw force lightning, even though the spells are supposed to be equivalent, from the same range with the same ping).

Bioware might call it a "bug" because they can't say "lol we let this game get out of beta when the most basic interaction in the game is borked." They say they are going to get around to changing it, but I'm not going to pay them to do so.
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I don't think "showstopping" means what you think it means. If the bugs actually were "showstopping" then nobody would be able to play, let alone have a good time. There are small annoyances here and there, but they are far fewer than most MMOs at launch and they are getting fixed very quickly.
 
Maximus825 said:
I don't think "showstopping" means what you think it means. If the bugs actually were "showstopping" then nobody would be able to play, let alone have a good time. There are small annoyances here and there, but they are far fewer than most MMOs at launch and they are getting fixed very quickly.
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The only things I see getting fixed are PVP issues really. There are plenty of bugs that have been in since beta and still exist, some of which are "gamebreaking". The one where you holoterminal won't work during your class quest so you get stuck and can't continue for example. Several people in our guild are currently stuck on that and have had to abandon their mains for now due to it since the only CS reply is to "reset" or "relog", neither of which fixes the problem.

I got one of the best CS replies a while back, and I think it proves they don't really read the tickets but just send them through an automated system to spew out preset replies.

I sent in a ticket about an exploit that could be done between just when you die and get respawned (while the screen is blacked out). I get a reply telling me that a black screen could be the result of older drivers or choosing the wrong resolution for the game. They then tell me to follow the steps below to run the game at 1024x768 to see if that fixes the problem. Ummmmm.......:rolleyes:......and the exploit is still there.......

That reply was so far off base it might as well have been in a galaxy far far away.........oh wait, it was!! :p

I just wish they had kept the game in testing just a little longer. It has promise but for every thing in it I see that I like there's something I don't. Really hoping they do some wicked patching in the next month to smooth things out, and hire a good CS team to handle things. Bad CS will kill this game quicker than anything.
 
I just picked this game up a few days after christimas and got 2 characters a BH and warrior to around lvl 12 and quit playing cause i was moving. I have finally gotten internet and everything set back up. I'm just curious how the endgame is in this. Hoping to get some input from some level 50 people on here.

Is it worth the time sink to finish leveling or am I just gonna get to level cap and not have any groups to run with cause there is no LFD system like wow has?
 
cougarsoccer said:
I just picked this game up a few days after christimas and got 2 characters a BH and warrior to around lvl 12 and quit playing cause i was moving. I have finally gotten internet and everything set back up. I'm just curious how the endgame is in this. Hoping to get some input from some level 50 people on here.

Is it worth the time sink to finish leveling or am I just gonna get to level cap and not have any groups to run with cause there is no LFD system like wow has?
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The end game, from my perspective, is really only enjoyed if you're in a guild, or people to play it with. I've run 3 hardmode FP's, but no ops yet because we're still leveling the rest of the guild. I have, however, seen plenty of people using the chat feature at the Imperial Fleet to LFG for the hard modes, and I've even done a few of the hardmodes with pugs. So unless you're on one of these "dead servers" that some people are complaining about, you should be fine there.

Honestly? If you don't have friends or a guild to enjoy it with, the endgame right now is pretty lackluster. However, it's much to early to call it a failure, as they're adding new content a lot.
 
big_aug said:
And it will come. Good operatives will still be able to crush people.

Obviously, that's in a perfect world, but that's generally how it's going to go. And good players will still be destroying people.
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Good. That's how it is suppose to be...the problem was that even the horrible players that played as an operative were destroying good players of other classes...
 
I think too often people focus on balance 1 v 1 when it is supposed to be a group thing. Bounty hunters, for example, are terrible 1v1 because they have no interrupts, 1 stun, etc. But they are the best pvp healers and have great burst. If they excelled at 1v1, they would be god like.
Now, the operative deserved nerfs not because of the 1v1 strength. But besides being the best class 1v1, they have a ton of utility in group pvp that made them overpowered.
 
Wildace said:
i just got valor 60 last night on my marauder woot :)
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Congrats! That's a hell of a lot of effort, no matter how you put it. :cool:

Meanwhile I haven't broken Valor 1 on any of my toons, looks like I have a lot to go :D
 
I've got some serious mouse input lag, so much so that it is almost unplayable. It has gotten progressively worse. It wasn't bad until I hit the third planet Balmorra about a week ago. Now it just seems to get worse every day. I can't get the camera to turn anymore.

Rig in sig. Catalyst 11.10 drivers
I have turned down all the graphics settings and it still does it. Shadows low, grass and tree detail low. Tried setting "triple buffering" in AMD control panel, vsync off (in game and control panel), and changing the camera turn speed in the game's menu, nothing fixes it for any length of time. AMD menu settings are all "application settings." I don't have any special driver software for my mouse running. I am fairly certain it is a game engine and AMD graphics driver issue. What I can't figure out is why it played so well early on and is getting progressively worse. Sometimes the mouse clicks won't respond for 30 seconds.

My cpu and gpu aren't even maxed out and I'm easily getting 60+ fps, and the lag meter shows a perfect connection also.
Anyone got any ideas?
 
Just picked this up game yesterday, really liking it so far. I haven't been into an MMO in a long time, and I am enjoying the differences and new things it brought to the genre. Rocking on a Sith Marauder.
 
Dan_D said:
They nerfed overpowered classes and you cancelled because of that?
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Nerfing classes this early is a good sign the devs have weak knees and have no idea how to manage an mmo. We saw the same thing with Warhammer starting with bright wizards and it spiraled out of control from there. When a few comments were cried about on the forums, sure enough mythic nerfed them fairly quickly with little play testing. Blizzard has proven to be the only company that knows how to maintain a large scale mmo.
 
Wildace said:
pretty good, i never did get my champion chest piece from the random bags lol.
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Damn man. Well atleast now you can shoot for the Battlemaster stuff

I just ditched my Champion chest piece because I scored a Columi one tonight, loving it so far.

Hopefully you have better luck with loot bags moving forward :)
 
alienate said:
Nerfing classes this early is a good sign the devs have weak knees and have no idea how to manage an mmo. We saw the same thing with Warhammer starting with bright wizards and it spiraled out of control from there. When a few comments were cried about on the forums, sure enough mythic nerfed them fairly quickly with little play testing. Blizzard has proven to be the only company that knows how to maintain a large scale mmo.
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And you can tell this after the game has been out a month? Blizzard can maintain a large scale MMO because they've maintained a large scale MMO. I'm sure there were the very same incidents in WoW as well, and this game will grow too with the backing it has.

From what I've seen, so called "nerfs" they've done to the game have been well thought out. Nerfing slicing was needed to keep the economy under control. I still make a lot of money with it, but now you can't set up 8 alts and farm money nonstop (high end missions don't yield much net profit). They nerf a class because it's overly powered and no one else has a chance against it. If you can come up with a viable argument for why a class should be allowed to dominate PvP, and how that's fair, balanced, and most of all fun for everyone, go for it.
 
alienate said:
Nerfing classes this early is a good sign the devs have weak knees and have no idea how to manage an mmo. We saw the same thing with Warhammer starting with bright wizards and it spiraled out of control from there. When a few comments were cried about on the forums, sure enough mythic nerfed them fairly quickly with little play testing. Blizzard has proven to be the only company that knows how to maintain a large scale mmo.
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Lol...Blizzard nerfed classes just as fast...Patch 1.2.0 actually was released less than a month after the game "officially released" and people complained about nerfing then.

And if you actually want to get technical...they even actually "nerfed" classes before the game was even "officially" released with the 1.1 patch...

Stop coming in here and saying WoW was better at something...when it really wasn't...
 
alienate said:
Nerfing classes this early is a good sign the devs have weak knees and have no idea how to manage an mmo. We saw the same thing with Warhammer starting with bright wizards and it spiraled out of control from there. When a few comments were cried about on the forums, sure enough mythic nerfed them fairly quickly with little play testing. Blizzard has proven to be the only company that knows how to maintain a large scale mmo.
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All of the class adjustments implemented or commented on thus far have been very targeted.

Operative is overpowered in PvP because it's both a very good group utility class (due to healing) and can also effectively "one shot" opponents in 1v1 duels by using an ability that causes a knockdown (stun).

The nerf is... to halve the duration of the knockdown. Does not touch the ability of the class to crowd control, heal, or do damage, merely removes an easily exploited combination that gives the class the unique ability to kill an opponent with no chance of retaliation.

It's the sort of thing that should've been caught in testing, but inevitably with a bunch of people actually PvPing after launch, new abilities, combinations, or tactics that weren't playtested will pop up, and sometimes the right thing to do is a slight tweak.

It would've been much more catastrophic for game balance to buff every other class to deal with the knockdown KO than to shorten the knockdown.
 
alienate said:
Nerfing classes this early is a good sign the devs have weak knees and have no idea how to manage an mmo. We saw the same thing with Warhammer starting with bright wizards and it spiraled out of control from there. When a few comments were cried about on the forums, sure enough mythic nerfed them fairly quickly with little play testing. Blizzard has proven to be the only company that knows how to maintain a large scale mmo.
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Weak knees? Do you think nerfs and buffs are about forum whining and not their actual internal testing of things?
As for Blizzard, they nerfed and buffed classes right before release and right after as well.

If anything, this is a great thing because it prevents a situation where everyone rolls an operative to be overpowered and then only later get nerfed.
 
cougarsoccer said:
I just picked this game up a few days after christimas and got 2 characters a BH and warrior to around lvl 12 and quit playing cause i was moving. I have finally gotten internet and everything set back up. I'm just curious how the endgame is in this. Hoping to get some input from some level 50 people on here.

Is it worth the time sink to finish leveling or am I just gonna get to level cap and not have any groups to run with cause there is no LFD system like wow has?
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My guild just did our first Operation (raid) last week and had a fuckin blast!

We only spent 2-3 hours in Eternity Vault, but I loved some of those boss fights. The last boss was bugged, so we had to give up because some members had to leave.

Otherwise. Since we just start raiding, and we still have 2-3 more operation (raids) to even go into. I am so looking foward to this game.

We only did normal too, so we could see what we were up against, but I can tell you normal was a fucking joke. So hard might be a good challenge for some, and I am not sure I want to even attempt nightmare lol.

Either way great game bioware!!!!

My only complaint is we need a threat meter, and possibly a dual-spec option. I have been having to heal for our Operation....and I pvp as a dpser (650 expertise FTW)
 
DASHlT said:
My guild just did our first Operation (raid) last week and had a fuckin blast!

We only spent 2-3 hours in Eternity Vault, but I loved some of those boss fights. The last boss was bugged, so we had to give up because some members had to leave.

Otherwise. Since we just start raiding, and we still have 2-3 more operation (raids) to even go into. I am so looking foward to this game.

We only did normal too, so we could see what we were up against, but I can tell you normal was a fucking joke. So hard might be a good challenge for some, and I am not sure I want to even attempt nightmare lol.

Either way great game bioware!!!!

My only complaint is we need a threat meter, and possibly a dual-spec option. I have been having to heal for our Operation....and I pvp as a dpser (650 expertise FTW)
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We need dual spec bad. Rift had it in day one (course its mechanics necasitated it). I want a healing offspec lol
 
Yeah I can't wait till most of the hardforum guildies level up more to get to do some Operations...sounds like it should be pretty fun...
 
Just ran Karagga's Palace with the new bosses for the first time last night.

I think all in all this is a better raid than EV. If you haven't run it, it's a good time. Lots of cool mechanics.
 
Ran Eternity Vault last night. Mechanics are very very fun. Nice variety. Last boss (Soa) feels like a multi-phased WoW boss. Aside from the death bug, we had a blast. As a healer, I was challenged several times. DPS checks, healing checks, stand out of the die (ie not being dumb) checks.
 
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